ALICIA: [00:00:00] People always assume that I wrote a book about death because I'm obsessed with it. I love the idea of death. I'm a stoic and all this kind of stuff, but I was just terrified. Like I have always been the child, the person who spiral at night, going to my mom and crying like, I don't want you to die. I don't want you to die.

CATHERINE: Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead. A podcast encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one. I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to bring your stories of death back to life because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared.

Don't be caught dead. Acknowledges the lands of the Kulin nations and recognizes their connection to land, sea, and community. We pay our respects to their elders past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander [00:01:00] and First Nation peoples around the globe.

Today I'm speaking with Alicia Ng Alicia is a brand and content marketing consultant and a multimedia creative who helps people and brands tell their stories clearly and intentionally. Her work spans industries and continence from luxury and automotive to education and FMCG, but she's always chasing the same thread.

How to make ideas land on a human level. This same curiosity spills into her creative work. She's the author of the Final Gift, a Compassionate Workbook on End of Life Planning and Willow's. Tea Tales, a children's story about presence and connection. She also hosts Stories in Transit, a podcast about life's pivots and identity shifts, inviting honest conversations about who [00:02:00] we become in the messy middle of change.

Thank you so much for being with us today, Alicia. 

ALICIA: Thank you for having me. 

CATHERINE: So Alicia, we briefly met only recently and it was over a match, which was fantastic, and I have to say it was so nice to talk about the common ground and complexity of working in end of life planning, but I found that you started off this because you have a fear of death.

ALICIA: Yeah, yeah, I do. People always assume that I wrote the book about death because I'm obsessed with it. I love the idea of death. I'm stoic and all this kind of stuff, but I was just terrified. Like I have always been the child, the person who spiral at night going to my mom and crying like, I don't want you to die.

I don't want you to die. And very classic tele phobia. And some point I just realized that the fear isn't going anywhere. So I could either keep running away from it or run towards it like a [00:03:00] unhinged person that I am. It wasn't really a dramatic moment, it was just like kind of a mindset maybe like having that growth mindset growth is really a core value for me.

And I was always pushing myself towards something and going out the comfort zone. So I went into death literature 'cause I did mention to you like Men Search of Meaning staring into the sun. I even picked up a fiction book that actually got started into this whole death or like actually going to the deep end.

Which is the regrets of Clover. She's a death doula, so I'm like, what is a death doula? I heard of a doula. Dunno what a death doula is. Got curious research and actually enrolled into a course. 'cause i's like, Hey, I can probably hold space for people. Maybe I can hold space for myself. Got the certificate and spoiler alert, I can do it.

I saw the gaps. I wanted to help people, but I just couldn't help them at a BA site because my 10 phobia would actually get to me at the end. So what I could do was actually write and create. And that's why as a journal person, I'm like, journal, passion, [00:04:00] knowledge, put it together. And that's how I have the end of life planning book.

And it is just me pouring into everything that I know into this book and figuring out and hoping it will get to somewhere you don't know where it's gonna do, but I mean, I met you so it went to somewhere. 

It has. And tell me, let's go back a little bit about when you first found out that you had that fear of death.

Like you talk about your childhood, was it nightmares that were the, the thing that you first started having or are you comfortable talking about how, how you kind of realized of you had this fear? 

I think it was always. Do you know, like when you're going through the day, you're over stimulator, you don't really think much about stuff, and is that moments when you actually fall asleep?

And my brain will go to, like my mom is, my mom is pretty yoNg She's like 55 this year. Still a lot of years left. Yeah. But I was five. She was what? 40 ish. And I was like, oh, she's gonna live 40 years. I only have 40 years left at her. She's gonna [00:05:00] die. If she's dying, I'm gonna die. And then I think about what comes off the death.

I'm born Buddhist. So it's a whole reation everything. I was in a Catholic school, so it's also all about religion and stuff, but the science part of me just couldn't prove that there was something at the end of death or life. And that scared me. Like the whole not being able to exist, not knowing that you exist.

