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About this episode
Join us as we dive deep with Kristy and James Thomas, the compassionate founders of 'Feel the Magic,' an organisation dedicated to helping grieving children across Australia. Their journey began from personal losses and has blossomed into a nationwide initiative that offers solace and healing through unique camps and programs.
Here's what we covered:
The Birth of Feel the Magic: Hear how a personal tragedy led to the creation of a beacon of hope for grieving children.
The Magic of Grief Camps: Explore the transformative experiences these camps offer, combining emotional support with empowering activities.
Grieving as a Community: Learn about the community's role in supporting bereaved children and the innovative ways 'Feel the Magic' brings people together.
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
![Podcast Guest - Image](https://criticalinfo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Founders-Image.jpg)
Founders - Feel The Magic
James and Kristy Thomas founded Feel the Magic in 2013, driven by their personal experiences with grief and a mission to make sure no Australian child goes through grief alone.
Both James and Kristy know first-hand how hard it is to heal after a loved one dies- James having experienced the death of both his father and mother, and Kristy the death of her brother.
Working with mental health experts to develop the evidence-based camps, strategies and resources that Feel the Magic delivers, James and Kristy are dedicated to helping grieving kids heal – no matter where they live in Australia, from the city to the most isolated rural towns.
Summary
Key Points from Our Conversation:
- Understanding Grief: Kristy and James share insights into how grief can become a catalyst for growth and community building.
- The Role of Camps: Details on how their camps provide a safe space for children to express their grief and learn coping mechanisms.
- Expanding Support: The introduction of virtual programs to reach grieving children in remote areas, ensuring no child grieves alone.
Transcript
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Kristy: Working with so many families and
the families that I see that really thrive
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beyond grief is the families where the
parent is addressing their grief because
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no matter what else happens at least the
child's being modeled healthy grieving.
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Also the children have that have all of
the information do better in their grief.
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00:0 ... Read More
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Kristy: Working with so many families and
the families that I see that really thrive
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00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:12,699
beyond grief is the families where the
parent is addressing their grief because
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no matter what else happens at least the
child's being modeled healthy grieving.
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Also the children have that have all of
the information do better in their grief.
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So if there's anything that's any
information that's withheld or that's
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maybe really sensitive around the
topic of how they died and they
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don't have all of the information
throughout time that just escalates.
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Catherine: Welcome to
Don't Be Caught Dead.
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A podcast encouraging open conversations
about dying and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to life.
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Because while you may not be ready
to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations
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and recognises their connection
to land, sea, and community.
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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging, and extend
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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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James and Christy Thomas founded Feel
the Magic in 2013, driven by their
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personal experiences with grief and
a mission to make sure no Australian
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child goes through grief alone.
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Both James and Christy know
first hand what How hard it is
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to heal after a loved one dies.
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James, having experienced the death of
both his father and mother and Christie's,
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the death of her brother, working with
mental health experts to develop the
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evidence based camps, strategies, and
resources that feel the magic delivers
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James and Christie are dedicated to
helping grieving kids heal, no matter
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where they live in Australia, from the
city to the most isolated rural towns.
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Thanks for joining me.
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Hey, Christy and James,
welcome to the show.
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Thank you.
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Thanks for having us.
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Thanks for having us.
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Now tell me, most people work through
their grief in their own way, but most
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people don't start a charity and a
camp for children who are grieving.
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How on earth did this come about?
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James: Oh, you want to start Christy?
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That's a long
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Kristy: story.
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Recommended would be my first
statement to most people don't do that.
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But I will, I'll let James start because,
uh, it really was his, it founded out
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of his idea and we sort of ran with it.
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So I'll hand it over to you, James.
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James: Okay.
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Well, I guess from my point of view,
starting a charity, I thought of the
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idea of Feel the Magic in the happiest
place on earth, which was Disneyland.
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That was back in 2012.
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And I remember, and I was, you know,
I'm sure we'll get into the story,
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but grieving the loss of my mum,
selling my business, we ended up
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finding ourselves in, in America
for, for a month and Disneyland was
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on that, on that, uh, itinerary.
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And it was there where I just
thought of this idea to help kids
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who are, who are grieving to, to
send them and their family on a, on
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a beautiful trip to, to Disneyland.
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Just a, you know, just a feel good thing
to do from there, come back, worked at
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it, it evolved into this charity and
it just felt like I had no idea about
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charity other than donating to them.
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But it just felt like everything
fell into place quite smoothly, even
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our, you know, our DGR status, the
deductible gift recipient status
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that fell into place quite quickly.
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And I was just this, knowing
within me that we were on the
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right path and this had to happen.
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And, I don't know, it's hard to, you
know, whether it's intuition or why,
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but I just knew that this thing had to
grow, and we had to persist with it.
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We weren't really aware of
the work that it would take.
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And in hindsight, looking back,
it probably was one of the most
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enjoyable parts of my, my career, so
to speak, you know, there's, there's
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a lot of sacrifices that need to
be made, but why start a charity?
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Don't know.
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I just think it just fell into place.
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And we just knew that this thing
had to, had to be on, you know,
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it's still one of our goals since,
since way back then is this feel
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the magic would be a household name.
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The Grieving Families.
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That's, that's our,
that's our ultimate goal.
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Catherine: And tell me about the name.
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Where did the name come from?
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James: Yeah, look, I guess, you know,
discovering the idea in, in, in Disneyland
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is the whole, the whole place is magical.
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I don't know if you've been there
yourself, but it's just, I guess for me,
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it's, it's one of those places where it
took me straight back to my childhood.
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Going through what I went through, losing
mum on my birthday, walking through
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Disneyland, just, just took me back to
being a kid with my parents watching.
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We all grew up in Disney, I guess.
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Uh, you know, seeing characters
that I completely forgot about,
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hearing songs from movies that
I completely forgot about.
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And I just knew in that moment I was, I
was in the right place at the right time.
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So there was magic in the air.
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So when we come up with the idea, we come
home and we were writing down names and we
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just knew the word magic had to be in it.
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That was, that was without question.
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And it was coming up, you know,
with, with words to surround that.
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And we stumbled across feel the magic.
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And we just went, yeah,
that's, that's it because.
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I guess in Disneyland you are feeling
the magic and in some sort of way
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there is magic to come from grief.
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I mean as that sounds a little bit more
morbid, but if you really, grief is the
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hardest thing you're ever going to go
through as a human being in my humble
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opinion and if you can Embrace that,
work through it, and when I say work
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through it, you know, feel it, live it,
express it, all the, all the hard stuff
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that we've, I guess we've been, we've
been taught to avoid, there is magic
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on the other side, whether that's, you
know, meeting a brand new community
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like Feel the Magic, or whether it's
just, you know, knowing full well in
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yourself that you've overcome the hardest
thing you'll ever go through in your
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life, and nothing else seems to, you
know, We'll seem to bother you now.
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That's the message we
portray with our kids anyway,
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Catherine: and when you were
walking through Disneyland during
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that time Did it remind you all of
those memories of when you were a
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kid and when it were you were safe?
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And yeah, the world was like like
you saying magical, you know,
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James: yeah Yeah, you took the
words right out of my mouth.
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Safe is exactly how I felt.
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It almost felt like a warm blanket walking
through Disneyland because it was that,
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the safety of sitting on the lounge
with mum and daddy at the side of me.
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And I'm an only child, so
there was just the three of us.
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There was nothing better.
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And even as a, even as a father now,
the movie nights are, quite a special
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thing because I remember them, you
know, like they were yesterday.
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So I'd like to pass that down to my boys.
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But there is that, you know, safety
is a, is a beautiful word to use.
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Catherine: Yeah, that's,
that's really beautiful.
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And it evokes a really lovely imagery.
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And you, you both alluded to the fact
that there's been challenging times.
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So you're just about to celebrate
your 10th anniversary next year.
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So how has the camp
evolved during that time?
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And, and what programs do you now offer?
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Kristy: I'll take that one.
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So we started with Disneyland trips.
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We called them magic journeys and
what we realized was that each of
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the families that were going on the
journey and coming back, they were
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actually getting so much value out of
creating their own little community.
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So in the end we sent overall 14
families to the Disney experience
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and they all just became this
beautiful tight knit community.
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And we started to think, Oh, how can
we best make impact with the funds that
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we're raising to support these families?
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And that's where Camp Magic was born.
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So Camp Magic was our signature program.
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It's two and a half days of grief
education for kids, age seven to 17.
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And basically The camp, they come
to camp and they're matched with an
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adult mentor for the whole duration
of camp and that volunteer will then
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sort of sit beside them throughout
their process, throughout the weekend.
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So, The weekend's sort of broken up
into sections of psycho educational
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therapeutic sessions where they learn
about healthy grieving, uh, in particular
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self soothing tools and emotional
regulation type activities, and they
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get to connect with other kids just
like them, which is really important.
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So we, we do that, but then we sort
of, Cuddle each of those sessions
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with team building activities, rock
climbing or canoeing or high rope type
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activities in a recreational setting.
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So they're having a lot
of fun at the same time.
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So they're just, you know,
connecting with each other.
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And most kids will say they've
never met any other kids before.
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that are like them.
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So they feel quite
isolated in their grief.
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So coming to camp, they just meet,
you know, upwards of 60 other
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kids who are similar to them.
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And it, it can just change their, their
world to go, Oh, I'm not the only one.
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Oh, there's other people going
through the same thing as me.
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So that, that was what we
did for quite a few years.
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I think five years, we
were solid camp magic.
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We did them in New South Wales.
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We expanded out to ACT and then Victoria.
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And then We decided that we wanted to
introduce other programs because we
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knew we could provide more support.
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So Camp Magic became so popular
that we couldn't service all of
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the kids that wanted to come.
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So we introduced all the same camp.
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Yeah.
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Becoming
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Catherine: too popular.
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Kristy: Becoming too popular.
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Yeah.
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Because it's one in 20 kids
who will lose a parent.
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Uh, before the age of 18 here in
Australia, which is a high number.
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And we support kids who have lost a
sibling as well as a parent or guardian.
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So that's, those figures are huge.
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And that's, that's not
including sibling loss.
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So it would be significantly
higher, I would imagine.
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And then when they come to camp.
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They, they have this amazing
experience and what we wanted to do
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then was offer other opportunities
for them to just connect.
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It's just really important for them to
have relationships in the community.
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So we have now a one day camp
that lots of kids come to first.
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So their first interaction with
us is come to a family day camp.
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The whole family comes, we give them a
little bit of grief education, we give
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them lots of connection, we have some
family time, we do arts, we do music, but
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generally speaking they'll leave feeling
lighter and happier than they came.
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And then, uh, we also during COVID
introduced online program, which is
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called our Hopefully Grieving program.
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It's delivered four hours
online over a weekend period.
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So they'll do two one hour sessions
on Saturday and two on Sunday.
