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About this episode
Ever wondered what it’s like to grow up in a family of funeral directors? Join me as I chat with Kelly Scott, the General Manager of T.J. Scott and Son Funeral Directors in the Macedon Ranges.
Kelly shares her unique journey, insights on dealing with death, and the profound importance of family and community in the funeral industry.
Kelly Scott, a fourth-generation funeral director, takes us through the fascinating and often misunderstood world of funeral services. Kelly, who joined the family business over 30 years ago, shares her experiences growing up around the funeral home, how she and her family approach death with sensitivity and respect, and the evolving nature of funerals in modern times.
Growing up in a funeral home might seem unusual to many, but for Kelly, it was just part of life. She recounts her childhood experiences, from family dinners interrupted by the phone ringing to her initial misconceptions about her father’s work. Despite the ever-present nature of death in their lives, Kelly’s family maintained a clear boundary between work and home, respecting the privacy of those they served.
As Kelly delved into the funeral industry, she discovered her passion for helping families during their most difficult times. She talks about the importance of personalised funerals and how small touches, like playing a loved one's favourite music or involving families in the care of the deceased, can make a significant difference. Kelly’s dedication to her work is evident as she describes the joy she finds in supporting families and ensuring that every funeral is a meaningful and comforting experience.
Join us for an episode that sheds light on the compassionate side of funeral services and the dedicated professionals who make saying goodbye a little bit easier. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with someone who might benefit from these heartfelt insights.
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
![Podcast Guest - Image](https://criticalinfo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/TJSCOTT-115-scaled.jpg)
President of Australian Funeral Directors Association
Kelly Scott is the General Manager of T J Scott & Son Funeral Directors based in the Macedon Ranges, Victoria – it’s a family business, which was established by her great-grandfather Thomas John Scott in 1938. She works alongside her father John Scott, and brother Daniel and has joined the profession in 1990, over 30 years ago. Kelly is President of the Australian Funeral Directors Association.
Kelly with her father John Scott, and brother Daniel Scott.
Summary
Key points:
- Childhood in a Funeral Home:
- Kelly describes growing up in the only funeral home in Kyneton.
- Early misconceptions about her father's work and the privacy maintained by her family.
- Joining the Family Business:
- Kelly’s journey into the funeral industry, starting with administrative tasks.
- The natural progression from nursing to funeral directing.
- Personalising Funerals:
- The importance of making funerals personal and reflective of the deceased's life.
- Examples of unique touches, such as custom image-wrapped coffins and incorporating personal items.
- Professional Insights:
- Kelly’s role as the President of the Australian Funeral Directors Association.
- The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the funeral industry and advocating for essential service recognition.
Transcript
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Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see
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under your, your term as president of
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Kelly: AFDA?
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Oh, another great question.
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I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.
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So as my dad said, we alway ... Read More
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00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:06,810
Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see
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00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,939
under your, your term as president of
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00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:10,710
Kelly: AFDA?
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Oh, another great question.
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I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.
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So as my dad said, we always had that.
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idea that you never stop learning.
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And we've just introduced, the
AFDA has just introduced an online
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funeral learning hub because a lot
of our members are really remote.
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So to get to in person training is near
on impossible and very costly, you know,
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to get to major cities or regional cities.
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So this is an Australian first,
it's world class, um, that's in
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the UK and New Zealand as well.
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And it's only exclusively
available to our AFDA members.
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And it is.
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An incredible collection of
training and learning that we
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can do together as members.
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Catherine: Welcome to Don't Be
Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging
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open conversations about dying
and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to life.
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Because while you may not be ready
to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations.
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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.
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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging and extend
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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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Kelly Scott is the General Manager
of TJ Scott Son Funeral Directors
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based in the Macedon Ranges, Victoria.
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It's a family business which was
established by her great grandfather
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Thomas John Scott in 1938.
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She works alongside her father John Scott
and brother Daniel and has joined the
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profession in 1990 over 30 years ago.
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Kelly is president of the Australian
Funeral Directors Association.
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Thank you for joining us Kelly.
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Kelly: Thanks so much
for having me Catherine.
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Catherine: Now what was it like
growing up as a child with your family
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running the only funeral home in
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Kelly: It's funny, it's just
what you know, isn't it?
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It's like anything else.
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But it's something that was
all around us all the time.
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So family functions and lunches
at my grandparents house, the
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phone would ring, everyone would
be quiet, we'd answer a call.
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So it was always around us,
we were very conscious of it.
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Yet at the same time, funnily
enough, it was never forced on us.
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It was not one of those things that
we were kept, oh, you're going to join
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the family business, you know, you and
your brother or anything like that.
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It was, in fact, it was
almost the other way.
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We had to show interest in it later
in life to sort of show dad that we
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were interested in coming along board.
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So that was really interesting, but
it's interesting growing up knowing you,
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Your dad does something quite important.
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You can see that it's important, but you
don't really understand what is involved.
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In fact, I probably thought he was
like what I thought was an air traffic
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controller out in front of the plane.
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I remember seeing him walking
in front of a hearse once.
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I thought, Oh, that's what he does.
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He walks in front of a hearse
and tells it where to go.
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So that was when I was very little.
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So it is funny how you have
those misconceptions and, you
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know, don't really understand.
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So he didn't really bring work home.
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with him.
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It wasn't something talked about.
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The sanctity of people's
privacy was paramount, my
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grandparents instilled that in us.
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So it's not something that was discussed
at home openly because that would be,
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you know, it stopped protecting people's
privacy, but it was very much all around.
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We were very aware that at any
time Dad could be called out and
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need to go and help a family.
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Catherine: So there's just
yourself and your brother, Daniel.
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Kelly: That's right.
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Catherine: And you say that you,
it wasn't discussed at home.
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The work wasn't discussed at home.
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Was death discussed at home and
planning for your own sort of death?
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Kelly: Absolutely.
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So those sorts of conversations, you'd
hear about cemeteries and cremations and
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coffins and at my grandparents house,
they used to have the home office there.
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So families would come to my grandparents
home and they would meet with my granddad
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or my dad, and there was a coffin.
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display room in my grandparents
house in one of the bedrooms.
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So we used to run past for all the time.
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And again, we weren't allowed in
because my grandfather was very
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respectful of, you know, all that.
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So there's no, you know, shenanigans,
but it was very much a part of that.
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So, and my, my grandparents were
very open about things like wills
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and who was getting what, because
they saw families in crisis and
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fighting over those little things.
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So everyone knew.
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Where my grandparents were
going to be buried and what the
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funeral was going to be like.
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And those sorts of conversations
were very, very open in our family.
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So, which was really different.
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So I don't know what that's like
not to have those conversations.
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Catherine: No, I'm, I'm similar.
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My father was a, a clerk of
courts in the coroner's court.
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So I, I grew up just always expecting
that you had a will at the age of 18.
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And, and so like, I didn't know any
different until I met my husband and,
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uh, and that was totally different.
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So tell me at what point in time
did you go, okay, I think I need
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to prove to dad that I'd like to
be involved in the family business.
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Kelly: I don't know exactly
what age I expressed that
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interest, but it was quite early.
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I used to go where our building is now,
when we first bought this, it was an
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old Baptist church here in Kyneton,
and we did it up a little bit to start
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with, it's been fully renovated since.
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And I remember coming here after school
and cleaning, you know, just, you know,
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organizing the kitchen and making sure
his desk was tidy, very fascinated.
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And it was probably because
There weren't any women that I
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knew of in the funeral industry.
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Now I say that, of course, understanding
that my grandmother was very much involved
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in our family business behind the scenes,
but as a person at the front arranging
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funerals, you know, conducting funerals,
that, that was certainly wasn't my nana.
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So I think it was almost a bit of a,
well, I don't think I can, so I will,
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you know, and I was very interested in,
in doing something that that I didn't
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think was something that was possible.
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A lot of our women in
our family are nurses.
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So to me, that, that segue is
quite a natural segue from nursing
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to fetal directing in many ways.
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Uh, first and foremost is
the care of the deceased.
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That's the most important thing we do.
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Forget all the other bells and whistles.
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It's looking after someone
who has died for a family and
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being entrusted with care.
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With that care is the most important
thing we do and it's something that's been
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instilled in me since I first started.
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So I expressed an interest to dad and
he said, you know, go off and do your,
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there's no room for you here yet.
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And there was literally just my dad and
my uncle working at that time together,
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you know, and my grandparents still had
the phone, well into their eighties.
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And then I went, so I started nursing
and one day dad rang me and said, you
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always said you'd like to do this.
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I need someone there.
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So it's okay if you don't want to, but
before I put it out there, would you
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be interested in coming to work for me?
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And I left uni for Friday
and started work Monday.
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So it was an easy decision
and one I've never regretted.
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Catherine: And how old were
you when you were at uni?
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Kelly: 18.
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Yeah, first year of uni.
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Yeah, I was living in Melbourne and,
and, uh, yeah, it was just, I don't know.
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I just knew that that was what I
wanted to do and I've never, never
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regretted it, I must say, even
though I still love a hospital.
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Isn't that funny?
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I do . I love, I love nursing.
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I love that whole deal idea of it.
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But what I get to do that most
of the nurses I know can't get.
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Do it this time, because
I don't have time.
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You spend time with the patients.
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Whereas here, being a family business,
if I need to spend all day with the
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family, I can spend all day with them.
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You know, there's no time limits.
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And that's what I love
about the work that we do.
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Catherine: Oh, that's really beautiful.
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I hadn't Thought about it like that,
the fact that you actually do get to
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take care of your clients for as long
as you want to, where yeah, very much
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people, healthcare workers don't, are
very time poor in relation to that.
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Kelly: Oh, they don't have the time.
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It's not their fault because I think
that's the best part of what they do.
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And they, You know, as I said, the nurses
I know complain about the fact they
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don't have that one on one time with
the patients as much as they used to.
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And so I think, Oh, I really would miss
that because that's what I, when I first
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did my nursing placements, I used to
love, especially being with older people,
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cause I was very close to grandparents.
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I could sit there and
talk to them for hours.
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And to me, that's an
integral part of partner.
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Understanding what they need
in a hospitable environment.
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Catherine: And tell me, what were
your first tasks that you were
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brought in to, to help dad with?
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Kelly: Was certainly,
probably more administrative.
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It probably wasn't his strong suit.
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He's very much a people
person and out and about.
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So, very much, uh, Answering the phones,
doing accounts, that sort of thing.
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And he really, now that I look
back, he really eased me into it.
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I think he probably protected me
early on from some of the more, um,
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confronting situations that might
have, well, gosh, this isn't for me.
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And he, but at the same time,
there was dad and uncle and myself.
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So you're thrown into it.
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You have to be able to learn
to do everything because
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there's only three of us.
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doing that.
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So it is a little bit of a baptism
of fire in a small, very small
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family business, but it's great to
learn everything from the ground up.
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And even with our staff now.
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I would say when they come in, everyone
cleans the toilets, everyone washes the
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hearses, everyone vacuums the floors,
and that's including me, and I've been
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doing this 34 years, but we have to,
all of that's part of caring for a
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family, making sure that everything's
ready for a family to come in to say
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goodbye to a loved one, so it was
really good having that really hard
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grounding, and he certainly, you know,
made sure we knew how to do everything.
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Yeah, along the way.
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Catherine: Was there anything
in particular that your dad
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00:10:12,675 --> 00:10:18,454
really wanted for you to take on
board, uh, about the business?
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I know that I've spoken to another
funeral director down in, in Gippsland
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in sale and, and he was saying that
his mum was really particular about him
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learning exactly what you were saying,
how to, you know, wash the hearse,
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how to vacuum, clean the toilets.
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You know, really be involved in it, uh,
always to, to be super clean and, and
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tidy and make everything very presentable.
200
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What was, there's something your
dad might've been particular about?
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Kelly: Neatness to my dad is very
important and as is important in the back
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00:10:53,914 --> 00:10:55,374
of house as it is the front of house.
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So we've always had that idea that
if families want to come and help
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care for a loved one they can.
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So our premises need to
be just as beautiful.
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We're at the back of the house, as people
would refer to it, but we're a mortuary,
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as I said, where the most important thing
happens is the care of a deceased person.
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So if families want to come in and
be part of that care, we need to
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have that presentable all the time.
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So vehicles are, you know,
always beautifully clean.
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So it's very much about having a
really presentable place for people
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to come and feel comfortable.
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And that feeling of comfort.
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resounded.
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So making sure people have time with you.
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That was, he said, never
rush an arrangement.
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So that was really,
really important for him.
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And I think that's why even now
he still works at 75, mainly as a
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celebrant for families because he
knows so many people and people know
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him and feel comfortable with him.
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So I think those two things were always
Just take your time with the family,
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get to know them if we don't already.
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And of course, a lot of the times we
do, but really spend that time with them
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and make sure they feel as comfortable
as possible in a really uncomfortable
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environment, like in place in your life.
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It's really, you know, it
can be really traumatic.
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It can be really sad.
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So when people come in, you want them
to feel As comfortable as possible.
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Catherine: And what are the things
or the qualities that you find in
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the service that, that you deliver
that you believe are the most
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important things for when dealing with
families and organizing a funeral?
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00:12:31,574 --> 00:12:34,924
Kelly: I think some of those things
do come with experience and we'll
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talk about the benefit of having
an association behind you because
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if you don't know something, I've
got a plethora of people around the
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country I can ask, which is amazing.
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And I've done that many, many times.
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But I think what, what I offer,
what, what our family offers.
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is I think genuine care.
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We're really here to help make it
a positive experience, even when
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it's the most awful experience
you ever have to go through.
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When the funeral experience itself
is positive, and by that I mean a
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family feels autonomous, they feel
in control of their decisions.
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Sometimes that's saying to them,
just wait, don't make that decision
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just yet, because you can tell
They're not quite ready to.
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Guiding them through, you know, it's,
it's funny, I think about what we call
246
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as feudal directors, I think, gee,
we're not really directing anything.
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We're just supporting, guiding
where necessary, you know, offering
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choices, that sort of thing.
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So I think just having that gentle
guidance, teasing out information,
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When sometimes that's really difficult,
sometimes families come to you and they
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can't even speak let alone make decisions.
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So, you know, gently asking
them a few questions.
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Say, well, what did dad enjoy doing?
254
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How did he spend his time?
255
00:13:49,890 --> 00:13:51,979
What did he like doing with
his, you know, his hands?
256
00:13:51,989 --> 00:13:53,400
Was he crafty?
257
00:13:53,419 --> 00:13:55,519
Did he like to go camping?
258
00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:57,469
You know, did mum like to sew?
259
00:13:57,469 --> 00:13:58,779
Did she listen to music?
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And then from that, those conversations
are the most important Where was mum born?
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Where did dad go to school?
262
00:14:07,339 --> 00:14:11,879
Those things are obviously necessary,
but to me just finding a little bit about
263
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:17,199
who we're looking after helps everything,
even when there's no funeral service.
264
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We need to know who we're looking after.
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We give that information to
whoever's going to be caring for
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00:14:23,025 --> 00:14:24,165
their loved one in the mortuary.
267
00:14:24,165 --> 00:14:28,265
Say, Oh, I heard Beryl
loved to sing jazz music.