And then it brought me to the, what's the point of life? But that's another story, and it would just trigger this really intense fear and I would just hyperventilate. So it would just be like. Struggling to breathe screaming. Kind of like having to pinch myself to center myself. And I think it's only like maybe five years ago when I actually went to the deaf literature and going through therapy and realized there was an actual phobia and there were people like me.

'cause whenever I explain I have this deaf, and they're like, oh, you know, we are gonna die in like 60 years. So much time. Or try to placate me and say like, oh, you should focus on life. You know, why are you thinking so much about [00:06:00] death? But it just wouldn't go away. And I think. That's also like the point of me going into this journey is trying to identify whether there is a way or there is something to kind of get over this fear.

Like if I can't, if I can get over the fear of heights, I'm probably gonna get over this fear. But yeah, I'm still in the midst, in the thro of kind of figuring things out. 

CATHERINE: So Did you get over the 

fear of heights? 

ALICIA: I did. I don't know where it went. One day I was just like, I am here on the 77th floor loop. I was like, it went away.

I don't know what happened, but it went away. 

CATHERINE: That's really interesting because most people, when they start off with a fear, they think that they will have that fear for the rest of their life. But it sounds like you are in a position where you, you are challenging yourself 

ALICIA: a hundred percent. I would always put myself in situation.

My friends always say, I like to make life hard for myself. It might be stoic thing again, voluntary hardship, call it whatever, but I feel like. I can only grow, I can always [00:07:00] only be a better version of myself if I put myself in places that I'm like in discomfort. I wouldn't say like extreme fear, but just like discomfort and usually in this place of discomfort, kind of like sign breadcrumbs of the universe and then leads to like having this book, having a book launch, meeting you, meeting new opportunities.

And I think that's where I kept going towards. 

CATHERINE: And tell me a little bit about. You know, you're obviously dealing in, in a new space with end of life planning and, and death now, but tell me, what were you doing before all of this? 

ALICIA: I was living a very Singapore in life for people who dunno what Singapore in life is.

There is this thing called Singapore and Dream. You go to the top universities in Singapore, you get a job, you get married, you get a house, you live your happily ever after. I was on that trajectory and that career ladder, getting my first job working in luxury cars. I work with the top brandson like cars, amazing stuff.[00:08:00] 

When to become the content manager of Asia Pacific Forest Spirits distribution. Had my own consultancy, it seems like I'm going to towards that. And December happened. So last year, December, a lot of things happened and I feel like I just needed a clean slate, so I just wipe everything clean and. I was like, I have nothing on my plate right now, so what am I gonna do with my life?

Still remember I had the death to last certificate that wasn't being used. Just chance upon that fiction book that I mentioned to you, and I'm like, I'm gonna sit down here. I'm gonna create 'cause. I dunno about you, but I feel like my life purpose, I have to create, I have to create something if not life is a bit meaningless or purposeless.

So I just sat there, created a book, finished a book in a month, and I talked to my mentor about it. He was like, you two realize no one finished a book in a month. I was like, do they not? What do you mean? But that was the state that I was in and I think Was that book, was that book, 

the children's book that you were working on?

No, it's actually the staff [00:09:00] book. 

Oh, so it was, it was the, okay, the final gift. Yep. 

Yeah. And to make my life harder again, I just started to apply for a visa to Australia and move to Australia. So in a live even harder, someone dropping the idea of having a book launch and I was like, I don't think Singapore would be a place that is accepting of this idea, because you're still very Asian, rare conservative.

Death topic is a taboo. And I'm like, I feel like Melbourne, Australia would be more receiving, more accepting audience. So I was like, let me just attempt to do a book launch and it happened. So I am here. I dunno what's next, but I'm here. 

CATHERINE: And tell me, was there a particular, you said that there was a lot going on in in that December for you, do you mind unpacking some of that, what that can be within your own comfortable space?

