VAD: Choice, Compassion, and the End of Life
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About this episode
We all know death is coming for us, yet most of us avoid talking about it like it’s the plague. In this episode, I sit down with Baci Hillyer for an honest, heartfelt conversation about why facing our mortality head-on, including the controversial topic of assisted dying, can change the way we live.
Baci and I dive into the uncomfortable yet essential topic of death, why we fear it, why we avoid it, and what happens when we finally look it in the eye. We explore her personal journey of working in the end-of-life space, the emotional truths she’s uncovered, and the unexpected freedom that comes from preparing for something we can’t escape.
One of the big conversations we have is around Voluntary Assisted Dying, what it means, who it’s for, and why it sparks so much debate. Baci shares her perspective from both personal and professional angles, inviting listeners to think deeply about choice, autonomy, and compassion at the end of life.
This episode is about more than just dying, it’s about living well. We unpack the role that grief plays in shaping us, how our culture’s discomfort with death harms us, and practical steps you can take right now to prepare yourself and your loved ones for the inevitable. There’s laughter, raw honesty, and a shared belief that talking about death is one of the most life-affirming things you can do.
If you’ve ever found yourself dodging the “D word”, this conversation will inspire you to rethink what it means to live and die well.
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
End-of-life Doula, Advocate, and Storyteller
Baci Hillyer describes herself as a radical realist dedicated to educating and motivating end-of-life preparation in a death-phobic society. She believes how we meet death shapes how we truly live.
As an end-of-life doula, advocate, and storyteller, she works to socialise death by fostering open, compassionate dialogue that transforms apprehension into meaningful action. Her mission is to help others find greater peace, clarity, and purpose in both living and leaving well.
Her journey began not as a professional, but as a daughter, sister, and teenager cracked open by loss — walking with the wounds of death for over 37 years. That deeply personal experience led her to become a certified end-of-life doula and a committed volunteer in palliative care and with Dying with Dignity Victoria.
Through powerful talks, soul-grounded storytelling, and practical resources, she educates, advocates, and awakens action — encouraging individuals to prepare for the inevitable holistically, lovingly, and without delay.
Summary
We discussed:
- Why avoiding death talk robs us of deeper living
- How Baci found her calling in end-of-life work
- The surprising emotional freedom in facing mortality
- Voluntary Assisted Dying what it means and why it matters
- Practical steps for preparing for death
- How grief shapes our lives in ways we don’t expect
- Cultural shifts we need to make around dying
- Why preparing for death is one of the greatest gifts you can give your loved ones
Transcript
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The biggest difference with dying
with dignity is they're ready
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or they think they're ready.
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And it's quite interesting because
the statistics say that not everybody
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uses, you know, they'll get their
medicine, end of life medicine, the
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elixir, but a lot of them don't take it.
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00:00 ... Read More
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The biggest difference with dying
with dignity is they're ready
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or they think they're ready.
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00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:15,540
And it's quite interesting because
the statistics say that not everybody
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uses, you know, they'll get their
medicine, end of life medicine, the
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elixir, but a lot of them don't take it.
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So it's just the idea of the control
and the ability to do it if they need.
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So it's a beautiful moment where you're
meeting autonomy with love and loss.
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That choice, capacity, and control there.
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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a
podcast encouraging open conversations
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about dying and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to
life because while you may not be ready
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to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations
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and recognizes their connection
to land, sea, and community.
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We pay our respects to their elders
past, present, and emerging, and
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extend that respect to all Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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Today I'm speaking with Baci Hillyer
She describes herself as a radical
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realist dedicated to educating and
motivating end of life preparation
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in a death phobic society.
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She believes how we meet death shapes,
how we truly live as an end of life,
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doula, advocate, and storyteller.
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She works to socialize death by
fostering open, compassionate
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dialogue that transforms
apprehension into meaningful action.
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Her mission is to help others find
greater peace, clarity, and purpose
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in both living and leaving well.
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Her journey began not as a professional,
but as a daughter, sister, and teenager
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cracked open by loss, walking through
the wounds of death for over 37 years.
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That deeply personal experience led her to
become a certified end of life doula and
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a committed volunteer in palliative care.
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And with Dying with Dignity Victoria
through powerful talks, soul Grounded
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Storytelling and practical resources,
Baci educates advocates and awakens
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action, encouraging individuals to
prepare for the inevitable, holistically,
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lovingly, and without delay, I can't
thank you enough for me with us Baci.
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Wow, what an intro.
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Can you be my, uh, PR agent,
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please?
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No.
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I think your, um, your amazing
video, uh, is a beautiful
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introduction to your personal story.
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Uh, can you tell us a little
bit about how you got started?
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Well, yes.
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Well, we all have a story, don't we?
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Yeah.
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So mine, mine started
a long, long time ago.
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Uh, I was 15 and, uh, sadly, and
suddenly my father and my brother
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died within five months of each other.
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My father had a brain tumor,
and, uh, my brother died in a
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car crash five months later.
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So it was, look, I'm shortening it
because it's a really long story, but
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the reason is, is that it was just epic.
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It was, it was a, it
was a tsunami, I guess.
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It totally hit the family.
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It was, it was so unexpected.
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It was, it had a bit of, you know, with
the, with dad, with his brain tumor.
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It had the, you know, the privilege
of at least saying goodbye.
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Uh, it was a, it was short amount
of time, but we got to say goodbye.
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And with my brother, we didn't.
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Uh, so I sort of really got to
experience the hospital, the
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cancer, the chemo, palliative care.
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And then with my brother, it was
the sudden shock and the identifying
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that the body and the falling
apart of the family and the parent.
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And so it just, it, it
was a baptism of fire.
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And, and with that came survival,
bereavement, grief, trauma, uh, complex
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post-traumatic stress disorder, having to
heal, uh, so many, many decades of that.
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And finally popping out at the end and
realizing that with this experiential
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knowledge that I had something to
share and to offer in a place of.
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Of, of a healing place, not
from a traumatized place.
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You know, I think really I've landed
in the work that I do at the right
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time because I'm a lot older now.
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I'm 52, and I've traveled, I've
traveled a hard, long road and I've
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done a lot of work, and I feel that
I'm able to understand what's mine.
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I can meet people where they're at.
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I can understand energetically, uh,
the right boundaries, and I can really
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get in there and roll my sleeves up
and do, do some work and help people
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to, to respond and help them to do it
a lot better than we did it back then.
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And I'm pretty passionate about it
and I, I feel I'm pretty good at it.
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Yeah.
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Um, I love the fact that, uh, you
describe yourself as a radical realist
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and, and just, just on the point that.
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That you are a woman who just
publicly declared that she's 52.
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Oh, can I love it?
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Can I just say that,
that is so refreshing.
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Oh, I love my age.
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The, the older I get the better.
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I, I'm really looking forward to, and I
really mean this to becoming an elder.
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I'm feeling better in my skin than
I've ever felt, and I'm feeling
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more in my passion and my purpose
than I've ever felt before.
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So, oh, thank God I'm here.
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I'm owning it.
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Because I think with that age
comes a lot of wisdom and, um, or
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authority to speak from experience.
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And I feel really confident in that.
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And I think that's a great part
of, of working in end of life.
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You don't want some 25-year-old
rocking up at the end of life.
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You don't want a 30-year-old.
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You don't even want a 40-year-old
hit 50, hit 60, hit 70.
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You can be by my bedside.
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You know, because you've walked, you've
walked the yards, and I'm owning it.
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I love it.
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There is something to be said about the,
the stories that you accumulate over time.
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, and the impact that that has
and, and what you learn from them.
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Uh, I, I, I bumped into someone at
an old workplace last night and,
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and they said that, uh, they had
experienced someone close to them.
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Uh, die, uh, only recently.
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And, and that was in their, uh, late sort
of thirties and, and I thought, wow, okay.
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There is people that that don't have
that experience of, of a, a loved
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one dying until they're sort of in
their, their thirties and forties.
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Yeah.
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Um, certainly it wasn't your case
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or the death, the late death virgins.
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Yeah.
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They're the luckiest people.
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I love being around them because they
just don't have this, this, the damage.
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They don't have the trauma and
they may have lost a grandparent.
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I have, um, a really good friend.
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He's 50 and he's lost only a
grandparent, but he didn't know the
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grandparent, so he still hasn't lost.
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So he's like the, a oldest
living virgin death.
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Virgin, his, his wife lost a sister.
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He's lost people through.
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Other through friends and
family, but no one himself.
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And he's still the only one
I know that's like that.
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And he's seriously the best dancer,
the best, the happiest person.
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He's always the one making the cocktails.
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And I attribute it to that.
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I'm like, dude, you still
haven't started your grief walk.
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That's
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huge.
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But you thinks that, that, do you think
that, see, I would say that when you
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actually experience death, that's when
you actually probably live better.
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Look a
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hundred percent.
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So am I, you know what, what's better?
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We can't compare.
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It's just what has happened to him.
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Yeah.
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And he's been lucky enough, I guess,
to live in this bubble of bliss.
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Yeah.
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And we, we make that assumption.
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But I, I have to say, I don't think so.
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I think he's living a pretty good life.
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I, I, you, you would, you
would think that, I think.
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What you do is you go
deeper, you go really deep.
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You have to, you have to go there.
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You, once you're in, in grief
on your grief walk and death has
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happened to you, you have no choice.
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You're in, you're in the abuse of grief.
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You are there.
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We're all there.
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And it doesn't go away.
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The, if there's something that I have
learn on my 37 years of grief walking, and
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that's seven over 70% of my life is that
grief doesn't leave it, and it doesn't
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get lighter and it doesn't get easier.
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In fact, for me, it got a lot harder.
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The older I got, the more
I yearned for my dad.
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The, the older I got, the longer
it was that I hadn't seen him.
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So you just managing it and living, living
with it, and the age when I turned 45.
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And that was the age that he died.
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That was a whole nother layer
of grief and understanding.
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And then when I turned 46, all of
a sudden I'm older than my dad.
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Yeah.
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So you go through these from
a 15-year-old journey into 52.
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Boy, I have to tell you, I've, I've
got a really good understanding of
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the different stages and the ages
and moments of grief, and it hasn't,
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it's, it's, it changes all the time.
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These milestones or these
times where it hits you.
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When my children turn.
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The age that I was at 15 was the
first time that I actually thought
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about myself as a 15-year-old.
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I went shit.
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You were so young because my
15-year-old self had grown up and Right.
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I, I'm surviving, and I, I
hadn't even looked at her
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until I looked at my children.
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So you get hit.
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It's, it's a long road.
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It's a long and arduous road,
but it teaches you how to live.
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Yeah.
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Every death and grief teaches
you how to embrace life.
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There's no doubt about it.
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That's absolutely one thing.
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It, it's, it's with you all the time
and you're learning to live with it.
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But hey, we all are right.
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Everyone's on a grief walk.
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We're all in separate times.
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Except for my friend who hasn't
started his grief walk, but he's
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on a grief walk for his wife.
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He understands grief and lost animals.
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When you lose your animals,
that's grief walking.
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Yeah.
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It is human nature and humankind.
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I mean, our whole journey is,
it's pretty much suffering.
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It's whole lot of loss.
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We come in here making connections
and then we have to say goodbye
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to all of those connections.
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And of course, there's a loss of,
of yourself who you are as an, as.
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You grow older, you hit a, you hit 50.
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Grief is everywhere, isn't it,
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Catherine?
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It's just, it's a part of life.
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Oh, so many, so many elements.
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And, and tell me, with those, those
learnings that you've, you've, uh,
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experienced over time, how has that
shaped how you support other people when
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00:12:22,214 --> 00:12:24,375
they're facing a, a life limiting illness?
207
00:12:25,485 --> 00:12:32,444
Well, back to being a radical
realist, I'm, I'm real, I'm authentic.
208
00:12:33,105 --> 00:12:36,045
I think there's no euphemisms.
209
00:12:36,045 --> 00:12:39,015
There's no mollycoddling,
there's no cotton there.
210
00:12:39,015 --> 00:12:40,635
There's deep compassion.