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And, uh, that also goes a little bit more
in depth into our therapeutic processes.
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So then by the time they get to
Camp Magic, they've had two, one or
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two interactions with us already.
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And so that process into Camp Magic
is much smoother because They're
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comfortable with us already, they're
familiar with some of our processes
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already, and so they're, you know, kind
of firing, ready to go, whereas most
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kids, sorry, not most kids, but a lot of
kids who are grieving really experience
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separation anxiety from either their
surviving parent or their family because
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unfortunately they're fearful of death.
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So,
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yeah, so we've kind of expanded out
so that we can provide more support.
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Obviously we have a million other things
that we would love to do, but it's
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all, you know, fundraising is hard.
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It's difficult.
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So we're just, we've grown.
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We've got lots of kids and we've
got endless amounts of kids wanting
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to come to our camp magic program.
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So that's how much we've, what
we've achieved in those 10 years.
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That is
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Catherine: a lot that you've
achieved in those 10 years.
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And tell me when you've modified
the program for having that sort
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of a small, you know, bite size
introduction to feel the magic.
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And then when they actually come on a,
on a camp, what has been the difference
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that you've seen with, with just changing
the way in which you've programmed.
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Oh,
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Kristy: huge difference.
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And I put it down to a couple
of things that we've introduced.
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Back in the day when we had our
first ever Camp Magix, it was all me.
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I was the intake person.
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I was the point of contact.
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I was the person on camp who looked
after everything logistically.
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And now we have a team
that work in that area.
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So We also have a
psychologist who's on call.
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So what happens is when a family
is in taken into our community,
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they just get much more thorough.
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We get more thorough information
on who they are, what their
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needs are, and specifically.
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We kind of really get detailed information
so that when we do get to Camp Magic
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the difference because they've come
through that process is there's a
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lot less heightened kids at a camp.
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There's no surprises because we know
the kids, we know what to expect because
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we've already had those interactions
whereas sometimes in the past going in
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blindly we'd be having to manage a lot
of different kinds of things because
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we didn't have all the information so.
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You know, that growth is so imperative
to the safety of the child and.
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and have such a positive
experience for the parent
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guardian who's grieving as well.
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So it's not just the kids
who are, who are struggling.
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Catherine: Yeah.
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And until we just, where does that
process start where it's the, the
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one day camp when the family comes?
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So is it, is it the virtual
program then that or just one
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Kristy: or the other, depending on.
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The availability of programs
coming up throughout the year.
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So with a healthy grieving program,
that's the online one, that one, we can
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guarantee you'd get into within a three
month period because we have a program
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every month, different age groups.
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So that means that that's.
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which can be accessed really quickly
and then the family day camps are
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more spread out because we have
more participants on the day.
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So it would be either one or the other
and if a parent is concerned about doing
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it online they'll wait for the family
day camp so they can all come together.
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Catherine: Yeah, wow.
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And tell me, how big's
the team now, Christy?
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Oh gosh, exactly.
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Kristy: Why don't I know?
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Um, is it eight of us,
I think we have, James?
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James: Uh, yeah, about that.
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On a volunteer basis, in the hundreds.
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Kristy: Yeah, so there's eight in a team.
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Most of us work part time, so we
all, You know, do a few days here
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and there, but then our volunteers.
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So at any one camp, we would have
upwards of 70 volunteers who lead
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the program, mentor the kids, as
well as all of the facilitation that
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happens over the weekend, they're
all trained volunteers as well.
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So, uh, it's an incredible team
that we have majority of volunteers.
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At this point.
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Catherine: That's phenomenal.
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And, and tell me, you'd have to have
a program for those volunteers and
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you'd have to recruit those volunteers.
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Tell me about that process, because
that in itself is a job alone.
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Yes,
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Kristy: it really is.
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Recruitment is a process.
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We've sort of gone a couple of avenues,
one being partnering with organizations.
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So we've partnered with a couple
of corporates over the years who
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donate funds and then in return they
send their employees to come and
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have this incredible experience.
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So that's part of a recruitment plan.
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We've also partnered with two separate
universities, one here in Sydney.
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New South Wales and one in Victoria,
Monash University, where we have the
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psychology students come and mentor as
part of collecting hours of their service.
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But that's been great.
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But what's even better is
those students come back.
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So they do their hours.
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And then we seem to be retaining a
lot of them just based on, they're
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obviously having a really positive
experience and they come again.
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So our biggest issue I would
say is recruitment of males.
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We find quite difficult.
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That's always
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Catherine: a bit of a push to each camp.
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And why do you think
that that is a challenge?
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I think, I think there's many
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James: reasons.
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From a male's perspective, I think,
the fear of being alone with kids,
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I think that would scare you.
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Yeah, I guess the responsibility,
work, being away from your own family.
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However, with the, with the training
we do provide our mentors, they're,
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they're fully equipped and when they
go into camp, they know the rule of
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three, they're quite, they're quite
supported in, in any of their fears
300
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or concerns that they may have.
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Catherine: And so tell me what
was that, the rule of three?
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James: Rule of three.
303
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,860
So you're never ever to
be alone with your camper.
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So if, for example, if I was.
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My little camper, Johnny,
needed to go to the bathroom.
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I wouldn't just go up
and take him by myself.
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I would actually ask another mentor
and their camper to come with us.
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And it's quite strict.
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The culture we've built,
everyone sticks to that.
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And if, if anyone doesn't, then
they are immediately reported.
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00:18:25,594 --> 00:18:29,010
So it's not dobbing, it's actually
doing the right thing by The
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00:18:29,010 --> 00:18:30,610
mentors and the kids themselves.
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00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:35,000
Catherine: And so, you know, you've
got, I suppose for you, you've got that
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00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,749
added layer of those concerns and that's
already on top of the concerns that
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00:18:40,749 --> 00:18:44,729
people have and the awkwardness people
have about grief and talking about death.
316
00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:50,750
So your, your, your volunteer
program must be quite intensive
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00:18:50,850 --> 00:18:52,360
when you're providing that training.
318
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,740
And so your volunteers
are then known as mentors.
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Is that right?
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00:18:56,145 --> 00:18:56,815
James: That's correct.
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00:18:56,975 --> 00:18:59,825
Yeah, so they go through a, well
actually Christy, I'll let you
322
00:18:59,835 --> 00:19:01,875
explain that because it's been a
while since I've been doing mentor
323
00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:04,585
training, but yeah, they're definitely,
they're definitely well equipped.
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00:19:05,995 --> 00:19:12,335
Kristy: Yeah, over the years we've been,
we've built on that volunteer recruitment
325
00:19:12,384 --> 00:19:13,894
in the way that we bring them in.
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00:19:13,924 --> 00:19:18,464
So firstly, they have to get
all of their checks done.
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where they're required to have a hundred
points of ID signed by the JP, which I
328
00:19:24,665 --> 00:19:28,295
know can be a barrier for a lot of people
coming in straight off the bat, because
329
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it does require you to go and get, do
something that's not easy, uh, but we
330
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require it because we absolutely, like,
child protection to us is number one.
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Because if we let anything slip,
then we won't be able to do
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this work, which is so needed.
333
00:19:45,555 --> 00:19:49,965
So they have to go through that
rigorous identification process.
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00:19:50,004 --> 00:19:53,705
Then they're required to always
have a working with children check
335
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or equivalent to their state.
336
00:19:56,054 --> 00:19:58,125
I think it's a blue card in other States.
337
00:19:58,855 --> 00:20:03,335
And then they also need to update
their national criminal history check
338
00:20:03,705 --> 00:20:06,445
every 12 months, which requires them.
339
00:20:06,504 --> 00:20:09,375
They need to have one
valid every 12 months.
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And then.
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They are required to complete an
online e learning course, which takes
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00:20:16,565 --> 00:20:19,944
anywhere from sort of 45 minutes
to an hour and a half for them to
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complete, which addresses really sort
of key elements like child protection,
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00:20:26,605 --> 00:20:32,025
disclosure, how to keep themselves
safe, what to say to a grieving child,
345
00:20:32,515 --> 00:20:35,085
really, really detailed information.
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So then when they show up for the face to
face, we deliver it online and in person.
347
00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:45,709
Uh, training, which goes for about five
hours, uh, they're already equipped
348
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:47,449
with all that backhand knowledge.
349
00:20:47,459 --> 00:20:50,859
So then when they come into training,
they can actually have a real experience
350
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of what it's going to be like at camp.
351
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:58,549
So we, we show them, uh, some
of the activities that they'll
352
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participate with the kids.
353
00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:03,779
We talk about emotional
literacy and what that means.
354
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We go hard in on self care because
we know it's important for them to
355
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,810
be looking after themselves first
before they can support a child.
356
00:21:13,710 --> 00:21:15,320
And then they're ready for camp.
357
00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:22,550
And then pre camp they do, uh, lots
of meetings, but they start, they
358
00:21:22,550 --> 00:21:29,020
can start as a mentor, but we do have
other sort of leadership positions
359
00:21:29,020 --> 00:21:30,920
that they can then move into.
360
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So after they've done a few camps, so we
have other opportunities for mentors to
361
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then grow in the space of volunteering.
362
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:45,049
So we can sort of upskill them to become
facilitators or leaders of our, program.
363
00:21:45,189 --> 00:21:50,729
So at camps, and then we also train
them to be facilitators online.
364
00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:57,620
So yeah, we really provide a place for
them if they want to just stay being
365
00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,089
a mentor, that's absolutely fine.
366
00:21:59,089 --> 00:22:03,439
But if they want to grow into something
and really give back, then there's an
367
00:22:03,889 --> 00:22:10,764
opportunity as well, which we've found
Has been really beneficial for them
368
00:22:10,774 --> 00:22:16,265
because honestly, it's so good for
their, a lot of them work corporately
369
00:22:16,265 --> 00:22:20,955
and then they say to me, this is a
place where I can come and I know I'm
370
00:22:20,955 --> 00:22:23,745
making a difference outside of my job.
371
00:22:24,564 --> 00:22:26,985
And it looks great on their resume.
372
00:22:28,045 --> 00:22:32,545
And I do know lots of people have
moved into jobs that they probably
373
00:22:32,545 --> 00:22:35,275
wouldn't have looked at if they
weren't volunteers for Filmagic.
374
00:22:35,715 --> 00:22:41,149
So, Yeah, I love that we have
that progression for them as well.
375
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:44,629
Catherine: Yeah, and that's just
something that really interests me.
376
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:49,080
Um, I've worked with volunteers
in my previous role at the Royal
377
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,860
Botanic Gardens and, and um, that's
something that is always a challenge
378
00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:56,084
is to be able to provide that.
379
00:22:56,085 --> 00:23:00,655
That progression, because really a lot
of the roles that volunteers are engaged
380
00:23:00,655 --> 00:23:04,805
for, there isn't that career progression
or, or that ability to step up.