Because I think it's, it's good for people to understand where you are at because. Everyone at some point in their life has a lot of things going on, and sometimes it can feel too much and they want a clean slate, but they never [00:10:00] actually go through that process. So yeah, to have you here would be, would be, you know, is a great opportunity for us to sort of explore that.

ALICIA: Yeah, sure. Um, I tie a lot of wealth and value to who I am in terms of productivity and work. So when it comes to career, being a manager, being someone who's always on top of a game is something that's very important to me. Productivity is the way that I see value in my space in this, well, very capitalistic and something that I'm learning right now.

But in December, I had a really messy ending through relationship. At the same time, I had a breakout message from a long distance best friend that came out of doorway. I was going through family issues. My grandma was in a hospital. I decided to quit my job because I was toxic and it didn't pull through with the research Australia.

So I basically lost everything I had in my status, my roles, [00:11:00] and I was like, I'm sitting here with nothing, so what am I supposed to do? At the same time, because I was going through so much emotional stuff, I just said to my clients like, I need to stop. I don't have the bandwidth to give you the best work.

So I need to take a break and like thank you for everything and all this kind of stuff. So I was sitting there back in my family home and going like, I dunno what I'm gonna do. Like I literally had no plans. I'm someone who usually have like a five year plan, a 10 year plan. I know how my life is gonna look like, where it's gonna go, and suddenly it's just gone.

It's just outta my, like swept out of my feet. And I think that's the amount of grief that I was facing 'cause. I went to my therapist and she said, you shouldn't have, you know, change up your life, move to a different country because you need to ground yourself and everything. I was like, you know what?

Since I already lost everything, I have nothing more to lose. And I think that's the mindset I went to. It is like, I have nothing else to do, so what can I do now? I have no pride. I'm, yeah, like ego [00:12:00] wise, I think it's more like a ego death if you believe in that. And yeah, I think that was my journey in December to maybe March, April.

CATHERINE: And so you packed your bags and you moved to Melbourne. Yes, I did. But let me take us, before we talk about your experience in Melbourne, can we you take me back to New Zealand, because that's where you, you did the doula clock course, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. How did you end up in New Zealand when you and doing a decal course when you specialize in marketing 

ALICIA: and brand?

I, so I took, I think when I was 28, I took my first leap of faith, just quitting my corporate job and starting my consultancy business as a marketing and freelancer. So I think that's when I was like, oh, I have autonomy, I have freedom. Let me just go to a different country and live. 'cause I know I don't wanna be in Singapore.

I didn't prescribe to the way that Singaporean or most [00:13:00] Singaporeans live. I'm not shaming it. I'm just saying that it's not the life that I want and. To New Zealand causes a new is. Is that that 

CATHERINE: Singapore dream that you explained earlier? 

ALICIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I moved to New Zealand 'cause I'm like completely different landscape, way slower.

Trying to force myself to again unlearn any limiting beliefs or productivity, capitalistic mindset. So at the same time when I was during a consultancy and because as a consultant you'd be working less an hour than full time. So I'm taking my time to like, what can I do? I did beekeeping, I did flower Polynesia, I did things that, yeah, I did things that I would never do in any way of the world.

And I wanted to be like, I have time. Let me learn something, pick something up. And yeah, I love learning. That's about it. So. That was when I read the book and I was like, oh, deaf doula. What is a deaf doula? Went to do it. Did a bit of research since at time was with my friend, my housemate did. And I say like, do you know what a deaf doula is?

Do you know that I can [00:14:00] actually help people grieve when their loved ones are nearing the end of their life? And you're like, oh, I think it'll be a good thing for you. So final course did a course. It was supposed to be a three day course, and I finished it in one day because that was how committed I was.

So yeah, so that was how I got the death doula certificate. But I still couldn't get into palliative care because I know in theory it works. In theory, I could see myself doing that, but practical, like in reality, I know just being surrounded by people who are grieving or, or even seeing someone pass on would trigger my death phobia.

