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Sam: I had a friend who passed
away about 18 months ago.

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He was 33 and got a diagnosis
of stage four bowel cancer.

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I'd just started at Donate Life
as he was unfortunately diagnosed.

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And one of his questions to
me was like, Oh, they're not

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going to want my organs now.

6
00:00:1 ... Read More

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Sam: I had a friend who passed
away about 18 months ago.

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He was 33 and got a diagnosis
of stage four bowel cancer.

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I'd just started at Donate Life
as he was unfortunately diagnosed.

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And one of his questions to
me was like, Oh, they're not

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going to want my organs now.

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And I said, I don't know, I
haven't started my training.

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Unfortunately for him, his cancer
did progress quite quickly.

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And he did ask me that
question another time.

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And I was like, I think you
can donate your corneas.

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And he, he did, he called, he
called Donate Life and self

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consented for corneal donation.

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And then every time I visited him
after he consented, he would be

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telling me, Oh, I'm going to help
restore the sight of two people.

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It was very comforting that he was
able to make that decision, one

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on his own, and two that he had.

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the understanding and meaning
behind that he was going to

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help people in such a really sad
circumstance for him and his wife.

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Catherine: Welcome to Don't Be
Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging

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00:01:01,555 --> 00:01:05,025
open conversations about dying
and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Katherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to life.

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Because while you may not be ready
to die, at least you can be prepared.

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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations

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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.

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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging and extend

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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First Nation

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peoples around Samantha Stones is
Donation Specialist Nurse Coordinator

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who works with families who have just
received the news in hospital that

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their loved one will not survive.

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Sam is brought into this incredibly
delicate conversation with

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families in a private hospital
room and provides support.

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and information to the family so
they can make the decision that is

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best for them about donating their
loved one's organs and or tissue.

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This week is Donate Life Week and
it is about creating awareness

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for organ and tissue donation.

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So Sam is the best person for
us to speak through today.

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Sam: Thanks for being with us Sam.

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Honored to be here with you
and your listeners today to

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talk about organ donation.

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Catherine: So tell me, when did you
start working for Donate Life Victoria?

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Sam: I started working for Donate
Life Victoria about two years ago, and

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I'm looking forward to spending many
more years helping support families.

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Catherine: And what does
Donate Life Victoria do?

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Sam: So Donate Life Victoria is
the organ donation service for

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Victoria, there's each, each state
has their own organ donation service.

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Organ and tissue donation service and
we are based in hospitals across the

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state of Victoria where we work with
hospitals to support the clinicians

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in looking after families who have
a loved one at end of life care.

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We also help provide education to
all of the staff in the hospitals

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about organ and tissue donation.

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Catherine: And so you just mentioned
that you hope to have many more years

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than your two with Donut Life Victoria.

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So what is it about your job

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Sam: that makes you get
out of bed every day?

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So I find helping someone at the end of
their life an incredibly honourable job.

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And I am always in awe of our
families and their generosity.

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When I meet them, I hope that we
provide lots of comfort for our

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families when taking the time to
help them consider organ donation.

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Catherine: And tell me, can you walk
me through that process when someone

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has, uh, received the news, uh, that
they, their loved one is going to die?

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Um, Is that the point that
you meet with the families?

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Can you talk me through that process?

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Sam: So initially, a referral
is made by the treating doctors

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of that person when they believe
someone is at the end of their life.

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And once the family have acknowledged
Or accept the information that

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their loved one is going to die.

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We would have what we would
call a donation conversation.

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So I'm introduced as a, either a donation
specialist or a end of life specialist.

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And we have a conversation about talking
about the rare opportunity to help

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others through becoming an organ donor.

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We offer support in them
making that decision as well.

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If they do consent for organ
donation, we then will go through the

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donation workup process with them.

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Catherine: So what are the things you
cover off in that conversation with the

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family when you're presenting, you know,
the aspects of donating organs or tissue?

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What sort of things do you talk through?

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Sam: Uh, we talk about the rarity
of organ donation, so the, so less

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than 2 percent of people who die in
Australia are actually die in a way

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where organ donation is possible.

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So you have to be in a intensive care
unit or an ED, and you have to be

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intubated, so have a breathing tube in.

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Catherine: Yeah, right.

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I didn't realise it was
that smaller percentage.

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Sam: No, it's actually a really small
amount of people who die in a way

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where organ donation is possible.

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So it is an incredibly rare opportunity to
be able to help others through donation.

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Catherine: And why is that?

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What is it about the process
that requires those requirements?

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Sam: Uh, so to, to become an organ
donor, you need to die in a way where

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we're able to still support your
organs and tissues for the process

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of the workup of the donation.

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And that can take up to 24 to
48 hours for us to complete.

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And we also would need time
to organize the recipients.

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As well as the surgical team.

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Catherine: Yeah, right, so it's that
delay in, okay, we've got someone who

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might have this particular blood type
with this particular organ, and then

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it's finding the recipient, isn't it?

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Sam: Hmm.

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So I, I, I work directly with the donors.

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So I'm responsible for the donor workup,
which includes taking the blood type

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and doing lots of different tests,
as well as collating a medical and

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social history of the potential donor.

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And that can take some time to
get all that information across.

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And then I give that information to
the transplant teams who will then

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choose a recipient and organize
the recipient from their side.

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Yeah.

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Catherine: And that must be very
difficult because you can't, well

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I'm assuming you can't really ask
the patient what their history is.

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You're really going on the hearsay of
the family or loved ones that are around.

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Is that right?

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Sam: Yep.

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So one of the things we do is we do ask
the family a medical social questionnaire.

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It's quite extensive.

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It's 64 questions and it goes from, you
know, Uh, where they were born, to what

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type of work they did, and if they took
part in any type of risky behaviors.

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And then we marry that up with
information that we're able to

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find through medical records.

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So things like your GP history, or
if you've ever seen a specialist,

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we then look at your current blood
test results and the reason that

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you came to the hospital as well.

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Catherine: So when you're saying
those questions, it reminds me of the

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00:08:04,070 --> 00:08:08,760
questions that I normally have to go
through when I give a blood donation.

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Sam: Yes, they're very, very
similar to those questions.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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But I actually really enjoy doing the
medical social questionnaire with the

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families because it means that I get to
learn about who the donor was as a person.

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And I often hear about, all of
their travel stories and where

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they've been or when they got a
tattoo or something like that.

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And it brings out a bit of a
story about that donor, which

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I think is incredibly special.

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Catherine: And is that social
aspect captured and, and then passed

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on or documented to the donor or
the recipient of that particular?

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Organ or tissue?

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Sam: Uh, yeah.

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So organ donation is
entirely confidential.

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So whilst I gather that information,
the only information that goes to the

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transplant teams is all de identified.

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Yep.

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Families and recipients can communicate.

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Through de identified means
through Donate Life Victoria.

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So they can write letters to
each other, which are then passed

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on, which is incredibly special.