381
00:23:05,125 --> 00:23:08,235
So that's amazing that, that you
can provide that opportunity.
382
00:23:10,685 --> 00:23:15,975
So, so tell me, all Liam, all
relationships have their challenges.
383
00:23:16,034 --> 00:23:19,964
You're married and also obviously
co founders of, of feel the magic.
384
00:23:19,965 --> 00:23:23,695
How do we ensure that you have,
you know, you talked about self
385
00:23:23,695 --> 00:23:25,435
care with the volunteers earlier.
386
00:23:25,964 --> 00:23:27,375
How do you ensure about.
387
00:23:27,675 --> 00:23:31,895
Boundaries and what stays
professional, private and, and
388
00:23:31,895 --> 00:23:33,725
allow time for your own self care.
389
00:23:34,415 --> 00:23:35,115
James: I'll start then.
390
00:23:35,225 --> 00:23:40,844
I think in the early days, there's no such
thing because you started it from home.
391
00:23:41,475 --> 00:23:41,634
No
392
00:23:41,734 --> 00:23:42,324
Kristy: such thing as
393
00:23:42,324 --> 00:23:42,834
James: boundaries.
394
00:23:43,984 --> 00:23:47,994
Or from a working, are you talking
about separating work and personal life?
395
00:23:48,474 --> 00:23:50,825
Kristy: It was all
intertwined in the beginning.
396
00:23:50,825 --> 00:23:51,095
Yeah.
397
00:23:51,705 --> 00:23:53,455
There's no start or end.
398
00:23:53,715 --> 00:23:55,125
It's just all encompassing.
399
00:23:55,465 --> 00:23:55,774
James: Yeah.
400
00:23:55,945 --> 00:23:56,915
So feel the magic.
401
00:23:58,545 --> 00:24:01,185
We immersed ourselves in Feel
the Magic, especially for the, at
402
00:24:01,185 --> 00:24:03,645
least the first five, six years.
403
00:24:03,695 --> 00:24:05,955
It was, we lived and breathed it.
404
00:24:06,075 --> 00:24:07,445
It was in our house.
405
00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:10,544
It was, you know, we had
volunteers stay at our house.
406
00:24:10,544 --> 00:24:11,774
We had a garage full.
407
00:24:12,645 --> 00:24:14,415
Just over time, it evolved.
408
00:24:14,415 --> 00:24:18,894
And, you know, I always tell
people when, when we had the office
409
00:24:18,894 --> 00:24:22,875
downstairs in our old house in
Sydney, you'd have to walk past the
410
00:24:22,875 --> 00:24:24,335
office to go upstairs to go to bed.
411
00:24:24,335 --> 00:24:27,885
And so many times I'd be walking past
and you'd hear the email notification.
412
00:24:27,885 --> 00:24:29,105
You go, Oh, I'll just quickly check that.
413
00:24:30,245 --> 00:24:34,445
And then an hour and a half later, you're
like, Oh God, I'm going to go to bed now.
414
00:24:34,875 --> 00:24:36,465
You know, that, that sort of stuff.
415
00:24:36,465 --> 00:24:40,344
I think, I think in any bit, whether
it's a nonprofit or a business, you've
416
00:24:40,344 --> 00:24:41,685
got to, you've just got to do that.
417
00:24:41,854 --> 00:24:44,644
I think if you want to want to be
successful or you want your business
418
00:24:44,654 --> 00:24:49,954
to be successful, you've got to get in,
get your hands dirty from a, I guess,
419
00:24:49,965 --> 00:24:54,435
from a, an emotional standpoint, I think
as, as we've matured and we've, we've
420
00:24:55,014 --> 00:24:58,784
got our own little family now, I think
there is that there's many times where
421
00:24:58,784 --> 00:25:00,215
Christie will say, Hey, that's enough.
422
00:25:00,215 --> 00:25:01,165
Now we won't talk about it.
423
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:03,840
at dinner and then we won't talk about it.
424
00:25:04,570 --> 00:25:09,750
Uh, I think it's just having those
strict rules in place because And
425
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:12,320
actually for me i've been away for the
last couple of years away from feel
426
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,019
the magic all together So I think I
think that made the the talking about
427
00:25:17,019 --> 00:25:21,640
feel the magic a lot easier as well Not
talking about feel the magic a lot easier
428
00:25:22,709 --> 00:25:26,470
Kristy: Yeah, and do you think the crux
of it was we found it really difficult
429
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:34,275
in the in the beginning to But I think
as we had Two small kids, we realize,
430
00:25:34,385 --> 00:25:37,155
oh, we have to switch this off sometimes.
431
00:25:37,155 --> 00:25:41,814
And now we're much better
at drawing the line.
432
00:25:44,075 --> 00:25:48,794
And I would say we work well
together and we always have
433
00:25:48,794 --> 00:25:53,634
done, because we have completely
separate roles within our business.
434
00:25:54,935 --> 00:26:01,995
I was Programs and People and James was
Fundraising and Relationships with, uh,
435
00:26:02,034 --> 00:26:09,735
Philanthropists and you know, out, out
speaking about philomagic, so yeah, we
436
00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:12,204
just, we just made it work, didn't we?
437
00:26:13,445 --> 00:26:15,635
James: Yeah, and I think that, I think
you highlighted the important thing is
438
00:26:15,645 --> 00:26:18,095
having your own roles, not crossing paths.
439
00:26:18,195 --> 00:26:22,005
Like if I was trying to do programs
and Christopher's trying to do parts of
440
00:26:22,005 --> 00:26:24,845
fundraising, or we're trying to tell each
other how to do our jobs, it would have
441
00:26:25,574 --> 00:26:29,485
erupted many times over, but I think we,
I think we just stayed in our own lane and
442
00:26:29,545 --> 00:26:32,074
supported each other when we needed to.
443
00:26:32,125 --> 00:26:35,285
But again, in high, I think, I think our
priorities changed really, sorry, our
444
00:26:35,445 --> 00:26:38,775
priorities really changed once we had
the small, once we had new, new babies.
445
00:26:39,905 --> 00:26:40,785
I think you realize that.
446
00:26:42,135 --> 00:26:44,495
Time is precious and I do need your time.
447
00:26:44,595 --> 00:26:49,855
So I think if I speak for myself
organically, I kind of didn't want to be
448
00:26:50,715 --> 00:26:52,425
answering emails at 11 o'clock at night
449
00:26:52,975 --> 00:26:53,035
Kristy: I
450
00:26:53,035 --> 00:26:55,745
James: wanted to be in bed because
I needed to get up the next morning
451
00:26:55,745 --> 00:27:00,314
because my One of my boys would have been
waking up early and again maturity and
452
00:27:00,644 --> 00:27:06,215
yeah comes with maturity and time and
circumstances I guess but yeah, i'll never
453
00:27:06,215 --> 00:27:10,415
regret the effort we put in Especially
those first few because you need to do
454
00:27:10,415 --> 00:27:13,770
that And like I said, in any business or
charity, you have to put in the hard work.
455
00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:20,990
Catherine: That's, that's something that
is, yeah, is, is really impressive is
456
00:27:20,990 --> 00:27:25,869
that, that commitment at that early stage,
because if you hadn't actually put that
457
00:27:25,869 --> 00:27:28,050
commitment in, do you think you would
458
00:27:28,060 --> 00:27:29,080
James: be where you are today?
459
00:27:30,295 --> 00:27:36,125
No, because, no, not at all, because
there was many times, there wasn't, there
460
00:27:36,125 --> 00:27:37,645
wasn't, sorry, let me rephrase that.
461
00:27:38,575 --> 00:27:42,245
There wasn't a day where we thought,
this isn't working, let's stop.
462
00:27:42,895 --> 00:27:45,184
But there were plenty of days
of going, this is, this is
463
00:27:45,185 --> 00:27:47,045
hard, should we keep going?
464
00:27:47,875 --> 00:27:51,985
And again, starting a charity,
there's no, there's no money in it.
465
00:27:52,375 --> 00:27:58,110
If this was our business, we'd be, very
happy, very happy with the outcome.
466
00:27:58,389 --> 00:28:03,159
But we're, I guess our reward is, is the
difference we've, we've made, so to speak.
467
00:28:03,159 --> 00:28:06,770
So it is a, I think going back to
what I originally said at the start,
468
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:10,759
that, that knowing that this, I to
explain that knowing that you're on
469
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:15,030
the right journey doing something and
just to trust and keep going with it.
470
00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:16,850
It's a feeling I haven't had
471
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,040
much in my whole life.
472
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,990
I just think this, this needed to be done.
473
00:28:23,090 --> 00:28:24,389
Kristy: It was, and it was quite a few.
474
00:28:25,185 --> 00:28:29,345
Moments in time where, you know,
James would be like, that's
475
00:28:29,345 --> 00:28:30,825
it, I'm throwing in the towel.
476
00:28:31,245 --> 00:28:35,195
And we'd be like, no, talk him
through it, and then vice versa.
477
00:28:35,295 --> 00:28:38,434
I'd be like, oh no, we can't
do this anymore, it's too
478
00:28:38,435 --> 00:28:39,415
hard, and he'd be like, no, no.
479
00:28:39,415 --> 00:28:43,905
So we had the benefit of that
support of helping each other
480
00:28:43,935 --> 00:28:44,854
through the tough times.
481
00:28:46,050 --> 00:28:49,980
And also, even though it was hard,
there were, James said it before, and I
482
00:28:50,110 --> 00:28:54,370
think this really wraps up a little bit
of the magic that happened, because I
483
00:28:54,370 --> 00:28:59,759
truly believe there were people upstairs
orchestrating to support, because we,
484
00:28:59,810 --> 00:29:04,709
when we came back and said we were
going to start a charity, I don't think
485
00:29:04,709 --> 00:29:07,830
there was any one person that said,
Oh yeah, that's a great idea, do that.
486
00:29:08,429 --> 00:29:10,889
Most people like, Oh, okay.
487
00:29:10,919 --> 00:29:16,195
Some people, We even reached out to people
who had charities and they strongly advise
488
00:29:16,195 --> 00:29:21,485
not, and it's really hard to get your DGR
status and it's really hard to register.
489
00:29:21,814 --> 00:29:23,894
And we just didn't find those right.
490
00:29:24,085 --> 00:29:25,334
We didn't have those roadblocks.
491
00:29:25,334 --> 00:29:30,648
And so they were kind of sparks
of energy to go, Oh, this is
492
00:29:30,648 --> 00:29:32,545
obviously worthy, let's keep going.
493
00:29:32,545 --> 00:29:38,825
So we, we just had those moments in time
and we'd, you know, stumble across people.
494
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:44,110
Who would donate or become, you know,
we've got a founding philanthropist who's
495
00:29:44,110 --> 00:29:49,590
been with us the whole time and even the
way that that fell into place was we met
496
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:55,645
this person who met that person and then
we you know, you can't You can't plan
497
00:29:55,645 --> 00:30:00,765
for those events to happen and there were
lots of those that went made us think
498
00:30:01,395 --> 00:30:04,105
okay this is meant to be let's keep going.