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00:14:28,265 --> 00:14:31,805
So we might play jazz music in the
mortuary while we're completing that care.
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00:14:32,074 --> 00:14:36,005
So to me, those little touch
points that some people will
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never ever be aware that we do.
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But I think that's, that's our point
of difference because we know it
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in ourselves, that's what we do.
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Catherine: That's lovely to think
that, uh, there'll be, you know,
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jazz music being played, uh, when
someone's being taken care of, uh, you
275
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know, I, I really love that, that it
has a very nice imagery in my mind.
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00:14:57,455 --> 00:15:02,335
And you mentioned earlier that you
ensure that the back of house is
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just as tidy as the front of house.
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00:15:04,645 --> 00:15:08,405
In case someone wants to care for
their, their, their loved one.
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00:15:08,795 --> 00:15:11,575
Was that referring to
in the, in the mortuary?
280
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Kelly: Yeah, so whilst we have to
protect the privacy of other people
281
00:15:15,184 --> 00:15:18,545
in our care, so sometimes that care
we might bring the person out to our
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00:15:18,814 --> 00:15:22,894
chapel area, have that really nice
and intimate for a family to come in
283
00:15:23,275 --> 00:15:25,385
and help complete care, so washing.
284
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,579
Dressing, hair, makeup, shaving.
285
00:15:28,829 --> 00:15:32,560
You know, families want to be part
of that care, they absolutely can.
286
00:15:32,579 --> 00:15:35,579
Because we always say, we're
looking after them for you.
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00:15:35,630 --> 00:15:39,269
So you let us know as much or
as little as you want us to do.
288
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:44,089
We go into quite, quite detailed
conversations about, well, you
289
00:15:44,089 --> 00:15:47,715
know, I mean, Ups, many of us
ladies are very particular about
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00:15:47,715 --> 00:15:49,785
our little chin hair that pokes up.
291
00:15:49,785 --> 00:15:53,335
So we might, you know, we're moving
facial hair, little things like that.
292
00:15:53,545 --> 00:15:54,625
Do you want to paint our nails?
293
00:15:54,885 --> 00:15:56,275
Touch up a bit of color on their hair.
294
00:15:56,275 --> 00:15:57,885
And they're like, do you
go to that much trouble?
295
00:15:57,885 --> 00:16:01,265
I said, if this was important
to them, absolutely we do.
296
00:16:01,354 --> 00:16:03,835
Because, and then some of them
go, Oh no, they didn't wear it.
297
00:16:03,884 --> 00:16:08,144
They were very low key, you know,
just a lovely, just lovely and clean.
298
00:16:08,144 --> 00:16:08,704
That's fine.
299
00:16:08,704 --> 00:16:11,344
So it's, it's lovely to
have those conversations.
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00:16:11,344 --> 00:16:12,634
So they know that that care.
301
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:14,780
That's how we look at that care.
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00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:19,969
It's so important and keeping with what
that person did during their life, because
303
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:24,060
to me it's still part of their loved one's
lives to know that that's being done.
304
00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:27,454
So, those conversations
are really important.
305
00:16:27,555 --> 00:16:30,375
I think over time we've
got better at that.
306
00:16:30,415 --> 00:16:35,015
I think when I first started, people
didn't, maybe weren't curious,
307
00:16:35,335 --> 00:16:37,335
um, didn't ask the questions.
308
00:16:37,335 --> 00:16:40,014
And now we know sometimes you just
have to lead into them a little bit
309
00:16:40,015 --> 00:16:42,204
and then opens up that conversation.
310
00:16:42,205 --> 00:16:45,055
So, again, just, just like what
you're doing with the website,
311
00:16:45,055 --> 00:16:48,165
Catherine, it's just opening up
the conversations and, and letting
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00:16:48,165 --> 00:16:49,355
people know that they can ask more.
313
00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:52,900
Whatever they want, you know, there's
no such thing as a silly question.
314
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:55,610
Catherine: Exactly.
315
00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:56,300
Exactly.
316
00:16:56,620 --> 00:17:01,289
And have you noticed that people over
time, as you said, you know, 30 years
317
00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:07,270
ago, it would be very different to, you
know, the things that you notice now.
318
00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:11,529
Have you noticed that people
are actively seeking to be more
319
00:17:11,529 --> 00:17:15,189
involved or more personalized in
their service as time's gone on?
320
00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:19,900
Kelly: I think the important thing we
always have to remember is Everyone is
321
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:24,430
different, so that level of participation
is very different for every family, and
322
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,250
within each family, it's very different.
323
00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:30,120
So some families will be wondering,
Oh, we definitely don't want a viewing.
324
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,650
And then you can sort of see maybe the
brothers over you going, Oh, I'm not,
325
00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:36,249
I'm not saying no to that just yet.
326
00:17:36,849 --> 00:17:41,040
So it's really trying to tease out
what people are comfortable with.
327
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:44,310
I mean, you know, looking at
the research that we did through
328
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:48,430
MacRindle, I think about 50
percent of people die in hospital.
329
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,859
So that care is there.
330
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:54,610
out of our hands a lot of the time before
they, before people even come to us.
331
00:17:54,629 --> 00:17:59,249
Whereas even when I started that those
statistics weren't so high, people were
332
00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:05,189
still at home a lot longer and would
have died at home more than they do now.
333
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:09,360
So that care's a little bit different,
but knowing You know, having those
334
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,750
conversations with family to say, you
can still have a loved one at home.
335
00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:14,360
That's perfectly okay.
336
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:19,170
But be mindful of these changes
that happens after a person dies.
337
00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:23,379
Just be made aware of the biological
changes that would happen within us
338
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,580
that are completely natural and normal.
339
00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:28,389
And if we can assist with
that, that's, you know, okay.
340
00:18:28,449 --> 00:18:33,330
Or bringing them into our care, just slow
that, that process down a little bit.
341
00:18:33,985 --> 00:18:37,524
To allow for people to come and see
them, you know, a few days later.
342
00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:40,975
So, understanding that
process is really important.
343
00:18:41,004 --> 00:18:43,084
You know, just say, oh yeah,
your loved one can be home.
344
00:18:43,435 --> 00:18:47,104
But not having that understanding that
that means maybe a viewing might not
345
00:18:47,104 --> 00:18:48,925
be possible on day seven or eight.
346
00:18:50,084 --> 00:18:53,020
Because, you There's no
refrigeration or other means that,
347
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:54,850
um, just slows that process down.
348
00:18:54,850 --> 00:18:58,540
So understanding what a family needs
from the get go is really important.
349
00:18:58,540 --> 00:19:01,930
And having those conversations around,
do you want to be part of their care?
350
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:03,130
Sometimes it's not.
351
00:19:04,229 --> 00:19:08,789
And again, some children
wouldn't necessarily want
352
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:10,000
to bathe their own parents.
353
00:19:10,009 --> 00:19:11,439
That's something that wouldn't be done.
354
00:19:11,439 --> 00:19:14,160
And the parent themselves would
not be comfortable with that.
355
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,550
Some people are very open to that.
356
00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:19,739
So my aunties looked after my
nan because they're very kind.
357
00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:23,140
you know, in nursing and that was
very much part of their family.
358
00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:24,540
So we've always done that.
359
00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:27,400
But for some families that
wouldn't be appropriate.
360
00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:31,069
So they're very happy for us to
do it, but they like the fact
361
00:19:31,069 --> 00:19:32,479
that we talk to them about it.
362
00:19:32,489 --> 00:19:35,619
So they know, and they're
saying yes to this, no to that.
363
00:19:35,689 --> 00:19:37,009
Yes, mum would have liked that.
364
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:38,299
No, she wouldn't have liked that.
365
00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:43,020
So they're more involved in that care
rather than just We don't discuss it,
366
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,450
just provide clothing and that's it.
367
00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:50,590
So I think them understanding that, you
know, everyone in our care is prepared
368
00:19:50,849 --> 00:19:52,250
as if you are coming in for a viewing.
369
00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:55,370
That's been done since my
grandfather was in the business.
370
00:19:56,115 --> 00:20:00,004
He started, so that's always
been very an important thing
371
00:20:00,015 --> 00:20:01,335
that we discuss with families.
372
00:20:02,855 --> 00:20:06,324
Catherine: And I know there was
such diversity even with my own
373
00:20:06,325 --> 00:20:08,885
family, so I totally appreciate that.
374
00:20:09,165 --> 00:20:13,425
And for me personally, I know that
it's depended on my relationship
375
00:20:13,434 --> 00:20:17,789
with my loved one who's died as well,
whether it's someone that I, I've lost.
376
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,580
I do want to actually have
a viewing of, or I, I don't.
377
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:26,389
So, uh, yeah, I can imagine that
there is a lot of, a lot of diversity
378
00:20:26,399 --> 00:20:30,760
in, in that process of, of working
out what family wants to do.
379
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:36,040
Now, Kelly, you're the second woman to
be elected national president of the
380
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:38,090
Australian Funeral Directors Association.
381
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:39,920
Tell me how that came about.
382
00:20:41,149 --> 00:20:44,129
Kelly: Our family business has
always been a member of the AFDA
383
00:20:44,479 --> 00:20:46,320
and it's just something that.
384
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:52,060
I've grown up with, Dad's always talked
about the importance of being part
385
00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:53,500
of something bigger than ourselves.
386
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,620
And I think that's for a lot of reasons,
he's certainly always instilled in us the
387
00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:04,199
need to give back to the industry and to
each other and to the community at large.
388
00:21:04,199 --> 00:21:07,560
So a lot of the time that work is,
you know, we're ambassadors for
389
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,970
grieving families in lots of ways.
390
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:12,360
Sometimes we're the ones saying,
this is what grieving families need,
391
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:13,384
or this is what they don't need.
392
00:21:13,705 --> 00:21:14,065
don't need.
393
00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:18,845
So being part of an association that
can have some influence, particularly
394
00:21:18,845 --> 00:21:21,044
with government, is really important.
395
00:21:21,054 --> 00:21:26,135
So, you know, having that ability
to lobby government for important
396
00:21:26,145 --> 00:21:28,605
things is good as a collective.
397
00:21:29,304 --> 00:21:34,284
But to me, being part of an association
like the AFDA, which is the largest in
398
00:21:34,504 --> 00:21:39,245
Australia, and we're in every state and
territory, means I've got A wealth of
399
00:21:39,245 --> 00:21:44,165
information at a phone call that I can,
and I've done this many times as dad has,
400
00:21:44,495 --> 00:21:47,054
we learn from each other all the time.
401
00:21:47,105 --> 00:21:51,215
And you'll be at a meeting or some
function and someone will talk
402
00:21:51,265 --> 00:21:55,155
about it and go, Oh, and then two
months later, that person had the
403
00:21:55,155 --> 00:21:56,975
same situation or something similar.
404
00:21:57,165 --> 00:21:59,814
I'm just going to give them
a ring and just ask them what
405
00:21:59,814 --> 00:22:01,074
they did in that situation.
406
00:22:01,074 --> 00:22:05,865
Because as much as people think funerals
are a traditional industry and I
407
00:22:05,905 --> 00:22:08,815
don't know, it's, we've heard the term
cookie cutter and everything, I think,
408
00:22:08,825 --> 00:22:12,385
goodness me, they don't work in it if
I say that, because it's certainly not.
409
00:22:12,845 --> 00:22:13,755
It's so different.
410
00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:16,145
And there's, you know, we
love those curly questions.
411
00:22:16,145 --> 00:22:18,605
We think, oh, okay, haven't
heard that one before.
412
00:22:18,605 --> 00:22:19,994
So what do we do?
413
00:22:20,035 --> 00:22:22,034
And not just thinking we know everything.
414
00:22:22,374 --> 00:22:25,854
And I remember my dad saying,
years and years ago, the minute
415
00:22:25,855 --> 00:22:30,004
you think you know everything, Move
on, get out, because you never know
416
00:22:30,004 --> 00:22:33,145
everything, because every family that
we deal with teaches us something.
417
00:22:33,364 --> 00:22:35,024
And that's the beauty
of what we do, I think.
418
00:22:35,365 --> 00:22:38,825
So association's been really
important to our family business,
419
00:22:39,135 --> 00:22:42,885
and to us as individuals, as a
wonderful support for our business.
420
00:22:43,354 --> 00:22:49,154
But I think, I think personally, as
much as anything else as well, a lot
421
00:22:49,154 --> 00:22:50,754
of people would never understand.
422
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:54,120
The responsibility you bear
doing this sort of work.
423
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:59,750
And there's so much involved that
you could never speak about to other
424
00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:03,880
people because that would be a breach
of privacy or something like there's
425
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,480
lots of things I don't even take home
to mind because you're protecting the
426
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,564
privacy of the people you're looking
after, but sometimes to be able to.
427
00:23:10,735 --> 00:23:12,685
Unload a little bit to people who get it.
428
00:23:13,305 --> 00:23:15,505
Sometimes you don't have to
say, you just go, Oh, I had this
429
00:23:15,505 --> 00:23:20,034
situation and it was a funeral for,
you know, a nine month old baby.
430
00:23:20,164 --> 00:23:22,105
And you don't, they just know.
431
00:23:22,505 --> 00:23:23,365
They just know.
432
00:23:23,514 --> 00:23:27,714
And to have that support, I'm telling
you, that's why I think I'm doing
433
00:23:27,714 --> 00:23:29,254
what I'm doing 34 years later.
434
00:23:29,335 --> 00:23:33,194
Because I've had this from the
very earliest time of my life.
435
00:23:33,525 --> 00:23:36,995
career with dad, he introduced
me to people so he would, I would
436
00:23:36,995 --> 00:23:38,685
develop my own network of support.
437
00:23:39,225 --> 00:23:41,425
And we do that all the time.
438
00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:45,215
And it's, it's quite powerful,
I think, and just the learning
439
00:23:45,215 --> 00:23:47,295
from each other is amazing.
440
00:23:49,245 --> 00:23:53,785
Catherine: And when, How did
it come about that you, were
441
00:23:53,785 --> 00:23:55,415
you nominated for president?
442
00:23:55,995 --> 00:23:58,965
How does that process happen
within the association?
443
00:24:00,085 --> 00:24:02,625
Kelly: We have divisional
councils as well.
444
00:24:02,635 --> 00:24:04,635
So each state and territory
have their own division.
445
00:24:04,655 --> 00:24:08,475
So where you could be an active member
and go to all the education training
446
00:24:08,475 --> 00:24:09,975
sessions, functions, et cetera.
447
00:24:10,465 --> 00:24:15,094
Then you might nominate for council just
to sit around your divisional council.
448
00:24:15,095 --> 00:24:15,945
That's how I started.
449
00:24:15,945 --> 00:24:17,004
Dan had always done that.
450
00:24:17,014 --> 00:24:19,985
So it felt like a natural
progression for me.
451
00:24:20,114 --> 00:24:24,295
And again, that's, You're taking
time out of your business for the
452
00:24:24,465 --> 00:24:27,005
wider industry and for other members.
453
00:24:27,375 --> 00:24:28,745
So that seemed like a natural progression.
454
00:24:28,745 --> 00:24:33,485
So you just get nominated to council
and we have in Victoria, it's divided
455
00:24:33,485 --> 00:24:37,075
up so you have a really good cross
section of regional, rural and metro
456
00:24:37,345 --> 00:24:40,425
members, both large and small businesses.