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I've seen letters from, uh, recipients
to donors dating back to when I was

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in primary school and I thought it was
just incredibly special that they had

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been communicating that entire time.

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Catherine: That's really beautiful.

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Cause really.

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From memory, and I probably should
have researched this before we

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spoke, but I remember Fiona Coote,
I believe, being the first heart

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transplant recipient in the 80s.

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Was that right?

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Sam: I'm, I'm not sure, to be, to be

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Catherine: honest.

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That's one I'll have to include
in your show notes, won't I?

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Yeah, I think so.

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I remember, for whatever reason,
I remember her name obviously

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quite, quite prominently.

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I just want to Google her now.

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Yeah, I know, I know, I feel
like we should, we can do this.

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Let's go Fiona Coote.

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and donor.

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She received her first heart
transplant, looks like Victor Chang,

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and she's the longest surviving heart
transplant recipient in Australia.

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Oh my goodness.

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When it was fledgling.

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It was when it was what, sorry?

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Fledgling.

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There you go.

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1984.

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She was a 14 year old and was struck
down by a viral infection that

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irreversibly weakened her heart.

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And she was kept alive on
total life support until Dr.

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Victor Chang performed a
successful heart transplant at

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the Business Hospital, Sydney.

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And then that heart began to fail
after two years and she received

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a second heart transplant.

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And now she's the longest surviving
heart transplant recipient in Australia

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and is living a full and happy life.

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Sam: That's amazing.

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Catherine: There you go.

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There's a, there's a
success story for you.

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Sam: Yeah.

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I hadn't heard of her before.

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You'd think I would have even made a job.

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Um.

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Having said that, it

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Catherine: was before the internet.

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Um.

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Sam: And

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Catherine: before we could Google.

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So, you know, 84.

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Sam: I, I have a, a friend who, I,
it's actually quite a cute story.

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So we met in primary school and when I
was quite little, I, she always had blue

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eyes Uh, blue lips in primary school.

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And I never knew why at the time,
cause I didn't do, um, obviously

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wasn't medical trained at that time.

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And, and then we lost
touch from primary school.

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And then I actually ran into her
when I was working in the operating

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theater before I worked for Donate
Life and she was doing one of

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00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:14,750
her final nursing placements.

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And she still had blue lips
then and we reconnected and

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she ended up going on ahead.

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I didn't, I knew that the blue lips
meant that there was probably something

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00:12:25,125 --> 00:12:29,035
wrong with her heart or lungs at
that stage, but didn't obviously ask.

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00:12:29,355 --> 00:12:35,295
And then I saw that she had actually had
a heart and lung transplant and it's just

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amazing because she's now a successful
nurse, which I think is just so special.

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00:12:41,795 --> 00:12:42,595
Catherine: Wow.

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00:12:43,085 --> 00:12:43,335
Yeah.

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Now she goes on to help others.

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00:12:45,090 --> 00:12:52,510
Sam: I think that's, yeah, really sweet
that she is able to help others and to

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00:12:52,510 --> 00:12:56,950
have known her through that journey,
I think is incredibly special as well.

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It just makes me feel that the people
that were so generous to do that.

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00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:02,900
Don't give.

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00:13:03,065 --> 00:13:11,615
I think that she recently may have
purchased her own house or something.

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00:13:11,625 --> 00:13:12,595
It was very exciting.

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00:13:12,595 --> 00:13:13,605
I saw it on Facebook.

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00:13:15,204 --> 00:13:18,604
Catherine: Because that is the
difference organ donation makes, isn't

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00:13:18,604 --> 00:13:20,504
it, whether someone lives or dies?

220
00:13:21,890 --> 00:13:25,800
Sam: Uh, yeah, it can, it definitely
can, can mean that for people.

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00:13:26,239 --> 00:13:30,859
It's life saving what donation is,
donation means to other people.

222
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,330
I have another friend who, she, we used
to work together as carers before I

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00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:38,090
grad, once again before I graduated.

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00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:42,169
And I knew that she was on sick
leave, but then one day she posted

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00:13:42,169 --> 00:13:46,329
a picture of her in the intensive
care unit and said that she had a.

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00:13:46,595 --> 00:13:49,925
Awful autoimmune disease
that attacked her liver.

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00:13:50,295 --> 00:13:53,535
She actually had a liver transplant
and she didn't want to tell anyone

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00:13:53,535 --> 00:13:57,404
she was sick because she was so scared
that she was going to pass away and

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wanted to only give people the good
news that she was going to be okay.

230
00:14:02,064 --> 00:14:05,385
And she's actually gone on to
have two Children of her own.

231
00:14:05,385 --> 00:14:07,415
She now runs a really successful business.

232
00:14:08,205 --> 00:14:11,755
And it just, you know, puts into
perspective how important and how

233
00:14:11,755 --> 00:14:14,065
life saving organ donation is.

234
00:14:15,615 --> 00:14:19,824
Catherine: And is that common for
people to feel hesitant to actually

235
00:14:19,825 --> 00:14:23,805
let people know that they do suffer
from a life limiting illness?

236
00:14:24,675 --> 00:14:29,820
Um, I need your donation and
they don't share that story.

237
00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:31,500
Just based on your personal experience.

238
00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:33,710
Sam: Just on my personal experience,

239
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:39,249
I, I'm not sure to be honest.

240
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,770
I know, I know that my friend, the one
who's had the liver transplant and the one

241
00:14:43,869 --> 00:14:47,680
who's had the heart and lung transplant
were very stoic in their illnesses.

242
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,640
I'm not sure if other people would, would
be or not, but I just remember them.

243
00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:01,020
Like, I suppose you kind of just live with
what you've got, kind of, if you like my

244
00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:04,970
friend who had the blue lips her whole
life up until she had her transplant.

245
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:08,770
I don't think she knew any different
compared to what it would feel like.

246
00:15:08,770 --> 00:15:11,170
I can't imagine what it would feel
like to take a breath the first

247
00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:15,440
time when you haven't been able to
breathe properly for your entire life.

248
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:17,500
Catherine: That's so true.

249
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:18,709
It's just what they know, isn't it?

250
00:15:19,669 --> 00:15:20,059
Sam: Yep.

251
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:23,663
Catherine: So there's probably
that innate resilience that they

252
00:15:23,663 --> 00:15:29,039
just kind of probably just go
through every day, day in, day out.

253
00:15:30,765 --> 00:15:35,365
Because without the support of
someone like DonateLive, that's

254
00:15:35,824 --> 00:15:37,549
really what they have to do.

255
00:15:39,219 --> 00:15:39,599
Sam: Yeah,

256
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:43,600
I'm so sorry.

257
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,640
I'm

258
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:52,599
Catherine: asking some questions and

259
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,380
Sam: more about recipients when
I'm, I'm more focused on the

260
00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:02,129
donors and those, those were my two
friends, but that's totally fine.

261
00:16:02,130 --> 00:16:02,779
So what led to

262
00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:06,311
Catherine: you becoming
involved in organ donation?