211
00:12:41,235 --> 00:12:49,485
But how I meet people is a deep
understanding and also knowing
212
00:12:49,485 --> 00:12:50,985
that I don't know everything.
213
00:12:51,285 --> 00:12:52,935
I just, I'm showing up.
214
00:12:53,415 --> 00:12:56,145
I've lost a father, I've lost a
brother, but I haven't lost a mother.
215
00:12:56,985 --> 00:12:58,454
I haven't lost a child.
216
00:12:58,844 --> 00:13:06,974
So it's, it's about just being
real and honest and shutting up.
217
00:13:07,064 --> 00:13:12,165
Showing up and stepping up and listening.
218
00:13:12,765 --> 00:13:13,125
Yeah.
219
00:13:13,755 --> 00:13:19,935
And understanding that what
people really need is to be heard.
220
00:13:21,405 --> 00:13:22,035
And
221
00:13:24,314 --> 00:13:28,064
that's, that's really what my learnings.
222
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,880
Of what my experience has told me,
that over the years, all I really
223
00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:37,170
probably needed myself was to be
heard and to be given the time
224
00:13:37,175 --> 00:13:40,560
to, to talk about what happened.
225
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,080
And not many people do that very well.
226
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,260
I'm sad to say, yeah, active listening's
a skill and you need to learn it.
227
00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:52,920
And I don't think you really
get it until you've been there.
228
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,990
So yeah, I think, look, there's so
much, I mean, I could talk about
229
00:13:57,990 --> 00:14:04,020
it forever, but I think that's
the, the fundamental, the, the, the
230
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:08,520
deepest layer of what I, what I give.
231
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:19,890
And how would you suggest when family
there is a diagnosis and, and people
232
00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:23,460
sometimes wanna say something they're
not quite sure what they should say.
233
00:14:24,375 --> 00:14:29,655
Given the experience that you have working
in that space, what have you found to be
234
00:14:29,655 --> 00:14:34,635
the things that either someone has said
to you that has been comforting or advice
235
00:14:34,635 --> 00:14:36,314
that you provide to those loved ones?
236
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,120
Hmm,
237
00:14:39,765 --> 00:14:40,005
that's
238
00:14:40,005 --> 00:14:40,785
a good question.
239
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,555
I guess you are talking about
when they've received the
240
00:14:45,555 --> 00:14:47,475
diagnosis or just at any stage?
241
00:14:47,925 --> 00:14:51,705
I think at any stage, look, you can, you
can look at each different stage because
242
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:53,145
they're, they're all quite different.
243
00:14:53,145 --> 00:14:57,585
But I think that they're, I think at
any point there's, it's difficult having
244
00:14:57,585 --> 00:15:03,585
conversations with perhaps someone
who, uh, you know, uh, has a, a life
245
00:15:03,585 --> 00:15:05,505
limiting illness and a diagnosis.
246
00:15:06,105 --> 00:15:07,035
The best thing
247
00:15:07,035 --> 00:15:11,564
to do really is to, to meet
someone where they're at.
248
00:15:11,954 --> 00:15:18,285
So I think the first thing that IWI would
say is you need to be led by the person,
249
00:15:18,915 --> 00:15:22,964
uh, depending on your relationship with
them and how, how well you know them.
250
00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:31,035
Uh, the twofold approach is one
from your side, are you, who
251
00:15:31,035 --> 00:15:32,564
are you and what can you offer?
252
00:15:32,834 --> 00:15:37,214
So I always look at the these four H
words and they're really easy to remember.
253
00:15:37,214 --> 00:15:38,745
So it's a human approach.
254
00:15:39,165 --> 00:15:41,025
One, are you a person?
255
00:15:41,025 --> 00:15:42,225
Who's of the heart?
256
00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:45,824
Are you, have you always been really in
your heart, you really compassionate?
257
00:15:46,214 --> 00:15:47,595
Is that your approach with people?
258
00:15:47,595 --> 00:15:50,385
You, that's nurturing, heartfelt person?
259
00:15:50,985 --> 00:15:53,145
Are you a person that likes to help?
260
00:15:54,285 --> 00:15:55,095
How do you help?
261
00:15:55,095 --> 00:15:56,204
Are you really practical?
262
00:15:56,745 --> 00:15:58,155
Are you, do you help emotionally?
263
00:15:58,155 --> 00:15:59,265
Do you help physically?
264
00:16:00,285 --> 00:16:02,625
Are you a person that is one of hope?
265
00:16:03,675 --> 00:16:04,995
Are you really spiritual?
266
00:16:04,995 --> 00:16:05,475
Do you.
267
00:16:06,675 --> 00:16:10,635
Look, hope is is essential,
but it's not a strategy.
268
00:16:10,635 --> 00:16:12,195
But it's definitely essential.
269
00:16:12,195 --> 00:16:17,025
Are you one of those hopeful people or
are you a person that's really funny?
270
00:16:17,655 --> 00:16:18,495
Are you humorous?
271
00:16:18,885 --> 00:16:23,205
So then you've gotta work out
where am I going to help the most?
272
00:16:23,265 --> 00:16:24,885
Or what am I gonna be the most effective?
273
00:16:24,885 --> 00:16:27,855
Because if I'm gonna come in and try
to be funny, but I'm not really that
274
00:16:27,855 --> 00:16:30,165
funny, it's nothing's gonna be authentic.
275
00:16:30,165 --> 00:16:30,225
Yeah.
276
00:16:30,435 --> 00:16:33,375
So you need to sort of ask
yourself, Hey, who am I?
277
00:16:33,375 --> 00:16:34,575
What, what can I provide?
278
00:16:34,935 --> 00:16:37,005
And then the final one is be honest.
279
00:16:37,605 --> 00:16:44,325
So you come in, you say, Hey,
honestly I am so out of my
280
00:16:44,325 --> 00:16:46,305
depth and I'm so uncomfortable.
281
00:16:47,235 --> 00:16:51,705
But if you need anything to
do with the heart, I'm here.
282
00:16:52,245 --> 00:16:54,255
I I'll, I'll talk anything heart.
283
00:16:54,735 --> 00:16:56,295
I've got all the compassion in the world.
284
00:16:56,295 --> 00:16:57,345
I wanna hear you.
285
00:16:57,345 --> 00:16:58,255
I wanna listen to you.
286
00:16:58,995 --> 00:17:01,335
You can come in and say, Hey, I don't
know, but I tell you what, if you
287
00:17:01,335 --> 00:17:02,805
need me to send you a funny meme.
288
00:17:03,525 --> 00:17:04,690
Every day, day.
289
00:17:04,694 --> 00:17:05,835
I'll send you a funny meme.
290
00:17:06,165 --> 00:17:09,375
If you need me to make you
laugh, I will make you laugh.
291
00:17:09,885 --> 00:17:15,405
Um, do you know what I'm, I don't know
what the hell to do, but if I can pick
292
00:17:15,405 --> 00:17:19,694
up your kids, if I can do something
in your garden, if I can, you know,
293
00:17:19,845 --> 00:17:22,155
offer help practically, professionally,
294
00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:26,294
anything, Hey, I'll get this done for you.
295
00:17:26,774 --> 00:17:28,635
I'll pick up the, the mail.
296
00:17:28,635 --> 00:17:31,274
I will, you know, anything.
297
00:17:31,875 --> 00:17:33,135
I'll get your taxes done.
298
00:17:34,125 --> 00:17:35,294
Whatever it is.
299
00:17:35,745 --> 00:17:42,735
I think that's always the best approach
when someone is, is in that space.
300
00:17:43,155 --> 00:17:47,264
You are honest and then you
offer something that you
301
00:17:47,264 --> 00:17:49,695
know you can actually do.
302
00:17:50,325 --> 00:17:54,044
Don't offer them anything you that's
out of your depth or don't, don't.
303
00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:55,770
Say platitudes.
304
00:17:55,770 --> 00:17:56,820
Don't give them shit.
305
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,580
Just work out from you.
306
00:17:59,879 --> 00:18:01,710
And then meet them when
they're at where they're at.
307
00:18:02,159 --> 00:18:05,610
And if you feel that they don't
wanna talk about anything, you
308
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:06,930
need to tune into that as well.
309
00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:09,270
And ask permission.
310
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:10,680
Ask permission.
311
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,159
Hey, do you mind if we
talk about this now?
312
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:14,580
No.
313
00:18:14,909 --> 00:18:15,240
Okay.
314
00:18:15,419 --> 00:18:16,290
No problem.
315
00:18:16,919 --> 00:18:18,810
When you are ready,
you know that I'm here.
316
00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:20,550
And then just keep showing up.
317
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:21,840
Keep showing up.
318
00:18:22,379 --> 00:18:27,030
Don't be shy, because things
are changing all the time and
319
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:29,879
people really appreciate honesty.
320
00:18:31,230 --> 00:18:35,370
I think at the end of the life,
you need to be having the most
321
00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:40,590
authentic conversations, or you
have the opportunity to enter in
322
00:18:40,590 --> 00:18:43,440
the most authentic conversations.
323
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:48,990
And if the person wants to be in
complete denial and doesn't want
324
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:52,530
anything to do with it, doesn't
wanna talk about it, just wants to.
325
00:18:53,955 --> 00:18:55,035
Putting it all on you.
326
00:18:55,035 --> 00:18:56,325
Oh, how's your family?
327
00:18:56,325 --> 00:18:57,405
And they don't wanna discuss anything.
328
00:18:57,405 --> 00:18:57,795
Great.
329
00:18:57,885 --> 00:19:00,645
Meet them there without any judgment.
330
00:19:01,785 --> 00:19:04,185
That's, I think that's
331
00:19:04,995 --> 00:19:05,595
my answer.
332
00:19:07,245 --> 00:19:09,165
Well, I think that's an
exceptionally good answer.
333
00:19:10,125 --> 00:19:10,275
Oh, good.
334
00:19:11,655 --> 00:19:16,065
Now tell me, how did you get involved
with Dying with Dignity Victoria?
335
00:19:17,145 --> 00:19:19,635
Oh, well, look, I'm so passionate.
336
00:19:19,635 --> 00:19:26,865
So my, my little friend Zika, I say little
friend, my little banana in pajamas.
337
00:19:26,865 --> 00:19:29,655
We, we worked in palliative care together.
338
00:19:29,655 --> 00:19:31,335
We volunteered and we always got caught.
339
00:19:31,335 --> 00:19:32,325
B one and B two.
340
00:19:32,325 --> 00:19:34,605
We were like a little
bit silly on the ward.
341
00:19:35,145 --> 00:19:41,805
We, she, her and I are just passionate
about dying with dignity, full stop.
342
00:19:42,075 --> 00:19:45,525
Whether that's in palliative
care, whether that's in life and.
343
00:19:46,155 --> 00:19:49,395
She was volunteering at, you
know, for voluntary sister die.
344
00:19:49,395 --> 00:19:51,735
And I said, Hey, you
better sign up here too.
345
00:19:52,275 --> 00:19:53,205
I said, okay, no problem.
346
00:19:53,205 --> 00:19:54,195
Of course.
347
00:19:54,765 --> 00:19:59,895
And we both, you know, we're just
very passionate about end of life
348
00:20:00,015 --> 00:20:02,085
and honoring and dignified death.
349
00:20:02,655 --> 00:20:09,555
And since volunteering there, I've just
had the most incredible experiences.
350
00:20:09,795 --> 00:20:14,805
And it's quite different because you
are dealing with people who have made
351
00:20:14,865 --> 00:20:21,165
the courageous choice to end their life
or end their suffering or end their
352
00:20:21,165 --> 00:20:24,075
life before unnecessary suffering.
353
00:20:24,525 --> 00:20:28,155
And it's legal, you know, that's massive.
354
00:20:28,815 --> 00:20:30,045
It's, it's incredible.
355
00:20:30,045 --> 00:20:35,505
Now that it's so legal and above board,
I think society still have a long way
356
00:20:35,505 --> 00:20:37,875
of catching up in terms of perception.