499
00:30:04,205 --> 00:30:04,455
So
500
00:30:06,205 --> 00:30:09,735
Catherine: yeah that's encouraging I
have to say because you know I'm I'm
501
00:30:09,875 --> 00:30:16,785
only not even a year in yet and uh
at times it can feel quite isolated
502
00:30:16,925 --> 00:30:18,745
and or isolating I should say.
503
00:30:19,145 --> 00:30:23,895
And, and sometimes you can't see
light at the end of the tunnel.
504
00:30:24,135 --> 00:30:25,725
So it's, it's encouraging.
505
00:30:25,815 --> 00:30:31,785
It sounds like that if someone is
doing something that they're doing for
506
00:30:31,845 --> 00:30:38,615
purpose, that each little part of the
jigsaw puzzle should be an achievement.
507
00:30:38,615 --> 00:30:39,175
I suppose.
508
00:30:39,285 --> 00:30:40,205
Is that what I'm hearing?
509
00:30:41,015 --> 00:30:41,225
Kristy: Yeah.
510
00:30:41,665 --> 00:30:42,395
James: Yeah.
511
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,750
And I don't, it's hard, it's hard to
articulate I've got to say because
512
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,360
it is that inner knowing that you've
got to keep going and I think if you
513
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,740
ever are blessed enough to have that
knowing then keep going even during
514
00:30:58,740 --> 00:31:00,800
the hard, because the hard days are
going to be there no matter what.
515
00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:06,923
Kristy: The hard days will make
it satisfying too at the end.
516
00:31:06,923 --> 00:31:10,170
Oh wow, we did that, we got through that.
517
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,820
We are also have over the years
been surrounded and supported
518
00:31:15,850 --> 00:31:21,150
by the most incredible volunteer
base that you could imagine.
519
00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:27,070
So yeah, that support, we wouldn't have
got anywhere near where we are either.
520
00:31:27,610 --> 00:31:33,240
That's the base that keeps us going
and deliver our programs to the,
521
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,840
to, you know, top notch programs
because we have those people.
522
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:44,180
James: And you know, sorry, you go.
523
00:31:46,460 --> 00:31:49,930
Oh, I was just, I was just
going to say it's, it's, it's
524
00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:51,010
a charity that makes sense.
525
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,860
And I think everyone, you know, the
one in 20 that kids that lose someone,
526
00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:59,830
but there's so many adults out there
that have lost either lost as a child
527
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,370
or an adult that don't necessarily know
how to talk about it or can relate.
528
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,730
So it's a relatable cause.
529
00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:10,500
It's, it is an easy sell because, you
know, I think Christie said it earlier
530
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:14,800
that volunteers come to our organization
knowing they're making a difference.
531
00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:19,660
Um, I always use an example every
time whenever I did a talk that
532
00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:20,910
I used to donate to a charity.
533
00:32:21,420 --> 00:32:24,710
Um, I used to have a sign writing
business, but pretty feel the magic
534
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:27,940
and I'd have charities ringing
me all the time, every day, at
535
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:29,090
least five or six times a day.
536
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:31,370
And it's overwhelmingly annoying.
537
00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:35,430
You think far out is I'm charitable,
but I'm not that charitable.
538
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:36,170
And I'm not.
539
00:32:36,490 --> 00:32:40,450
I signed, I did sign up to a monthly
membership with, with one charity,
540
00:32:40,450 --> 00:32:43,919
I won't mention the name, and I
donated, I think it was like, I don't
541
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:49,890
know, 60 bucks a month, which, you
know, it's not huge money, but surely
542
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:52,610
over a number of years, that makes a
difference to someone, and not once
543
00:32:52,610 --> 00:32:54,360
did I ever know where my money went.
544
00:32:54,930 --> 00:32:57,380
I think I was, I didn't even
think I claimed it on tax, I just,
545
00:32:57,470 --> 00:33:00,300
just, it was just, just this money
that was going out every day.
546
00:33:01,150 --> 00:33:02,220
So I always thought that.
547
00:33:02,555 --> 00:33:03,425
You've got to do it different.
548
00:33:03,425 --> 00:33:06,185
You can't just be a charity
and just take people's money.
549
00:33:06,185 --> 00:33:09,405
You've got to provide that experience.
550
00:33:10,025 --> 00:33:12,995
And then you might be able to ask
for some sort of dollars in exchange.
551
00:33:13,455 --> 00:33:17,885
And what we've created organically, I
must say, with, with our volunteer base
552
00:33:17,885 --> 00:33:23,325
is they get just, they get just as much
out of the work we do than our kids do,
553
00:33:23,905 --> 00:33:28,005
as much as the kids do, because they
can see the difference they've made.
554
00:33:28,585 --> 00:33:30,685
They've connected with other
adults who love being there.
555
00:33:31,865 --> 00:33:36,125
And it's just this community and culture
that is supportive and, you know, what I
556
00:33:36,125 --> 00:33:40,575
love seeing is this whole group of mentors
that were bereaved kids and they've come
557
00:33:40,575 --> 00:33:44,015
together as adults that, that then never
would have met anyone else in their
558
00:33:44,015 --> 00:33:46,145
situation if it wasn't for Feel the Magic.
559
00:33:46,375 --> 00:33:49,215
So, yeah, I just love seeing the
connections that have been made
560
00:33:49,215 --> 00:33:52,955
that, that spread far and wide
through, through the organization.
561
00:33:53,610 --> 00:33:55,770
Which, again, definitely wasn't
our intention at the start.
562
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,640
You've developed quite the community.
563
00:34:00,470 --> 00:34:01,080
Absolutely.
564
00:34:01,910 --> 00:34:02,190
Yep.
565
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:06,830
Catherine: And James, you were
talking about how your mother had,
566
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:12,200
had passed away, and that was one
of the catalysts that, that led to
567
00:34:12,430 --> 00:34:14,140
you starting the, um, the charity.
568
00:34:14,650 --> 00:34:16,990
And that wasn't the
only one though, was it?
569
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,890
James: Yeah, I lost, I lost my dad
at, uh, as a, at 25, as a young adult.
570
00:34:21,980 --> 00:34:28,150
Dad had cancer for two and a bit years and
he died in, uh, I think it was April 2024.
571
00:34:28,830 --> 00:34:33,680
No, sorry 2005 and it
was at dad's funeral.
572
00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:34,620
It's funny.
573
00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:37,840
I share this if I may share
this share this story I've had
574
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,910
three major losses in my life.
575
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,569
The first was dad's in 2005 at age 25.
576
00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:46,660
I Didn't really grieve.
577
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,035
I think I shed one tear and
then as soon as the The funeral
578
00:34:50,035 --> 00:34:51,315
was over and the wake was over.
579
00:34:52,015 --> 00:34:54,455
I was in action mode because
I wanted to take care of mom.
580
00:34:54,815 --> 00:34:55,965
Mom was living in Queensland.
581
00:34:55,965 --> 00:34:56,665
We were living in Sydney.
582
00:34:56,665 --> 00:34:57,805
I wanted to move mom down.
583
00:34:58,305 --> 00:35:02,275
So it kind of gave me, and being 25, I
wasn't really taking life too serious.
584
00:35:02,275 --> 00:35:05,815
So it was almost like a, I actually
felt a shift in my brain to mature.
585
00:35:06,405 --> 00:35:10,205
And then we set out on a path to,
to house my mom down here with us.
586
00:35:11,135 --> 00:35:11,675
And.
587
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:15,990
That was the journey, but you know, I
kind of got caught up in this material
588
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:20,120
world and making good money and, uh,
and then all of a sudden lost mum
589
00:35:20,190 --> 00:35:22,110
unexpectedly on my 31st birthday.
590
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:26,090
So that was my second loss and
that was a, that was horrific.
591
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:29,590
It was the shock and I tried
to suppress that and keep going
592
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:31,480
forward, but it wasn't working.
593
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,580
And that, that, that lasted, that
pain lasted for about two years purely
594
00:35:35,580 --> 00:35:39,790
because I wasn't dealing with it or
wasn't really talking about it and
595
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:40,800
I didn't know how to deal with it.
596
00:35:40,890 --> 00:35:43,210
So I just thought the best thing
to do is try work, work it away.
597
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,490
And then obviously feel the
magic's founded and all that
598
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,590
great stuff that comes with it.
599
00:35:47,590 --> 00:35:52,380
But last year on Christmas Eve, I
lost my little mate, Joey, who is my
600
00:35:52,540 --> 00:35:53,740
eight and a half year old chihuahua.
601
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:57,660
And he was, he was my
best mate and he died.
602
00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:01,110
Something bit him and he
had an anaphylactic reaction
603
00:36:01,110 --> 00:36:02,120
on Christmas Eve night.
604
00:36:02,350 --> 00:36:04,850
And that, that was devastating.
605
00:36:05,150 --> 00:36:07,780
You know, Joey was there when
we first founded feel the magic.
606
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,270
No, sorry.
607
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,520
He was a couple of years in, so he would,
when we're in the building stage, Joey
608
00:36:11,570 --> 00:36:15,595
was always with me always on my lap or
he's on my desk sometimes because he's so
609
00:36:15,625 --> 00:36:19,895
little but he was just there and he was a
big personality and to have him taken on
610
00:36:19,895 --> 00:36:24,665
christmas eve was was gut wrenching and
i cried as much as i wanted to avoid it
611
00:36:24,665 --> 00:36:30,535
i cried nine days straight for for joey
but i've got to say after the nine days
612
00:36:30,535 --> 00:36:35,575
i actually felt lighter more accepting
so it was three different experiences
613
00:36:35,575 --> 00:36:38,155
where joey was just Rip my heart out.
614
00:36:38,915 --> 00:36:42,175
I dealt with it, which in a way that
I feel is the right way to grieve.
615
00:36:42,335 --> 00:36:47,625
Mums was a two year journey of self
destruction and self sabotage because
616
00:36:47,625 --> 00:36:48,475
I didn't want to deal with it.
617
00:36:48,625 --> 00:36:52,735
And Dad was just in a way stoic because
I thought right that's it funeral's
618
00:36:52,745 --> 00:36:56,765
done let's let's get on with things
because I had to be I had to mature so
619
00:36:56,765 --> 00:37:00,385
there's three different experiences but
I honestly feel like from the lessons
620
00:37:00,385 --> 00:37:03,755
I've learned with feel the magic the
way I've dealt with Joey I can look
621
00:37:03,755 --> 00:37:08,655
back on and feel proud because that's
how a healthy grieving process should
622
00:37:08,655 --> 00:37:10,755
look like and that was my little dog.