263
00:16:06,311 --> 00:16:09,119
So you started off as a hair, you.

264
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:13,020
And then you move in to,

265
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:14,430
Sam: to lots of roles.

266
00:16:15,090 --> 00:16:18,849
So I was a carer before I
graduated from nursing school.

267
00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:25,520
So I completed a degree in nursing
and then I, this really strong passion

268
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,009
to work in the operating theater.

269
00:16:27,549 --> 00:16:30,000
And the reason that I wanted to
work in the operating theater

270
00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:31,380
was I was actually sick as a kid.

271
00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:35,620
I didn't have a transplant, but I
was sick as a child and spent a lot

272
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:39,090
of time in the operating theater to
the point where I think I've had.

273
00:16:39,515 --> 00:16:41,265
I think 30 operations or something.

274
00:16:41,805 --> 00:16:47,845
And during my last year in high school,
I actually had a family member who, who

275
00:16:47,845 --> 00:16:54,375
passed away and they generously consented
to organ donation or my family made a

276
00:16:54,375 --> 00:16:58,984
decision for them that they had consented
for organ donation and they helped many

277
00:16:58,984 --> 00:17:01,635
people through, through organ donation.

278
00:17:02,114 --> 00:17:07,569
And I, Then when I was working in the
operating theater, I met a donation

279
00:17:07,569 --> 00:17:14,000
coordinator and I was just in awe at
about how she was able to talk to us

280
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:18,589
about something that we hadn't often seen,
even as people who work in healthcare

281
00:17:18,819 --> 00:17:21,760
and help support the, our staff.

282
00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:25,770
And then we saw the donation
operation and have assisted with it.

283
00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:29,750
And then we actually got a letter
at the end, thanking us for our,

284
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:33,435
uh, assistance in helping with
that particular organ donation.

285
00:17:33,435 --> 00:17:37,325
And I just remember thinking when I saw
her, I think I was like 21 at the time.

286
00:17:37,975 --> 00:17:41,815
I was like, what a cool job to be
able to have and to be able to support

287
00:17:42,354 --> 00:17:47,434
families that went through something
that I went through as a, as a teenager.

288
00:17:47,674 --> 00:17:52,610
And then I, I, Worked in theatre
for many years after that.

289
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:57,370
I ended up in education and research
and a few other different nursing roles.

290
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,270
And then I saw the ad for Donate Life
and I said, well, I may as well, you

291
00:18:01,270 --> 00:18:04,810
know, try to see if they'll take me.

292
00:18:04,850 --> 00:18:06,830
And I was successful.

293
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:07,250
Yeah.

294
00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:08,590
Catherine: And who gave

295
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:12,209
Sam: you that letter after you'd
been involved in the operation?

296
00:18:12,209 --> 00:18:16,040
So the letter was given to me by
the nurse unit manager at the time.

297
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,889
And it was from that donor coordinator
who actually still works for Donate Life.

298
00:18:20,820 --> 00:18:21,750
Catherine: Oh, wow.

299
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:22,280
Yep.

300
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:29,229
You know, I know when you're going
through that training, you are almost

301
00:18:29,290 --> 00:18:34,059
desensitized because you're seeing so
many operations and so many different

302
00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:36,550
procedures and you become familiar.

303
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,110
But to actually receive a
beautiful letter, that must

304
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:43,000
have been really quite amazing.

305
00:18:43,795 --> 00:18:47,555
Sam: Yeah, I, I think she helped
three people through donation,

306
00:18:47,665 --> 00:18:49,245
the lady that I was involved with.

307
00:18:49,655 --> 00:18:52,425
It's actually one of my favorite
parts of the job now, writing those

308
00:18:52,425 --> 00:18:56,315
letters to thank all the staff
for their assistance in donation.

309
00:18:56,355 --> 00:18:59,925
Like I said, the workup can
take quite a while to do, so.

310
00:19:01,205 --> 00:19:01,264
Catherine: That's so

311
00:19:01,495 --> 00:19:01,794
Sam: funny,

312
00:19:02,044 --> 00:19:05,364
Catherine: so you have done a
full circle, and now you're the

313
00:19:05,364 --> 00:19:07,564
one that writes those letters.

314
00:19:08,125 --> 00:19:10,794
Sam: Yeah, I, I'm about to
write a few letters today.

315
00:19:10,794 --> 00:19:16,334
I've got a few due actually, where I will
be thanking the police for helping me with

316
00:19:16,334 --> 00:19:22,004
transporting bloods to the hospital staff
for helping with doing tests and the organ

317
00:19:22,004 --> 00:19:24,944
donation operation, as well as writing.

318
00:19:24,954 --> 00:19:27,784
We also write letters to the families
to give them some information

319
00:19:27,794 --> 00:19:29,245
about the recipients as well.

320
00:19:30,645 --> 00:19:35,695
Catherine: That's amazing because all
of these first responders and those

321
00:19:35,745 --> 00:19:38,334
in care roles that you mentioned.

322
00:19:39,095 --> 00:19:41,465
That's just part of their
everyday life, isn't it?

323
00:19:42,324 --> 00:19:47,784
So for them to receive a thank you out
of the blue must be pretty amazing.

324
00:19:48,995 --> 00:19:50,034
Sam: I would like to hope so.

325
00:19:50,514 --> 00:19:55,714
And it just shows you that they're so
much willing, so willing to help when

326
00:19:55,715 --> 00:19:59,975
it comes to something that's so rare and
has such a profound impact on people.

327
00:20:00,505 --> 00:20:04,315
Like just yesterday, not yesterday,
the day before yesterday, I was on

328
00:20:04,315 --> 00:20:09,865
call and I had to call in an entire
team to do a particular test and

329
00:20:09,865 --> 00:20:14,335
they were more than happy to come in
to help facilitate that, to fulfill

330
00:20:14,335 --> 00:20:16,875
that family's wish of organ donation.

331
00:20:17,855 --> 00:20:21,644
And that person went on to donate and.

332
00:20:22,545 --> 00:20:27,655
Uh, I think it's, he donated, they
donated four or five organs in the end.

333
00:20:27,885 --> 00:20:28,205
Yeah.

334
00:20:28,785 --> 00:20:29,975
Just so incredibly generous.

335
00:20:30,645 --> 00:20:34,155
Catherine: And those four
or five organs could go on

336
00:20:34,224 --> 00:20:36,175
potentially to how many people?

337
00:20:37,795 --> 00:20:38,794
Four or five people.

338
00:20:39,305 --> 00:20:42,274
Sam: So an organ donor can save
the lives of up to seven people.

339
00:20:42,345 --> 00:20:42,665
Yeah.

340
00:20:42,724 --> 00:20:42,814
Wow.

341
00:20:43,095 --> 00:20:47,565
That person donated their heart,
their liver, their kidneys.

342
00:20:50,545 --> 00:20:54,965
Catherine: The ripple effect
and the life changing aspects of

343
00:20:54,995 --> 00:20:57,795
the work you do is mind blowing.