357
00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:43,290
But you, you, you code to these
houses and you witness, and then
358
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:44,520
you end up talking to people.
359
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,940
And of course you're talking to
them, but they're so resolved.
360
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:52,830
And that's quite different because
you're, you're coming from a place
361
00:20:52,830 --> 00:20:56,820
saying palliative, where there's a lot
of people that aren't resolved, they're
362
00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:03,180
not ready, or they're trying to extend
or hang on to life and that's okay.
363
00:21:03,180 --> 00:21:08,370
Where whatever it's, uh, but the
biggest difference with dying with
364
00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:10,890
dignity is they're, they're ready.
365
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,260
They, they, or they think they're ready.
366
00:21:13,950 --> 00:21:19,620
And it's quite interesting because
the, the statistics say that
367
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:24,390
not everybody uses, you know,
they'll get their medic medicine.
368
00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:30,180
Of life medicine, the elixir,
but a lot of them don't take it.
369
00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:36,480
So it's just the idea of the control
and the ability to do it if they need.
370
00:21:36,570 --> 00:21:41,820
So it's, it's a beautiful moment
where you're meeting autonomy
371
00:21:41,970 --> 00:21:46,260
with love and loss, that choice,
capacity and control there.
372
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:53,550
And some families are really supportive
and ready and guiding that and others
373
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,260
it's not, not always like that.
374
00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:57,930
So it's an interesting space.
375
00:21:57,930 --> 00:22:04,740
But yeah, I got there through my friend
Ika and uh, her and I are now starting.
376
00:22:05,835 --> 00:22:12,645
This long journey and path and passion
is to to to start the first voluntary
377
00:22:12,735 --> 00:22:15,375
sister dying hospice in Victoria.
378
00:22:15,495 --> 00:22:21,885
So it's a big undertaking, but we've
got a crew of wonderful women and, and,
379
00:22:21,885 --> 00:22:26,835
uh, yeah, we're, we're, it's a big labor
of love, but we're, we're starting that
380
00:22:26,835 --> 00:22:28,965
now as a result of, of our work there.
381
00:22:28,965 --> 00:22:33,405
We've seen a big need and
it's, it's the way forward.
382
00:22:33,705 --> 00:22:34,035
Yeah.
383
00:22:35,325 --> 00:22:35,985
It's exciting.
384
00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:39,929
It's exciting and I, I'd
love to know more about it.
385
00:22:39,929 --> 00:22:42,389
Like what, what does that involve?
386
00:22:42,389 --> 00:22:48,120
When you, you have this idea, you know,
what are the, what is the, the framework
387
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:51,030
set forward for you about developing that?
388
00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:52,199
How do you go about it?
389
00:22:52,199 --> 00:22:53,040
How do you fund it?
390
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:53,939
How do you build it?
391
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,120
Like tell me, talk me through the process.
392
00:22:57,149 --> 00:22:57,990
Well, I tell you
393
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:58,620
what, that's.
394
00:22:58,865 --> 00:23:00,665
That's the big, that's the big issue.
395
00:23:00,665 --> 00:23:01,355
It's huge.
396
00:23:01,445 --> 00:23:04,294
It's a big undertaking and
yeah, it evolves a lot.
397
00:23:04,595 --> 00:23:08,405
So we've, we're at the moment we're,
it's about discussions really.
398
00:23:08,764 --> 00:23:09,965
It's talking to a lot of people.
399
00:23:09,965 --> 00:23:14,284
It's getting information with government
funding who's gonna be able to help us.
400
00:23:14,284 --> 00:23:19,745
We've got architects on board and we
are meeting with hospices online who are
401
00:23:19,745 --> 00:23:23,735
already doing this, and we are looking
at the structure of how their set up is.
402
00:23:24,365 --> 00:23:27,665
And we're talking to business people.
403
00:23:28,085 --> 00:23:30,215
Uh, we we're looking at how to fund it.
404
00:23:30,274 --> 00:23:32,165
We've got the accountant,
we've got the lawyers.
405
00:23:32,165 --> 00:23:34,054
Look, it's, it's, it's everything.
406
00:23:34,595 --> 00:23:36,365
You know, it's legal, it's it's ethical.
407
00:23:36,365 --> 00:23:41,284
It's the emotional, it's, it's
how does the hospice look?
408
00:23:41,405 --> 00:23:42,965
Who do we need to be looking after?
409
00:23:42,965 --> 00:23:46,595
It's not just the person who's
dying, it's the families, it's
410
00:23:46,595 --> 00:23:49,385
bereavement after it's location.
411
00:23:49,745 --> 00:23:51,514
It's, it's everything.
412
00:23:51,514 --> 00:23:57,815
So it's a big team effort and it's a
lot, but what we're finding is that.
413
00:23:58,145 --> 00:24:00,095
So many people are willing to help.
414
00:24:00,575 --> 00:24:07,715
So many people are offering assistance and
we, we don't have this experience at all.
415
00:24:07,715 --> 00:24:08,825
We've just got the passion.
416
00:24:09,425 --> 00:24:13,865
And what's happening is we're really
bringing together a whole lot of people
417
00:24:13,895 --> 00:24:19,820
with the same passion and they are
coming together and we're, we're, we're
418
00:24:19,825 --> 00:24:24,665
just going through it blindly, I guess,
but we're getting informed and putting
419
00:24:24,665 --> 00:24:27,635
together a pretty amazing prospectus.
420
00:24:27,725 --> 00:24:29,735
And, uh, we're getting
some great feedback.
421
00:24:30,245 --> 00:24:36,665
And then the next step will be funding
and convincing the government to back
422
00:24:36,665 --> 00:24:39,215
us and hope, hopefully Victor the way.
423
00:24:39,215 --> 00:24:41,405
But if not, we'll go to other states.
424
00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:44,580
Yeah, we'll just keep pushing
and pushing and pushing.
425
00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:48,720
And so what sort of support are you after?
426
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:54,540
Uh, what, obviously you have a lot
of people who are keen to see it
427
00:24:54,540 --> 00:24:59,070
happen, but from a practicality, se,
you know, sense like it is funding
428
00:24:59,070 --> 00:25:00,450
that you need money, isn't it?
429
00:25:00,450 --> 00:25:01,050
They need money.
430
00:25:01,230 --> 00:25:01,590
Absolutely.
431
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:01,920
Yeah.
432
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,045
We need money.
433
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:03,240
We
434
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:08,280
need a property and we need money
to set up, to set up this hospice.
435
00:25:08,790 --> 00:25:09,870
And that's really what it is.
436
00:25:09,870 --> 00:25:12,930
So whether, whether that comes from
government or whether we get it privately
437
00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:16,200
funded, there are ways, there are ways.
438
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,820
So we need to put a really compelling.
439
00:25:21,975 --> 00:25:24,705
Marketing campaign
together to get this done.
440
00:25:24,705 --> 00:25:26,745
And I think we've got that.
441
00:25:27,435 --> 00:25:32,085
There's a lot to be said and there's a lot
of people, and I think the more publicity
442
00:25:32,294 --> 00:25:37,605
voluntary sister dying gets, I mean, you
know, the more people who are doing it.
443
00:25:37,905 --> 00:25:42,439
And also like with, recently with
Robert Walls who, who passed away
444
00:25:42,735 --> 00:25:44,534
the footballer, that was really huge.
445
00:25:44,925 --> 00:25:50,205
And the more people that that do it
and, and experience it themselves and
446
00:25:50,205 --> 00:25:55,095
understand that, that ability to have
that choice now that it's made legal,
447
00:25:55,695 --> 00:25:58,814
that once someone's made the choice,
they really need somewhere to go.
448
00:25:58,814 --> 00:26:02,745
And hospitals aren't set up
for, for VAD and a lot of
449
00:26:02,745 --> 00:26:03,945
people don't wanna die at home.
450
00:26:03,945 --> 00:26:08,925
Understandably so, because it's the
family home and they need to, they need
451
00:26:08,925 --> 00:26:14,445
a place where they can go and it seems
so quiet and underhanded and they're
452
00:26:14,445 --> 00:26:16,784
getting Airbnbs or going to hotels.
453
00:26:16,784 --> 00:26:17,564
I mean, it's just.
454
00:26:18,165 --> 00:26:19,575
It's, it's sad.
455
00:26:19,875 --> 00:26:21,735
It doesn't, it shouldn't end like that.
456
00:26:22,215 --> 00:26:27,165
There's talk about a caravan, you
know, that goes around and to people
457
00:26:27,165 --> 00:26:29,925
that it's, it needs to be dignified.
458
00:26:30,285 --> 00:26:33,585
You know, when you make that choice,
they need to be able to go somewhere
459
00:26:33,885 --> 00:26:36,435
where they're held and the last moments.
460
00:26:37,004 --> 00:26:41,805
And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's
gotta be about the person, not the policy.
461
00:26:41,805 --> 00:26:46,635
You know, it's, it's, it has
to be, uh, holistic care right
462
00:26:46,635 --> 00:26:47,925
from the start to the finish.
463
00:26:48,165 --> 00:26:51,855
And at the moment, the finish is
not, it's not being catered to.
464
00:26:52,305 --> 00:26:54,375
So, yeah, what do we need?
465
00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:55,155
We need funding.
466
00:26:55,514 --> 00:26:55,905
Yeah.
467
00:26:56,175 --> 00:27:01,575
So it's going to take a while, but,
and when you do it right and when
468
00:27:01,575 --> 00:27:04,815
you have the best intentions, I
think the right people come out.
469
00:27:04,845 --> 00:27:06,975
They'll come out and they'll help.
470
00:27:07,665 --> 00:27:12,975
And it's also something that
I feel is, it's inevitable.
471
00:27:14,145 --> 00:27:17,205
It's some hospices are going to be.
472
00:27:17,790 --> 00:27:23,310
Extremely important with our aging
population, and we need to come
473
00:27:23,310 --> 00:27:25,830
up with some pretty savvy answers.
474
00:27:25,889 --> 00:27:26,970
Pretty, pretty soon.
475
00:27:27,420 --> 00:27:34,379
So even a, a model of having homes that
are empty and having people allowed
476
00:27:34,379 --> 00:27:40,410
to go in there and, and, and die in
a beautiful space, uh, you know, as
477
00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:44,970
blueprints on how this looks, it,
this all needs to start happening now.
478
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:45,899
Yeah.
479
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:48,480
Above, above board and openly.
480
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:49,230
Yeah.
481
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:53,520
It's happening, but it needs to
be championed and held in, in
482
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,040
know, and revered in reverence.
483
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:56,340
Yeah.
484
00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:57,840
Not underhanded.
485
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,160
Not oh, quietly.
486
00:27:59,730 --> 00:28:02,370
You know, this person's gonna
get this place and die there.
487
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:05,100
There's nothing, nothing
should be secret about it.
488
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:05,850
Yeah.
489
00:28:07,155 --> 00:28:14,085
And because people who decide to go
down the palliative, uh, process, and
490
00:28:14,324 --> 00:28:18,945
maybe you can talk about the palliative
process, um, as compared to a voluntary
491
00:28:18,945 --> 00:28:23,625
assisted dying process and what perhaps
those, those needs are, how they
492
00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:28,965
differ between like a, a palliative
care facility, which we already have.
493
00:28:29,024 --> 00:28:33,975
And then what's more unique about what
the needs are around the family of someone
494
00:28:33,975 --> 00:28:36,225
who's got chosen voluntary assisted dying.
495
00:28:36,645 --> 00:28:37,845
Mm, yeah.
496
00:28:37,845 --> 00:28:38,774
Really good question.
497
00:28:39,105 --> 00:28:41,985
Palliative and, and voluntary at the end.
498
00:28:42,375 --> 00:28:44,655
Uh, uh, that's the same result.
499
00:28:44,955 --> 00:28:49,845
Uh, the, the other thing is I guess
with palliative it, it doesn't.
500
00:28:50,670 --> 00:28:53,130
It neither extends or shortens life.
501
00:28:53,220 --> 00:28:57,840
It's really meeting someone
holistically with a team of
502
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,760
interdisciplinary, you know, teams
of doctors and, um, allied health
503
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,250
and social workers, pastoral carers.