623
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:17,390
Catherine: But it's interesting
though, because sometimes that is
624
00:37:17,390 --> 00:37:22,850
what it takes is the unconditional
love that you get from a pet
625
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:24,000
Kristy: that,
626
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:28,410
Catherine: that probably sometimes he
just hits us the hardest because we don't
627
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,484
have all of that other emotional baggage
with it, you know, and I find that.
628
00:37:33,775 --> 00:37:38,965
You know, when we had to, our cat
got quite sick and we had to make
629
00:37:38,965 --> 00:37:41,035
the decision to, to euthanize her.
630
00:37:41,035 --> 00:37:45,885
And it was really hard to come back
into the house because you don't
631
00:37:45,895 --> 00:37:47,295
realize how much they're there
632
00:37:48,185 --> 00:37:48,425
Kristy: until
633
00:37:48,775 --> 00:37:48,875
Catherine: they're not.
634
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,140
You know, and I think it's that constant,
as you hear my cat in the background,
635
00:37:53,570 --> 00:37:58,660
another one, it is that constant, you
know, companionship that you do, you do
636
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:00,620
find, and just that loyalty and love.
637
00:38:00,620 --> 00:38:05,680
So, you know, sometimes I'm not
surprised when people say that
638
00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:11,040
they are really, really emotionally
affected by, and find that they
639
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,178
grieve the most when their pet dies.
640
00:38:13,178 --> 00:38:13,547
Yeah.
641
00:38:13,547 --> 00:38:13,917
James: Yeah.
642
00:38:13,917 --> 00:38:15,394
It was very sad.
643
00:38:18,385 --> 00:38:20,635
Catherine: And Christy, you've
had your own experience.
644
00:38:21,615 --> 00:38:22,075
Yeah,
645
00:38:22,125 --> 00:38:27,805
Kristy: so, um, I lost my brother Corey
to leukaemia when I was a young girl.
646
00:38:28,775 --> 00:38:29,435
Um,
647
00:38:31,835 --> 00:38:34,325
so I was only two when he left.
648
00:38:34,865 --> 00:38:42,550
However, the impact, I think what impacted
me the most is, Living in a family
649
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:45,010
that's grieving was really difficult.
650
00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:49,240
So, at the time he was
certainly my best friend.
651
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,270
He, I was only a toddler, but
he was sort of bound to a chair.
652
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,400
And anything I'm sharing is It's
stuff that I've heard secondhand,
653
00:38:59,410 --> 00:39:01,040
which is tricky as well.
654
00:39:01,660 --> 00:39:03,450
I don't have my own memories of him.
655
00:39:03,450 --> 00:39:06,650
It's all secondhand and it's
photos and things like that.
656
00:39:06,650 --> 00:39:11,390
But yeah, according to mum, I,
I, you know, would lay in his lap
657
00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:14,250
most days while he was really sick.
658
00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:15,930
And then one day he was gone.
659
00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:20,310
And so developmentally I wasn't
able to understand what happened.
660
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:22,080
I just knew there was a deep loss there.
661
00:39:23,055 --> 00:39:26,945
And that kind of didn't really
surface for me until I was about 20.
662
00:39:27,895 --> 00:39:31,185
And then at that time I sought,
you know, therapeutic support.
663
00:39:32,235 --> 00:39:38,325
And I still do because it has been
such, had such an impact on my life.
664
00:39:39,035 --> 00:39:46,485
And so that's kind of my connection and
dedication to these grieving kids is that
665
00:39:46,485 --> 00:39:50,675
my family could really have used support
throughout that time when he passed away.
666
00:39:52,175 --> 00:39:56,545
Because no one knows what to
do or say or how to move on.
667
00:39:56,545 --> 00:39:59,285
And, you know, we all,
everyone in my family, there's.
668
00:40:01,405 --> 00:40:03,440
Mom, dad and sister, older sister.
669
00:40:03,715 --> 00:40:06,325
So my brother was in
between the two of us.
670
00:40:06,355 --> 00:40:06,655
Yeah.
671
00:40:06,655 --> 00:40:11,245
We've all dealt with our grief in
different ways and positive and negative.
672
00:40:11,515 --> 00:40:16,325
And so yeah, to be able to
give back and support kids.
673
00:40:16,325 --> 00:40:20,995
And also I have the benefit of, we,
we support a lot of kids who don't
674
00:40:20,995 --> 00:40:25,865
have physical memories of their,
their family member who's died so.
675
00:40:26,375 --> 00:40:30,655
Being able to share that and
relate to them, tell them they're
676
00:40:30,655 --> 00:40:35,380
not alone is, you know, something
really special that forever.
677
00:40:36,090 --> 00:40:38,170
I'll be proud of that we get to do.
678
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:41,200
Uh, it's quite emotional, but worthy.
679
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,020
Catherine: That's really beautiful.
680
00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:51,030
It's something that I, I hadn't thought
of was the, the, the physical memory.
681
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:52,760
Yeah.
682
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,330
And, and just that, that age or,
yeah, that's, that's really special.
683
00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,180
Thank you for both sharing your stories.
684
00:40:59,940 --> 00:41:04,610
From your experience, what do you think
that you find the most challenging
685
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,270
for families when they come to you?
686
00:41:08,125 --> 00:41:12,655
Kristy: Most challenging is tricky because
there's, you know, a variety of things,
687
00:41:12,885 --> 00:41:18,775
but I think for a parent, for a parent,
it's the struggle of being in so much
688
00:41:18,795 --> 00:41:25,895
pain yourself, and as a parent myself,
I think we always find it easy to push
689
00:41:25,895 --> 00:41:29,965
us out on our own, but when it comes
to our child's pain, we're all over it.
690
00:41:30,075 --> 00:41:36,105
And so, I think it takes a while for
the parent to work through their own
691
00:41:36,115 --> 00:41:40,635
grief because they're so focused on
making sure their child's okay and
692
00:41:40,855 --> 00:41:42,195
they just don't know what to do.
693
00:41:42,515 --> 00:41:45,815
So they don't know how to help
their kids and so that's where
694
00:41:45,815 --> 00:41:47,955
we come in to support them.
695
00:41:49,905 --> 00:41:56,095
But what I know from working with so
many families and the families that
696
00:41:56,095 --> 00:42:03,970
I see that really thrive beyond grief
is the families where the parent is
697
00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:11,040
addressing their grief first, because no
matter what else happens, at least the
698
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,630
child's being modelled healthy grieving.
699
00:42:14,770 --> 00:42:18,170
Also the children have, that
have all of the information.
700
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:20,920
Do better in their grief.
701
00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:27,040
So if there's anything that's any
information that's withheld or that's
702
00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:32,480
maybe really sensitive around the
topic of how they died and they
703
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:38,544
don't have all of the information
throughout time that just Escalates.
704
00:42:38,545 --> 00:42:41,565
Children are very
intuitive and they get it.
705
00:42:41,855 --> 00:42:45,285
They know they don't have all the
information and they have a really
706
00:42:45,325 --> 00:42:47,075
clever way of making it about them.
707
00:42:48,035 --> 00:42:49,575
It must have been because of me.
708
00:42:49,605 --> 00:42:55,285
And yeah, so I would say the biggest
challenge is, you know, trying to support
709
00:42:55,305 --> 00:43:01,435
the parent to support themselves and
then to not just focus on the kids.
710
00:43:01,740 --> 00:43:03,060
That they're important to.
711
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,650
Kids are naturally amazing at grieving.
712
00:43:07,810 --> 00:43:12,290
If when they come into our space,
we create a safe space for them.
713
00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:19,100
They just naturally express themselves
and then move on, go and play footy
714
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:23,840
and then come back into the group and
express themselves and then, Oh, okay.
715
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:24,830
I'm, I'm good with that.
716
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,460
Now let's, let's go hang
out and smile and laugh.
717
00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:32,650
And it's not that, you know,
you need to have grief.
718
00:43:34,565 --> 00:43:38,705
And the presence of grief
means there's no happiness.
719
00:43:38,725 --> 00:43:43,085
They do really well at saying, I'm
grieving and I'm enjoying this moment.
720
00:43:43,125 --> 00:43:44,805
I'm grieving and I'm happy.
721
00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:49,525
And I think as adults, we find it
really hard to articulate in our
722
00:43:49,545 --> 00:43:51,445
brain that it's okay to be both.
723
00:43:52,945 --> 00:43:58,425
When we're grieving, There's so much
sadness and so much pain, but it's
724
00:43:58,425 --> 00:44:05,965
still okay to be happy or joyful or
they can coexist at any one time.
725
00:44:08,285 --> 00:44:12,205
James: I would, I would say from,
from my experience, it's, it's the
726
00:44:12,205 --> 00:44:15,255
isolation that grief presents families.
727
00:44:15,515 --> 00:44:19,465
So, you know, kids not knowing
anyone else in their situation
728
00:44:19,485 --> 00:44:21,485
other than their, their siblings.
729
00:44:22,020 --> 00:44:26,950
and uh, widowed parents
that are doing this alone.
730
00:44:27,470 --> 00:44:28,570
They don't know anyone else.
731
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:32,290
And because we live in a society where
no one really knows what to say or do,
732
00:44:33,340 --> 00:44:37,490
they're usually, not our, our cast is
probably a bit traumatic, but they are
733
00:44:38,340 --> 00:44:40,730
avoided because no one knows what to say.
734
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:41,980
So they don't want to say the wrong thing.
735
00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:46,790
So, you know, there's been heaps of, I
know families that have said that, you
736
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:50,100
know, their closest friends would be on
the, walking towards each other and they'd
737
00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:53,080
cross the street just to avoid them,
just to avoid an awkward conversation.
738
00:44:53,855 --> 00:44:58,165
And a lack of understanding, you know,
another example of school teachers
739
00:44:58,665 --> 00:45:03,655
wondering what's wrong with the kid or
children because they're not themselves,
740
00:45:04,775 --> 00:45:08,495
you know, and it's only been six months
since their family member has died.
741
00:45:09,615 --> 00:45:14,975
So just that, just that lack of
emotional intelligence that, you
742
00:45:14,975 --> 00:45:19,055
know, influential people in their
life should know better and should
743
00:45:19,145 --> 00:45:20,915
accommodate a lot better, but they don't.
744
00:45:21,335 --> 00:45:26,005
You know, I was told a story by
a, by a parent where a child was.
745
00:45:26,420 --> 00:45:30,490
Continually playing up at school and the
mother called, sorry, the teacher called
746
00:45:30,490 --> 00:45:34,810
the mother and she said, you know, your
son's doing this, that and the other.
747
00:45:34,910 --> 00:45:35,940
Is there anything going on?
748
00:45:36,490 --> 00:45:38,510
She said, yeah, you know, his dad's died.
749
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,390
She said, yeah, yeah, but
that, that was six months ago.
750
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:41,520
Is there anything else that's happened?
751
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:44,650
Now that, and that to
me shouldn't be in that.