344
00:20:59,004 --> 00:21:03,615
Like, do you know, has there been
research done on how far that

345
00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:09,245
kind of impact of improving life,
And loved ones has been done.

346
00:21:11,004 --> 00:21:12,325
Sam: Oh, that's a very good question.

347
00:21:12,325 --> 00:21:17,594
I know that Donate Life has done a
study on the impact of organ donation.

348
00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:22,445
It's called, I think it's called the Wave
Study, and it tells us a bit about why

349
00:21:22,445 --> 00:21:26,765
people choose organ donation and what
they remember from their conversations

350
00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:30,735
and what of the things is that they
find a lot of comfort in knowing that

351
00:21:30,735 --> 00:21:32,685
they've been able to help other people.

352
00:21:33,135 --> 00:21:38,075
In a really sad time, they've been able
to help and provides comfort to them.

353
00:21:39,585 --> 00:21:42,985
Catherine: And has there ever been
anyone that has actually said,

354
00:21:43,295 --> 00:21:45,155
no, I'm not comfortable with that?

355
00:21:45,794 --> 00:21:48,524
Like, how do you navigate
that sort of situation?

356
00:21:49,254 --> 00:21:51,259
Sam: Not comfortable with organ donation?

357
00:21:51,259 --> 00:21:55,913
Well, I think the first part of that
is establishing or making sure that

358
00:21:55,913 --> 00:22:00,568
the patient knows or the family knows
that I'm, I'm actually on their team.

359
00:22:00,568 --> 00:22:03,559
I just want to make sure that they make.

360
00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:07,800
a informed decision about organ donation.

361
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,670
And I know that there's a lot of myths
in the community about organ donation.

362
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,229
So I will thank them for letting me know
that they're not comfortable about it.

363
00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:22,269
And I will, I will gently ask them,
you know, can you tell me a little bit

364
00:22:22,269 --> 00:22:28,080
more about why You're uncomfortable or
if there's anything I can do to help

365
00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:31,320
make sure that they have all the right
information to make that decision.

366
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,960
Just one example of that is I
recently had a donor who injected.

367
00:22:37,525 --> 00:22:44,495
Drugs and the, then the next of kin
initially declined donation because

368
00:22:44,495 --> 00:22:48,205
they thought it wouldn't be safe because
he, they knew that they injected drugs,

369
00:22:48,585 --> 00:22:49,965
but that's not actually the case.

370
00:22:50,435 --> 00:22:54,785
And I explained that to them and they
then actually just said, that, oh,

371
00:22:54,785 --> 00:22:59,655
if that's still, if it's safe and
it'll be safe for the recipients,

372
00:22:59,655 --> 00:23:00,885
then yes, of course we would.

373
00:23:00,885 --> 00:23:05,104
I was just worried that it wouldn't
be safe because of the, the drug

374
00:23:05,105 --> 00:23:07,895
injecting or, or they wouldn't
be able to donate because of

375
00:23:07,905 --> 00:23:09,645
the drug injecting, for example.

376
00:23:10,794 --> 00:23:15,855
Catherine: And what are some of the other
common myths that you find that people

377
00:23:15,855 --> 00:23:19,895
have in their head about the reasons
why they, they perhaps are hesitant?

378
00:23:21,145 --> 00:23:22,525
Sam: Uh, it could be.

379
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,300
that they think they're too old.

380
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,650
That's very rarely the case.

381
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:30,680
We have people who can donate
up to the age of 80, even older.

382
00:23:31,020 --> 00:23:35,500
It really depends on their health
history or they might think that they

383
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,400
might look different after donation.

384
00:23:37,930 --> 00:23:44,710
Donation operations are done with
exceptionally highly qualified surgeons

385
00:23:45,129 --> 00:23:53,300
who the care and dignity of our donors is
our utmost, of our most highest priority.

386
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:59,089
Catherine: So if people had concerns about
donating their organs and, oh my goodness,

387
00:23:59,089 --> 00:24:04,159
we won't be able to have an open coffin
or a viewing, that's not the case, is it?

388
00:24:04,229 --> 00:24:05,669
Sam: Yeah, that's an absolute no.

389
00:24:06,145 --> 00:24:10,635
Uh, myth, you can still have an
open, an open, um, casket at your

390
00:24:10,655 --> 00:24:14,985
end of life ceremony or funeral
or celebration of life there.

391
00:24:15,405 --> 00:24:19,265
Once you're dressed for your funeral, no
one would know that you've been a donor.

392
00:24:21,215 --> 00:24:21,655
Catherine: Yeah.

393
00:24:21,925 --> 00:24:27,144
I think that's a good one to
cover up on and about religion.

394
00:24:27,374 --> 00:24:31,535
Some people say that, you
know, Buddhism, Hinduism.

395
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,870
But they aren't barriers to
organ donation, are they?

396
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:41,900
Sam: No, religion is certainly
not a barrier to organ donation.

397
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:46,399
Some people may think that because they
follow a particular religion that they

398
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,459
can't donate, but we actually know that
most religions support organ donation.

399
00:24:51,949 --> 00:24:57,055
And if that is a concern for a family,
I would offer to Get their religious

400
00:24:57,055 --> 00:25:02,175
leader if they're comfortable to have
a conversation with us about donation.

401
00:25:03,545 --> 00:25:03,795
That's

402
00:25:03,905 --> 00:25:04,525
Catherine: fantastic.

403
00:25:04,655 --> 00:25:09,934
So being in that expert within
that, the religious space to have

404
00:25:09,935 --> 00:25:11,423
those conversations is fantastic.

405
00:25:11,423 --> 00:25:11,796
Yeah.

406
00:25:11,796 --> 00:25:12,168
And

407
00:25:12,168 --> 00:25:17,284
Sam: if, if a family has a particular
requirement, I recently had a donor

408
00:25:17,624 --> 00:25:19,854
who was, I believe of Muslim faith.

409
00:25:20,294 --> 00:25:24,284
And I asked the family, what's
the most important thing for you?

410
00:25:24,784 --> 00:25:25,714
And they said to me that.

411
00:25:26,324 --> 00:25:30,384
The most important thing for us is that
this is done as quickly as possible so

412
00:25:30,435 --> 00:25:32,915
that that person can go to the mosque.

413
00:25:33,385 --> 00:25:35,054
And I said, okay, sure.

414
00:25:35,145 --> 00:25:40,384
And I made sure that everything happened
as efficiently as possible so that we

415
00:25:40,384 --> 00:25:43,784
could fulfill that wish of that person
going to the mosque as soon as possible.

416
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,370
Catherine: Can you talk
me through the process?

417
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:54,529
You have a conversation, you do their
work up with their bloods, et cetera.

418
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,460
Uh, there's that period of delay
or possible delay depending

419
00:25:59,460 --> 00:26:01,100
on finding the recipient.

420
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,860
What happens then?