504
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,830
It's a, it's a holistic approach
to ensure that the person with
505
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:14,430
the life limit in illness is
living their best possible life.
506
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:17,880
They're living with a, with
a disease, not dying from it.
507
00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:21,120
And it's, it's a beautiful
way to explain it.
508
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:27,390
Palliative is also not always necessarily
the end, and that's a big myth.
509
00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:31,230
And I want to say that there are
people in palliative care for 10 years.
510
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:36,540
You know, it could be 10 days,
10 months, 10 years, 10 hours.
511
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:38,790
You know, it's, it's a big range.
512
00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:46,230
Uh, the minute someone is, both of them,
uh, you have to have a life limiting
513
00:29:46,290 --> 00:29:49,500
terminal illness to be able to access.
514
00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:52,215
Palliative or voluntary sister died.
515
00:29:52,575 --> 00:29:56,055
The rules around voluntary
sister dying are a lot stricter.
516
00:29:56,865 --> 00:30:03,225
Uh, hopefully the laws are going
to to change, uh, around that.
517
00:30:03,255 --> 00:30:08,745
It's fantastic that it's happened, but
they need to, to, they need to be changed,
518
00:30:08,745 --> 00:30:11,205
to be more flexible and to be more kind.
519
00:30:11,205 --> 00:30:17,625
It's very difficult for the person,
person who's got the terminal illness,
520
00:30:17,625 --> 00:30:20,985
who wants voluntary sister die and
could be in palliative care as well.
521
00:30:21,465 --> 00:30:22,515
They're also there.
522
00:30:23,025 --> 00:30:28,395
They just, by the time that
they choose to die, it might
523
00:30:28,395 --> 00:30:29,805
just be a little bit too late.
524
00:30:30,285 --> 00:30:35,025
You know, it takes the paperwork, you
know, that, that they have to go through.
525
00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:39,465
It's a, it's a lot of bureaucratic
process given six months and there's
526
00:30:39,465 --> 00:30:46,155
a lot of arming and I think, I
think with palliative it's a.
527
00:30:46,814 --> 00:30:49,844
You end up dying in
hospital or you can go home.
528
00:30:50,534 --> 00:30:53,294
Uh, once people get there,
they tend to stay there.
529
00:30:54,044 --> 00:30:59,145
Uh, rarely people go home unless they've
really, really, really wanna get home
530
00:30:59,145 --> 00:31:02,054
and it's okay for them to be at home.
531
00:31:02,475 --> 00:31:06,885
In other words, it's manageable because
it's decision is really around the family.
532
00:31:06,885 --> 00:31:11,415
In both situations, it should
be about the person dying, but
533
00:31:12,104 --> 00:31:13,425
you know what they really want.
534
00:31:13,455 --> 00:31:19,784
But a lot of the times, if a, if a person,
for instance, is, has shit coming out of
535
00:31:19,784 --> 00:31:21,915
every orifice, they're not gonna go home.
536
00:31:21,915 --> 00:31:24,824
It's more traumatic for the people
at home when that's happening.
537
00:31:25,185 --> 00:31:25,395
Yeah.
538
00:31:25,395 --> 00:31:27,885
So of course they need to be
staying somewhere where that's.
539
00:31:29,445 --> 00:31:33,960
Taken care in, in the best possible
way with the best possible staff.
540
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,890
So incidences like that, you know,
you, you have to have a plan.
541
00:31:37,890 --> 00:31:39,450
Your plan will go out the door.
542
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:44,910
When, when things are that go
really horribly wrong, obviously
543
00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:47,730
in the great scenario, someone
can go, okay, I'm leaving now
544
00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:48,810
and I'm gonna go and die at home.
545
00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:51,030
And I've seen that happen,
and that's, that's beautiful.
546
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:57,510
Uh, so they're waiting for end of life
to happen as it happens naturally.
547
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:02,340
Someone with voluntary sister dying
saying, I don't want to go through that
548
00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:08,040
palliative process where it's, it's slowly
shutting down and there's a lot of pain
549
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,430
and there's a lot of drugs, and my family
have to come in and see me like that.
550
00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:13,020
I'm going to avoid that.
551
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,670
I know where it's going.
552
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,650
I have a, a brain tumor and I
know that I need to do that now.
553
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:23,250
Uh, that is a huge decision.
554
00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:30,300
It's a courageous and brave decision,
and I feel that with those people
555
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,640
because they're so sure of it and they
know exactly why they're doing it.
556
00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:42,060
The family might not be happy about
it, but they respect it deeply.
557
00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:43,170
Yeah.
558
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,630
There seems to be more of a,
a resolve when you are dealing
559
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:50,280
with voluntary assisted dying.
560
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,200
There's more peace, there's more
acceptance, and even if there's one or
561
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,010
two in the family that aren't, the rest
of the family are carrying them because
562
00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:08,070
they know that this is the absolute
desire and need and of the, of the di
563
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:09,990
of the traveler of the person dying.
564
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:11,700
That's, that's their request.
565
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,760
That's what they want and it's about them.
566
00:33:15,825 --> 00:33:20,505
So there's a certainty, a definite, right?
567
00:33:20,595 --> 00:33:24,795
Whereas in palliative, it's,
it's all still quite unknown.
568
00:33:25,005 --> 00:33:25,995
Is it three weeks?
569
00:33:25,995 --> 00:33:27,525
Is it, is it three months?
570
00:33:27,525 --> 00:33:28,365
Is it three weeks?
571
00:33:28,365 --> 00:33:29,355
Is it three days?
572
00:33:29,385 --> 00:33:30,375
Is it three hours?
573
00:33:31,095 --> 00:33:34,185
Mm. With voluntary
sister dying, it's okay.
574
00:33:34,185 --> 00:33:35,025
Here's the process.
575
00:33:35,025 --> 00:33:39,495
Here are the, the doctors are
signing off and here's the
576
00:33:39,495 --> 00:33:42,645
medicine, here's the procedure.
577
00:33:42,645 --> 00:33:43,275
Off you go.
578
00:33:44,415 --> 00:33:45,345
And then it's up to them.
579
00:33:45,945 --> 00:33:50,835
And tell me, how is it to support
family through that process?
580
00:33:51,285 --> 00:33:54,740
Are you there or does it depend
on who you're engaged by?
581
00:33:55,365 --> 00:33:58,665
Are you engaged by the
person who's the traveler?
582
00:33:59,175 --> 00:34:02,865
Or are you there engaged by
the family of that traveler?
583
00:34:03,525 --> 00:34:09,014
Well, I've been a bit of a cheat
lately because when I volunteer, it's.
584
00:34:09,435 --> 00:34:10,725
Held by everyone else.
585
00:34:11,205 --> 00:34:12,944
So that's a lot better
for my mental health.
586
00:34:13,245 --> 00:34:20,145
As an end of life doula, I stopped doing
private work because my kids were still
587
00:34:20,145 --> 00:34:26,054
at school, and it's really difficult to
take on that work when you have a family.
588
00:34:26,654 --> 00:34:34,364
So since my daughter finished her year
12 last year, I, I can start to do
589
00:34:34,484 --> 00:34:41,054
individual end of life doula work again,
but I probably won't because I feel
590
00:34:41,054 --> 00:34:46,754
after my time on the ward in palliative,
even though I was a volunteer there,
591
00:34:46,754 --> 00:34:49,935
I was still doering because at the end
of the day, we're all doulas, right?
592
00:34:50,264 --> 00:34:55,125
All of us are end of life
carers, and each one of us has to
593
00:34:55,694 --> 00:35:02,174
statistically look after the end of
life of at least three loved ones.
594
00:35:03,029 --> 00:35:05,160
So we're all gonna be
doing the work that I do.
595
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,569
There's nothing really special
about me other than I'm trained
596
00:35:10,169 --> 00:35:13,470
and I have more experience and I'm
probably more death comfortable.
597
00:35:13,859 --> 00:35:16,230
But each person is going
to have to do what I do.
598
00:35:16,799 --> 00:35:24,600
So my passion and my mission is to
try to help everybody to do that to.
599
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,089
So really I wanna do myself out of a job.
600
00:35:29,759 --> 00:35:35,250
So vol. So when you are engaged,
so as an end of life doula, whoever
601
00:35:35,250 --> 00:35:37,560
engages you, that's who your client is.
602
00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:43,830
So you will advocate and find resources,
and find information for, and work for
603
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:49,200
in a non-medical role for that person
who's engaged you as a volunteer.
604
00:35:50,399 --> 00:35:51,060
Luckily.
605
00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:57,060
My boundaries are everybody else, the,
the team in palliative care are all there.
606
00:35:57,420 --> 00:35:58,320
So it's fabulous.
607
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:04,200
So I'm just showing up, sitting, talking
to knowing, knowing my boundaries.
608
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,600
But probably we would joke a bit with the
volunteer hub that I probably crossed a
609
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:15,750
lot of boundaries, but comfortably so,
and legally and ethically, beautifully.
610
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:17,730
So that's the skill.
611
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:19,050
It's discernment.
612
00:36:19,230 --> 00:36:23,910
And I would end up sitting, you know,
it's not like I would go on the ward
613
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:25,950
and have to go into every bed that day.
614
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:30,780
I would float in, find where I was
supposed to be, and even if I spent
615
00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:35,130
two hours with one person, the beauty
and the ability to be able to do that.
616
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,850
'cause not being a nurse, not being
someone who's coming to prod them.
617
00:36:39,180 --> 00:36:43,260
Not someone who's coming to assess
them, but someone to come and meet them.
618
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:48,270
What, where they need, where they're
at, and the ability to leave knowing
619
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:49,710
that they were still cared for.
620
00:36:50,445 --> 00:36:53,595
Was was just really, really helpful.
621
00:36:54,105 --> 00:36:58,575
It's helpful to me as a person because I
care so much and I can take on so much.
622
00:36:59,085 --> 00:37:04,995
So yeah, I, I got to see a lot as
a volunteer in palliative care.
623
00:37:05,085 --> 00:37:06,045
I get to see a lot.
624
00:37:07,365 --> 00:37:10,095
And tell me what is it Baci
that people wanna talk about?
625
00:37:10,755 --> 00:37:13,425
Is there trends that you've noticed or No,
626
00:37:14,235 --> 00:37:15,135
no trends.
627
00:37:15,675 --> 00:37:22,155
The only thing at the end of the day
that I feel is I have had the most
628
00:37:22,155 --> 00:37:26,415
authentic conversations that I've ever
had in my life with people who are dying.
629
00:37:26,775 --> 00:37:28,035
That's, that's the trend.
630
00:37:28,635 --> 00:37:34,005
It's, it's real, but how,
how, that is, how that looks.
631
00:37:34,275 --> 00:37:36,225
Depends on each individual's character.
632
00:37:36,585 --> 00:37:38,115
It's as real as it gets for them.
633
00:37:38,805 --> 00:37:40,935
So it's amazing.
634
00:37:40,935 --> 00:37:43,305
It's really what they wanna talk about.
635
00:37:43,305 --> 00:37:47,805
Sometimes it's super emotional,
sometimes it's just so funny.
636
00:37:48,435 --> 00:37:53,535
And some people, look, I've, I've been
in a room where the guy in there is
637
00:37:53,595 --> 00:37:57,735
brought in his whole supercomputer
and he's playing with his grandkids.
638
00:37:58,154 --> 00:37:58,694
Um.
639
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:00,100
What are those games?
640
00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:03,130
Um, those that, anyway,
what are they called?
641
00:38:03,515 --> 00:38:04,405
Xbox, Nintendo.
642
00:38:04,405 --> 00:38:04,415
Xbox.
643
00:38:04,925 --> 00:38:05,485
Nintendo.
644
00:38:05,620 --> 00:38:07,420
Nintendo to PlayStation.
645
00:38:08,290 --> 00:38:11,560
He got his PlayStation in there and
he's playing with his grandkids.