752
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:47,140
You shouldn't be a teacher if
that's, if that's your level
753
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:48,110
of emotional intelligence.
754
00:45:48,130 --> 00:45:52,460
If you think in six months time, a
young man is, is meant to get over
755
00:45:52,460 --> 00:45:55,180
his dad, you, you're kidding yourself.
756
00:45:55,390 --> 00:45:55,890
And that's,
757
00:45:57,990 --> 00:46:00,800
that also just cements for that
boy that he's, that he's different,
758
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,830
that his life's in a bit of a
shambles and he's acting that out.
759
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:08,400
So who is there to support that child
and who is there to support that
760
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,340
teacher so she, so she can know better.
761
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:15,090
And there's multiple stories that
I've heard over the years just like
762
00:46:15,090 --> 00:46:17,880
that, where you just, you know,
come on, let's, let's get over it.
763
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:19,030
And to be fair.
764
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:21,560
When I lost my dad, that's how I felt.
765
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:22,430
I've got to get over this.
766
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,200
So it's, it's this.
767
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,910
It's an unspoken rule that you just
need to get on with it, but there's a
768
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:33,270
better way to do it because the last
thing we want is people just trying to
769
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:36,510
get over it and all of a sudden they're
teenagers, they're young adults and
770
00:46:36,510 --> 00:46:40,200
they're drinking too much and it comes
out in the wrong ways or they're taking
771
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,650
drugs and it comes out in the wrong ways.
772
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:45,530
So, they're best learning the tools
necessary now, so that they are
773
00:46:45,590 --> 00:46:47,060
healthy functioning human beings.
774
00:46:47,950 --> 00:46:51,310
But that takes, that takes a lot
of understanding from all angles.
775
00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:57,490
Catherine: And there is some really
amazing resources that you have on your
776
00:46:57,490 --> 00:47:02,630
website, and also there's some additional
resources on the CriticalInfo website
777
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:03,720
that we'll put in the show notes.
778
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,960
where people can get assistance when
they're dealing with, with grieving,
779
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,640
uh, and also about how to speak to
someone, you know, who is grieving
780
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:15,480
and, and how to have a conversation.
781
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,030
Because at the end of the day,
they're still the same person that you
782
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:23,963
actually went to the footy with, or,
you know, watch the, the sidelines on
783
00:47:23,963 --> 00:47:26,039
the soccer, the kids play soccer, so.
784
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,510
Yeah, we'll definitely share those.
785
00:47:29,140 --> 00:47:29,480
Awesome.
786
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:36,730
Now, you've engaged, uh, HuberSocial to
write a social impact report from 2017
787
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,890
to 2020 on the work that you've done.
788
00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:43,370
What did you learn from these reports
and, and how have the, the findings
789
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:44,970
impacted the work that you do?
790
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:53,810
Kristy: So we've engaged with HuberSocial
right up until We're still engaged
791
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:57,280
with Hoover Social to do social
impact reports because it was really
792
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,700
important for us to make sure that we
were hearing from the horse's mouth
793
00:48:01,030 --> 00:48:05,670
whether or not we're actually making
an impact on the well being of our
794
00:48:06,310 --> 00:48:07,830
beautiful kids that come through.
795
00:48:07,860 --> 00:48:14,570
So the way that we've used the information
is to ensure that the outcomes that we've
796
00:48:14,570 --> 00:48:20,220
laid out, we're actually meeting and
improving their well being over time.
797
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,280
So through the surveys, they do
a pre camp, they do a post camp,
798
00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:27,760
and then a three month follow up.
799
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:32,370
So we can really lay out the
scope of the impact as well.
800
00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:35,690
It's really important for us to make
sure that we're not just sending them
801
00:48:35,690 --> 00:48:37,100
home and then it's out the window.
802
00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:42,060
So, because one of the key things
is that we empower them with the
803
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:47,100
tools, practical ones, easy ones,
that they can do anywhere at any time
804
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:49,490
to self soothe and self regulate.
805
00:48:50,395 --> 00:48:55,855
And so that three month survey just
sort of checks in to make sure we're
806
00:48:55,855 --> 00:48:58,725
meeting that requirement of our outcome.
807
00:48:58,905 --> 00:49:05,655
But yeah, it's, it's incredible to see,
um, the increase in their wellbeing
808
00:49:05,725 --> 00:49:10,685
overall when they come through our
camp program to not doing the program.
809
00:49:11,755 --> 00:49:13,299
That's been really important for us.
810
00:49:14,620 --> 00:49:17,630
Catherine: And has there been anything
that you've learned through those
811
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,930
studies that you've gone, Oh, okay,
we need to modify here or add here.
812
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:24,510
I mean, it depends.
813
00:49:26,260 --> 00:49:28,490
Kristy: There's not been
a lot of modification.
814
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:34,535
The modifications probably When it
comes to the content at camp, that
815
00:49:35,025 --> 00:49:37,455
has been pretty consistent throughout.
816
00:49:37,455 --> 00:49:41,165
Of course, we add in different
fun activities to still meet the
817
00:49:41,165 --> 00:49:44,745
same outcomes, but the outcomes
of camp have been the same
818
00:49:44,855 --> 00:49:46,595
consistently throughout time.
819
00:49:47,285 --> 00:49:52,025
What we have improved on through
these surveys is the pre and post
820
00:49:52,305 --> 00:49:54,845
camp follow ups or introductions.
821
00:49:55,285 --> 00:49:59,485
So building their capacity
pre camp and then following
822
00:49:59,485 --> 00:50:01,445
up post is making sure that.
823
00:50:02,255 --> 00:50:07,465
They're supported in a holistic way
and not just while they're at camps.
824
00:50:08,235 --> 00:50:14,065
So I think that's really informed how much
information they need coming into camp.
825
00:50:14,105 --> 00:50:20,215
So rather than maybe having two touch
points with us, they now have a series
826
00:50:20,225 --> 00:50:25,945
of touch points coming into a camp,
but every person has a, or sorry, every
827
00:50:25,965 --> 00:50:31,275
parent has a phone call with our intake
person that goes, you know, anywhere
828
00:50:31,275 --> 00:50:33,345
between half an hour and an hour.
829
00:50:33,345 --> 00:50:33,479
Yeah.
830
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:37,510
where the parent can tell their
story and talk about their children.
831
00:50:37,970 --> 00:50:45,180
And that implementation has been,
has changed the scope of the way the
832
00:50:45,180 --> 00:50:48,920
kids come in because now we're really
clear about what the kids needs are,
833
00:50:50,110 --> 00:50:56,110
where they're at with their grief,
what do they, what do they need, and
834
00:50:56,170 --> 00:50:58,590
do they need extra support coming in.
835
00:50:58,650 --> 00:51:04,280
So, you know, often if kids have any
special needs, like me, we have a
836
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,730
lot of kids come through with, you
know, Neurodivergence of some sort.
837
00:51:08,290 --> 00:51:10,910
And so some of those kids need
just a little extra support.
838
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:15,060
And cause we've identified that really
early, we can put those in place for them
839
00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:16,730
to have a really positive experience.
840
00:51:17,140 --> 00:51:20,960
So I think that's been
the most important thing.
841
00:51:21,470 --> 00:51:24,670
There's been a couple of findings of
light, especially we haven't released
842
00:51:24,670 --> 00:51:27,669
the findings from the last year.
843
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:32,119
We're just finishing off the
report, but the report from
844
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,990
2023 had an increase of anxiety.
845
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,880
And throughout the camp process, and
as we sort of delve deeper into those
846
00:51:42,890 --> 00:51:47,700
findings, we realize, oh, okay, it's
actually not that anxiety wasn't
847
00:51:47,710 --> 00:51:49,540
present before they're coming to camp.
848
00:51:49,590 --> 00:51:52,340
It's that they're actually
addressing it when they come to camp.
849
00:51:53,070 --> 00:51:58,220
So when they come in, there's a place
for them to allow that to come up, talk
850
00:51:58,220 --> 00:52:01,650
it through, and then they have this
strategy because yes, while there's the
851
00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:03,780
presence of anxiety while they're at camp.
852
00:52:05,145 --> 00:52:11,145
The level of, um, their ability or
their knowledge that has improved
853
00:52:11,195 --> 00:52:16,275
around seeking help, self soothing,
self regulation has increased.
854
00:52:17,025 --> 00:52:20,855
So, yes, we've heightened them slightly.
855
00:52:21,175 --> 00:52:24,625
There's the presence of emotions,
but we shouldn't be scared of those.
856
00:52:24,745 --> 00:52:25,975
Like, that's what we want.
857
00:52:25,985 --> 00:52:29,685
We want their emotions to boil
up so they can identify them.
858
00:52:30,755 --> 00:52:31,915
know what to do with them.
859
00:52:32,105 --> 00:52:35,465
And if they can't do anything
themselves, who to ask for help.
860
00:52:35,655 --> 00:52:40,165
So yeah, there's a lot, there's
lots of information that we
861
00:52:40,195 --> 00:52:42,155
get from the social reports.
862
00:52:42,265 --> 00:52:48,945
It's really important to pick them apart
sometimes because I mean, you could look
863
00:52:48,945 --> 00:52:54,065
at that, Oh, they're anxious, but no, once
you pick it apart and then you see you
864
00:52:54,065 --> 00:52:58,605
level it out with their increased ability
to know where to get help, you're like,
865
00:52:58,605 --> 00:53:00,385
Oh, okay, we're meeting the outcomes here.
866
00:53:00,715 --> 00:53:01,245
So Yeah,
867
00:53:02,465 --> 00:53:05,735
Catherine: that's great that you're, you
know, sort of getting, getting children
868
00:53:05,735 --> 00:53:10,805
at that age where they really need, it's
so good that they're learning to their,
869
00:53:10,865 --> 00:53:17,135
listening to their physical responses and
then becoming aware of them and then sort
870
00:53:17,135 --> 00:53:20,735
of voicing what they are and the fact
that you're giving them that opportunity.
871
00:53:20,735 --> 00:53:26,015
And I love the fact that your
intake person is having a call with,
872
00:53:26,045 --> 00:53:29,765
with one of the parent parents or
carers before the kids come in.
873
00:53:29,885 --> 00:53:31,385
Like that might be.
874
00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:34,410
The only time that someone's
actually had an hour long
875
00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:35,730
conversation with that person.
876
00:53:36,650 --> 00:53:37,970
Would that be correct in saying?
877
00:53:38,780 --> 00:53:39,980
I would think that's
878
00:53:39,980 --> 00:53:40,620
Kristy: correct.
879
00:53:40,750 --> 00:53:49,860
And they, I don't want to generalize,
but parents love the outlet because Maybe
880
00:53:49,860 --> 00:53:54,520
they don't have someone they can just tell
all of the horrible stuff to that doesn't
881
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,980
feel uncomfortable like our intake person.