457
00:24:40,435 --> 00:24:44,574
So you have a really good cross
section and from that council, they
458
00:24:44,665 --> 00:24:46,634
nominate an executive on that council.
459
00:24:46,655 --> 00:24:48,034
So you have a divisional precedent.
460
00:24:48,499 --> 00:24:50,489
The senior vice president, et cetera.
461
00:24:51,209 --> 00:24:55,149
And so then you'll do things, and so I've
served in that role as well as Victorian
462
00:24:55,149 --> 00:24:59,800
president, which I absolutely love because
to me, that's the divisional councils.
463
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:01,479
That's the whole face things.
464
00:25:01,489 --> 00:25:04,849
That's meeting with BDM and the
coroner's court and the department
465
00:25:04,849 --> 00:25:09,249
of health and really making sure they
understand, you know, what we need to
466
00:25:09,270 --> 00:25:11,959
do and how we need to support families.
467
00:25:11,999 --> 00:25:13,884
So that's all those sort
of really key things.
468
00:25:14,235 --> 00:25:16,754
everyday things that affect
our business every day.
469
00:25:17,245 --> 00:25:21,375
And then from your divisional council,
you can get nominated to national council.
470
00:25:21,375 --> 00:25:24,405
So again, that's representatives
from every state and territory,
471
00:25:24,775 --> 00:25:27,895
both large and small businesses,
both metro and regional members.
472
00:25:27,905 --> 00:25:33,085
So that's a council of 15 people
from around the country, and you get
473
00:25:33,085 --> 00:25:34,805
nominated to go onto that council.
474
00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:36,165
So I'm representing Victoria.
475
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:38,770
I'm not representing T.
476
00:25:38,770 --> 00:25:38,949
J.
477
00:25:38,949 --> 00:25:40,100
Scott and Sunday Our Business.
478
00:25:40,650 --> 00:25:42,630
I'm representing our Victorian members.
479
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:46,420
And you really have to make sure you're
wearing the right hat because I'm not
480
00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:48,520
there for the benefit of my business.
481
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,610
I'm there for the benefit
of all of our membership.
482
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:55,795
So, then, once you're on National Council,
I was lucky enough to be nominated to go
483
00:25:55,795 --> 00:25:57,455
on to the executive and, and here I am.
484
00:25:59,025 --> 00:26:00,085
And when were you,
485
00:26:00,105 --> 00:26:02,175
Catherine: when were you elected
to the role of president?
486
00:26:03,065 --> 00:26:04,205
Kelly: Uh, just over a year ago.
487
00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,085
So I'm halfway through my two year term.
488
00:26:07,145 --> 00:26:07,975
Catherine: Fantastic.
489
00:26:08,465 --> 00:26:14,265
And tell me just on that process of
being elected and just to give me an idea
490
00:26:14,265 --> 00:26:17,494
of the, the makeup of the association.
491
00:26:17,884 --> 00:26:22,364
So is it predominantly male, female mix?
492
00:26:22,614 --> 00:26:23,954
What, what sort of?
493
00:26:24,644 --> 00:26:29,154
Kelly: It's a good, again, I've come
from a very traditionally male dominated
494
00:26:29,154 --> 00:26:33,445
industry, and I think someone was
talking about a later study, I think it
495
00:26:33,445 --> 00:26:38,254
might have been in New Zealand, to say
majority of staff in funeral businesses
496
00:26:38,274 --> 00:26:41,834
now are female, and we're certainly
seeing that even at management level.
497
00:26:42,689 --> 00:26:44,040
And at ownership level.
498
00:26:44,050 --> 00:26:46,340
So around the council, it's a good mix.
499
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,850
Um, but yeah, not that long
ago it was, it was all men.
500
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,839
So it's great to see that diversity at
the moment and national council executive.
501
00:26:55,139 --> 00:26:56,800
Um, there are three women.
502
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,479
So the next two presidents
after me are female.
503
00:27:00,179 --> 00:27:01,139
So it's.
504
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:02,540
Yeah, it's great to see.
505
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,700
Yeah, but you know, I'm it's all
about equality and having that
506
00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:10,369
great balance is my way of thinking.
507
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,840
Catherine: And do you, what sort of
qualities do you think that you bring as?
508
00:27:17,629 --> 00:27:23,480
I suppose a woman and also someone
from a regional funeral home, uh,
509
00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:25,510
to the role at a national level.
510
00:27:27,699 --> 00:27:29,719
Kelly: That's a great question,
Catherine, because I think everyone
511
00:27:29,719 --> 00:27:32,169
has their pros and cons probably.
512
00:27:32,189 --> 00:27:35,699
And probably what I, I lack in business
acumen, I always call myself a funeral
513
00:27:35,699 --> 00:27:40,650
director first as much as we're running
a business here, probably one thing I
514
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:42,659
offer is that I'm still at the coalface.
515
00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:44,350
I'm still arranging funerals.
516
00:27:44,794 --> 00:27:49,354
I'm still cleaning hearses, you know,
so I know what it's like for, for staff.
517
00:27:49,504 --> 00:27:53,254
I know what it's like to run a business,
to be responsible for staff, to make
518
00:27:53,254 --> 00:27:57,404
sure our business is sustainable, that we
can employ them next week and that we're
519
00:27:57,404 --> 00:27:58,864
here for our families and our community.
520
00:27:58,864 --> 00:28:01,235
So, you know, you've got
all different levels.
521
00:28:01,725 --> 00:28:07,715
And I think just having Probably
years of experience, but also an
522
00:28:07,715 --> 00:28:10,185
incredible support from my family.
523
00:28:10,285 --> 00:28:15,065
And it started with my dad, who never,
ever made me feel like, Oh, it's going
524
00:28:15,065 --> 00:28:16,365
to be harder for you because you're fair.
525
00:28:16,395 --> 00:28:19,995
It was like, this is what you're doing
off you go, you know, and, and he's been a
526
00:28:19,995 --> 00:28:22,345
great support where, you know, very lucky.
527
00:28:22,555 --> 00:28:25,065
I'm sure not everyone has this at
a family business and I belong to
528
00:28:25,065 --> 00:28:26,485
family business Australia as well.
529
00:28:26,495 --> 00:28:29,975
So I know this doesn't always happen,
but I've got a dad who always says,
530
00:28:29,975 --> 00:28:32,554
you know, You know, I'll come with
him with an idea that, yeah, great.
531
00:28:32,555 --> 00:28:33,115
Yeah, go with it.
532
00:28:33,265 --> 00:28:34,935
You know, fantastic.
533
00:28:34,975 --> 00:28:35,585
That was easy.
534
00:28:35,585 --> 00:28:40,104
So, you know, he's really supportive,
really encouraging, loves to see both
535
00:28:40,104 --> 00:28:44,775
my brother and I, you know, going in,
you know, keeping the business going
536
00:28:45,195 --> 00:28:48,084
and, and contributing to AFDA as well.
537
00:28:48,135 --> 00:28:50,655
So he loves to see that, um, involvement.
538
00:28:50,665 --> 00:28:51,425
He really thinks.
539
00:28:51,925 --> 00:28:53,685
It's bigger than, it's bigger than us.
540
00:28:55,544 --> 00:28:59,815
Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see under
541
00:28:59,815 --> 00:29:02,145
your, your term as president of AFDA?
542
00:29:03,754 --> 00:29:04,885
Kelly: Oh, another great question.
543
00:29:04,885 --> 00:29:09,274
I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.
544
00:29:09,274 --> 00:29:10,065
So as.
545
00:29:10,409 --> 00:29:14,010
My dad said we always had that idea
that you'd never stop learning.
546
00:29:14,050 --> 00:29:18,440
And we've just introduced the
FDA has just introduced it online
547
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,550
funeral learning hub, because a lot
of our members are really remote.
548
00:29:21,889 --> 00:29:26,989
So to get to in person training is near
on impossible and very costly, you know,
549
00:29:26,989 --> 00:29:29,509
to get to major cities or regional cities.
550
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:33,289
So this is an Australian
first it's world class.
551
00:29:33,665 --> 00:29:36,675
Um, that's in the UK
and New Zealand as well.
552
00:29:36,685 --> 00:29:39,844
And it's only exclusively
available to our AGM members.
553
00:29:39,925 --> 00:29:44,075
And it is an incredible collection
of training and learning that
554
00:29:44,075 --> 00:29:45,975
we can do together as members.
555
00:29:45,985 --> 00:29:51,675
So my, my goal over this time
is to We've now got that in
556
00:29:51,915 --> 00:29:53,195
and everyone can get onto it.
557
00:29:53,205 --> 00:29:57,565
Now it's encouraging every member to
utilise that because, you know, it's a
558
00:29:57,575 --> 00:30:01,822
massive resource that we've put a lot
of time and money into for our members.
559
00:30:01,822 --> 00:30:03,301
That's what they asked for.
560
00:30:03,301 --> 00:30:05,075
They wanted more
opportunities for learning.
561
00:30:05,075 --> 00:30:08,919
But how do we engage every single
member, no matter where they are?
562
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:15,220
No matter what size they are, and it's
amazing to see the uptake of people
563
00:30:15,270 --> 00:30:20,610
already onto that funeral learning
home, so it's, it's just incredible and
564
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:25,270
it's just a wonderful way to, you know,
share information and, you know, whilst
565
00:30:25,270 --> 00:30:28,200
we all offer that, that funeral care.
566
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,640
We do all do it in different ways.
567
00:30:30,670 --> 00:30:33,800
So we all have our own policies and
procedures in our own business, but
568
00:30:33,810 --> 00:30:38,260
there's some things that are just
universal and that, you know, AFTA, we
569
00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:43,130
have our code of ethics and conduct and
those sort of things are just reiterated
570
00:30:43,150 --> 00:30:47,940
time and time again, why we're here, why
these standards are so, so important.
571
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,160
And when those standards aren't
there, because we're not a
572
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,770
regulated industry, you know, this
is where the cracks appeared, you
573
00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:57,605
know, can, can, um, come about.
574
00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:58,905
So it's really important.
575
00:30:59,525 --> 00:31:04,305
All our staff, all our teams know
the importance of why you're an AFDA
576
00:31:04,355 --> 00:31:07,655
member because we have to maintain
these standards at all costs.
577
00:31:08,175 --> 00:31:10,355
So our families get the
best experience possible.
578
00:31:12,105 --> 00:31:14,995
Catherine: I saw in, uh, I think
it was one of the research papers
579
00:31:14,995 --> 00:31:19,045
you did with McRindle about the
fact that your members had actually
580
00:31:19,385 --> 00:31:21,365
requested professional development.
581
00:31:21,365 --> 00:31:23,635
It was something that was, I
think, one of the highest things
582
00:31:23,645 --> 00:31:25,415
that they, they were after.
583
00:31:25,495 --> 00:31:26,845
I think it was about 22.
584
00:31:27,275 --> 00:31:29,695
And I have to say when I.
585
00:31:30,030 --> 00:31:33,740
First was reaching out to
industry associations last year.
586
00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:39,680
Uh, I was really impressed, I think,
coming from a state government background.
587
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,080
I'm very familiar with compliance training
and and the importance of compliance
588
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,650
training on and completing our modules.
589
00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:48,750
I think we used to do about 13 per year.
590
00:31:49,455 --> 00:31:51,635
But it really is important.
591
00:31:51,645 --> 00:31:56,515
But yet only the flip side of that,
I've also, you know, my husband
592
00:31:56,515 --> 00:31:58,085
runs a decorative painting business.
593
00:31:58,085 --> 00:32:01,005
So I understand the
difficulty of that compliance.
594
00:32:02,035 --> 00:32:05,995
when you're actually a small business
because you can't implement it yourself.
595
00:32:05,995 --> 00:32:07,005
It's very difficult.
596
00:32:07,345 --> 00:32:11,205
So I was super impressed when
I saw that platform last year.
597
00:32:11,715 --> 00:32:18,185
Uh, and yeah, it, it, it just seems, you
know, providing a need that, you know,
598
00:32:18,195 --> 00:32:20,985
would be very costly to actually get if it
599
00:32:20,985 --> 00:32:21,775
Kelly: wasn't there.
600
00:32:22,325 --> 00:32:25,385
Well, most, most of our members
would never be able to implement.
601
00:32:25,655 --> 00:32:29,415
Probably even, you know, anything like
that for sure, and even our largest
602
00:32:29,415 --> 00:32:32,325
members, you know, have already got
things in place, but they're loving
603
00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:36,455
it because we're learning from a big,
again, from a bigger source of, of
604
00:32:36,455 --> 00:32:40,665
information, and it's a lot of shared
information, a lot of, um, people that are
605
00:32:40,665 --> 00:32:42,475
contributing to that funeral learning hub.
606
00:32:43,165 --> 00:32:47,005
are people from our membership who have
got great experience in certain areas
607
00:32:47,005 --> 00:32:50,665
and and listening to their stories like
you're just not ticking a box you're
608
00:32:50,665 --> 00:32:54,575
actually getting this person telling
you about this experience they've had
609
00:32:54,965 --> 00:33:00,558
and for some people who don't get to
those in person um opportunities to be
610
00:33:00,558 --> 00:33:04,430
able to learn and listen from people
who are willing to support and help you.
611
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:06,730
And as I said, and they could
just as easily turn around
612
00:33:06,730 --> 00:33:07,790
and offer them something.
613
00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:09,490
So it's never just a one way street.
614
00:33:09,930 --> 00:33:12,560
And I think the learning
hub will only get stronger.
615
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,800
I mean, it's started with so many
modules, it's going to be added
616
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,430
to over the, over the years.
617
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:21,620
And we're already responding to people
going, Oh, I'd love to see this on it.
618
00:33:21,790 --> 00:33:27,485
So it's just, I'm, I'm just so thrilled
about it because it is, One of the
619
00:33:27,525 --> 00:33:31,375
biggest things our members asked for
was opportunities and COVID really
620
00:33:31,385 --> 00:33:34,405
shut a lot of that down because so
much of our training was in person.
621
00:33:34,955 --> 00:33:39,595
So to come up with that, and that's thanks
to our CEO, Dale Gilson, who's done a
622
00:33:39,595 --> 00:33:41,365
lot of research into what we could do.
623
00:33:41,365 --> 00:33:44,425
And as I said, a lot of people went,
all this is, it's increased our, you
624
00:33:44,425 --> 00:33:45,995
know, the cost of being a member.
625
00:33:46,755 --> 00:33:50,415
You know, when I look at what it
costs to give my staff this excellent
626
00:33:50,425 --> 00:33:54,325
training for our team, as I said,
it's negligible compared to if I had
627
00:33:54,325 --> 00:33:55,775
to try and implement that myself.
628
00:33:55,785 --> 00:33:59,995
So for all of our members, I think it's
such an, it's such a valuable tool.
629
00:34:01,495 --> 00:34:06,355
Catherine: And tell me what, what is
involved in the membership of, and joining
630
00:34:06,405 --> 00:34:08,355
Australian Funeral Directors Association?
631
00:34:08,615 --> 00:34:10,595
You know, what do you do?