421
00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:06,950
What's the process for
family to say goodbye?

422
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:09,850
What, what sort of options are they given?

423
00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:12,940
Sam: Well, firstly, there is,
there is a consent process.

424
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,350
In there, after the family verbally
agreed a donation, where we talk about

425
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:21,180
the medical social questionnaire,
so that takes about an hour to do.

426
00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:23,180
We go into quite a lot of detail.

427
00:26:23,689 --> 00:26:28,079
In terms of saying goodbye to their
loved one, there's no right or

428
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,619
wrong time for them to say goodbye.

429
00:26:30,959 --> 00:26:34,140
We encourage them, if they would
like to, to stay, stay with their

430
00:26:34,140 --> 00:26:35,520
loved one as long as they can.

431
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,100
There is two different
pathways to donation.

432
00:26:39,730 --> 00:26:43,980
So there's one where someone is
declared brain dead, and they can

433
00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:47,420
stay with that person up until
they go to the operating theatre.

434
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:51,459
And in the other pathway,
it's, their death is determined

435
00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:55,030
by their heart stopping, so
cardiac determination of death.

436
00:26:56,350 --> 00:26:58,889
And with that one, once again,
the family can still be there.

437
00:26:59,755 --> 00:27:03,094
Uh, right up until it's time to go
to the operating theater, it just

438
00:27:03,125 --> 00:27:07,515
looks a little bit different in
terms of the timings, that's all.

439
00:27:09,605 --> 00:27:09,885
Catherine: And is it

440
00:27:10,375 --> 00:27:12,304
Sam: longer or shorter or?

441
00:27:12,854 --> 00:27:17,864
So, when someone is declared brain dead,
they will go to the operating theater

442
00:27:18,385 --> 00:27:24,425
with the breathing tube still in and their
heart will stop in the operating theater.

443
00:27:24,625 --> 00:27:29,255
With cardiac death, the
breathing tube is taken out.

444
00:27:29,775 --> 00:27:33,935
In the intensive care unit, and the
family can still be there for that.

445
00:27:34,375 --> 00:27:39,145
Once their heart has stopped, there's
a brief period to say goodbye.

446
00:27:39,525 --> 00:27:42,504
And by brief, I mean five
minutes, and then that person

447
00:27:42,504 --> 00:27:44,735
will be taken to their donation.

448
00:27:46,024 --> 00:27:49,955
Catherine: And I'm assuming that's
because there's that very, short

449
00:27:49,985 --> 00:27:55,945
time frame to then get the organ out
while the blood's still circulating?

450
00:27:55,955 --> 00:27:56,445
Sam: Would that be

451
00:27:56,445 --> 00:27:57,215
Catherine: right or?

452
00:27:57,825 --> 00:28:02,245
Sam: Uh, the blood would have stopped
circulating, but yes, essentially,

453
00:28:02,254 --> 00:28:06,884
it's about how long the organs would
have oxygen or be without oxygen for.

454
00:28:07,625 --> 00:28:08,055
Catherine: Okay.

455
00:28:08,334 --> 00:28:08,524
Yeah.

456
00:28:08,944 --> 00:28:13,753
And tell me, how do you support
the family through this process?

457
00:28:13,753 --> 00:28:14,431
So,

458
00:28:14,431 --> 00:28:19,810
Sam: um, We, I'm pretty, when I
speak to the families, I go through

459
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,950
the entire process and I explain at
different points what, what will happen

460
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:26,660
or what it would be like to happen.

461
00:28:27,149 --> 00:28:32,090
And then I gently remind them as we
get closer to the time of donation.

462
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:37,810
So, for example, if it's the cardiac
death pathway, I would say, we're almost

463
00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:39,760
ready to take the breathing tube out.

464
00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:43,130
We're going to make sure your
loved one is comfortable.

465
00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:46,280
And then when the, when, sorry.

466
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:51,110
And when it's time to go to the operating
theater, I will come into the room and I

467
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:53,210
will be with them the entire way through.

468
00:28:55,140 --> 00:29:00,509
That is, if there's any question they
have at any point in time, I just

469
00:29:00,509 --> 00:29:02,519
address that question at that point.

470
00:29:06,669 --> 00:29:12,339
Catherine: And tell me, how
do you suggest people support.

471
00:29:13,465 --> 00:29:21,294
Those loved ones in that process,
because it's obviously highly emotional.

472
00:29:21,825 --> 00:29:24,695
They have to make that conscious decision.

473
00:29:25,194 --> 00:29:32,494
And how do you, you know, friends and
family outside that, that intimate

474
00:29:32,495 --> 00:29:35,165
circle, how can we support people?

475
00:29:38,855 --> 00:29:39,735
Sam: It's a very good question.

476
00:29:39,895 --> 00:29:44,404
I think for those people who are
helping support a loved one, who's

477
00:29:44,405 --> 00:29:46,825
got a, person going through donation.

478
00:29:46,865 --> 00:29:51,915
I think allowing them some space
and time to ventilate whatever

479
00:29:52,215 --> 00:29:53,625
is going through their mind.

480
00:29:54,385 --> 00:29:59,105
It can be, a lot of people say it can be
difficult to see someone on a ventilator

481
00:29:59,215 --> 00:30:04,255
and I completely agree, but Those
people, the donors, we, like I said,

482
00:30:04,255 --> 00:30:08,975
our highest priority is to make sure
that they are comfortable and that they

483
00:30:08,985 --> 00:30:11,005
have a dignified and respectable death.

484
00:30:11,215 --> 00:30:15,345
So we ensure that they've,
they've got pain relief if they

485
00:30:15,345 --> 00:30:17,955
need it, that they're warm.

486
00:30:18,305 --> 00:30:21,505
For example, if that's something
that's important to the family,

487
00:30:22,035 --> 00:30:25,715
a lot of my, my family's tell me
that they don't have time to eat or

488
00:30:25,715 --> 00:30:27,265
they don't feel like they can eat.

489
00:30:27,905 --> 00:30:28,235
Sorry.

490
00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:33,010
As someone who's helped support
other family members going through

491
00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:34,870
deaths, bringing them some food.

492
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:36,540
They might not feel like eating it.

493
00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:40,680
Even a coffee, also, also can help.

494
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:45,510
Or giving them some space to go out, leave
the intensive care unit if they want to.

495
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:50,095
If they're worried about their loved one
being alone in the hospital, maybe you

496
00:30:50,095 --> 00:30:52,691
could offer to come in and sit with them.

497
00:30:52,691 --> 00:30:56,152
So they can go home and
have a shower or a sleep.

498
00:30:56,152 --> 00:30:59,613
Catherine: Because it is a very
intensive, sort of short window, isn't it?

499
00:30:59,613 --> 00:31:00,189
Mm hmm.

500
00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:08,160
And more intensive, yeah, than
perhaps people who have been

501
00:31:08,180 --> 00:31:10,590
given a life limiting illness.