646
00:38:11,830 --> 00:38:15,550
And then next minute there's
a, an Amazon delivery into
647
00:38:15,550 --> 00:38:17,770
his room and, and it's coming.
648
00:38:17,770 --> 00:38:19,060
I've gone, what are these?
649
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,400
And he goes, oh, they're
my, they're my undies.
650
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,590
They're my piss undies and my
shitty undies from America because.
651
00:38:27,165 --> 00:38:28,785
In Australia, they don't have my sight.
652
00:38:28,785 --> 00:38:32,115
So I've got three xl and
he said, my goodness.
653
00:38:32,115 --> 00:38:32,295
Yeah.
654
00:38:32,475 --> 00:38:36,285
So I put these pants on and they're all
stretch and we've opened them up and, you
655
00:38:36,285 --> 00:38:38,625
know, it's just, it's hilarious, you know?
656
00:38:39,015 --> 00:38:43,995
So I've gone into some people's
wards and they're just, oh my God.
657
00:38:43,995 --> 00:38:48,345
It's, it's, it's terrible because
the palliative ward that I work
658
00:38:48,345 --> 00:38:49,815
on is a neurological disorder.
659
00:38:49,815 --> 00:38:53,865
So you've got MND, you've got
Parkinson's disease, you've got
660
00:38:53,895 --> 00:38:58,845
Huntington's disease, you've got brain
tumor, and it's all, it's heroine.
661
00:38:59,235 --> 00:38:59,745
Heroine.
662
00:39:00,315 --> 00:39:02,865
Um, you've got people on the way
down, you've got people who've
663
00:39:02,865 --> 00:39:05,835
just had their diagnosis and
you've got people on the way out.
664
00:39:05,835 --> 00:39:08,115
So it's a mishmash.
665
00:39:08,355 --> 00:39:10,424
And then you've got cancer patients.
666
00:39:10,424 --> 00:39:13,725
So it's, no one's the same.
667
00:39:13,904 --> 00:39:15,015
Nothing's the same.
668
00:39:15,435 --> 00:39:19,935
Uh, each person's completely unique
and individual, and everyone's
669
00:39:19,935 --> 00:39:21,615
families are all different as well.
670
00:39:21,825 --> 00:39:24,075
And you've got a whole lot of
cultural stuff happening, so.
671
00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:25,860
It's big.
672
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:26,730
It's a lot.
673
00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:31,650
But the, the one thing is
it's a very authentic space.
674
00:39:32,610 --> 00:39:32,940
Yeah.
675
00:39:33,180 --> 00:39:36,930
There's the one thing, the one thread
in common is everyone's face in death.
676
00:39:38,850 --> 00:39:43,260
And just when you were talking about
the diversity of what you're seeing in
677
00:39:43,290 --> 00:39:49,050
that one particular ward, it makes it
very clear that then someone who has
678
00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:56,190
chosen voluntary assisted dying would
be not the right fit for that space.
679
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,440
When, when, when they, and why
the, the need for a hospice is
680
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,810
specifically that they can choose that.
681
00:40:04,395 --> 00:40:07,485
Well, no, not really because, uh,
a lot of people will come from
682
00:40:07,485 --> 00:40:09,765
palliative and go, I, I've seen this.
683
00:40:10,275 --> 00:40:11,265
I'm not going there.
684
00:40:11,685 --> 00:40:12,045
Please.
685
00:40:12,225 --> 00:40:14,595
I, I'm, I want to finish
it now beforehand.
686
00:40:14,595 --> 00:40:14,655
Yeah.
687
00:40:14,655 --> 00:40:15,225
Okay.
688
00:40:15,255 --> 00:40:16,515
So it's, yeah.
689
00:40:16,515 --> 00:40:18,255
They, they both really work together.
690
00:40:18,825 --> 00:40:24,045
I think the, the problem is in the,
in certain hospitals, they turn you
691
00:40:24,045 --> 00:40:27,225
away when you want voluntary CYS to
die, and that shouldn't be the case.
692
00:40:27,465 --> 00:40:31,605
In an ideal world, if you are in
palliative Palliative and you wanna
693
00:40:31,605 --> 00:40:35,145
end it, you should be able to end it,
and then you should be able to go into
694
00:40:35,145 --> 00:40:38,745
another space that is for that space.
695
00:40:39,975 --> 00:40:42,855
But there isn't that option
at this point in time.
696
00:40:43,275 --> 00:40:43,485
No.
697
00:40:44,655 --> 00:40:48,435
And that it may very well end
up being there on our journey.
698
00:40:48,765 --> 00:40:54,075
It may very well be that the best
option is to, to allow that to happen
699
00:40:54,645 --> 00:40:56,655
and it go there into another space.
700
00:40:56,655 --> 00:41:00,135
But that doesn't fix the problem
for the people who choose to
701
00:41:00,135 --> 00:41:01,605
die and they wanna get out of.
702
00:41:03,135 --> 00:41:03,855
Environment.
703
00:41:04,575 --> 00:41:05,805
They don't wanna die in there.
704
00:41:06,075 --> 00:41:09,315
70, 70% of people don't
wanna die in a hospital.
705
00:41:09,585 --> 00:41:11,535
It's not a medical event.
706
00:41:12,075 --> 00:41:18,195
We need to remind ourselves that
dying is, is a, is a core human
707
00:41:20,565 --> 00:41:21,555
right of passage.
708
00:41:23,295 --> 00:41:25,035
It's not a medical event.
709
00:41:25,335 --> 00:41:30,075
So that would be for someone who
is comfortable to die in hospital.
710
00:41:30,075 --> 00:41:34,515
They feel comforted by that, but the
majority of people don't want that.
711
00:41:34,905 --> 00:41:37,725
They wanna be looking
out at a last sunset.
712
00:41:38,355 --> 00:41:43,425
They wanna be by the ocean, they
may wanna be in nature, they want to
713
00:41:43,425 --> 00:41:49,185
be somewhere where it's revered and
they're, they're honoring and it's
714
00:41:49,185 --> 00:41:51,165
sacred to the decision that they've made.
715
00:41:52,095 --> 00:41:55,875
And they wanna be able to die in
a peaceful way, uh, surrounded
716
00:41:55,875 --> 00:41:59,835
by their loved ones and not
in a hospital environment.
717
00:41:59,985 --> 00:42:01,695
So, yeah.
718
00:42:02,235 --> 00:42:06,135
And I guess back to the question that
you're asking me, the support of the
719
00:42:06,135 --> 00:42:11,415
family, it's a, it's a lot it know
for them to be, they're not trained.
720
00:42:11,415 --> 00:42:12,585
Families aren't trained.
721
00:42:12,855 --> 00:42:16,365
If they're lucky enough to have someone
in there that, that is experienced and
722
00:42:16,635 --> 00:42:21,045
death comfortable or has a background,
then they're leading the way.
723
00:42:21,405 --> 00:42:24,615
There's some people that
inherently step up and, and can
724
00:42:24,615 --> 00:42:25,995
lead the way, but it's a lot.
725
00:42:26,505 --> 00:42:30,975
So that's why a hospice is really good,
because a hospice is holistic, parents's
726
00:42:31,065 --> 00:42:32,715
helping the family to come through.
727
00:42:33,255 --> 00:42:36,375
And really, let's just say it's
three days we've been, there's a
728
00:42:36,375 --> 00:42:39,765
lot of talk about how long does the
family get to come in and do that?
729
00:42:40,095 --> 00:42:41,985
Well, you do all of your goodbyes at home.
730
00:42:42,225 --> 00:42:46,005
You have your living wake, you,
you say goodbye to everybody.
731
00:42:46,245 --> 00:42:50,655
Then you come to the hospice and
let's say you have three days.
732
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:54,480
Three nights where you
have a big cuddle bed.
733
00:42:55,140 --> 00:43:01,530
You know, the setup is really different
and there's ways that everybody's
734
00:43:01,530 --> 00:43:05,670
supported there and, and make them
feel so incredibly comfortable.
735
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,750
And the person hopefully at that
stage is really not in a lot of pain.
736
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:15,390
They're really in their, in their
essence, and without anxiety, without
737
00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:16,950
stress, they're, they're resolved.
738
00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:22,470
In palliative, it's all about is pain
management, is someone screaming and
739
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:24,300
writhing in pain, which you see a lot.
740
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:24,630
Yeah.
741
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:30,960
They are constantly assessing and
reassessing and pain management and
742
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,310
different things that are happening.
743
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:38,520
And some of the time in palliative,
palliative, there's a resistance to the
744
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,670
morphine or the morphine's gonna knock
them out and I won't see them again.
745
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:45,000
And you know, that's really
the time that the person dies
746
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,960
for someone is when they're.
747
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:47,970
Cold and they never come back.
748
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:52,110
So this is a very
different scenario, right?
749
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,890
Mm. You've got somebody who is
well before that because they've
750
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:57,990
decided, I, I don't wanna do that.
751
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,050
I see that and I don't wanna
put my family through it.
752
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:02,520
I don't wanna go through it.
753
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:05,640
So it's a very different environment.
754
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:11,490
You've got families coming in who are all
chatting and everybody is in full agency.
755
00:44:11,790 --> 00:44:12,150
Yeah.
756
00:44:12,210 --> 00:44:18,930
And you're also in your, I I've, I've
met people who are joking and telling me
757
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:24,960
their life stories, and they're completely
normal and they're just headed that way.
758
00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:30,180
In the next six months, it's
going to be hor horrific.
759
00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:32,280
Harrowing and brutal.
760
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:33,480
Yeah.
761
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,560
So you're seeing them here and
it's sort of, for some families
762
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:38,700
it just doesn't make sense.
763
00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:43,350
It's like, mom, dad, I, you,
you are robbing me of time.
764
00:44:43,950 --> 00:44:47,069
Time that I, I wanna have
with you, but the question is,
765
00:44:47,069 --> 00:44:49,859
what quality of time is that?
766
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,850
And someone wants to be
dignified as they go.
767
00:44:53,850 --> 00:44:58,919
They don't wanna be in nappies to be
changed, to be rolled over from bedsores.
768
00:44:59,819 --> 00:45:00,180
Yeah.
769
00:45:00,629 --> 00:45:03,995
And each one, there's no right or
wrong, is there, if that's your choice.
770
00:45:04,015 --> 00:45:04,234
No.
771
00:45:04,439 --> 00:45:05,490
That's your choice.
772
00:45:05,790 --> 00:45:12,180
No, but for me, when you've been talking
through the, the process and, and,
773
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:15,810
and the differences between palliative
and, and voluntary assisted dying.
774
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:20,580
For me, I suppose that the point that when
I was talking before was the fact that.
775
00:45:22,065 --> 00:45:27,255
It is very different stages for me in
my head about how I view it, because
776
00:45:27,705 --> 00:45:31,965
in a care facility and what those
facilities would look like would
777
00:45:31,965 --> 00:45:33,645
be probably very different things.
778
00:45:33,645 --> 00:45:36,705
And I think you've made a, made
a really good example of that at
779
00:45:36,705 --> 00:45:38,745
explaining those needs as well.
780
00:45:38,745 --> 00:45:45,945
So someone is very medical needing that,
medical assistance in a palliative, uh,
781
00:45:46,035 --> 00:45:50,955
nature and an environment where they're,
they're talking about pain management.
782
00:45:51,315 --> 00:45:51,375
Yeah.
783
00:45:51,465 --> 00:45:56,475
Uh, and, and then we've got the
diversity of that, but then with
784
00:45:56,475 --> 00:46:00,045
voluntary assistance, assisted dying,
it's something very different, isn't it?
785
00:46:00,315 --> 00:46:00,405
Yeah.
786
00:46:00,465 --> 00:46:04,335
Like, it is the, the wake speed,
the living wakes being had.
787
00:46:04,395 --> 00:46:08,115
If, if that's what they've chosen,
you know, then it's really.
788
00:46:08,805 --> 00:46:13,065
Having a place that I suppose is a
neutral environment that is a canvas
789
00:46:13,065 --> 00:46:14,565
to whatever they want it to be.
790
00:46:14,775 --> 00:46:15,795
Absolutely.