632
00:34:10,785 --> 00:34:13,975
I, you mentioned a little bit
about advocating earlier on.
633
00:34:14,295 --> 00:34:16,895
Obviously we've touched on
professional development.
634
00:34:17,225 --> 00:34:19,515
Why is membership important?
635
00:34:21,185 --> 00:34:23,195
Kelly: The A& T is a member association.
636
00:34:23,195 --> 00:34:24,915
So it's there to support members.
637
00:34:24,985 --> 00:34:25,585
And I think.
638
00:34:26,405 --> 00:34:28,925
As you said, there's lots
of parts to what we do.
639
00:34:28,945 --> 00:34:31,745
I mean, we're here to promote
the value of the funeral.
640
00:34:32,655 --> 00:34:34,705
And a lot of people think, oh,
that's having a big service.
641
00:34:34,715 --> 00:34:36,405
And it doesn't necessarily mean that.
642
00:34:36,405 --> 00:34:38,885
I think COVID showed us that
even when they're beautiful and
643
00:34:38,885 --> 00:34:43,235
small and intimate, they could
be just as powerful and special.
644
00:34:43,635 --> 00:34:47,735
But it is acknowledging the fact that
For thousands of years people have
645
00:34:47,735 --> 00:34:51,455
gathered when someone's died and there
is a reason why, that importance of
646
00:34:51,455 --> 00:34:53,735
acknowledging when someone has died.
647
00:34:54,185 --> 00:34:57,565
And I don't often say sometimes it's
not someone we love, sometimes it's
648
00:34:57,575 --> 00:35:00,945
someone we've had a really difficult
relationship with, but some things
649
00:35:00,945 --> 00:35:05,610
need to be shared and acknowledged
at a time of loss and grief.
650
00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:11,790
So we try and promote the value of that
coming together, you know, and even when
651
00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:18,450
we, we're doing what we call a no service
cremation, we always have a viewing or
652
00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:21,520
a vigil with a family the night before,
so they have time to connect with their
653
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,230
loved one in their physical presence.
654
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:26,870
Not, if they don't want a viewing,
that's fine, but just sitting with the
655
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:29,210
coffin, I think, can be just as helpful.
656
00:35:29,220 --> 00:35:33,460
So having those opportunities
together, to have that support.
657
00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:38,670
I think I read, I think it was on one
of those pages, it was the National
658
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:43,395
COVID 19 Bereavement study they did
afterwards, you know, said something
659
00:35:43,395 --> 00:35:46,595
about when we were restricted, we couldn't
have family and friends around us.
660
00:35:46,885 --> 00:35:50,105
You know, how people felt
that lack of support and felt
661
00:35:50,105 --> 00:35:51,445
like it didn't even happen.
662
00:35:52,615 --> 00:35:57,105
And I've had, we know this, I've seen
this over years, I've had, I remember
663
00:35:57,105 --> 00:36:01,095
one lady distinctly coming in to see
me, she came to pick up her husband's,
664
00:36:01,235 --> 00:36:02,695
her loved one's cremated remains.
665
00:36:02,735 --> 00:36:05,100
And, She said, I said, Oh, here you go.
666
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:06,460
It doesn't even feel real.
667
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:08,440
No one's come up to me
because no one knows.
668
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:09,840
He didn't want a funeral.
669
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,130
It just means now I don't get any support.
670
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:16,080
And I thought there's got to be
something said around that because
671
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:20,730
we need, people need that, I think
someone's excuse to say I'm so sorry.
672
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,850
But if they don't see it, or it's
not advertised, or there's nothing,
673
00:36:24,130 --> 00:36:26,430
it's really hard to say, oh, perhaps
they don't want to talk about it.
674
00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:28,060
Perhaps we better not mention it.
675
00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:30,360
And it's just like it never happened.
676
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,870
And I think we need to be
really careful of that.
677
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:36,330
And I think COVID showed us that
because when families couldn't do
678
00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:42,345
what they wanted to do, the extra
layer, of grief and trauma, I think.
679
00:36:42,625 --> 00:36:44,695
I think it won't be understood
for many years to come.
680
00:36:44,785 --> 00:36:45,975
I really believe that.
681
00:36:45,975 --> 00:36:47,955
So we talk about the value of the funeral.
682
00:36:47,955 --> 00:36:48,985
That's really important.
683
00:36:49,095 --> 00:36:50,905
And we talk about having
professional standards.
684
00:36:50,935 --> 00:36:53,155
As I mentioned, it's not
a regulated industry.
685
00:36:53,155 --> 00:36:57,155
So people could start up with literally
no premises and maybe a vehicle.
686
00:36:57,555 --> 00:37:01,275
And people don't understand that
when it's a low cost funeral.
687
00:37:01,275 --> 00:37:01,365
I think.
688
00:37:01,775 --> 00:37:06,405
And that's why, you know, when we look at
the infrastructure, we, we have to provide
689
00:37:06,405 --> 00:37:07,575
for the families we're looking after.
690
00:37:07,645 --> 00:37:10,935
They would expect nothing less in
our community that they are top notch
691
00:37:11,165 --> 00:37:12,665
and the best we could possibly offer.
692
00:37:13,265 --> 00:37:15,915
Those sorts of things, of
course, have a cost behind them.
693
00:37:16,295 --> 00:37:20,915
But if you don't have that infrastructure
or staff or the education around it,
694
00:37:21,255 --> 00:37:22,555
of course your costs could be lower.
695
00:37:22,555 --> 00:37:27,955
So it's understanding what your, you
know, those standards must be maintained.
696
00:37:27,975 --> 00:37:30,635
We must offer the families
the very, very best.
697
00:37:31,035 --> 00:37:31,665
of care.
698
00:37:31,835 --> 00:37:34,305
And that means having all that
infrastructure behind us to
699
00:37:34,305 --> 00:37:37,435
support us, to make sure we're
doing it as well as possible.
700
00:37:37,455 --> 00:37:41,085
Also as safely as possible,
you know, not just for us, but
701
00:37:41,095 --> 00:37:42,245
the people we're looking after.
702
00:37:42,255 --> 00:37:42,605
I think that's.
703
00:37:43,095 --> 00:37:44,025
Absolutely imperative.
704
00:37:44,035 --> 00:37:47,825
So I think having those certain standards
of premises, vehicle, equipment,
705
00:37:48,415 --> 00:37:51,625
you must have continued develop,
professional development to be a member.
706
00:37:52,005 --> 00:37:55,175
So there are some future directors who
couldn't be members of ours because they
707
00:37:55,175 --> 00:37:57,125
would not be able to meet our standards.
708
00:37:57,585 --> 00:38:01,355
But as I said, we're the largest
in, in Australia because most
709
00:38:01,355 --> 00:38:02,624
people want to be part of that team.
710
00:38:02,795 --> 00:38:06,755
Um, self regulation and to make
sure there are some standards.
711
00:38:07,335 --> 00:38:09,315
Probably the wider community
aren't aware of that.
712
00:38:09,455 --> 00:38:12,555
That's our job to let people
know what the difference is.
713
00:38:13,345 --> 00:38:18,335
But I think it's the intangible benefit
of membership that people will, you
714
00:38:18,335 --> 00:38:22,255
don't have to say you're an AFDA
Because our standards are so high,
715
00:38:22,385 --> 00:38:24,055
that's because we're an AFTA member.
716
00:38:24,245 --> 00:38:26,175
We, we're rising to standards.
717
00:38:26,415 --> 00:38:29,795
We're looking at each other and they say,
oh we've just got this new vehicle and
718
00:38:29,795 --> 00:38:32,645
this great lifter and oh that's fantastic.
719
00:38:32,995 --> 00:38:34,195
Great, we'll look at doing that.
720
00:38:34,235 --> 00:38:35,625
That looks like a really good option.
721
00:38:36,025 --> 00:38:40,274
So I think those sort of things
make us better, better carers.
722
00:38:41,295 --> 00:38:44,655
for the community in what we do
because we're part of something bigger.
723
00:38:46,435 --> 00:38:53,265
Catherine: And I would think that also if
you're an organization wanting to strive
724
00:38:53,285 --> 00:38:59,485
for best practice, it would also in turn
have a flow on effect for your staff as
725
00:38:59,485 --> 00:39:02,065
well, working within those organizations.
726
00:39:02,065 --> 00:39:02,515
Absolutely.
727
00:39:02,515 --> 00:39:09,220
Kelly: Because again, we have support with
things like HR and OH& S and You know, as
728
00:39:09,220 --> 00:39:12,700
I said before, Catherine, I'm, I'm a field
director, I'm not a business manager, I'm
729
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:15,150
not a HR manager, I'm not an OHS manager.
730
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,830
And how do you keep on top of all those
updates and changes in regulations
731
00:39:20,830 --> 00:39:24,630
and requirements and, you know, all
the things that you have to be aware
732
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:28,090
of when you're managing one person,
let alone a hundred people, and making
733
00:39:28,090 --> 00:39:31,800
sure they come to work every day
in a safe and healthy environment.
734
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:34,330
So those sorts of things
are really important.
735
00:39:34,690 --> 00:39:37,155
And The AFTA helps us be aware of that.
736
00:39:37,165 --> 00:39:40,705
All those things that come through, we're,
you know, provided that information.
737
00:39:40,715 --> 00:39:44,465
So I don't know how you keep up
with all of those changes otherwise.
738
00:39:44,475 --> 00:39:48,555
So it's, it's really amazing that
we've got that support to make sure
739
00:39:48,555 --> 00:39:52,625
that our staff come to the best place
that we can offer them to work in
740
00:39:52,625 --> 00:39:54,139
this, you know, in this industry.
741
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:58,180
Catherine: And you mentioned that,
uh, there's some organizations
742
00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:00,900
that you know that would not be
able to qualify for membership.
743
00:40:01,330 --> 00:40:05,790
So, there's obviously some sort of
vetting process that you go through
744
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,790
Kelly: when someone
applies for membership?
745
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:09,080
That's right.
746
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,490
So, they have to complete a PAV
inspection, Premises Vehicle
747
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:14,560
Inspection, uh, Equipment Inspection.
748
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,855
And, so, it's just Basic things, as I
said, that we self regulate, but it's
749
00:40:19,855 --> 00:40:23,135
the way a mortuary is set up to make
sure it can be completely washed down
750
00:40:23,135 --> 00:40:27,575
and infection control is, you know, at
the highest level it possibly can be.
751
00:40:28,095 --> 00:40:31,655
Our vehicles are beautifully maintained
and they're proper vehicles with
752
00:40:31,655 --> 00:40:34,795
proper safety barriers between,
you know, the front and the back.
753
00:40:34,795 --> 00:40:39,195
They're not just an ordinary station
wagon or four wheel drive that I've
754
00:40:39,195 --> 00:40:43,225
heard some people use, their own
family vehicle for that sort of thing.
755
00:40:43,235 --> 00:40:44,795
And, you know, for
professional businesses.
756
00:40:45,205 --> 00:40:46,235
That's not good enough.
757
00:40:46,455 --> 00:40:51,755
You know, we need to have those safety
measures in place, again, not just
758
00:40:51,755 --> 00:40:53,789
to protect our staff, to protect
the person that we're dealing with.
759
00:40:53,790 --> 00:40:59,120
We have to make sure that everything we
have, the structures that we use are the
760
00:40:59,130 --> 00:41:03,980
very best that we can possibly provide
and everything's beautifully clean and,
761
00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:07,380
and we're looking after infection control.
762
00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:09,220
All of those things are so imperative.
763
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,980
So, you know, there's some people
that just don't have those resources,
764
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,690
they'll be able to meet those standards.
765
00:41:17,215 --> 00:41:20,305
Catherine: And something that you
mentioned that really surprised me,
766
00:41:20,325 --> 00:41:25,495
actually shocked me when I found out that
there's no regulation in the industry.
767
00:41:26,625 --> 00:41:29,945
Kelly: No, apart from things like,
obviously we have to complete births,
768
00:41:29,945 --> 00:41:33,375
deaths and marriages registration
to the, you know, requirements and,
769
00:41:33,605 --> 00:41:37,585
and those sorts of things, but there
isn't as far as what does a funeral
770
00:41:37,585 --> 00:41:39,655
director have to have in their premises?
771
00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:40,405
There's nothing.
772
00:41:40,465 --> 00:41:42,529
There's no licensing or anything.
773
00:41:42,620 --> 00:41:44,740
Or, you know, requirements.
774
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:52,160
So it's, it's impossible to, you know,
see what all of these are offering or what
775
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:56,730
they have, you know, and, and sometimes
you're having refrigeration space isn't a
776
00:41:56,730 --> 00:41:58,570
mortuary, yet they'll call it a mortuary.
777
00:41:58,670 --> 00:42:03,760
You need a space to look after someone
as beautifully and as carefully as
778
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,170
possible in a secure, intimate environment
that's very safe, that protects the
779
00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:10,990
privacy of the people in your care.
780
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,470
So those sorts of things,
I sound really bicey.
781
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,250
But sometimes those people, some
people don't have those resources.
782
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:19,820
So it's, it's really sad.
783
00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:21,670
I'd love to see that regulation.
784
00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:25,040
Um, and that's something that as an
association, you know, I'd love to look
785
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,590
at that, that even if, if we helped
to, you know, provide that, because
786
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,100
all our members already have these.
787
00:42:30,495 --> 00:42:33,565
more than probably standards
overseas with this license.
788
00:42:33,575 --> 00:42:35,485
Our standards are above and beyond that.
789
00:42:35,485 --> 00:42:40,285
So I'd love to see us all held
to an account, or at least all
790
00:42:40,285 --> 00:42:43,045
funeral directors must be part
of a professional association.
791
00:42:43,045 --> 00:42:45,545
So that means there's
some level of checking.
792
00:42:45,820 --> 00:42:51,350
That there's a check of some course,
even if it's by peers, I think
793
00:42:51,350 --> 00:42:52,460
that would be really important.
794
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,020
Catherine: And at this stage, if
people are wanting to find a funeral
795
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:02,820
director in their local area, that is
a member of your association, so they
796
00:43:02,850 --> 00:43:06,930
can, you know, feel more comfortable
that there is some sort of, you know,
797
00:43:06,970 --> 00:43:09,170
best practice standard being upheld.
798
00:43:09,540 --> 00:43:11,250
That's available on your website,
799
00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:11,670
Kelly: isn't it?
800
00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:12,450
It is.
801
00:43:12,450 --> 00:43:15,690
You just go to the AFDA website
and it's that it's a find a
802
00:43:15,690 --> 00:43:16,680
funeral director function.
803
00:43:17,095 --> 00:43:20,235
We put in the town or the postcode
and it will give you, you know,
804
00:43:20,245 --> 00:43:22,045
options for however many kilometres.
805
00:43:22,055 --> 00:43:26,555
So, you know, you can still get that
option to compare, to ring around, to make
806
00:43:26,555 --> 00:43:32,605
sure it's not just the person, it's not
just about cost, it's also about feel.
807
00:43:32,625 --> 00:43:35,395
Is that the right person that's going
to be looking after me and my family and
808
00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:36,815
this will be looking after our loved one.
809
00:43:37,135 --> 00:43:38,845
So it's really good to have those options.
810
00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:40,855
So it's a really good place to start.