502
00:31:12,770 --> 00:31:17,530
Is it correct to think, say, or
thinking that a lot of the time

503
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:24,620
this 2 percent may be because of
an accident or an unexpected death?

504
00:31:26,850 --> 00:31:31,120
Sam: They most certainly can be from
an accident or an unexpected death.

505
00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:36,700
It can also be something that's become
complicated, some health condition

506
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:40,630
that's become complicated and ended
up that they, um, They've ended in ICU

507
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,620
and, uh, going through end of life care.

508
00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:51,670
In terms of what disease processes or
anything like that that would exclude

509
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:53,690
donation, there's not actually that many.

510
00:31:54,120 --> 00:32:01,540
The only one would be a blood
cancer, um, or cancer that's spread.

511
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:06,660
However, people who have cancer
that's spread, so metastatic

512
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,750
cancer, they can still actually
donate their corneal Tissue.

513
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,180
So their eye tissue, which
I think is just amazing.

514
00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:18,050
I had a friend who passed
away about 18 months ago.

515
00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:23,650
He was 33 and got a diagnosis
of stage four bowel cancer, and

516
00:32:23,650 --> 00:32:24,859
it was actually pretty amazing.

517
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,200
Must have been over 18 months ago because
it was, I just started at Donate Life as

518
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,880
he, as he was unfortunately diagnosed.

519
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:36,030
And one of his questions to
me was like, Oh, they're not

520
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:37,390
going to want my organs now.

521
00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:38,800
And I said, I don't know.

522
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,190
I haven't started my training.

523
00:32:42,170 --> 00:32:42,490
Good answer.

524
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:47,219
I'll come back to you.

525
00:32:47,220 --> 00:32:48,710
I'll come back in six months.

526
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:52,270
Unfortunately for him, his cancer
did progress quite quickly.

527
00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:52,480
And.

528
00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:59,840
He did ask me that question another
time and I remember I was in, I

529
00:32:59,850 --> 00:33:04,160
don't know how to put it other than
I was in friend mode, not nurse mode.

530
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:06,060
They're two different people in my brain.

531
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:09,490
And he saw the look on my face and he's
like, I can't donate anything, can I?

532
00:33:09,490 --> 00:33:12,175
And I was like, look, I think
you can actually, I think

533
00:33:12,175 --> 00:33:13,320
you can donate your corneas.

534
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:19,110
But I, I'm, I'm in friend mode, so you'll
have to just get your doctor to call the

535
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:20,840
number if it's something that you want.

536
00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:27,420
And he, he did, he called, he
called Donate Life and self

537
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:29,610
consented for corneal donation.

538
00:33:30,090 --> 00:33:36,820
And then every time I visited him
after he consented for his donation, he

539
00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:40,340
would be telling me, Oh, I'm going to
help restore the sight of two people.

540
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,970
Even though he was, you know, admitted
to hospital, wasn't going home, that

541
00:33:44,970 --> 00:33:49,630
was like, it was very comforting that
he was able to make that decision,

542
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,840
one, on his own, and two, that he
had the understanding and meaning

543
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,290
behind, you That he was going to
help people in such a really sad

544
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,550
circumstance for him and his wife.

545
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,260
Catherine: And tell me, how do
people nominate to be an organ donor?

546
00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:12,390
Like, I think it used to be through
the driver's license and that's

547
00:34:12,410 --> 00:34:14,270
processed change now, has it?

548
00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:18,880
Sam: Yeah, so unless you live
in South Australia, you can't

549
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:21,270
register on your driver's license.

550
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:24,370
Registration is actually really simple.

551
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:27,530
So you can do it on the donatelife.

552
00:34:27,530 --> 00:34:28,459
gov.

553
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:31,730
au website or the Express
Plus Medicare app.

554
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,320
It only takes, I think, three taps or
three clicks to get there to do it.

555
00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:41,230
My, my father in law, actually, when I
started this job or told him that I'd just

556
00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:43,570
got been successful in the application.

557
00:34:43,570 --> 00:34:45,020
He said to me, I have an organ donor.

558
00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:45,900
And I said, are you sure?

559
00:34:46,410 --> 00:34:50,330
And he, we pulled up his Medicare app
and he actually wasn't registered,

560
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:52,290
even though he thought he had.

561
00:34:52,290 --> 00:34:56,590
So I think the most important thing is to
check if you want to be an organ donor,

562
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:59,860
to make sure that you're registered to
check on the Medicare app, if you are,

563
00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:05,150
and then to tell your family about it
too, so that they know if they ever

564
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,400
have to make that decision for you.

565
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:07,950
I

566
00:35:07,950 --> 00:35:12,930
Catherine: know when I heard this one
about the driver's license, I went

567
00:35:12,930 --> 00:35:18,130
back and it was through my Gov app
that I must have accessed the Medicare

568
00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:22,290
and made sure that I was registered.

569
00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:29,465
Uh, and, Well, there's no surprise
that there's plenty of conversations

570
00:35:29,845 --> 00:35:34,045
in our house about death and
our intentions and our wishes.

571
00:35:34,795 --> 00:35:39,675
So the whole family knows exactly
what, you know, I want to do.

572
00:35:39,915 --> 00:35:45,745
So, but, but do you find when you're
talking with families, how many

573
00:35:45,785 --> 00:35:48,035
people have had that conversation?

574
00:35:49,685 --> 00:35:53,850
Sam: So not, Many at all actually have
had that conversation about whether

575
00:35:53,850 --> 00:35:55,650
they want to be a donor or not.

576
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:58,940
And we know that if you do have
that conversation, it makes that

577
00:35:58,940 --> 00:36:03,390
decision so much easier for your
loved one who's going through.

578
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:07,050
unmeasurable grief in that moment.

579
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,570
Those conversations, I, I understand
in, in our culture, we don't like

580
00:36:12,610 --> 00:36:16,710
talking about death, but it's often
one of the most important conversations

581
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,030
someone could actually have.

582
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,630
And it doesn't have to be, you
know, an extensive conversation.

583
00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:24,725
It could just be, you know, You
know, slip it in, but you've

584
00:36:24,725 --> 00:36:26,925
registered like at the dinner table.

585
00:36:26,975 --> 00:36:27,665
Oh, thanks.

586
00:36:27,695 --> 00:36:28,645
Can you pass the peas?

587
00:36:28,655 --> 00:36:31,235
By the way, I'm a registered organ donor.

588
00:36:32,615 --> 00:36:33,625
If that ever comes up.

589
00:36:35,065 --> 00:36:35,845
Catherine: I love that.

590
00:36:36,055 --> 00:36:41,985
And I always say those conversations are
perfect for the car, captive audience.

591
00:36:42,685 --> 00:36:43,765
They have to listen.

592
00:36:44,385 --> 00:36:44,845
Sam: They do.

593
00:36:45,295 --> 00:36:45,665
Yep.

594
00:36:46,165 --> 00:36:49,345
Even myself, my partner
definitely knows my wishes.