791
00:46:16,065 --> 00:46:17,145
That's the hospice.
792
00:46:17,505 --> 00:46:18,674
That's it.
793
00:46:18,674 --> 00:46:18,735
Yeah.
794
00:46:19,185 --> 00:46:21,855
It's a, it's a neutral place,
and it doesn't have to have
795
00:46:21,855 --> 00:46:24,194
a hospital vibe to it at all.
796
00:46:24,375 --> 00:46:27,674
I mean, the bed could
even be just king beds.
797
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:29,415
They don't have to be sitting up.
798
00:46:29,625 --> 00:46:33,075
It depends on where the person is on their
journey at, at the moment, because the
799
00:46:33,075 --> 00:46:38,895
law is six months, you know, for Victoria,
like it's a year or six months, they
800
00:46:38,895 --> 00:46:41,955
will be at a stage where they're sick.
801
00:46:41,955 --> 00:46:43,904
They've got six months that
they're gonna be really skinny.
802
00:46:44,205 --> 00:46:46,694
They're going, like, if they've got
cancer, whatever their condition is,
803
00:46:46,995 --> 00:46:48,645
they're not going to be looking normal.
804
00:46:48,944 --> 00:46:49,245
Right.
805
00:46:49,305 --> 00:46:50,835
They're going to be headed that way.
806
00:46:51,255 --> 00:46:54,645
So we are trying to, we want the
laws to be able to help someone
807
00:46:55,035 --> 00:46:56,805
die earlier and, and dementia.
808
00:46:56,805 --> 00:46:59,025
I mean, this is, this
is, this is a hot topic.
809
00:46:59,505 --> 00:47:02,565
Dementia just seems to be
really rife everywhere.
810
00:47:02,565 --> 00:47:02,865
Right?
811
00:47:03,279 --> 00:47:03,500
So
812
00:47:05,685 --> 00:47:06,585
why can't they?
813
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:11,130
Decide if it can happen so fast.
814
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:15,630
Recently, some friends, the, my
mother, she got diagnosed with dementia
815
00:47:15,630 --> 00:47:23,700
and the, the, it was such a, such a
fast, brutal decline, you know, of,
816
00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:28,230
of losses, you know, just every day
something more and more and more.
817
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:29,010
And it was really quick.
818
00:47:29,010 --> 00:47:30,060
And other people, it's not.
819
00:47:30,450 --> 00:47:31,830
But why can't that person go?
820
00:47:31,830 --> 00:47:33,510
I know that I'm gonna lose my mind.
821
00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:36,930
I wanna say goodbye to everybody
and then I can go, I mean, that's
822
00:47:36,930 --> 00:47:38,070
really where it should be at.
823
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,640
But, 'cause you need to be
able to sign and have choice,
824
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,290
capacity, control, full agency.
825
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:47,490
You need to be very aware at the
six months before you, when you
826
00:47:47,490 --> 00:47:52,200
sign to take your medi, to take
the, um, elixir to kill yourself.
827
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:56,940
That's, you know, that robs all
of those people with dementia.
828
00:47:56,970 --> 00:48:02,280
And so you've got a whole lot of
people suffering that, that decline.
829
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,390
And same with MND.
830
00:48:05,279 --> 00:48:07,350
Same with any neurological disorder.
831
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,180
It's really, really brutal.
832
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:13,470
So yeah, it's that.
833
00:48:13,470 --> 00:48:19,109
That's the picture and coming out of
that darkness, 'cause it is really heavy.
834
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:21,540
I wanna go back to palliative as well.
835
00:48:21,540 --> 00:48:25,020
I wanna paint a nicer picture of
palliative that people are in there
836
00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:27,569
to get nutritional needs done.
837
00:48:28,170 --> 00:48:31,049
Nutritional needs met, and
occupational things done.
838
00:48:31,049 --> 00:48:35,339
They've gotta come in, okay, we need
a new wheelchair, a different walker.
839
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:39,089
You know, there's a lot of rooms
that are having these things done.
840
00:48:39,089 --> 00:48:41,430
Just assessments on the journey.
841
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:42,479
Journey.
842
00:48:42,839 --> 00:48:43,169
Yeah.
843
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:48,000
But as MND kicks in and those
sorts of neurological disorders
844
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,290
get really nasty that someone, they
should be able to, to get voluntary
845
00:48:52,290 --> 00:48:53,939
cys dying, but they, they're not.
846
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,470
So that's the palliative end
and then voluntary Cy Dying's.
847
00:48:58,500 --> 00:48:58,859
Yeah.
848
00:48:59,044 --> 00:49:01,709
I, I think, I hope, is
there any other questions?
849
00:49:01,709 --> 00:49:02,759
I hope I've explained that.
850
00:49:02,759 --> 00:49:02,970
Okay.
851
00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:05,279
It's, it's, it's a lot isn't it?
852
00:49:05,825 --> 00:49:06,540
It is a lot.
853
00:49:06,540 --> 00:49:07,140
And yeah.
854
00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:12,660
And also, um, for someone who may never
have actually been associated with what
855
00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:18,060
palliative means and what those, uh,
that looks like, I think it's really
856
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:21,359
helpful with how you've gone through
with some of those explanations and just
857
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:23,365
the diversity of, of what palliative.
858
00:49:23,895 --> 00:49:28,035
A palliative ward can, can contain,
so anyone from someone who's just
859
00:49:28,035 --> 00:49:32,895
been diagnosed to just getting
some, some, some, uh, tube feeding
860
00:49:32,895 --> 00:49:36,465
or something like that for, for
deficiencies in their nutrients or
861
00:49:36,465 --> 00:49:40,875
something like that to write through
to someone who needs 24 hour support.
862
00:49:40,875 --> 00:49:44,625
So I think it's really good that you've
gone through that process and explained
863
00:49:44,625 --> 00:49:46,245
that because not everyone's familiar.
864
00:49:46,665 --> 00:49:50,565
Uh, I've only had the, the one
experience in our family where we've
865
00:49:50,835 --> 00:49:55,245
had someone who went through the,
the palliative process, uh, and it
866
00:49:55,245 --> 00:50:00,525
was a. A really great experience for,
for us as well, as good as it can be.
867
00:50:01,035 --> 00:50:04,845
Uh, you know, when, when you do
go through that, uh, and, and
868
00:50:04,845 --> 00:50:08,715
the staff were amazing and so
supportive during that whole process.
869
00:50:09,105 --> 00:50:13,275
But I think then it's really good because
then it provides some context for people
870
00:50:13,485 --> 00:50:17,985
when you're actually talking about why
it's so important to have a hospice
871
00:50:18,075 --> 00:50:22,965
dedicated to voluntary assisted dying
and people who have, have chosen that.
872
00:50:22,965 --> 00:50:23,025
Yeah.
873
00:50:23,115 --> 00:50:26,595
Because that is something that
those needs are very unique.
874
00:50:26,805 --> 00:50:27,015
They are
875
00:50:27,195 --> 00:50:28,125
so unique.
876
00:50:28,215 --> 00:50:28,515
Right.
877
00:50:28,515 --> 00:50:30,945
At the very end, especially
that's very unique.
878
00:50:31,425 --> 00:50:32,715
They're quite separate.
879
00:50:33,045 --> 00:50:34,395
I see what you're saying.
880
00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:37,665
When, when you say they're quite
separate, I totally agree with you.
881
00:50:37,995 --> 00:50:44,925
But the end result is, is of course
palliative is the natural, leaving it up
882
00:50:44,925 --> 00:50:47,745
to nature of when the body chooses to die.
883
00:50:48,225 --> 00:50:53,339
And that's not always a, a. An easy
thing, you know, on Tuesday, just this
884
00:50:53,339 --> 00:50:59,100
Tuesday, I, I went and sat with, with a
parent of a friend in active dying stage,
885
00:50:59,490 --> 00:51:06,569
and I said, I said to them something
that I say to everybody that what you
886
00:51:06,569 --> 00:51:12,210
are seeing, you know, the death rattle,
the laboring of death, we, we come into
887
00:51:12,210 --> 00:51:17,190
this world laboring, you know, there's
a full labor of the birth of the baby
888
00:51:17,460 --> 00:51:23,640
and we leave this world laboring if we
are lucky enough to leave like that.
889
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:29,310
If it's not a sudden death and it's
the usual linear process, the timeline
890
00:51:29,310 --> 00:51:35,940
and or from a life limited illness and
old age as you go into active dying
891
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:43,649
stage, it's, it's, it's labor laborsome,
it's, it looks terrible and usually
892
00:51:43,649 --> 00:51:45,419
what the person is going through.
893
00:51:46,380 --> 00:51:50,580
It's not what we're seeing and what
we're witnessing, but it, when you start
894
00:51:50,580 --> 00:51:54,360
to say, look, it's laboring out of, out
of life, and it's not a pretty sound.
895
00:51:55,050 --> 00:52:01,620
And I also recently spoke to a, a thin
ontologist who plays harp music as
896
00:52:01,620 --> 00:52:03,540
people are dying and, and crossing over.
897
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:09,720
And she said, Barchie, I harp music's
not pretty because I'm not playing c
898
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:14,370
notes and heart notes as the person's
dying because they're trying to die.
899
00:52:14,730 --> 00:52:18,600
So if they're connecting to
heartbeat and their heart's wanting
900
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,830
to stay alive to this music, I'm
playing really off, off tunes.
901
00:52:23,220 --> 00:52:24,930
And I thought, wow.
902
00:52:24,930 --> 00:52:24,950
Oh wow.
903
00:52:24,990 --> 00:52:27,720
Isn't that amazing information?
904
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:28,830
I was like, wow.
905
00:52:28,830 --> 00:52:33,090
She said, oh, it's pretty, I have to
tell you it's, it's sort of a bit ugly.
906
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,970
And I was blown away by that.
907
00:52:36,270 --> 00:52:38,370
But it made so much sense.
908
00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:42,060
You can't even, wasn't it playing
this music when someone's trying
909
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:44,130
to die where the heart is?
910
00:52:45,045 --> 00:52:48,285
Pumping to to beautiful reggae.
911
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:49,230
Yeah.
912
00:52:50,009 --> 00:52:51,910
But I had never thought of that, but that
913
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:53,109
makes total sense.
914
00:52:53,290 --> 00:52:53,710
Mm-hmm.
915
00:52:54,170 --> 00:53:00,075
And here I was, you know, imagining this
angelic harp music and crossing over as
916
00:53:00,075 --> 00:53:03,225
I go, no, the body doesn't need that.
917
00:53:03,285 --> 00:53:04,634
The body is trying to go.
918
00:53:04,935 --> 00:53:09,795
And a lot of people have to realize
that that why people die between
919
00:53:09,795 --> 00:53:13,484
three and five in the morning
and not in the quiet silence.
920
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:18,630
Of that, those hours, and not with
family members and not with all
921
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:19,950
different energies in the room.
922
00:53:20,610 --> 00:53:24,600
It's because they're latching onto
someone's crying or, you know, it's
923
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,549
hard to die as it is, but having family
members around making it even harder,
924
00:53:30,029 --> 00:53:33,600
that's like the, people wonder why
after you leave the room they die.
925
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:35,490
Yeah.
926
00:53:35,490 --> 00:53:39,270
It's something I always explain to
people, you need to be really in a very
927
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:43,529
peaceful place and in resolve, and you
gotta leave your shit outside the door.
928
00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:45,029
'cause it's really about them.
929
00:53:45,029 --> 00:53:48,630
You can go and deal with that
after, but really, you know,
930
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:49,980
it's a rite of passage here.
931
00:53:50,279 --> 00:53:55,350
You gotta meet, meet that person,
and this dying and laboring out
932
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,029
is, it's, it's really full on.
933
00:53:57,029 --> 00:54:00,210
But there of course, in liminal space
and moving through and who knows what's
934
00:54:00,210 --> 00:54:04,980
happening, but something very, very
spiritual and very beautiful and,
935
00:54:05,070 --> 00:54:07,080
and very sacred is, is occurring.