811
00:43:40,855 --> 00:43:44,695
So, you know, but at the very least
we have to have maintained these.
812
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:46,350
Standards to be a member.
813
00:43:47,950 --> 00:43:52,580
Catherine: And I know that it's very
comprehensive, the process that you,
814
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:54,810
you have outlined on your website.
815
00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:59,060
I know when I was writing my guide, you
know, you know, my loved one has died.
816
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:00,200
What do I do now?
817
00:44:00,450 --> 00:44:05,055
I didn't even bother going in to
detail about funerals because it's very
818
00:44:05,055 --> 00:44:07,350
comprehensively covered on your website.
819
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:11,450
So I know that that's a great resource
and we'll, we'll put a link to that,
820
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:14,330
uh, in the, the show notes as well.
821
00:44:14,330 --> 00:44:14,380
Um,
822
00:44:14,730 --> 00:44:15,610
Kelly: Oh, fantastic.
823
00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:18,980
Look, I think, if nothing else, just
like what you're doing, Catherine,
824
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:24,460
information is powerful and it's
so important at a time like this.
825
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,760
And if we can look for that
information before that time comes.
826
00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:32,030
even better because you're
thinking a little bit more clearly.
827
00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:35,250
You've probably got more
time to make those decisions.
828
00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:39,040
Just even looking at all the options,
you know, we always say when people ring
829
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,290
up, just, Oh, can we have a funeral here?
830
00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:42,670
There's no obligation.
831
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:44,680
I'd love to send this
information out to you.
832
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:47,410
Even if you don't do anything
else, you will have more
833
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:48,600
information than you do now.
834
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,950
And So when that time comes, you'll
at least have a starting point.
835
00:44:52,270 --> 00:44:56,090
And I think that's absolutely key
because it makes, it helps families
836
00:44:56,090 --> 00:45:00,750
feel empowered and in control at a
time that you don't feel in control.
837
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,220
Someone you love has died, you
feel completely out of control.
838
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:04,830
You can't control that situation.
839
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:08,795
But we need to be able to have You
know, all the options in front of
840
00:45:08,795 --> 00:45:10,325
you without it being overwhelming.
841
00:45:10,405 --> 00:45:13,715
And that's the fine point is if I
gave you all the options available,
842
00:45:13,715 --> 00:45:16,405
when someone's passed away, the
arrangement would take a week.
843
00:45:16,765 --> 00:45:22,165
So it's trying to ascertain how
much information do we offer
844
00:45:22,255 --> 00:45:23,885
so we don't overwhelm a family.
845
00:45:24,315 --> 00:45:24,895
in grief.
846
00:45:25,145 --> 00:45:29,265
So if you can look at that information
before a person passes, even if it's
847
00:45:29,265 --> 00:45:32,885
just for yourself, even if you, all
you do is think, right, if I don't,
848
00:45:32,885 --> 00:45:34,285
what would I do for my funeral?
849
00:45:34,485 --> 00:45:36,795
And start looking at and having
those conversations with families.
850
00:45:37,045 --> 00:45:41,465
The more those conversations are just
easy conversations, the better it is,
851
00:45:41,515 --> 00:45:45,185
you know, when the time comes, because
then families are saying, Oh, daddy's
852
00:45:45,185 --> 00:45:46,295
talking about that all the time.
853
00:45:46,355 --> 00:45:48,345
You know, we know exactly what he wants.
854
00:45:49,125 --> 00:45:49,765
The difference.
855
00:45:50,155 --> 00:45:52,635
That Max is palpable.
856
00:45:54,175 --> 00:45:55,195
Catherine: It really is.
857
00:45:55,245 --> 00:46:00,575
You know, I, I liken it to when you
have to have the, the sex conversation
858
00:46:00,575 --> 00:46:05,165
with children, you know, how they always
say to you that, you know, you should
859
00:46:05,165 --> 00:46:09,745
always have these conversations when
you're in the car driving somewhere.
860
00:46:10,085 --> 00:46:12,805
So you've got them in a
contained environment.
861
00:46:14,185 --> 00:46:17,655
You can have the hard conversation
and they can't get out of the car.
862
00:46:17,845 --> 00:46:19,015
Yes, exactly.
863
00:46:19,015 --> 00:46:19,879
for having me.
864
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:23,280
I think we should be doing the
same thing in relation to having
865
00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:27,870
conversations about death, because I
think that of recent incidents that
866
00:46:27,870 --> 00:46:34,460
we saw in Sydney over the weekend,
things aren't always where we, we, we
867
00:46:34,460 --> 00:46:36,430
expect them to be when someone dies.
868
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:39,550
Unfortunately, it can happen at any time.
869
00:46:39,620 --> 00:46:43,460
I had a car accident five years
ago on my way to work and it
870
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:44,990
changed my life completely.
871
00:46:45,810 --> 00:46:50,350
So you never know when that one
incident's going to happen, that you
872
00:46:50,350 --> 00:46:53,330
need to act in one way or another.
873
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:59,660
Uh, and I think that as you said, you
know, the, the majority of people only
874
00:46:59,660 --> 00:47:04,170
sort of seem to make those decisions or
have those conversations when they're
875
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:09,725
feeling very vulnerable and they're in
a very, uh, tight situation, perhaps
876
00:47:09,725 --> 00:47:15,195
timeline wise, uh, and it would be great
if we could just see people have those
877
00:47:15,215 --> 00:47:21,315
conversations in the car on the way to
school or, you know, doing the grocery
878
00:47:21,315 --> 00:47:22,605
Kelly: shopping or having dinner.
879
00:47:23,715 --> 00:47:24,305
Absolutely.
880
00:47:24,305 --> 00:47:26,495
I mean, it is an old age, but It's true.
881
00:47:26,505 --> 00:47:29,605
Death is a part of life and
we, we, we are surrounded by it
882
00:47:29,605 --> 00:47:32,865
and, and we all experience it,
you know, and that's the thing.
883
00:47:32,875 --> 00:47:37,715
And I think, you know, often when people
come to us and say, Oh, you know, dad
884
00:47:37,715 --> 00:47:41,825
didn't want a funeral and you sort of
tease a bit of information out about that.
885
00:47:42,335 --> 00:47:46,825
And often what that means is, they
didn't have a great experience at a
886
00:47:46,825 --> 00:47:51,405
funeral, maybe years ago, and they're
trying to protect their family from that.
887
00:47:51,415 --> 00:47:54,315
So they go, Oh, you don't have
to do that, I'll protect you.
888
00:47:54,315 --> 00:47:56,365
So I'm going to just give you
permission not to have anything.
889
00:47:56,985 --> 00:48:00,695
But then of course the family feel
obliged to do exactly what dad
890
00:48:00,695 --> 00:48:04,745
wanted, but it's not necessarily
the right thing for either.
891
00:48:05,705 --> 00:48:08,345
Because sometimes it's that
protectiveness, I see it in
892
00:48:08,345 --> 00:48:11,485
parents all the time, that
wanting to protect their children.
893
00:48:12,085 --> 00:48:16,215
The children who might be 60 or 70
themselves, but still want to protect
894
00:48:16,215 --> 00:48:18,395
them from the reality of death.
895
00:48:19,165 --> 00:48:22,295
And of course we can't, you
know, it's, it stays there and
896
00:48:22,295 --> 00:48:26,145
unfortunately, you know, like
anything, you can't, you can't bury it.
897
00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:30,315
It is, it'll come up and having
those conversations around, well,
898
00:48:30,495 --> 00:48:33,414
you know, if your mum or dad
says, Oh, I don't want anything.
899
00:48:33,585 --> 00:48:35,355
Well, can you tell me why that is?
900
00:48:35,395 --> 00:48:40,415
Because, you know, I can see the value
in being us all together as a family,
901
00:48:40,415 --> 00:48:44,695
so I just want to understand your
reason why, and would you, would you be
902
00:48:44,695 --> 00:48:48,005
upset if we did want to do something,
even if it's something really simple?
903
00:48:48,605 --> 00:48:51,805
And there's still a lot of people around
that still think you have to have.
904
00:48:52,380 --> 00:48:55,360
A big advertised funeral,
still in a church.
905
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:57,270
People go, oh, do I have
to have it in a church?
906
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,430
Do you have to advertise
it in the newspaper?
907
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:00,630
No, you don't.
908
00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:03,990
A funeral, you can call it a gathering,
if you like, just to get away from
909
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:06,490
that, the, the older terminology.
910
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:11,350
We often say, we're having a gathering of
family and friends on this day, and we're
911
00:49:11,350 --> 00:49:12,910
going to share some beautiful stories.
912
00:49:13,180 --> 00:49:16,750
And it's very different to having a wake.
913
00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:18,720
You know, people go, oh, we'll
just have a wake afterwards.
914
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:18,924
It's very different.
915
00:49:19,255 --> 00:49:22,185
Often, what's missed is, number
one, your presence with the
916
00:49:22,185 --> 00:49:23,385
deceased for the last time.
917
00:49:24,165 --> 00:49:30,405
And I think the stories and the sharing
of things doesn't come out as easily if
918
00:49:30,405 --> 00:49:32,165
it doesn't start with something first.
919
00:49:32,545 --> 00:49:34,295
Someone's got to start that process.
920
00:49:34,715 --> 00:49:38,205
You know, when that's not being done
well at the service or the gathering,
921
00:49:38,415 --> 00:49:40,195
when they go back to the wake afterwards.
922
00:49:40,375 --> 00:49:42,735
Oh, that's stimulated a
whole lot of conversations.
923
00:49:42,745 --> 00:49:45,105
Like you can see it and we often
go to them, of course, because
924
00:49:45,105 --> 00:49:48,445
we know so many people and think,
oh, it's just chat, chat, chat.
925
00:49:48,475 --> 00:49:49,655
And I love that.
926
00:49:49,685 --> 00:49:53,945
I think that's the most amazing part
about bringing people together for a
927
00:49:53,945 --> 00:49:56,455
funeral is having that camaraderie.
928
00:49:56,455 --> 00:50:00,295
You're all sharing something really
special on that day, as hard as it
929
00:50:01,205 --> 00:50:02,945
It is actually a very special day.
930
00:50:02,975 --> 00:50:07,575
So having those conversations around
why, why you want certain things,
931
00:50:07,575 --> 00:50:11,025
why you don't want certain things
is just as important as I don't want
932
00:50:11,025 --> 00:50:13,085
a service or I do want a service.
933
00:50:13,595 --> 00:50:14,385
Why is that?
934
00:50:14,425 --> 00:50:17,695
And let's work around that to make
sure we've got something because
935
00:50:17,865 --> 00:50:20,285
there'll be one member of your
family, if you've got three kids,
936
00:50:20,305 --> 00:50:21,565
they'll all want something different.
937
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,730
If you've got six kids, I'll all
want something different, guaranteed.
938
00:50:26,830 --> 00:50:28,960
Catherine: And, and
that's, that's very true.
939
00:50:29,010 --> 00:50:34,170
And so, you know, that, is that one of
the biggest challenges that you've seen
940
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:40,650
as a funeral director over the years when
families are, you know, dealing with the
941
00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:45,980
loss of a loved one and they're having
to plan a funeral is not knowing or?
942
00:50:47,070 --> 00:50:53,040
Kelly: I would say the hardest thing
or the biggest challenge In working
943
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,160
funerals is family dynamics, and
944
00:50:59,610 --> 00:51:03,200
it's interesting because I usually
preface when I'm talking to a family
945
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,240
to say, like, we're in a safe place.
946
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,810
Every family has their
stuff, including our own.
947
00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:13,420
So what we need to do to work out what
we're going to do for your mum or your
948
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:16,830
dad is work out what everyone needs,
because you'll all have a different life.
949
00:51:17,225 --> 00:51:20,485
idea, and it's really important
we listen to each other.
950
00:51:20,665 --> 00:51:25,175
So, you know, making sure that we try
and involve everyone that needs to
951
00:51:25,175 --> 00:51:29,165
be involved, obviously, it's not on
for everyone, but those key people.
952
00:51:29,695 --> 00:51:32,605
But family dynamics, I think,
can be the trickiest thing.
953
00:51:32,615 --> 00:51:38,915
It can really One death can bring
up grief about a whole lot of other
954
00:51:38,915 --> 00:51:43,565
things, about the relationship itself,
about a lack of fear of a relationship.
955
00:51:43,975 --> 00:51:49,255
It's, it's fraught with lots of issues,
and they can come to a head because
956
00:51:49,275 --> 00:51:52,915
grief, when it's there, gives you
an excuse for being quite emotional.
957
00:51:53,575 --> 00:51:56,665
So it sort of lets the floodgates
open a lot of the time, so to speak.
958
00:51:57,775 --> 00:52:01,865
And sometimes I think the hardest
part of what we do is making sure
959
00:52:01,865 --> 00:52:03,195
that we're listening, listening.
960
00:52:03,905 --> 00:52:07,185
And we're capturing, trying to
capture what everyone needs.
961
00:52:07,205 --> 00:52:10,075
Even when you usually have to
listen to the executor, that's
962
00:52:10,215 --> 00:52:11,065
who we have to listen to.
963
00:52:11,065 --> 00:52:12,895
They ultimately make the right decision.
964
00:52:13,465 --> 00:52:17,125
So with your work, Catherine, in
preparing, I, my one piece of advice
965
00:52:17,125 --> 00:52:19,825
before you even get to the funeral
is choose the right executors.
966
00:52:20,305 --> 00:52:24,385
Don't choose them just because it's
the eldest, son or this person,
967
00:52:24,875 --> 00:52:28,505
you need to choose the person who
you know will do what you want.
968
00:52:28,955 --> 00:52:32,985
And I think that's the most important
thing because that's fraught with,
969
00:52:33,175 --> 00:52:37,685
fraught with a lot of angst and
danger, I think, at a time of loss.
970
00:52:38,105 --> 00:52:41,175
And I think that's another impetus
to people saying we don't want a
971
00:52:41,175 --> 00:52:43,435
funeral because they don't want
to have to deal with that stuff.
972
00:52:43,745 --> 00:52:45,375
And that's a real loss.
973
00:52:46,005 --> 00:52:47,305
Yeah, for everyone involved.
974
00:52:50,075 --> 00:52:54,855
Catherine: And as an industry association,
you mentioned that you're, you have
975
00:52:54,855 --> 00:53:00,495
the ability to meet with the coroner's
court when you're at a state level and
976
00:53:00,545 --> 00:53:05,485
other bodies, but how do you measure
trends within the funeral industry?
977
00:53:05,485 --> 00:53:09,425
We've touched on it a little bit and,
and how do you go through advocating
978
00:53:09,485 --> 00:53:11,165
for change within the industry?
979
00:53:12,855 --> 00:53:18,035
Kelly: We commissioned our own research
starting in 2021 through McRindle Research
980
00:53:18,465 --> 00:53:23,185
and we had members contribute to that
research over a period of 15 months, which
981
00:53:23,185 --> 00:53:28,665
was a huge commitment, but it meant that
members from all over Australia, metro,
982
00:53:28,875 --> 00:53:33,585
regional, rural, the most remote of our
members contributed to that data because
983
00:53:33,585 --> 00:53:36,615
we wanted to have an understanding of,
number one, what our members face, what
984
00:53:36,615 --> 00:53:40,545
are they dealing with, what are the most
important things that are affecting their
985
00:53:40,555 --> 00:53:42,765
ability to do their work with families.