595
00:36:49,555 --> 00:36:53,485
But I know that the other family members
don't like having those conversations.

596
00:36:53,515 --> 00:36:56,565
And unfortunately, having
me as their family member,

597
00:36:58,785 --> 00:37:01,205
they have, they have had
to have that conversation.

598
00:37:02,835 --> 00:37:02,975
Catherine: Yeah,

599
00:37:03,225 --> 00:37:03,565
Sam: I

600
00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:06,415
Catherine: love that, but
we can't all have you, Sam.

601
00:37:07,205 --> 00:37:11,095
So, uh, we all need to have those
conversations with our own families.

602
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,699
And, well, let's talk about
some of the other myths that

603
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:18,110
may be around organ donation.

604
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:24,640
So have you heard any stories about
muscle memory or, again, this is,

605
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:29,719
you're from the donor side, this is
more from the recipient side, so you

606
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:35,222
may not be aware, but have you heard
any stories about any organs that have

607
00:37:35,222 --> 00:37:41,560
the recipients taken on and they find
that they don't get humped or something?

608
00:37:41,810 --> 00:37:45,830
Sam: Now, I've only heard a few
of those stories through the media

609
00:37:45,860 --> 00:37:49,460
and I still think that those are
kind of incredibly special that

610
00:37:49,470 --> 00:37:51,480
those type of things may happen.

611
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,220
I don't know whether there
is any scientific, you know,

612
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,990
basis of those types of things.

613
00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:02,490
I think the most recent one that
I've heard was a recipient all

614
00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:07,360
of a sudden really hated, I think
it was garlic, hated garlic.

615
00:38:07,625 --> 00:38:08,565
Had a transplant.

616
00:38:08,605 --> 00:38:13,755
Absolutely loved garlic from, you know,
the moment that they had their transplant

617
00:38:13,765 --> 00:38:17,820
done, which I think is It's a special
thing that to have that, to be able

618
00:38:17,820 --> 00:38:19,330
to share that connection with someone.

619
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:20,010
Yeah.

620
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:22,460
But I'm not aware of any scientific basis.

621
00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:23,050
That was,

622
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:26,390
Catherine: that was Sam
as the friend, non, you

623
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:27,239
Sam: know,

624
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:27,520
Catherine: nurse.

625
00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:27,990
Yeah.

626
00:38:31,210 --> 00:38:33,080
Now tell me how, how did you get to this?

627
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:39,450
If you were saying that donate life is
sort of the conduit, if the recipient

628
00:38:39,530 --> 00:38:45,660
and the families of the donor want to
communicate, so how does that happen?

629
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:47,040
Talk me through that.

630
00:38:47,530 --> 00:38:51,400
Sam: So what would happen is either
the donor or the recipient would

631
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,290
write a letter, they can send
gifts if they want to as well.

632
00:38:55,470 --> 00:38:59,770
The letter is then checked to make
sure that there's no identifying.

633
00:39:00,350 --> 00:39:05,070
Elements to it is then passed
on by, I believe our support

634
00:39:05,090 --> 00:39:07,290
coordinator to the other person.

635
00:39:07,290 --> 00:39:11,350
So either the corresponding
donor or recipient from there,

636
00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:16,320
there's also a service of
remembrance that we have each year.

637
00:39:16,350 --> 00:39:20,140
I believe it's in November where
donor families and recipients can

638
00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:22,730
come to pay respect to our donors.

639
00:39:24,330 --> 00:39:25,010
Oh, that's really

640
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:25,460
Catherine: beautiful.

641
00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:26,250
Where's that held?

642
00:39:27,295 --> 00:39:28,945
Sam: I believe it's held in Melbourne.

643
00:39:28,945 --> 00:39:33,415
It's held at Melbourne Town Hall, but
there's one in each corresponding state,

644
00:39:33,415 --> 00:39:37,005
which is, you can find more information
out on the Donate Life website.

645
00:39:37,975 --> 00:39:38,545
Catherine: That's great.

646
00:39:38,565 --> 00:39:42,075
And what we'll do is we'll include those
links in the show notes, because that's

647
00:39:42,525 --> 00:39:48,695
really beautiful because when you think
2 percent of the population that gets

648
00:39:48,695 --> 00:39:53,655
to give this gift to the ability to
come together and talk with others, it

649
00:39:53,965 --> 00:39:56,485
must be very valuable for those people.

650
00:39:57,180 --> 00:40:01,410
Sam: Yeah, and to be able to share
their experiences as, as a loved one

651
00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:06,710
of a donor or to be able to show, you
know, that they're doing really well

652
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:11,170
with their, their transplant, for
example, it would be incredibly special.

653
00:40:11,170 --> 00:40:12,120
I don't think I've ever.

654
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:17,060
heard of someone going to one of
those services of remembrance without

655
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,840
having a, having a little tear.

656
00:40:19,870 --> 00:40:20,390
Catherine: Yes.

657
00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:22,730
I could imagine it
would be very emotional.

658
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:27,700
And what do you feel do for yourself, Sam?

659
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:32,470
Because you're really in
amongst it with the families.

660
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:33,820
the entire time.

661
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:38,750
What do you do for yourself,
uh, for your own self care?

662
00:40:39,830 --> 00:40:41,430
Sam: Uh, that's a, that's a good question.

663
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:43,750
I love a bit of crafting, to be honest.

664
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:45,790
I'm currently trying to learn how to sew.

665
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:50,730
Uh, it's not going well, but
it's at least fun to try.

666
00:40:51,020 --> 00:40:52,400
At least you're trying.

667
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:52,940
Yeah.

668
00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:57,690
My, I, my, sibling who donated.

669
00:40:57,890 --> 00:41:03,670
We often will chat about her around her
anniversary of donation and we light a

670
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:05,980
candle and think about her in that way.

671
00:41:06,010 --> 00:41:06,790
And we do the same.

672
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,090
My father passed away 10
years ago, very suddenly.

673
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:10,400
So we do something similar to him.

674
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,690
And I just acknowledge that while I
have grief from my own family members

675
00:41:15,690 --> 00:41:17,870
passing away, that I'm offering.

676
00:41:18,260 --> 00:41:22,240
a small part of comfort
to our donors families.

677
00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:25,870
So I keep that in mind that I'm
helping support them in their grief.

678
00:41:26,530 --> 00:41:28,180
And it's not, it's not my grief.

679
00:41:28,180 --> 00:41:30,220
My grief is separate to theirs.

680
00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:31,770
I'm not sure if that makes sense.

681
00:41:32,910 --> 00:41:37,910
Catherine: No, it seems to because
you were talking about how you make

682
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:39,610
sure that you have different hats.

683
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,520
When you're in different
parts of your life,

684
00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:46,320
Sam: yeah, so there's nurse,
nurse mode and Sam mode.

685
00:41:47,830 --> 00:41:48,810
Catherine: No, I like that.

686
00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:54,480
And sometimes that's a survival mechanism
of having those compartmentalized

687
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:57,070
and running concurrently together.