936
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,700
But it doesn't sound good.
937
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:09,660
And it doesn't look good.
938
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:11,040
Yeah.
939
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,900
Actually it looks horrible
and it sounds awful.
940
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,520
Yeah, it's traumatizing
for a lot of people.
941
00:54:17,940 --> 00:54:21,690
But once you see that over and over
again and you realize, wow, okay,
942
00:54:22,410 --> 00:54:23,790
this is what death looks like.
943
00:54:23,790 --> 00:54:27,900
This is active dying, you know, you
become more death comfortable with it.
944
00:54:28,350 --> 00:54:31,500
And when you speak to friends
who've gone through multiple
945
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:34,680
deaths or seven deaths, they're,
they're, they're death comfortable.
946
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,000
They're like, oh, I've seen this before.
947
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:36,990
I know what's happening.
948
00:54:37,530 --> 00:54:46,080
And, um, yeah, it's, we all, it's,
it, it, it always just surprises me
949
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:51,630
and it, I'm forever questioning why
we aren't doing this so perfectly well
950
00:54:52,140 --> 00:54:53,940
when 10 out of 10 of us are gonna die.
951
00:54:53,940 --> 00:54:54,930
We all know this.
952
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:55,890
Yeah.
953
00:54:55,895 --> 00:55:00,690
Why, why are we struggling in 2025?
954
00:55:00,690 --> 00:55:03,480
I mean, come on, let's get this sorted.
955
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:05,250
Everyone needs this education.
956
00:55:05,250 --> 00:55:06,240
It should all be.
957
00:55:07,170 --> 00:55:11,490
We, we should be meeting death so
beautifully in western society, like
958
00:55:11,490 --> 00:55:13,080
they do in the indigenous cultures.
959
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,430
What, what are we doing?
960
00:55:14,940 --> 00:55:19,980
We've need to reconnect and
bring it back to, to being human
961
00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:21,480
'cause it's not a medical event.
962
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:25,890
And be so grateful for modern
medicine and so grateful for
963
00:55:25,890 --> 00:55:31,080
palliative and so grateful for pain
management and, and wonderful advice.
964
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,589
But we need to, to step it
up and bring it back home.
965
00:55:34,740 --> 00:55:36,660
We need to rehumanize it again.
966
00:55:38,970 --> 00:55:43,830
And how do you think that the average
everyday person, perhaps our, you know,
967
00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:50,609
our people who are death virgins, how,
how do you suggest that they, they
968
00:55:50,759 --> 00:55:53,790
perhaps, you know, explore, you know, the
969
00:55:53,790 --> 00:55:55,980
inevitable nap out of it?
970
00:55:56,129 --> 00:55:57,450
Come on, wake up.
971
00:55:58,095 --> 00:55:59,145
Get your head outta sand.
972
00:55:59,655 --> 00:56:01,035
You need to lean into death.
973
00:56:01,665 --> 00:56:04,995
And back to what you were saying
before, it shapes how we live.
974
00:56:06,015 --> 00:56:09,105
If you don't go there and you
don't explore it, and you don't
975
00:56:09,105 --> 00:56:14,835
get curious about it, and, and
there's, oh, there's places to go.
976
00:56:14,835 --> 00:56:17,895
I mean, you know, come on, you
go to funerals, everything.
977
00:56:18,135 --> 00:56:19,365
People are dying around you.
978
00:56:19,365 --> 00:56:21,195
You know, people are dying in war.
979
00:56:21,855 --> 00:56:25,575
There's so many that, uh,
look what happened in COVID.
980
00:56:25,605 --> 00:56:25,695
Mm-hmm.
981
00:56:26,385 --> 00:56:29,235
Pull your head out, lean
in, get yourself organized.
982
00:56:29,565 --> 00:56:32,565
Really ask yourself, what am I afraid of?
983
00:56:32,655 --> 00:56:34,245
Have, have conversations.
984
00:56:34,245 --> 00:56:35,350
Start the conversations.
985
00:56:35,380 --> 00:56:36,430
Just start them.
986
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:37,270
Start somewhere.
987
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:37,990
Do something.
988
00:56:38,020 --> 00:56:42,930
Take a step because you can
run, but you can't hide.
989
00:56:44,745 --> 00:56:45,915
I love that Bob Marley song.
990
00:56:45,915 --> 00:56:47,774
You can run, but you can hide.
991
00:56:48,375 --> 00:56:50,415
It'll get you, it'll get you in the end.
992
00:56:50,475 --> 00:56:54,285
You can keep on running, but
you're gonna have to face it.
993
00:56:54,585 --> 00:56:59,415
And the sooner you do that, uh, the
sooner you can liberate yourself and
994
00:56:59,415 --> 00:57:00,975
the sooner you can get on with living.
995
00:57:01,455 --> 00:57:02,685
And there's that wonderful saying.
996
00:57:02,685 --> 00:57:05,055
Think of death often,
then get on with living.
997
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:05,529
Yeah.
998
00:57:05,625 --> 00:57:06,524
Think of death often.
999
00:57:06,615 --> 00:57:07,785
Then get on with living.
1000
00:57:08,444 --> 00:57:10,575
Think of it, talk about it.
1001
00:57:11,055 --> 00:57:13,185
Make a preparation, action it.
1002
00:57:13,484 --> 00:57:14,565
Then get on with living.
1003
00:57:15,044 --> 00:57:15,944
Oh, this pops up.
1004
00:57:16,395 --> 00:57:18,915
Lean in, deal with it.
1005
00:57:19,274 --> 00:57:20,265
Be responsible.
1006
00:57:21,404 --> 00:57:22,399
Step up action.
1007
00:57:22,399 --> 00:57:22,560
It.
1008
00:57:23,265 --> 00:57:24,405
Get back on with living.
1009
00:57:24,675 --> 00:57:26,685
It's, it's, it's not that hard.
1010
00:57:26,745 --> 00:57:29,265
That's the dance you've
gotta do, you know?
1011
00:57:29,265 --> 00:57:31,185
It's part of being an adult, isn't it?
1012
00:57:31,190 --> 00:57:31,670
It's part of it.
1013
00:57:31,675 --> 00:57:35,565
Put your big boy, big girl,
big whatever, pants on.
1014
00:57:36,075 --> 00:57:36,195
Yeah.
1015
00:57:36,195 --> 00:57:37,035
And get it done.
1016
00:57:37,335 --> 00:57:41,025
And you know what's really
interesting is anyone that I push
1017
00:57:41,025 --> 00:57:42,735
and I, oh, I gotta hassle everyone.
1018
00:57:42,735 --> 00:57:43,515
I'm like, really?
1019
00:57:44,025 --> 00:57:44,955
I'm very pushy.
1020
00:57:45,435 --> 00:57:48,135
I come back to them all and I
say, listen, how do you feel now?
1021
00:57:48,585 --> 00:57:50,205
And they all say a lot better.
1022
00:57:50,565 --> 00:57:52,095
That's the whole point, the liberation.
1023
00:57:52,095 --> 00:57:56,475
So I've got this three step
process, conversation, preparation,
1024
00:57:56,985 --> 00:57:59,085
liberation, you know, that's it.
1025
00:57:59,085 --> 00:57:59,145
Yeah.
1026
00:57:59,265 --> 00:58:00,135
It's not that hard.
1027
00:58:00,405 --> 00:58:08,775
You living, knowing that you've got
that peace of mind and you don't have
1028
00:58:08,775 --> 00:58:10,635
to actually always have the answer.
1029
00:58:11,205 --> 00:58:12,945
You can say, I don't actually know.
1030
00:58:13,635 --> 00:58:14,415
And that's okay.
1031
00:58:14,415 --> 00:58:14,655
But.
1032
00:58:15,390 --> 00:58:19,200
It could be this, it could be that I'm
gonna sit on it and I'm gonna think
1033
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,120
about it and I'm really confused.
1034
00:58:21,420 --> 00:58:25,920
But if something happens to me
in between, uh, let's just say
1035
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,300
for me, I'll give you an example.
1036
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:30,810
I don't know whether I wanna be
burnt cremated or terminated because
1037
00:58:30,810 --> 00:58:32,970
termination hasn't been legalized here.
1038
00:58:33,330 --> 00:58:34,890
So right now it's, it's cremation.
1039
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:39,180
But if I haven't updated anything
and termination comes in, or if
1040
00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:44,100
you can get me terminated, which
is human composting, do that.
1041
00:58:44,460 --> 00:58:46,770
So I've got a little bit
of if, maybe whatever.
1042
00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:49,050
And also, sorry guys, I'm so confused.
1043
00:58:49,350 --> 00:58:53,310
You make the decision, but this is kind
of what I prefer and this is what I want.
1044
00:58:53,310 --> 00:58:55,260
And if it ends up being cremation, great.
1045
00:58:55,260 --> 00:58:56,670
Go, go ahead with that plan.
1046
00:58:57,090 --> 00:58:58,050
That's okay.
1047
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:00,300
You, it's okay to be like that.
1048
00:59:00,750 --> 00:59:02,640
Do I want, I want a bit of
this, I want a bit of that.
1049
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,380
Or I'm got a bit of Buddhism.
1050
00:59:04,380 --> 00:59:09,060
I'm an absolute mess in my death
prep around the spiritual part.
1051
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,490
'cause I don't wanna be buried.
1052
00:59:12,225 --> 00:59:13,725
In the Jewish ceremony.
1053
00:59:13,725 --> 00:59:17,475
I don't want a Jewish part of this, but
I want traditional Judaism, and I want
1054
00:59:17,475 --> 00:59:21,584
this, and I want a bit of Buddhism, and
I want a bit of, um, my shamanism, I
1055
00:59:21,584 --> 00:59:26,444
want all of the parts of me that make
up me, but it makes her a really crazy
1056
00:59:26,444 --> 00:59:29,444
memorial, and who's gonna organize it?
1057
00:59:29,444 --> 00:59:32,084
I'm like, well, they're gonna really
stuff it up, so I've gotta organize it.
1058
00:59:32,084 --> 00:59:34,875
So what bit am I gonna pull
in that's going to honor each
1059
00:59:34,875 --> 00:59:36,285
of those aspects of myself?
1060
00:59:36,765 --> 00:59:39,615
So I'm not perfectly done.
1061
00:59:40,245 --> 00:59:44,504
In actual fact, I, I'm a bit of a
mess, but not in the practical sense.
1062
00:59:44,504 --> 00:59:45,464
But it's okay.
1063
00:59:45,464 --> 00:59:46,424
I'm comfortable with that.
1064
00:59:46,754 --> 00:59:49,904
I'll just have the
conversations and say, sorry.
1065
00:59:50,685 --> 00:59:52,274
It's, I don't know.
1066
00:59:52,544 --> 00:59:55,995
I'm, I'm here at the moment and
it's a work in progress, so if
1067
00:59:55,995 --> 01:00:00,044
something happens, you know, I've just
recorded my eulogy explaining that.
1068
01:00:00,254 --> 01:00:00,584
Right.
1069
01:00:00,584 --> 01:00:01,064
That's good.
1070
01:00:01,064 --> 01:00:02,924
I, I, I have it on record now.
1071
01:00:02,924 --> 01:00:03,495
This is good.
1072
01:00:03,495 --> 01:00:03,765
Yes.
1073
01:00:03,975 --> 01:00:04,585
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1074
01:00:04,634 --> 01:00:05,535
Exactly right.
1075
01:00:05,540 --> 01:00:10,004
So, so do tell us again, remind
us the five, the five Hs.
1076
01:00:10,860 --> 01:00:13,140
Oh, heart help
1077
01:00:13,740 --> 01:00:17,400
hope and humor and be honest.
1078
01:00:18,270 --> 01:00:18,690
Yeah.
1079
01:00:18,690 --> 01:00:19,590
How beautiful.
1080
01:00:19,590 --> 01:00:20,340
Be honest.
1081
01:00:20,755 --> 01:00:25,290
And, and what was the, the last three
that we also need to do to prepare?
1082
01:00:25,290 --> 01:00:27,330
Oh, the three steps.