986
00:53:43,245 --> 00:53:46,195
So that's sort of, we need
to understand those trends.
987
00:53:46,195 --> 00:53:50,165
We need to understand the challenges
and the opportunities for families
988
00:53:50,165 --> 00:53:51,515
and sharing that information.
989
00:53:51,525 --> 00:53:55,055
So that information came out
in three different reports.
990
00:53:55,395 --> 00:53:59,310
Uh, one was about even, The average
cost of funerals, what people are
991
00:53:59,310 --> 00:54:03,480
choosing, where people have died, all
those sorts of really important things.
992
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,330
Because, you know, as I said,
back when I started, most of our
993
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,030
transfers, you know, into our care
would have been from a family home.
994
00:54:11,350 --> 00:54:14,710
Whereas now our resources need to go, we
might be going to Melbourne or Bendigo,
995
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:18,100
you know, an hour away, two hours
away, because they're in healthcare.
996
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:23,935
So that impacts how we are able to engage
with their families and time needed.
997
00:54:23,935 --> 00:54:27,865
So you have to know those trends to
be able to resource your business
998
00:54:28,125 --> 00:54:31,835
properly so that you can help the
families to the best of your ability.
999
00:54:32,175 --> 00:54:35,915
We also looked at, um, the work
family, the funeral managers do
1000
00:54:35,915 --> 00:54:38,085
with families after the funeral.
1001
00:54:38,095 --> 00:54:40,325
So what sort of aftercare is involved?
1002
00:54:40,335 --> 00:54:42,455
How do we contribute to our communities?
1003
00:54:43,035 --> 00:54:47,145
Because Just like our family,
we've been in cartons since the E.
1004
00:54:47,145 --> 00:54:47,165
D.
1005
00:54:47,165 --> 00:54:47,175
O.
1006
00:54:47,175 --> 00:54:47,195
T.
1007
00:54:47,535 --> 00:54:49,925
Uh, we've been here
since 1938 in business.
1008
00:54:50,285 --> 00:54:52,545
Most of us belong to small communities.
1009
00:54:52,585 --> 00:54:57,105
And even those larger members in,
in the metro areas, they have their
1010
00:54:57,625 --> 00:54:59,575
suburbs that are their communities.
1011
00:54:59,585 --> 00:55:01,535
So they know those staff there.
1012
00:55:01,845 --> 00:55:04,725
When people say, oh, they're a big
member, I say, the people that I
1013
00:55:04,725 --> 00:55:06,765
speak to are those large companies.
1014
00:55:07,145 --> 00:55:08,185
It's just like me and you.
1015
00:55:08,225 --> 00:55:11,795
They care just as much, they
love their job just as much,
1016
00:55:11,805 --> 00:55:13,115
and they get as much out of it.
1017
00:55:13,135 --> 00:55:18,155
So, you know, those mini communities
within suburbs are also very present.
1018
00:55:18,395 --> 00:55:22,395
So it's important that, you know,
we're also part of the community.
1019
00:55:22,755 --> 00:55:26,005
And those trends, it was really
important to see those trends, the
1020
00:55:26,015 --> 00:55:30,535
importance of doing that, and to see
the feedback you get from families when
1021
00:55:30,535 --> 00:55:32,475
they see you working in a community.
1022
00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:35,290
Above and beyond the funeral
care that you provide.
1023
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:40,990
Catherine: And tell me about
the advocation side of things.
1024
00:55:41,970 --> 00:55:44,950
Kelly: So we do a lot of advocating,
again, not just brand members.
1025
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:50,750
For example, during COVID 19, you
know, and we had all those frontline
1026
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:55,330
workers, which did, I still can't even
imagine the things they were faced with.
1027
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:59,800
Unfortunately, we weren't considered,
uh, as essential service workers,
1028
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:03,640
and yet, We couldn't leave deceased
people in nursing homes, could we?
1029
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:10,730
Yet, we had to provide full P P E
V, like you saw, nurses in wear, but
1030
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:14,090
at our own expense, which, I think
that people are still recovering
1031
00:56:14,090 --> 00:56:15,780
financially from, from those costs.
1032
00:56:15,830 --> 00:56:18,710
We didn't get any help from the
government, and we didn't certainly
1033
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:22,830
get any help with making that,
the transportation easy, because
1034
00:56:22,830 --> 00:56:24,880
we're going all over the place.
1035
00:56:24,930 --> 00:56:29,700
We're going interstate, moving across
borders, going from, you know, what the
1036
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:31,460
Ring of Steel was like in Melbourne.
1037
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:35,590
So coming from regional, we had to have
papers written out every time and stop
1038
00:56:35,590 --> 00:56:37,110
near Sunbury to get into Melbourne.
1039
00:56:37,110 --> 00:56:41,310
And then on the way out again, you
know, all those things we just, so
1040
00:56:41,310 --> 00:56:45,740
we're advocated for what we were doing,
which was absolutely essential that
1041
00:56:45,740 --> 00:56:49,120
we looked after people as, as quickly.
1042
00:56:49,420 --> 00:56:54,390
And, and with that dedication
that, Not waiting for days
1043
00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:55,940
because we didn't have PPE.
1044
00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:58,330
So we're swapping around among members.
1045
00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:01,130
Whoever had some would send it
and you'd be helping each other.
1046
00:57:01,150 --> 00:57:03,130
So you could continue
to support the family.
1047
00:57:03,130 --> 00:57:07,850
So we needed to advocate to government
to say, we are also essential workers.
1048
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,590
Yes, we're private businesses, but so are
the healthcare providers in lots of ways.
1049
00:57:12,910 --> 00:57:16,800
And we need some support because
without us, We couldn't keep
1050
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,300
deceased people in nursing homes.
1051
00:57:18,490 --> 00:57:21,280
We needed to bring them into
our care so that families could
1052
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,920
start the funeral process.
1053
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:28,120
So, having those sorts of conversations
are really, really important.
1054
00:57:28,340 --> 00:57:32,130
Just about, with BDM, providing
death certificates to families, we
1055
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:35,850
have a great relationship with BDM
in Victoria and they're really open,
1056
00:57:35,850 --> 00:57:37,100
so we meet with them regularly.
1057
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,740
We talk about all That's
births, deaths, and marriages.
1058
00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:42,030
Sorry, births, deaths, and marriages.
1059
00:57:42,030 --> 00:57:42,270
Yeah.
1060
00:57:42,530 --> 00:57:45,030
So we talk about all those pain points,
you know, where we're registering a
1061
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:47,090
death or delays in death certificates.
1062
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:50,180
So now we've got great people at
BDM, which is, you know, a big
1063
00:57:50,180 --> 00:57:53,420
group of people where can anyone
say, look, can you just follow up?
1064
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:56,790
This poor lady really needs this death
certificate because she can't do this.
1065
00:57:56,790 --> 00:57:58,470
And, and they are wonderful.
1066
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,830
So having that advocacy,
having those relationships.
1067
00:58:01,515 --> 00:58:02,365
are really important.
1068
00:58:02,375 --> 00:58:05,085
So it's not just about making complaints
or saying you're not doing this, it's
1069
00:58:05,085 --> 00:58:09,785
about building a relationship to say we're
on the same team, we're on the same side,
1070
00:58:09,995 --> 00:58:14,535
we actually both want this result for this
family, but it's easier for us to ring
1071
00:58:14,535 --> 00:58:18,164
them than a grieving family to ring them
to complain about where that density is.
1072
00:58:18,595 --> 00:58:22,535
So, having that as being, you know, a
conduit to that, those conversations
1073
00:58:22,535 --> 00:58:23,905
is really, really important.
1074
00:58:23,915 --> 00:58:26,155
So, cemeteries and
crematoria, another one.
1075
00:58:26,165 --> 00:58:29,765
You know, we're in Victoria in
WA, all of our cemeteries and
1076
00:58:29,765 --> 00:58:33,545
crematoria are government controlled,
run by boards of management.
1077
00:58:34,045 --> 00:58:37,575
We have no control over their fees, so
when people say, oh, the cost of funerals,
1078
00:58:37,615 --> 00:58:40,385
you know, a lot of that is, especially
in metropolitan Melbourne, they're,
1079
00:58:40,385 --> 00:58:44,175
they're, they're, they're Burial costs are
increasing because of the lack of land.
1080
00:58:44,485 --> 00:58:45,875
We have no control over those.
1081
00:58:45,885 --> 00:58:51,385
So just appealing to that, to say to
some families, burial isn't a choice.
1082
00:58:51,465 --> 00:58:56,035
It's what they have to do because it's
a religious or a cultural requirement.
1083
00:58:56,395 --> 00:58:59,935
So they don't get a choice over
spending 12, 000 on a grave.
1084
00:59:00,425 --> 00:59:01,665
They have to do that.
1085
00:59:01,985 --> 00:59:03,595
It's imperative to them.
1086
00:59:03,595 --> 00:59:04,565
Their family are all there.
1087
00:59:05,295 --> 00:59:08,395
So it's not a choice, it's, oh, that's
what you could afford to choose.
1088
00:59:08,625 --> 00:59:14,785
For some, they will crowdfund to make
sure that that one very important piece
1089
00:59:14,865 --> 00:59:16,965
of that farewell can be delivered.
1090
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,410
taken, you know, and can be done.
1091
00:59:19,410 --> 00:59:22,770
So, you know, those sorts of
things we need to advocate to on
1092
00:59:22,770 --> 00:59:26,690
behalf of families to say, how
can we make that more realistic?
1093
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,700
Because, you know, when we talk about
the cost of funerals, I think it's
1094
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:33,220
a really important conversation for
people's, people to have, and don't
1095
00:59:33,250 --> 00:59:35,530
be shy about having a conversation.
1096
00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:38,990
Just like all information around
funerals and what you can do, it's
1097
00:59:39,010 --> 00:59:42,730
really important to understand what
your options are, what your choices are.
1098
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,300
And what they cost.
1099
00:59:44,620 --> 00:59:48,570
And when you talk about the
increasing cost of funerals as
1100
00:59:48,570 --> 00:59:51,230
a funeral industry, that's right
across the board at the moment.
1101
00:59:51,230 --> 00:59:53,550
In every industry, you
know, costs are rising.
1102
00:59:53,650 --> 00:59:55,440
It is the cost of living crisis.
1103
00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:58,930
And because funerals tap into so
many different industries, you know,
1104
00:59:59,210 --> 01:00:02,794
it's hospitality, it's manufacturing,
it's florists, it's musicians,
1105
01:00:02,794 --> 01:00:04,182
it's audio visual specialists.
1106
01:00:04,182 --> 01:00:09,930
It's, we can tap into sometimes 12 or 10
or 12 different supplies for one funeral.
1107
01:00:10,270 --> 01:00:12,070
So all of their costs have increased.
1108
01:00:12,485 --> 01:00:14,985
And, you know, when you look at
a whole of the funeral, that can
1109
01:00:14,985 --> 01:00:20,735
sometimes incorporate 10 or, 10 or 12
different supplies on top of what we
1110
01:00:20,735 --> 01:00:24,665
do, you know, as part of our care for
a deceased person and their family.
1111
01:00:24,665 --> 01:00:28,555
So, it's really important
that families understand that.
1112
01:00:28,795 --> 01:00:29,835
What costs are?
1113
01:00:30,385 --> 01:00:34,665
Having those discussions around
what do you need us to do?
1114
01:00:34,705 --> 01:00:37,045
We can do as much or as
little as you need us to do.
1115
01:00:37,065 --> 01:00:40,365
So some families, as we talked about
before, with the care of a loved one, some
1116
01:00:40,465 --> 01:00:45,005
people are very hands on, love to come
in, even if it's just doing mum's makeup,
1117
01:00:45,065 --> 01:00:46,625
you know, they want to be part of it.
1118
01:00:46,945 --> 01:00:50,785
For some people that might be, they put
together their own orders of service.
1119
01:00:51,085 --> 01:00:53,525
They put together their
own PowerPoint slideshow.
1120
01:00:53,555 --> 01:00:55,560
They live stream themselves, you know.
1121
01:00:55,930 --> 01:00:58,100
If they can't do it, we can help them.
1122
01:00:58,100 --> 01:00:59,910
We can get a service provider to do that.
1123
01:01:00,250 --> 01:01:03,080
But that's, there's lots
of ways to reduce costs.
1124
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:08,070
If families, you know, are more hands
on, they can lead their own service
1125
01:01:08,110 --> 01:01:09,710
as a celebrant if they want to.
1126
01:01:09,980 --> 01:01:11,220
You know, I wouldn't recommend that.
1127
01:01:11,250 --> 01:01:14,690
You know, I think sometimes it's
really good to be on the day, just
1128
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:18,320
focusing on your loved one, not
focusing on the logistics of how
1129
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:19,650
everything's going to come together.
1130
01:01:20,170 --> 01:01:21,440
I think there'll always be a need.
1131
01:01:22,245 --> 01:01:25,865
For some professional help,
guidance and support on that day
1132
01:01:25,895 --> 01:01:29,735
to give people that out, you know,
and take that pressure off them.
1133
01:01:29,975 --> 01:01:33,845
It's hard enough getting up to do a
eulogy, let alone running a service
1134
01:01:33,875 --> 01:01:37,395
and being, you know, making sure
everyone's turned up, number one,
1135
01:01:37,445 --> 01:01:40,485
when we get in there an hour and a
half before the service, you know, has
1136
01:01:40,485 --> 01:01:44,665
the priest arrived, you know, are the
musicians there, are they set up, does
1137
01:01:44,665 --> 01:01:48,905
the TV work, all those sorts of things
that we do, you know, well ahead of
1138
01:01:48,905 --> 01:01:50,555
time and the day is running up to it.
1139
01:01:50,555 --> 01:01:51,860
So, you know, but.
1140
01:01:51,860 --> 01:01:56,660
If people know what their choices
are and what's involved, they can
1141
01:01:56,660 --> 01:01:58,630
make really informed decisions.
1142
01:01:58,660 --> 01:02:01,040
And to me, that is absolutely key.
1143
01:02:02,580 --> 01:02:07,150
Catherine: And having, uh, run events
for 13 years, like, I totally agree
1144
01:02:07,150 --> 01:02:11,350
with you that people underestimate
the logistics and what happens
1145
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,080
behind the scenes, uh, to make it.
1146
01:02:14,130 --> 01:02:17,810
All flow very smoothly on the
day and you add emotions to that.
1147
01:02:17,810 --> 01:02:20,660
That can be quite, quite troublesome.
1148
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,920
But something that you were talking
about, you know, with the budgeting, is
1149
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,350
it something that they should also, if
they have a limited budget, they should,
1150
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:31,330
they should let the funeral director know.
1151
01:02:32,105 --> 01:02:33,275
Kelly: Absolutely.
1152
01:02:33,275 --> 01:02:36,705
And I think that's a really important
conversation because there's so, so many
1153
01:02:36,705 --> 01:02:40,655
things we can suggest to go, well, how
about doing this or what about doing that,
1154
01:02:40,685 --> 01:02:42,665
you know, that can minimize those costs.