882
00:53:57,650 --> 00:54:05,590
Um, she would hear like story after story
after week after week, but just having
883
00:54:05,590 --> 00:54:07,820
that one person to listen who gets it.
884
00:54:08,225 --> 00:54:12,335
Doesn't judge, hasn't got any
emotional attachment to the outcome.
885
00:54:12,685 --> 00:54:15,895
Like it really is a beautiful
safe space for them to share.
886
00:54:17,065 --> 00:54:20,125
And also they love to give all
the information because they
887
00:54:20,325 --> 00:54:22,055
want the best for their child.
888
00:54:22,305 --> 00:54:27,165
So the opportunity to be able to share
every detail about their child and where
889
00:54:27,165 --> 00:54:29,039
they're at and how they need support.
890
00:54:30,010 --> 00:54:32,240
It's really, really beneficial for them.
891
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,700
Catherine: And just that healing that must
be, um, be able to happen because of that.
892
00:54:39,210 --> 00:54:41,700
Feeling that this is the one
way in which I can help my
893
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:44,390
child is by sharing all of this.
894
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:50,270
You know, for me, if I'm thinking
about how I would feel, I would feel
895
00:54:50,420 --> 00:54:54,750
like at least I'm, I'm helping in that
way to share all of that information.
896
00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:55,086
Yeah.
897
00:54:55,086 --> 00:54:55,422
Kristy: Yeah.
898
00:54:55,422 --> 00:54:55,758
Yeah.
899
00:54:55,758 --> 00:54:56,094
It's
900
00:54:56,094 --> 00:54:58,250
Catherine: a, it's a really amazing.
901
00:54:58,615 --> 00:55:02,655
Kristy: As a parent who handing over
the responsibility, you know, when you
902
00:55:02,665 --> 00:55:06,455
send your child to school and you want
to feel confident, the school teacher is
903
00:55:06,455 --> 00:55:12,275
going to look after them and give them
the best education, it's the same thing.
904
00:55:12,695 --> 00:55:14,255
You want, like, we've just.
905
00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:18,120
sent our six year old to school this
year, and we were so pleased to be
906
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,540
able to give them all the information,
all these quirks, all these, all the
907
00:55:22,540 --> 00:55:24,180
things that he's really great at.
908
00:55:24,340 --> 00:55:28,540
And we felt really supported by being
able to give all the information.
909
00:55:28,550 --> 00:55:29,344
And so.
910
00:55:29,775 --> 00:55:31,525
We've had that experience recently.
911
00:55:31,525 --> 00:55:37,425
So knowing that our parents, cause
then they're also not responsible as
912
00:55:37,425 --> 00:55:41,265
a parent, we're not a hundred percent
responsible for our kids either.
913
00:55:41,315 --> 00:55:44,025
You know, we've got to make sure
they're okay and look after them.
914
00:55:44,105 --> 00:55:50,145
But when it comes to their emotional
ability to heal and go through this
915
00:55:50,165 --> 00:55:55,965
process, it must feel such a relief to
be able to say, okay, can you take care
916
00:55:55,965 --> 00:55:59,305
of that part for me and just tell me
what I have to do at the end, which is.
917
00:56:00,245 --> 00:56:04,515
What we do, we provide the parents
an opportunity to come to workshops
918
00:56:04,525 --> 00:56:06,345
pre, like during the camp.
919
00:56:06,395 --> 00:56:09,395
So they come, once they drop
their kids off, we sort of
920
00:56:09,495 --> 00:56:10,995
usher them into their own room.
921
00:56:11,635 --> 00:56:13,165
So they have a bit of downtime.
922
00:56:13,765 --> 00:56:16,685
Because often they're upset about
leaving their kids sometimes too,
923
00:56:16,685 --> 00:56:18,595
and there's a safe space for them.
924
00:56:19,515 --> 00:56:23,205
And then when they come back on the
Sunday, they, we teach them all of
925
00:56:23,205 --> 00:56:25,605
the tools that we've taught the kids.
926
00:56:26,305 --> 00:56:31,675
So then when they go home, they've got
this combined knowledge and they can sort
927
00:56:31,675 --> 00:56:36,685
of thrive once they get back into their
environment and they've got all the tools
928
00:56:36,755 --> 00:56:41,655
to then the parent can say, Oh, have
you measured where, what number are you?
929
00:56:41,705 --> 00:56:44,055
And the kid can identify where they're at.
930
00:56:44,075 --> 00:56:45,695
So they've got a shared language.
931
00:56:46,610 --> 00:56:49,050
To then move through hard things.
932
00:56:50,550 --> 00:56:51,670
Catherine: That is really beautiful.
933
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:56,439
It's such a, a holistic approach
that you've taken to, you know,
934
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,340
helping families deal with grief.
935
00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:02,640
It's, it's really beautiful to hear
the stories and, and the things
936
00:57:02,650 --> 00:57:04,550
that you, you take families through.
937
00:57:05,380 --> 00:57:10,250
How can someone, how do people get
referred to you for a camp or, you know,
938
00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:11,880
starting off with the virtual sessions?
939
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:12,840
How does that happen?
940
00:57:16,005 --> 00:57:20,925
Kristy: It's, it's really easy to
come, so it's literally a link on the
941
00:57:20,925 --> 00:57:27,385
website, any parent or social worker
or school teacher can fill out, so if
942
00:57:27,385 --> 00:57:31,815
you want to refer someone, there's a
portal for that, and if you are a parent
943
00:57:31,985 --> 00:57:34,095
seeking advice, you can fill out that.
944
00:57:34,445 --> 00:57:39,735
And Lauren, who's our intake, she will be
back in touch with you within 72 hours.
945
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,620
It's usually a lot quicker, but we
just, you know, buffer it out in
946
00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:49,180
case, but she gets in contact with
anyone who fills out a form and they
947
00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:53,300
actually have the option to book a call
directly with Lauren straight away.
948
00:57:53,370 --> 00:57:56,930
So that's out of the way,
or they can do it by email.
949
00:57:56,930 --> 00:58:00,870
So we even ask them what's the
best way they want to communicate.
950
00:58:00,930 --> 00:58:01,970
Some people want text.
951
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:05,610
Some people don't want to talk
cause they're not up for it.
952
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:10,690
But yeah, the referral system is really
simple and then Lauren will sort of
953
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:16,550
map out the journey for the parent to
say, okay, well, here's where you're
954
00:58:16,550 --> 00:58:20,730
at, this is what we've got coming up
and, and it's kind of that simple.
955
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,220
The parent does need to fill out.
956
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:28,290
a detailed application form so
that we have all the information.
957
00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:31,560
But beyond that it's quite, quite simple.
958
00:58:33,140 --> 00:58:38,460
Catherine: And you, you make it your, your
task to, to sort of say no matter where
959
00:58:38,460 --> 00:58:43,470
they live in Australia, from city to the
most isolated rural town, you will, you
960
00:58:43,470 --> 00:58:45,290
will make the camp available to them.
961
00:58:47,065 --> 00:58:47,825
Kristy: Absolutely.
962
00:58:47,955 --> 00:58:48,245
Yeah.
963
00:58:48,855 --> 00:58:50,515
That's a pretty mighty task.
964
00:58:52,015 --> 00:58:54,455
Any child can access the online program.
965
00:58:54,455 --> 00:58:59,395
We've had children who have been
quite remote in, who are out of
966
00:58:59,395 --> 00:59:07,055
home care as well, where the carer
might set up online for them.
967
00:59:07,065 --> 00:59:11,695
We've even had schools reach out, where
they've then sent home a laptop with the
968
00:59:11,695 --> 00:59:14,005
child so they could access us online.
969
00:59:14,005 --> 00:59:20,875
So the online is Is honestly a game
changer because it does mean that anyone
970
00:59:20,875 --> 00:59:25,515
nationally can get into one of our
programs within a three month period.
971
00:59:26,715 --> 00:59:27,425
James: Thanks to COVID.
972
00:59:28,105 --> 00:59:28,515
Catherine: Yeah.
973
00:59:29,485 --> 00:59:30,875
Yeah, that's amazing.
974
00:59:31,305 --> 00:59:35,065
And tell me, how can someone support
the amazing work that you're doing?
975
00:59:37,305 --> 00:59:38,775
James: Yeah, there's, there's many ways.
976
00:59:39,045 --> 00:59:41,065
Uh, you know, we're always.
977
00:59:42,415 --> 00:59:45,875
I guess taking the analogy of we give
something and we give something first
978
00:59:45,875 --> 00:59:49,745
and then ask, uh, I would love to
offer my services to come and speak
979
00:59:49,745 --> 00:59:52,145
to your organization or Christy,
come and speak to the organization
980
00:59:52,155 --> 00:59:56,235
that can be done virtually or, uh,
in person, come speak to the team.
981
00:59:56,795 --> 00:59:59,345
I would encourage anyone to come
along and try out to be a mentor.
982
01:00:00,065 --> 01:00:03,005
And then, if that doesn't
change your life, then, you
983
01:00:03,005 --> 01:00:05,005
know, I don't know what will.
984
01:00:05,165 --> 01:00:08,125
But there's, you know, we have events
throughout the year, golf day, we've
985
01:00:08,125 --> 01:00:09,775
got spin a thon, we've got a magic ride.
986
01:00:10,385 --> 01:00:13,595
Usually we have a gala event, but
we're, we're parking up for this year.
987
01:00:13,805 --> 01:00:17,185
But we are looking for, the whole
mission here is sustainability.
988
01:00:17,255 --> 01:00:21,505
So, you know, whether it's a corporate
that has, had, have been impacted
989
01:00:21,505 --> 01:00:26,285
by grief or, or feel the magic, we
would love to just make it a win win.
990
01:00:27,045 --> 01:00:29,534
We need corporate dollars, we
need philanthropic dollars.
991
01:00:30,145 --> 01:00:33,825
And we just needed that consistency to
create sustainability because what we do
992
01:00:33,825 --> 01:00:38,215
does, does change lives and you can see
firsthand where your dollars are going.
993
01:00:38,245 --> 01:00:41,235
So that's how, that's how we
can, you can support and all the
994
01:00:41,235 --> 01:00:42,405
information is on our website.
995
01:00:44,665 --> 01:00:45,395
Catherine: Fantastic.
996
01:00:45,905 --> 01:00:52,175
And tell me, given your personal
experience and, uh, from the scenarios
997
01:00:52,255 --> 01:00:56,675
that you've been talking about,
how can people just be good allies?
998
01:00:56,725 --> 01:00:57,715
How can they?
999
01:00:58,220 --> 01:01:02,240
Just, you know, have the conversation
so people aren't feeling like they're
1000
01:01:02,550 --> 01:01:04,800
isolated or they're being ostracized.
1001
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:06,660
Tell me, talk me through that.
1002
01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:11,070
James: Yeah, I'll just say it from
a male's perspective, for the male
1003
01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:14,620
listeners, and I'll let Christy
elaborate far deeper than I can.