1083
01:00:27,420 --> 01:00:29,550
And I like to say fit.
1084
01:00:29,970 --> 01:00:30,750
Fit for death.
1085
01:00:31,140 --> 01:00:31,470
Okay.
1086
01:00:31,470 --> 01:00:35,310
Because people go, oh, fit because,
you know, everybody's obsessed
1087
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:37,140
with their health and wellbeing.
1088
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:37,680
Yeah.
1089
01:00:37,830 --> 01:00:39,720
You know, everyone's
obsessed with living well.
1090
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,280
No one wants to deal with living well.
1091
01:00:41,550 --> 01:00:46,170
Everyone's obsessed with being fit
for life, fit for jogging, fit for
1092
01:00:46,170 --> 01:00:50,910
presenting, fit for relationship,
fit for Pilates, fit for drinking.
1093
01:00:50,910 --> 01:00:52,290
A green smoothie every day.
1094
01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:55,590
Uh, fit for life, but
no one's fit for death.
1095
01:00:56,370 --> 01:00:58,950
So if you wanna get fit,
there's three steps.
1096
01:00:58,950 --> 01:01:00,330
Steps to your fitness.
1097
01:01:00,330 --> 01:01:02,640
And that is one, talk about it.
1098
01:01:02,970 --> 01:01:06,150
Two, prepare three.
1099
01:01:07,005 --> 01:01:08,295
Have fun, liberate.
1100
01:01:08,505 --> 01:01:12,765
That's when you can just relax
and it's really only two steps.
1101
01:01:12,765 --> 01:01:13,005
Right.
1102
01:01:13,005 --> 01:01:15,075
But the third one is
what you are aiming for.
1103
01:01:15,645 --> 01:01:16,605
Yeah, totally.
1104
01:01:16,904 --> 01:01:17,115
Yeah.
1105
01:01:17,115 --> 01:01:20,115
And the conversations don't have
to be so morbid, you know, you can
1106
01:01:20,115 --> 01:01:22,005
just have a cup of tea with someone.
1107
01:01:22,005 --> 01:01:25,245
Oh yeah, I gotta watch this
Netflix, you know, series.
1108
01:01:25,245 --> 01:01:26,444
It's so good.
1109
01:01:26,835 --> 01:01:27,319
Oh, I cooked.
1110
01:01:27,795 --> 01:01:29,235
Best meal last night.
1111
01:01:29,295 --> 01:01:32,055
Da, how do you wanna die?
1112
01:01:32,055 --> 01:01:35,055
Do you know if you wanna be buried or
do you know if you wanna be cremated?
1113
01:01:35,055 --> 01:01:35,835
Have you thought about it?
1114
01:01:36,315 --> 01:01:36,855
Yeah.
1115
01:01:36,855 --> 01:01:37,185
Okay.
1116
01:01:37,635 --> 01:01:37,995
Alright.
1117
01:01:37,995 --> 01:01:40,545
Where do you know where I
can take up these genes?
1118
01:01:40,785 --> 01:01:42,615
Like just slip it in.
1119
01:01:42,945 --> 01:01:47,535
It doesn't have to be, oh, you know, we're
gonna sit and talk about death and dying
1120
01:01:47,805 --> 01:01:51,555
small, but no, you know, and if you've
come out of somewhere at a hospital and
1121
01:01:51,555 --> 01:01:54,675
you're visiting someone and you've seen a
tip and a trick, go, Hey, you know what?
1122
01:01:55,245 --> 01:01:59,265
I just went to visit someone and they
were dying and they put a salt lamp in
1123
01:01:59,265 --> 01:02:04,695
the room, or they had this beautiful,
um, essence smell going, and I asked them
1124
01:02:04,695 --> 01:02:06,105
what it was and it was called release.
1125
01:02:06,135 --> 01:02:06,825
Oh, that's good.
1126
01:02:06,825 --> 01:02:12,075
You know, maybe, you know, you
should give someone an BL doula.
1127
01:02:12,615 --> 01:02:14,115
Two hours with an end of life dollar.
1128
01:02:14,115 --> 01:02:17,654
Instead of those $80 flowers that
you've just thought that are gonna
1129
01:02:17,654 --> 01:02:23,384
die, everyone starts to, if everyone
could start socializing death and
1130
01:02:23,384 --> 01:02:28,634
dying, we're going to be a lot better
in our responses and a lot better
1131
01:02:28,634 --> 01:02:30,375
equipped to deal with death and dying.
1132
01:02:30,705 --> 01:02:32,205
Normalizing death and dying.
1133
01:02:32,205 --> 01:02:33,945
This is where my radical realist comes in.
1134
01:02:34,365 --> 01:02:35,265
Fuck that.
1135
01:02:35,384 --> 01:02:36,075
You kidding me?
1136
01:02:36,735 --> 01:02:37,695
Normalizing.
1137
01:02:37,695 --> 01:02:41,625
It's the most normal thing that
that is happening is death.
1138
01:02:41,835 --> 01:02:44,955
That's the most normal thing,
and it's, it's guaranteed.
1139
01:02:45,615 --> 01:02:48,225
Socializing is where we need to step up.
1140
01:02:48,645 --> 01:02:50,355
We need to socialize, death and dying.
1141
01:02:50,685 --> 01:02:54,465
And the only way we can do that
is through having very normal
1142
01:02:54,465 --> 01:02:59,445
conversations while we're socializing
it and doing what we do already.
1143
01:02:59,445 --> 01:03:03,195
You prepare for work, you get up and
you prepare what you're gonna wear.
1144
01:03:03,195 --> 01:03:07,575
You prepare the food for dinner,
you prepare a trip well, you
1145
01:03:07,575 --> 01:03:09,585
prepare to go on a walk or a hike.
1146
01:03:10,395 --> 01:03:13,125
You prepare, you're preparing all day.
1147
01:03:13,905 --> 01:03:16,185
Everything's about freaking preparation.
1148
01:03:16,605 --> 01:03:18,945
So why is death preparation any different?
1149
01:03:19,785 --> 01:03:22,245
Yeah, why so true.
1150
01:03:22,245 --> 01:03:26,715
And I, I love the way in
which, uh, it's, it's not about
1151
01:03:26,775 --> 01:03:28,935
normalizing, it's about socializing.
1152
01:03:29,025 --> 01:03:31,875
I think that's absolutely spectacular.
1153
01:03:32,025 --> 01:03:32,715
Thank you.
1154
01:03:33,015 --> 01:03:34,305
And you're gonna use that now too.
1155
01:03:34,725 --> 01:03:36,015
You need to socialize it.
1156
01:03:36,315 --> 01:03:36,645
No.
1157
01:03:36,645 --> 01:03:37,095
Love it.
1158
01:03:37,665 --> 01:03:39,675
What are we on this normalizing death?
1159
01:03:40,185 --> 01:03:43,545
Could it not be the most
normal thing, by the way?
1160
01:03:43,755 --> 01:03:45,285
Like, come on, snap out of it everyone.
1161
01:03:45,765 --> 01:03:46,965
It's time to socialize.
1162
01:03:46,965 --> 01:03:47,895
Get up and socialize.
1163
01:03:47,895 --> 01:03:48,555
Talk about it.
1164
01:03:49,125 --> 01:03:51,585
If we don't, we are just gonna end up.
1165
01:03:51,795 --> 01:03:56,685
I'm sick of having the same conversations
from 15 years of age to, to 52.
1166
01:03:57,885 --> 01:04:00,945
I'm sick of people going, can
you believe what happened?
1167
01:04:01,635 --> 01:04:03,795
Yes, I can actually.
1168
01:04:04,635 --> 01:04:05,685
I can't believe that.
1169
01:04:05,685 --> 01:04:07,545
You can't believe that that's happened.
1170
01:04:07,815 --> 01:04:07,995
Yeah.
1171
01:04:08,055 --> 01:04:11,565
Oh, and I just don't wanna hear
another story about an aftermath of
1172
01:04:11,565 --> 01:04:14,550
death where something shit's gone
wrong, or this wasn't organized.
1173
01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:17,445
Get it together, get it organized.
1174
01:04:17,475 --> 01:04:20,685
I wanna have conversations so
people go, oh, you know what?
1175
01:04:20,685 --> 01:04:20,985
Thank.
1176
01:04:21,305 --> 01:04:25,445
God, you told me, or so and so
told me this because we did this.
1177
01:04:25,655 --> 01:04:30,185
And as a result that, thank God
my mom organized that because when
1178
01:04:30,185 --> 01:04:33,725
this happened, I was so grateful
because she had all of this planned.
1179
01:04:33,995 --> 01:04:35,345
We didn't have to do anything.
1180
01:04:35,735 --> 01:04:38,715
And, and at the end there was
a little note for me, and, and
1181
01:04:39,005 --> 01:04:40,595
I want these conversations.
1182
01:04:40,955 --> 01:04:46,595
I wanna be talking about how well we
died, how well someone died, how well
1183
01:04:46,895 --> 01:04:50,975
prepared someone was, and even though
it was shit, and death is horrible.
1184
01:04:50,975 --> 01:04:52,625
There's no such thing as a good death.
1185
01:04:53,075 --> 01:04:54,875
Death is not good.
1186
01:04:55,175 --> 01:04:57,605
Someone is suffering in someone's death.
1187
01:04:57,995 --> 01:05:04,025
But a well-prepared death where critical
information is given beforehand that
1188
01:05:04,025 --> 01:05:08,465
you can act on, things are done, where
it's smooth, where you're not left in
1189
01:05:08,465 --> 01:05:15,245
a mess of, of paperwork and admin and
being blind and not understanding where
1190
01:05:15,245 --> 01:05:17,885
anything is or, or finding out stuff.
1191
01:05:18,424 --> 01:05:19,895
That should have been dealt with earlier.
1192
01:05:20,945 --> 01:05:27,395
That a, well, a well prepared death
allows us to, to grieve, to be in
1193
01:05:27,395 --> 01:05:33,365
sorrow, to be present, to understand
when someone's wishes are met.
1194
01:05:34,295 --> 01:05:40,475
And it, it allows for
so much honoring Yeah.
1195
01:05:40,654 --> 01:05:42,125
And reverence at that time.
1196
01:05:42,125 --> 01:05:45,275
So yeah, I want these
sorts of conversations.
1197
01:05:45,930 --> 01:05:46,620
That's what I want.
1198
01:05:46,620 --> 01:05:47,640
I'm over the other ones.
1199
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,080
They're out the door enough.
1200
01:05:49,980 --> 01:05:50,220
Yeah.
1201
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,540
Actually, I can't, I can't thank
you enough for being a guest today.
1202
01:05:54,540 --> 01:05:57,299
It's been absolutely
spectacular talking to you.
1203
01:05:57,299 --> 01:05:58,650
I love talking to you too.
1204
01:05:58,740 --> 01:06:01,620
Thank you for having me, and I
look forward to having you on mine.
1205
01:06:04,319 --> 01:06:07,740
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,
1206
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:09,779
brought to you by Critical Info.
1207
01:06:10,529 --> 01:06:14,790
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1208
01:06:14,790 --> 01:06:16,620
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1209
01:06:16,890 --> 01:06:20,490
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1210
01:06:20,490 --> 01:06:22,259
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1211
01:06:22,410 --> 01:06:26,580
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1212
01:06:26,580 --> 01:06:28,290
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1213
01:06:28,589 --> 01:06:29,970
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1214
01:06:30,089 --> 01:06:31,080
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1215
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:35,009
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1216
01:06:35,009 --> 01:06:41,220
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Resources
Connect with Baci Hillyer:
- Instagram: @_deadicate_
- Website: www.deadicate.com
- Make Death Admin Easy with The Critical Info Platform
A simple system to sort your personal paperwork for when your information becomes critical.
- My Loved One Has Died, What Do I Do Now?
Our guide, ‘My Loved One Has Died, What Do I Do Now?’ provides practical steps for the hours and days after a loved one's death. Purchase it here.
- Support Services
If you're feeling overwhelmed by grief, find support through our resources and bereavement services here.
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