1155
01:02:42,665 --> 01:02:46,375
Because as I said, some people think
you have to have this professionally
1156
01:02:46,375 --> 01:02:50,475
done or this professionally printed
or, and I'll say, if you've got a
1157
01:02:50,655 --> 01:02:52,445
teen in your family, guess what?
1158
01:02:52,445 --> 01:02:54,225
They can put together a
PowerPoint presentation.
1159
01:02:54,235 --> 01:02:58,875
Now it mightn't be to the, you know,
editing genius of a professional company.
1160
01:02:59,465 --> 01:03:03,915
But, where's your priority, you know,
it might be, and the other day I did
1161
01:03:03,915 --> 01:03:08,715
this for a family, they, I said, they
were on a property, and I said, didn't
1162
01:03:08,795 --> 01:03:09,805
you know your loved one like flower?
1163
01:03:09,805 --> 01:03:12,485
Oh, I wasn't really, I said, I'm
sure you've got some beautiful gum
1164
01:03:12,485 --> 01:03:14,995
leaves and some flowering gums and
everything, why don't we bring those,
1165
01:03:15,265 --> 01:03:20,235
oh, people love that, so, you know,
it's just teasing out that bit of
1166
01:03:20,235 --> 01:03:24,525
information so they don't feel like,
and again this comes back to what people
1167
01:03:24,535 --> 01:03:26,955
think they should do, say, or spend.
1168
01:03:27,425 --> 01:03:30,235
Oh, we should spend, because this
shows how much we love them if we buy
1169
01:03:30,525 --> 01:03:31,845
a thousand dollars worth of flowers.
1170
01:03:32,355 --> 01:03:33,075
No, it does not.
1171
01:03:33,875 --> 01:03:35,735
But for some people
that's very appropriate.
1172
01:03:35,835 --> 01:03:39,165
For some people who always bought flowers,
had flowers in their home, loved flowers.
1173
01:03:39,970 --> 01:03:44,490
A beautiful arrangement of flowers
in the coffin is absolutely perfect.
1174
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,290
For other people, that is not
what that curse is all about.
1175
01:03:48,370 --> 01:03:52,590
It would be sprigs from their garden,
you know, we've had pine cones on
1176
01:03:52,590 --> 01:03:55,630
a coffin with some wool fleece from
their, from their sheep at home.
1177
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,110
You know, it can be anything.
1178
01:03:57,730 --> 01:03:57,920
Yeah.
1179
01:03:59,030 --> 01:04:00,705
So it's I love that.
1180
01:04:00,965 --> 01:04:03,245
Letting people know everything's okay.
1181
01:04:03,275 --> 01:04:05,065
Don't think it's cutting corners.
1182
01:04:05,065 --> 01:04:06,495
It's actually personalizing.
1183
01:04:06,495 --> 01:04:08,015
It's bringing in touches of home.
1184
01:04:08,675 --> 01:04:12,505
And, you know, even having those beautiful
image wrapped personalized coffins now.
1185
01:04:12,565 --> 01:04:13,215
Oh my goodness.
1186
01:04:13,245 --> 01:04:17,525
People absolutely love those
because it can be anything you want.
1187
01:04:17,535 --> 01:04:18,605
It can be jelly beans.
1188
01:04:18,605 --> 01:04:20,865
It can be pictures of their dogs.
1189
01:04:20,895 --> 01:04:25,340
You know, it can be, um, You know, and
I think just having that to go and even
1190
01:04:26,180 --> 01:04:29,900
giving a lightness to a service where
people come and go, Oh, look at that.
1191
01:04:30,350 --> 01:04:32,880
I remember we had a funeral
for a lady who lived on a farm.
1192
01:04:33,050 --> 01:04:37,890
She was an older lady and, you know,
you'd think more, probably more would
1193
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:39,010
choose something more traditional.
1194
01:04:39,290 --> 01:04:42,070
And we had an image wrapped coffin
with a tractor on it because
1195
01:04:42,070 --> 01:04:43,285
she loved driving a tractor.
1196
01:04:43,865 --> 01:04:46,885
And whenever it came in, it was
the talking point of the day.
1197
01:04:47,005 --> 01:04:51,205
And I thought, that alone, you
know, don't spend it on the flowers.
1198
01:04:51,335 --> 01:04:55,815
That was much more fitting
for her, you know, so, yeah.
1199
01:04:56,795 --> 01:05:01,205
Catherine: And it's interesting because
it kind of reminds me about, you know,
1200
01:05:01,215 --> 01:05:05,315
when my sister perhaps got married in
the 80s, and it was still very much
1201
01:05:05,775 --> 01:05:08,855
white wedding, still to be expected.
1202
01:05:09,285 --> 01:05:10,925
Even though she had the.
1203
01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:17,400
the ceremony at home and, but, you know,
nowadays anything goes when it comes to
1204
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,430
a wedding and no one blinks an eyelid.
1205
01:05:19,980 --> 01:05:24,790
So it's like we need to, you know,
have the same mindset when we think of
1206
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:30,810
funerals that really whatever celebrates
that person who we're honoring goes
1207
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:31,350
Kelly: really.
1208
01:05:31,795 --> 01:05:32,915
Oh, absolutely.
1209
01:05:32,915 --> 01:05:35,215
I mean, think about, you know, we've
had them in shoeing sheds and the
1210
01:05:35,225 --> 01:05:40,035
coffins been on bales of, you know,
hay and, you know, in fantastic
1211
01:05:40,045 --> 01:05:41,825
yacht clubs and art galleries.
1212
01:05:41,825 --> 01:05:45,435
We've had it in a restaurant, you
know, it's where we can get permission,
1213
01:05:45,615 --> 01:05:46,755
you know, you can have a gathering.
1214
01:05:46,975 --> 01:05:51,345
And I think one of the other things
I've noticed about, you know, post
1215
01:05:51,345 --> 01:05:56,055
COVID, there was quite a few families
who quite loved that when it was down
1216
01:05:56,055 --> 01:05:58,285
to 10 or 20, quite that intimate feel.
1217
01:05:58,795 --> 01:06:03,040
And what I'm finding now, people are sort
of having Something they might be into,
1218
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,560
maybe it's the committal, maybe it's the,
the little service at the crematorium
1219
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,310
or the gravesite and it's just families,
they've got a little something just for
1220
01:06:09,310 --> 01:06:12,960
them, where they can let go a little bit
if they need to, and then they share that
1221
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,420
larger gathering with everyone else, but
still have maybe a private committal.
1222
01:06:16,690 --> 01:06:20,750
So they're doing that, the best of
both, because you're having that
1223
01:06:20,850 --> 01:06:24,390
bigger group, all that beautiful
support, all the sharing of memories.
1224
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:30,460
Stories and, you know, just the
physical support, the hugging, you
1225
01:06:30,460 --> 01:06:33,760
know, the people saying, I've got
you, you know, I'm here for you.
1226
01:06:34,210 --> 01:06:35,620
You can't replace that.
1227
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:37,930
So having that is really important.
1228
01:06:37,940 --> 01:06:41,280
I think it's more important than ever
as people feel more disconnected,
1229
01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:44,170
but then also having something
just for you and your family.
1230
01:06:44,170 --> 01:06:45,680
It might be the vigil the night before.
1231
01:06:45,730 --> 01:06:48,620
As I said, when we encourage that
come in the night before when it's
1232
01:06:48,620 --> 01:06:52,330
nice and quiet, it's just you guys
sit and play some favorite music.
1233
01:06:52,665 --> 01:06:55,515
Just have a little something for
yourself before that big day tomorrow
1234
01:06:55,735 --> 01:06:57,165
that you share with everyone else.
1235
01:06:57,455 --> 01:07:02,155
Because sometimes those closest don't
get their moments because it's so big.
1236
01:07:02,715 --> 01:07:06,635
So if you get something for yourself,
the thought of having something
1237
01:07:06,635 --> 01:07:08,365
a bit bigger isn't so daunting.
1238
01:07:09,505 --> 01:07:12,315
Catherine: Yes, I totally agree
with that because it can be very
1239
01:07:12,355 --> 01:07:14,145
overwhelming those large occasions.
1240
01:07:14,605 --> 01:07:14,935
Yes.
1241
01:07:15,585 --> 01:07:18,285
For me personally, you
know, in the last 12 months.
1242
01:07:18,810 --> 01:07:24,820
We know, um, of four families who
have had to crowdfund some aspect
1243
01:07:24,830 --> 01:07:26,550
of the funeral for their loved one.
1244
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,990
Is that something that you've seen
as an industry association and,
1245
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,840
and is it something that you're
looking at to address in some way?
1246
01:07:37,410 --> 01:07:37,930
I think
1247
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:41,830
Kelly: we put it this way, we absolutely
have seen it and I think people
1248
01:07:41,830 --> 01:07:44,230
crowdfund for lots of different reasons.
1249
01:07:45,660 --> 01:07:46,620
There is a need for it.
1250
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,100
You know, some people, as you said,
life can change in the blink of an eye.
1251
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:52,120
You're not prepared.
1252
01:07:52,330 --> 01:07:54,260
It's not something you spend
years going, I'll put a little
1253
01:07:54,260 --> 01:07:55,550
bit of money aside for that.
1254
01:07:55,940 --> 01:07:59,600
It can be at the most inopportune
moment financially for your
1255
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,050
family that that comes along.
1256
01:08:01,530 --> 01:08:04,900
And that's why I think, again,
having those conversations,
1257
01:08:04,900 --> 01:08:07,220
because in those situations,
you don't have time to prepare.
1258
01:08:07,220 --> 01:08:08,380
You haven't done the homework.
1259
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:09,700
You don't have time.
1260
01:08:09,700 --> 01:08:11,830
You feel like you've got to
make decisions really quickly.
1261
01:08:12,515 --> 01:08:17,425
And I would still say, even then,
even when it's very sudden, just stop.
1262
01:08:17,875 --> 01:08:21,185
And even if it's you not doing
that, getting that information, get
1263
01:08:21,195 --> 01:08:24,415
someone close to you, not someone
too close, but they can perhaps get
1264
01:08:24,415 --> 01:08:28,225
that information for you so you've
got the costs and the facts and the
1265
01:08:28,235 --> 01:08:29,845
choices in front of you, before you.
1266
01:08:30,375 --> 01:08:33,705
You're locked into something that you
think, Oh, actually, that's beyond me.
1267
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:38,990
It's really important to have those
conversations as a family first, before
1268
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:43,450
you even meet with a funeral director,
to say, let's be realistic and, you
1269
01:08:43,450 --> 01:08:45,040
know, what would our sister want?
1270
01:08:45,090 --> 01:08:46,320
What would our brother want?
1271
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,160
You know, this is the funds
that we've got available.
1272
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:53,640
Let's look around and see what we can
do for that and be really realistic.
1273
01:08:54,060 --> 01:08:56,550
And funeral directors will
absolutely understand.
1274
01:08:56,590 --> 01:08:58,130
In fact, that's much easier.
1275
01:08:58,885 --> 01:09:01,575
Having that information up
front to then go, Oh, great.
1276
01:09:01,635 --> 01:09:01,945
Okay.
1277
01:09:01,945 --> 01:09:03,055
This is what we can do.
1278
01:09:03,085 --> 01:09:05,555
And we can look at it
this way and that way.
1279
01:09:05,845 --> 01:09:09,015
So I think it's really good to have
those conversations and transparency
1280
01:09:09,015 --> 01:09:10,285
around costs is absolutely key.
1281
01:09:10,445 --> 01:09:15,735
I mean, we welcomed the, you know,
the IPART ACCC investigation to the
1282
01:09:15,735 --> 01:09:18,715
funeral industry, because you know,
we want people to be more open.
1283
01:09:18,875 --> 01:09:22,825
We want people to be able to know
exactly what they're Going to get
1284
01:09:22,975 --> 01:09:24,725
with, for those, for those choices.
1285
01:09:24,735 --> 01:09:28,825
So it's really important that people
aren't put under undue financial
1286
01:09:28,825 --> 01:09:32,445
strain on top of everything else
that comes with grief and loss.
1287
01:09:32,735 --> 01:09:34,735
So having those conversations
is really important.
1288
01:09:34,755 --> 01:09:39,495
So we're trying to be, do lots of
media and advocacy around transparency,
1289
01:09:39,535 --> 01:09:41,485
making sure costs are very easily.
1290
01:09:41,545 --> 01:09:45,205
So in Victoria, we have legislation
around having costs readily available.
1291
01:09:45,915 --> 01:09:50,155
If someone comes into your business,
there should be a cost sheet that you
1292
01:09:50,155 --> 01:09:51,705
can come and say, I want your cost sheet.
1293
01:09:51,745 --> 01:09:52,965
I mean, ours is on our website.
1294
01:09:53,025 --> 01:09:55,395
We're very open, you know,
about what our costs are.
1295
01:09:55,405 --> 01:09:59,665
And you'll find a lot of funeral directors
now do have their costs on their website.
1296
01:09:59,665 --> 01:10:03,995
So people can access that at any time
in the privacy of their own home.
1297
01:10:03,995 --> 01:10:06,665
I think some families do
stress when they come together.
1298
01:10:07,035 --> 01:10:09,525
Sometimes they come in together
for the first time at the funeral
1299
01:10:09,555 --> 01:10:13,855
director's home, and they've had a
chance to discuss how much money did
1300
01:10:13,855 --> 01:10:15,095
mum actually have in her account?
1301
01:10:15,770 --> 01:10:19,950
You know, and that, those sort of issues
can be fraught with danger as well.
1302
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:24,020
So having those conversations
before you make any decisions.
1303
01:10:24,425 --> 01:10:27,965
That's what I'd encourage people
to do because yes, there are
1304
01:10:28,005 --> 01:10:30,625
things like crowdfunding and things
like that available, which, you
1305
01:10:30,625 --> 01:10:32,055
know, a lot of people utilize.
1306
01:10:32,075 --> 01:10:37,755
And again, it's used for lots of different
life events that we're just not ready for.
1307
01:10:39,705 --> 01:10:43,845
Catherine: That's really good advice
about having those conversations.
1308
01:10:44,825 --> 01:10:48,355
Before you actually go and see
the funeral director, because as
1309
01:10:48,355 --> 01:10:52,485
you said, it may be the first time
they've seen each other in a long
1310
01:10:52,485 --> 01:10:54,955
time and that could be really awkward.
1311
01:10:55,495 --> 01:10:59,845
So, yep, taking that time out and
maybe having a coffee or lunch
1312
01:10:59,865 --> 01:11:01,625
beforehand and having a chat.
1313
01:11:01,945 --> 01:11:04,535
about those practicalities
is really good advice.
1314
01:11:04,705 --> 01:11:06,355
So thanks for that, Kelly.
1315
01:11:07,025 --> 01:11:11,785
Now, coming back to, you know, TJ
Scott and son funeral directors,
1316
01:11:11,845 --> 01:11:15,895
is there another generation that
with you and Daniel that might, you
1317
01:11:15,895 --> 01:11:18,695
know, join the, the family business?
1318
01:11:19,665 --> 01:11:23,015
Kelly: Oh, there's a few kids between us,
but I think we're going to take dad's.