1004
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:21,370
We make it harder than what it needs
to be, so simply by being there.
1005
01:01:21,410 --> 01:01:25,910
So from a mate's, from a mate's point
of view, if I had a mate who had
1006
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:29,400
lost his child, I wouldn't overdo it.
1007
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:30,790
I wouldn't need to overdo it.
1008
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,050
He just needs to know I'm there.
1009
01:01:33,140 --> 01:01:37,140
So whether I'm just in the vicinity
of him or I'm both sides taking me up.
1010
01:01:37,785 --> 01:01:40,415
Just let him be and then nine
times out of ten, they will
1011
01:01:41,025 --> 01:01:42,815
regurgitate what they're feeling.
1012
01:01:42,885 --> 01:01:44,365
You don't have to have the answers.
1013
01:01:44,365 --> 01:01:49,215
You don't have to, you know,
you don't have to go away above
1014
01:01:49,215 --> 01:01:50,825
and beyond to make an impact.
1015
01:01:50,845 --> 01:01:55,265
Just them knowing that you're
there is, is, is more than enough
1016
01:01:55,865 --> 01:01:56,985
and anything else is a bonus.
1017
01:01:56,985 --> 01:02:01,655
You know, so, you know, even if it's
just a side hug, you know, around the
1018
01:02:01,865 --> 01:02:04,885
shoulders to let them know you're there
and that, that's, that's all it is.
1019
01:02:04,885 --> 01:02:08,815
It just, you just need to know
that someone's got your back and.
1020
01:02:09,570 --> 01:02:12,950
That you can rely on someone other than
your loved ones who are also grieving.
1021
01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:14,300
So, just be present.
1022
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:15,910
That's, that's plain and simple.
1023
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,940
Kristy: Yeah, from my point of
view, it's a bit more practical in
1024
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:25,460
that, you know, saying something
is better than saying nothing.
1025
01:02:25,790 --> 01:02:29,310
Getting it wrong is better than
not getting, getting it right.
1026
01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:31,230
So, I didn't say that right.
1027
01:02:31,700 --> 01:02:37,660
Getting it wrong is better than not
trying because Yeah, just from all
1028
01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:40,860
the interactions I've had, a lot
of people expressed that, you know,
1029
01:02:41,260 --> 01:02:45,650
people they thought they were really
close with fall off the wagon, and
1030
01:02:45,650 --> 01:02:49,750
then people they had no idea just
come out of the woodworks for support.
1031
01:02:49,790 --> 01:02:54,150
And the way they come out of the
woodwork is by offering support.
1032
01:02:54,210 --> 01:03:00,835
Now, I think being really practical about
saying, Saying to a grieving person,
1033
01:03:00,835 --> 01:03:05,115
how can I help you, you're probably
going to get a response like, I don't
1034
01:03:05,155 --> 01:03:10,945
know, because often their brain is too,
too full to really even understand.
1035
01:03:11,455 --> 01:03:16,275
So really thinking about you and your
own family and what you do have to offer.
1036
01:03:17,070 --> 01:03:18,770
Is probably the best thing.
1037
01:03:18,790 --> 01:03:23,200
So instead of saying, how can I help
you saying, Hey, I could do X, Y,
1038
01:03:23,500 --> 01:03:25,530
Z for you and just work that in.
1039
01:03:25,530 --> 01:03:33,650
So I know if it's a single mom or dad,
a single parent, often school pickups
1040
01:03:33,890 --> 01:03:35,590
or drop offs could be really supportive.
1041
01:03:36,110 --> 01:03:40,340
Uh, the old cliche of dropping
off a meal, honestly, is.
1042
01:03:41,595 --> 01:03:43,365
It's a really beautiful thing.
1043
01:03:43,385 --> 01:03:48,574
And I'm not just talking about in the
first few weeks or six weeks, like
1044
01:03:48,575 --> 01:03:50,525
support really needs to extend out.
1045
01:03:50,525 --> 01:03:54,555
Like maybe if you dropped a meal
once a month for a year because they
1046
01:03:54,585 --> 01:03:59,755
just don't have capacity to think
about food and being healthy and all
1047
01:03:59,755 --> 01:04:01,455
those things do make a difference.
1048
01:04:01,485 --> 01:04:05,215
So just thinking about what capacity as
a person you do have to offer, it might
1049
01:04:05,215 --> 01:04:07,295
be a skill set that you have, like.
1050
01:04:07,850 --> 01:04:16,170
Offering to emcee at the wake, or
baking food, or if you're a lawyer,
1051
01:04:16,190 --> 01:04:18,270
helping get affairs in order.
1052
01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:21,010
It's just the smallest of things.
1053
01:04:21,650 --> 01:04:26,430
Whatever you have to offer, offering
that specifically, rather than
1054
01:04:26,430 --> 01:04:27,810
saying, what can I do to help?
1055
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:33,410
And then aside from that, just, yeah,
just saying I'm here if you need me.
1056
01:04:35,380 --> 01:04:37,310
Sometimes they just want
someone to cry with.
1057
01:04:39,015 --> 01:04:43,305
Talk to who's not going to try
and fix them or give them advice.
1058
01:04:47,265 --> 01:04:51,205
Catherine: I can't thank you
both enough for your time today.
1059
01:04:51,665 --> 01:04:56,445
The insight that you have provided into
your program and the amazing work you
1060
01:04:56,445 --> 01:05:02,375
do is fantastic, but also just your
personal stories and how the amount of
1061
01:05:02,375 --> 01:05:03,935
growth that you've both gone through.
1062
01:05:04,450 --> 01:05:09,130
Yourselves during this whole process
is really insightful, both for me as
1063
01:05:09,130 --> 01:05:15,390
someone who's starting out in this
industry, uh, and also just as a, as
1064
01:05:15,390 --> 01:05:19,670
a parent and a mother, just to hear
your stories has been really lovely.
1065
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,450
So I can't thank you enough.
1066
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:24,210
Is there anything else that you
feel like you'd like to share?
1067
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:26,850
James: Yeah, just quickly.
1068
01:05:26,850 --> 01:05:31,350
Christy touched on don't just
be there for a few months.
1069
01:05:31,810 --> 01:05:32,420
I think.
1070
01:05:33,860 --> 01:05:41,450
In terms of children, so when someone
dies, it's almost a novelty to them
1071
01:05:41,450 --> 01:05:46,510
because everyone's around, family,
friends, interstate, overseas, they come
1072
01:05:46,550 --> 01:05:49,550
to the funeral, they come to the wake,
they're there for the, for the family.
1073
01:05:50,190 --> 01:05:52,960
And I don't know if this is research
backed or not, but what we, what we
1074
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,810
find with, with families is that grief
really kicks a child in the pants.
1075
01:05:58,075 --> 01:06:01,745
Six months and after because
everyone literally has got on with
1076
01:06:01,775 --> 01:06:06,655
their life as you do and that's
when the child says, well, I'm not
1077
01:06:06,695 --> 01:06:07,915
the center of attention anymore.
1078
01:06:07,935 --> 01:06:12,255
No one's here, you know, family, relatives
have gone back to the home country or
1079
01:06:12,255 --> 01:06:15,185
hometown and it's just me and my family.
1080
01:06:15,185 --> 01:06:18,465
And as Christy said, everyone experienced
living in a household who were grieving.
1081
01:06:18,465 --> 01:06:22,830
It's You know, as a child, you kind
of do make that about yourself.
1082
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:28,660
So if you're going to be a good
friend or a good relative, be there
1083
01:06:28,660 --> 01:06:30,390
for more, for post the six months.
1084
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:36,590
Like that's six months is such a
blur and especially for the, for
1085
01:06:36,590 --> 01:06:39,800
the parents, but that first six
months is such a, such a blur.
1086
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,950
If you can make sure you're there post
the six months and beyond, that's,
1087
01:06:42,970 --> 01:06:45,690
that's when you're going to have real
impact, especially on the children.
1088
01:06:47,700 --> 01:06:51,480
That's in essence, that's why we, I
don't know if we still do this, but
1089
01:06:52,185 --> 01:06:56,975
That's why we don't allow kids to
come to our program straight after a
1090
01:06:56,975 --> 01:06:58,385
death, because it's just too fresh.
1091
01:06:58,685 --> 01:07:02,045
We usually wait a minimum, what,
four to six months, because that's
1092
01:07:02,045 --> 01:07:03,855
when grief is really set in.
1093
01:07:04,875 --> 01:07:06,685
The harsh reality is, is their reality.
1094
01:07:07,865 --> 01:07:09,575
Kristy: Prior to that,
they're just in shock.
1095
01:07:10,015 --> 01:07:13,285
So anything you're trying to
Feed into their little brains.
1096
01:07:13,285 --> 01:07:16,105
It's just, it's going to go
one in, in one ear and out the
1097
01:07:16,105 --> 01:07:18,665
other, so yeah, in that space.
1098
01:07:19,005 --> 01:07:20,195
Yeah, you're right James.
1099
01:07:22,175 --> 01:07:24,835
The greatest impact is
going to be the year later.
1100
01:07:25,020 --> 01:07:27,239
And I
1101
01:07:29,100 --> 01:07:33,460
Catherine: think that's really important
for people to hear because, yeah, they
1102
01:07:33,490 --> 01:07:37,480
just assumed that it's immediately
after that they need to be there to
1103
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:42,850
support the families, but thank you
for sharing that it really is not,
1104
01:07:43,170 --> 01:07:47,720
not the time where people can really,
cause as you said, they are in shock.
1105
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,530
So so much for letting us know
that it's that period after
1106
01:07:52,210 --> 01:07:53,580
that's where it really hits hard.
1107
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:54,660
Yeah.
1108
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:55,730
Pleasure.
1109
01:07:55,730 --> 01:07:55,869
Take care.
1110
01:07:57,210 --> 01:08:00,380
Well, thank you so much
again, Kristy and James.
1111
01:08:00,380 --> 01:08:01,260
I can't thank you enough.
1112
01:08:01,260 --> 01:08:02,050
It's been wonderful.
1113
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:03,510
Thanks very much.
1114
01:08:04,060 --> 01:08:04,370
Kristy: Thank you.
1115
01:08:07,540 --> 01:08:10,960
Catherine: We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,
1116
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:12,850
brought to you by Critical Info.
1117
01:08:13,790 --> 01:08:18,190
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1118
01:08:18,190 --> 01:08:20,005
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1119
01:08:20,125 --> 01:08:23,725
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1120
01:08:23,725 --> 01:08:25,495
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1121
01:08:25,675 --> 01:08:29,815
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1122
01:08:29,815 --> 01:08:31,555
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1123
01:08:31,855 --> 01:08:33,205
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1124
01:08:33,325 --> 01:08:34,315
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1125
01:08:34,315 --> 01:08:38,245
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1126
01:08:38,245 --> 01:08:44,445
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