688
00:41:58,005 --> 00:42:02,755
Sam: Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily
mean that I don't give my 100

689
00:42:02,755 --> 00:42:07,465
percent to every donor family that
I have, but I, yeah, that's just

690
00:42:07,465 --> 00:42:09,415
how I separate the two in my life.

691
00:42:09,415 --> 00:42:10,654
Well,

692
00:42:10,835 --> 00:42:14,525
Catherine: I think it's valuable
to actually have boundaries, uh,

693
00:42:14,575 --> 00:42:17,925
so you can continue to do this
for a very long period of time.

694
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:18,940
Sam: Yeah.

695
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:19,720
Thank you.

696
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:23,740
I also just make sure I exercise and eat
healthy, but they're the, you know, the

697
00:42:23,740 --> 00:42:25,760
boring parts of self care, I suppose.

698
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:27,690
Catherine: Yeah.

699
00:42:28,170 --> 00:42:32,560
Everyone wants to hear there's just a
magic wand and it's not based on eating

700
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,050
properly, sleeping well and exercise.

701
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:37,680
Sam: It's

702
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:38,090
Catherine: definitely

703
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:38,620
Sam: sewing.

704
00:42:41,770 --> 00:42:41,990
Catherine: Yeah.

705
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:42,860
That's it.

706
00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:43,360
Yeah.

707
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,540
But it'll be the thing
that'll get you through.

708
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:46,580
Yeah.

709
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:51,210
And then tell me, from your perspective,
what do you think are the most significant

710
00:42:51,210 --> 00:42:57,170
challenges that the, the loved ones
face when they're in this situation?

711
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,870
Sam: I think the decision becomes
harder if they don't know what their

712
00:43:01,870 --> 00:43:06,120
loved one wants in terms of donation,
whether that's they haven't registered

713
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:11,080
themselves or they haven't had a
conversation about donation, because

714
00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:14,750
then they're asked to make a decision
on their behalf and, and They have never

715
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:16,670
had that opportunity to talk about it.

716
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,890
And also going through that at a time
of acute grief, when you may, may have

717
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,240
not had the chance to have that last
conversation or that last goodbye.

718
00:43:29,790 --> 00:43:34,010
It certainly makes it easier if they,
they have had some type of conversation.

719
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,510
There was a donor recently where.

720
00:43:38,185 --> 00:43:40,965
The donor themselves wasn't
actually registered, which

721
00:43:40,965 --> 00:43:42,875
is not uncommon in Victoria.

722
00:43:42,875 --> 00:43:45,685
Only 22 percent of people are
registered and that's why we

723
00:43:46,085 --> 00:43:49,965
encourage everyone to get to register
themselves and have that conversation.

724
00:43:50,405 --> 00:43:53,925
But they'd actually had a
conversation with their family.

725
00:43:54,195 --> 00:43:56,279
They had a baby via IVF.

726
00:43:56,510 --> 00:44:01,180
And they said to their family that
because someone helped me conceive

727
00:44:01,180 --> 00:44:05,190
my, my little love, I want to help pay
it forward if that ever happened to

728
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:11,450
me so that her family, sorry, their
family knew that without a doubt that

729
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:15,300
they wanted to be a donor, which made
that decision so much easier for them.

730
00:44:17,410 --> 00:44:18,560
Catherine: Yeah, that's beautiful.

731
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:26,395
And how has the last two years
shaped or molded you, you know,

732
00:44:26,395 --> 00:44:27,955
with your own thought about death?

733
00:44:29,765 --> 00:44:33,795
Sam: Well, I think I've got a
healthy appreciation that death

734
00:44:33,795 --> 00:44:38,445
is, is inevitable to enjoy all
the moments in your life, even the

735
00:44:38,515 --> 00:44:41,305
sitting on the couch, eating M& Ms.

736
00:44:42,925 --> 00:44:50,795
And I've made sure that if I was ever in
a position where I was being considered.

737
00:44:51,465 --> 00:44:57,945
As a potential organ donor, my family,
everyone in my life knows that I would,

738
00:44:58,045 --> 00:45:02,325
I would a hundred percent say yes, I've
even considered not that I can actually

739
00:45:02,325 --> 00:45:05,345
do this, but I've even considered like,
maybe I'd just fill out the consent

740
00:45:05,345 --> 00:45:07,995
for myself so that they have it.

741
00:45:08,005 --> 00:45:11,635
So it's abundantly clear, but I am
registered and my family do know.

742
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,730
Catherine: Well, it looks like you've
taken your own advice very well and done

743
00:45:18,730 --> 00:45:24,500
everything you possibly can to ensure that
that happens should the situation arise.

744
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:26,950
Thank you, yep.

745
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:31,610
And is there any advice or
encouragement that you'd like to share?

746
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:38,800
Sam: To, Consider what you would want
in terms of organ donation, knowing

747
00:45:38,810 --> 00:45:43,090
that you could help, help save the lives
of up to seven people, how rare it is,

748
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:47,650
and take that time to do those three
taps to register on the Medicare app.

749
00:45:48,070 --> 00:45:52,490
And then to tell your family when you
have them as a captive audience, like you

750
00:45:52,490 --> 00:45:54,310
said, in the car or something like that.

751
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:57,750
It is a difficult conversation,
but it's one of the most important

752
00:45:57,780 --> 00:45:59,100
things you can do to help.

753
00:45:59,670 --> 00:46:02,800
Give someone a second chance, um, at life.

754
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:05,240
Catherine: That's beautiful, Sam.

755
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:08,260
I can't thank you enough
for being with us today.

756
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:11,780
And do you say Happy

757
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,680
Sam: Donate Life Week?

758
00:46:14,530 --> 00:46:16,420
We can say Happy Donate Life Week.

759
00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:21,350
We could also say, hang on, I'm
just, there's a note above my head.

760
00:46:21,420 --> 00:46:22,618
One second.

761
00:46:22,618 --> 00:46:24,614
Yep, good.

762
00:46:24,895 --> 00:46:30,145
Uh, this Donate Life week, be the reason
someone gets a second chance at life.

763
00:46:30,165 --> 00:46:32,015
Register as an organ and tissue donor.

764
00:46:33,075 --> 00:46:34,095
Catherine: Yeah, that's great.

765
00:46:34,955 --> 00:46:35,755
Beautiful advice.

766
00:46:36,515 --> 00:46:37,795
Thank you so much, Sam.

767
00:46:38,705 --> 00:46:39,215
Thank you.

768
00:46:40,585 --> 00:46:44,025
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,

769
00:46:44,315 --> 00:46:45,905
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770
00:46:46,835 --> 00:46:51,225
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771
00:46:51,225 --> 00:46:53,055
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772
00:46:53,175 --> 00:46:56,775
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773
00:46:56,775 --> 00:46:58,545
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774
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775
00:47:02,855 --> 00:47:04,595
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776
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777
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778
00:47:07,385 --> 00:47:11,285
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