1319
01:11:23,515 --> 01:11:29,625
Attitude and not even mention it and
just see where that, that may lie,
1320
01:11:30,455 --> 01:11:34,385
um, but certainly no pressure, you
know, hopefully Dan and I don't,
1321
01:11:34,385 --> 01:11:35,455
I'd love to still be working.
1322
01:11:35,485 --> 01:11:36,725
My dad isn't 75.
1323
01:11:36,795 --> 01:11:39,085
I mean, my grandparents were still
answering the phone in their eighties.
1324
01:11:39,525 --> 01:11:40,885
It's just one of those things to me.
1325
01:11:40,885 --> 01:11:41,785
It is a vocation.
1326
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:42,740
I can't help it.
1327
01:11:42,740 --> 01:11:43,910
I can't imagine not working.
1328
01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:46,800
So it's hopefully got
a few years left in me.
1329
01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:50,840
And I'd love to see, you know, it'd be
great to see one of the kids, even one
1330
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,160
of them to go show an interest, but
just to be understanding of what they
1331
01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:57,610
do, what we do and what's involved.
1332
01:11:57,940 --> 01:12:00,720
But I certainly wouldn't be
saying, Oh, who's coming in?
1333
01:12:00,730 --> 01:12:01,300
When are you coming in?
1334
01:12:01,860 --> 01:12:04,390
I would certainly say, have
your own life experience.
1335
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,300
First, I mean, my son's doing
chiropractic, so there's
1336
01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:08,650
absolutely no chance there.
1337
01:12:08,660 --> 01:12:11,660
He's, uh, very happy to be in health care.
1338
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,160
My daughter's studying psychology,
so you never know, but we'll wait and
1339
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,050
see, but yeah, I mean, it'd be lovely.
1340
01:12:18,060 --> 01:12:21,270
A lot of people ask us because they like
to know that that guarantee is there
1341
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:25,620
that we'll continue on, but yeah, who
knows what's ahead and we certainly,
1342
01:12:25,670 --> 01:12:29,170
I certainly wouldn't want any of them
to feel like they were pressured to
1343
01:12:29,170 --> 01:12:32,280
because we certainly weren't and I
feel like that's really important
1344
01:12:32,290 --> 01:12:33,750
because it's got to be a choice.
1345
01:12:34,145 --> 01:12:37,995
You know, not something that's
just handed on, just there it is.
1346
01:12:37,995 --> 01:12:40,865
I think you've really got to want it
and be in it for the right reasons.
1347
01:12:42,345 --> 01:12:44,615
Catherine: And tell me, have
you done anything to prepare
1348
01:12:44,655 --> 01:12:45,915
for your own death, Kelly?
1349
01:12:46,265 --> 01:12:47,045
Kelly: Oh, of course.
1350
01:12:47,045 --> 01:12:48,355
Funeral directors, of course, they do.
1351
01:12:49,655 --> 01:12:49,985
I have.
1352
01:12:50,275 --> 01:12:52,515
I always make notes and
I change it periodically.
1353
01:12:52,515 --> 01:12:55,535
You know, I'll go to a new venue
and go, Oh, that's a lovely venue.
1354
01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:57,955
I mean, you know, it's, it's funny.
1355
01:12:57,955 --> 01:12:59,555
And I come from a Catholic background.
1356
01:12:59,555 --> 01:12:59,925
And so.
1357
01:13:00,290 --> 01:13:02,930
Probably, you know, years ago,
it definitely would have been
1358
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:04,000
something quite different.
1359
01:13:04,350 --> 01:13:09,010
And, you know, as, as time goes
on, uh, it would have to involve.
1360
01:13:09,650 --> 01:13:11,710
Food and wine and
definitely me being there.
1361
01:13:11,740 --> 01:13:12,750
I wouldn't want to miss out.
1362
01:13:13,110 --> 01:13:17,520
So, so my family knows I will
be there for the last time.
1363
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:21,910
But yeah, I love the idea of having,
you know, something, you know, even
1364
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:25,010
if it was tomorrow, you know, a
very pragmatic event that we have
1365
01:13:25,010 --> 01:13:26,380
those conversations with our kids.
1366
01:13:26,740 --> 01:13:28,820
And there's certain things I've
said, this is what I'd like.
1367
01:13:29,210 --> 01:13:31,730
And there's something that I don't
care, you decide, because I want
1368
01:13:31,730 --> 01:13:32,830
them to be a part of that too.
1369
01:13:32,830 --> 01:13:36,840
I don't want to write, this is exactly
how it's going to be, because I understand
1370
01:13:37,150 --> 01:13:38,500
there'll be things that they all need.
1371
01:13:38,990 --> 01:13:41,960
And I'm very happy for them
to make those decisions.
1372
01:13:41,970 --> 01:13:45,600
So, as for the plays, as long as
I know there's good food and good
1373
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,120
wine, and there's good music,
and there's a little mixture of
1374
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,310
everything, I'll be quite happy.
1375
01:13:51,330 --> 01:13:52,800
Catherine: Oh, that sounds fantastic.
1376
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,980
And is there anything else that you'd
like to share, or any other advice
1377
01:13:56,980 --> 01:13:58,610
or encouragement you'd like to share?
1378
01:14:00,670 --> 01:14:00,950
Look,
1379
01:14:01,420 --> 01:14:04,750
Kelly: I always say, as I said, I've
been doing this 34 years now, coming
1380
01:14:04,750 --> 01:14:09,310
up in May, and I think the only
thing, I would never say to anyone
1381
01:14:09,310 --> 01:14:14,930
what to do or what not to do, my only
suggestion or advice is Take your time.
1382
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:16,210
Do not feel rushed.
1383
01:14:16,210 --> 01:14:20,790
There's absolutely no need to feel rushed,
whether it's before or at the time.
1384
01:14:21,070 --> 01:14:23,770
You know, sometimes the first question
is, ring your funeral director.
1385
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:25,070
When's the funeral director coming?
1386
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:27,890
And usually we, we can get on
the phone to the family and say,
1387
01:14:27,970 --> 01:14:29,450
are you actually ready for us?
1388
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:32,150
Would you like to wait until
some family members arrive
1389
01:14:32,150 --> 01:14:33,690
at the nursing home or home?
1390
01:14:34,340 --> 01:14:37,910
Just because it's happened doesn't
mean we have to come straight away.
1391
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:40,340
And it's like, you'd almost
hear that sigh of relief.
1392
01:14:40,350 --> 01:14:44,195
Um, you But someone else has been, you
know, let's go, you know, you've got
1393
01:14:44,195 --> 01:14:47,605
to make all those decisions because
that's what they think should be done.
1394
01:14:47,695 --> 01:14:53,185
So I would always just err on the
side of take your time, then take
1395
01:14:53,185 --> 01:14:54,405
your time to have the service.
1396
01:14:54,415 --> 01:14:55,855
It's nothing now to waste.
1397
01:14:56,310 --> 01:15:01,110
A week or two weeks for families to
gather from far and wide, even with
1398
01:15:01,180 --> 01:15:04,830
the, you know, we have live streaming
on so many funerals now, but for those
1399
01:15:04,870 --> 01:15:07,670
key people that have to be there,
allow time for them to get there.
1400
01:15:07,860 --> 01:15:11,370
You don't want them to arrive on the
morning of the funeral and be exhausted.
1401
01:15:11,610 --> 01:15:16,130
It's really important that they're
present emotionally as well as physically.
1402
01:15:16,540 --> 01:15:20,790
And I think just taking your time
because, you know, when I see families
1403
01:15:20,790 --> 01:15:22,670
go, Oh, we need to have it by the stage.
1404
01:15:23,150 --> 01:15:26,990
You can see the pressure that's on them
to, because they want all the photos put
1405
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:30,900
together and they want neulogies to be
done and, you know, I would err on the
1406
01:15:30,900 --> 01:15:36,220
side of just giving yourself lots of time,
lots of space to make those decisions.
1407
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,200
You know, talk to your funeral
director about the options first.
1408
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,700
You know, when we're meeting
with the family, say, let's
1409
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:42,840
meet tomorrow, not today.
1410
01:15:42,930 --> 01:15:44,040
It's just happened.
1411
01:15:44,350 --> 01:15:46,500
You know, whereas years ago, you'd
have people coming straight from
1412
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:48,580
the nursing home to your door
ready to arrange the funeral.
1413
01:15:48,810 --> 01:15:51,850
And again, just as we said, they
haven't had a chance to talk about what
1414
01:15:51,850 --> 01:15:53,470
they all need from this experience.
1415
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:55,290
So, take your time.
1416
01:15:55,330 --> 01:15:57,540
That's probably, I think,
the most important thing.
1417
01:15:57,810 --> 01:15:59,380
And ask for ideas.
1418
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:01,300
Be honest about your situation.
1419
01:16:01,310 --> 01:16:04,600
You might say, actually, we've got
a brother we're estranged from or
1420
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,870
an aunt that's gonna cause trouble.
1421
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:08,250
Okay, what does that mean?
1422
01:16:08,260 --> 01:16:09,680
How can we support that?
1423
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,840
Because we don't want you to stop
doing what you need to do because
1424
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:16,605
of these There's challenges because
they're in every single family.
1425
01:16:16,605 --> 01:16:17,895
I have not met one.
1426
01:16:18,515 --> 01:16:21,855
that hasn't had something going on
underneath the surface, you know,
1427
01:16:21,855 --> 01:16:23,135
even if they hide it really well.
1428
01:16:23,595 --> 01:16:28,625
But I think, be honest, and your
funerary is there to support you as
1429
01:16:28,625 --> 01:16:30,575
much as anything, to help you get there.
1430
01:16:30,585 --> 01:16:34,515
So, you know, you could come and
say, Oh, we want the funeral here.
1431
01:16:34,725 --> 01:16:36,835
You might say, Oh, have you
thought of any other options?
1432
01:16:36,845 --> 01:16:38,175
You know, think about that.
1433
01:16:38,185 --> 01:16:40,755
Don't think, Oh, we have to do
exactly the same as was done for our
1434
01:16:40,885 --> 01:16:43,415
grandparents or Generations before.
1435
01:16:43,655 --> 01:16:46,165
How can we make it really unique for them?
1436
01:16:46,185 --> 01:16:50,295
And it's sometimes it's those really
intangible, small little things.
1437
01:16:50,645 --> 01:16:53,935
Bits and pieces that make it
absolutely beautiful that people come
1438
01:16:53,935 --> 01:16:58,675
away uplifted from a funeral, even
in the most tragic circumstances.
1439
01:16:59,045 --> 01:17:00,455
It can be uplifting.
1440
01:17:00,455 --> 01:17:06,845
It can re, you know, reinforce
how important relationships are.
1441
01:17:06,865 --> 01:17:09,805
And I think when you see people come
away from a funeral like that, you think,
1442
01:17:09,845 --> 01:17:12,315
Oh, I've done something good today.
1443
01:17:12,575 --> 01:17:13,555
You know, I've helped.
1444
01:17:13,805 --> 01:17:14,705
Put that together.
1445
01:17:14,725 --> 01:17:18,385
So people have come away from there
going, I knew a little bit about
1446
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:19,935
Bill when I did before I came in.
1447
01:17:20,395 --> 01:17:21,215
And I love that.
1448
01:17:22,835 --> 01:17:23,465
Catherine: It is good.
1449
01:17:23,485 --> 01:17:28,785
I like, we actually went to a
memorial on, on the weekend and, and
1450
01:17:28,905 --> 01:17:34,405
I always find that I come away with
finding a richer story from someone
1451
01:17:34,475 --> 01:17:36,215
about the person that has passed.
1452
01:17:36,315 --> 01:17:38,765
So yeah, it is really lovely.
1453
01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:42,150
Kelly: Yeah, it's, it's
about making it special.
1454
01:17:42,150 --> 01:17:47,050
And yeah, they might look, look the same
a little bit, but really, as I said,
1455
01:17:47,070 --> 01:17:49,670
every family teaches us something new and.
1456
01:17:50,235 --> 01:17:53,765
You know, from that, you can create
something really beautiful and it is in
1457
01:17:53,765 --> 01:17:58,185
all those little touch points, I think,
and making sure everyone, those key people
1458
01:17:58,185 --> 01:18:02,645
around, the person that's died, those
key people, all contribute in some way.
1459
01:18:02,685 --> 01:18:06,995
And sometimes, you know, the art
of what we do is a lot of mediation
1460
01:18:06,995 --> 01:18:09,245
and, and teasing out of information.
1461
01:18:09,255 --> 01:18:13,235
When you've got a big group of, you know,
family coming to arrange a funeral, try
1462
01:18:13,235 --> 01:18:16,415
to engage that quiet one over there in
the corner and say, What do you think?
1463
01:18:16,415 --> 01:18:18,485
Have you thought of any,
what about music for you?
1464
01:18:18,485 --> 01:18:21,355
Have you thought of any songs
trying to, you know, bring
1465
01:18:21,355 --> 01:18:22,585
them into the conversation?
1466
01:18:22,585 --> 01:18:24,295
Because there's always the loudest voice.
1467
01:18:24,295 --> 01:18:27,440
There's always someone that's the
dominant one, and often they Yeah, sure.
1468
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:27,880
You see that.
1469
01:18:28,215 --> 01:18:28,605
Yeah.
1470
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:31,215
And sometimes they have to be, you
know, because they're, they're the
1471
01:18:31,215 --> 01:18:34,715
family organizer and the family wouldn't
be the same without those people.
1472
01:18:35,125 --> 01:18:38,035
But, you know, sometimes those
quiet voices also need to be
1473
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:39,745
heard to make sure that everyone.
1474
01:18:40,275 --> 01:18:43,215
Plays a part in it because I think
that's really really important.
1475
01:18:45,155 --> 01:18:48,585
Catherine: Well, look, I think that
that's a wonderful note to to leave
1476
01:18:48,585 --> 01:18:53,475
on Kelly I can't thank you enough
for Being our guest today and thank
1477
01:18:53,475 --> 01:18:55,265
you so much for speaking with us.
1478
01:18:55,545 --> 01:18:56,545
Kelly: Oh, thanks Catherine.
1479
01:18:56,545 --> 01:18:59,635
Thanks for what you're doing I think
these conversations are amazing.
1480
01:18:59,945 --> 01:19:02,865
And I think what you do is
critical info is just incredible.
1481
01:19:02,875 --> 01:19:03,505
So well done.
1482
01:19:04,325 --> 01:19:04,675
Catherine: Thank you
1483
01:19:04,675 --> 01:19:04,865
Kelly: so
1484
01:19:04,865 --> 01:19:05,335
Catherine: much
1485
01:19:07,825 --> 01:19:11,235
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,
1486
01:19:11,555 --> 01:19:13,125
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1487
01:19:14,075 --> 01:19:18,335
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1488
01:19:18,335 --> 01:19:20,265
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1489
01:19:20,435 --> 01:19:22,835
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1490
01:19:22,975 --> 01:19:25,715
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1491
01:19:25,935 --> 01:19:30,110
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1492
01:19:30,110 --> 01:19:31,820
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1493
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:33,470
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1494
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:34,580
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1495
01:19:34,580 --> 01:19:38,540
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1496
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