And I feel like that is not a good combination to have. 

CATHERINE: Tell me, it seems to be a common thread with you that you will quite happily take a, a leap of, you know, some people might call it a leap of faith or a risk, or, you know, to completely do something and put themselves outside their comfort zone.

You've done this [00:15:00] like not once, but twice you've, you've moved to New Zealand, you've beekeeping was amazing and being a, trying to become a death dollar and doing some research on that. And then coming to Australia, you know, again, and another wiping the slate, clean moment for you. So where do you think that this comes from?

ALICIA: I really think it's a fear of death because. It's really having a fear of death really give me that perspective that I'm gonna die tomorrow. And I think by having that whole momentum tomorrow, you remembering your die, obviously we want to touch with and be like, I'm gonna live a full life of 80 or 90.

But it's give, it's really having that mentality like, I might die tomorrow, so what would I regret if I not do something? And yeah, I'm someone who, not sure if you are aware of the poet Silver PL and her poem factory. The way that she has different options. 

CATHERINE: That's weird because I actually love Sylvia Plath poetry and studied her in my last year at school.

ALICIA: Oh, [00:16:00] amazing. Yeah, so the factory poem really stick to me because it's having the endless options of different lives, and it's always the case of like, I'm not gonna see myself behind the desk sitting for 40 hours. I remember getting into my first job and asking my supervisor, is this what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life?

Is this what I'm gonna do? It is just Groundhog Day. Autopilot and I'm like, there has to be more than this. So once I felt like my time was up in Singapore, there was like the right circumstances, I was like, I just feel, I don't feel ready, but I feel like I need to change something and I feel that the moment I get stagnant or.

Maybe there's a breadcrumb from somewhere. Someone said like, why don't you move to New Zealand? It would just be in my hate. And if that idea is in my hate for another one or two months, I'm gonna do it again. I have to acknowledge that I'm also privileged enough to take this differently of faith. I do not have any commitments.

The worst case scenarios, always going back to my family's home because it's my worst case scenario. It isn't a word. So I have to say [00:17:00] that I'm privileged enough to do all of this. I'm not gonna, yeah. But it's really that momentum Maori, which is, I'm gonna die tomorrow. So what can I do with today? What risk?

When I say risk, it's also calculated risk. I'm not gonna be yolo and like, you know, spend all my savings, go travel the world and be like, what's next? But within my capability and my resources, what can I do to optimize my life right now? 

CATHERINE: It's really interesting that your fear of death has actually made you braver to live the life and also value more, put more value on the life that you're living now, which is really an interesting concept and, and considering that you were raised as a Buddhist, you went to a Catholic education with having exposure to both those different religions.

It's surprising that your fear of death didn't actually motivate you to go down the, the path of faith. What was, was there a particular point in time that you [00:18:00] recall that you realized that you were more of a science-based person, as you mentioned, rather than a, a faith-based person? 

ALICIA: It was interesting 'cause a lot of my friends who are religious would be like, have you considered, you know, religion?

I was like, I have, I really have. I went to literally order religion. Institute. I went to Hinduism, I went to Hindu Temples, I went Buddhist temple, read about capitalism, went to so many churches, and like nothing stuck. Nothing really fits me and be like, oh, I can believe this. And I heard of so many stories about people saying that their gods are speaking to them and I love it for them.

But I did not have that experience. And because not having that experience, it's hard for me to acknowledge or kind of like get into it. Maybe one day it would happen, who knows. But right now it's more of the signs, not really like what my mind is telling me is that it's just gonna be nothing. It's just gonna be like slipping into a long sleep and just not waking up.

That kind of stuff. So [00:19:00] yeah, as much as I'll let to get into it and have a faith to kind of like anchor that fear, it is not happening for now. Yeah. 

CATHERINE: Okay. So we then arrive in Melbourne. And so this would've taken us to, was it December that you arrived of 2024? No, it's April. You arrived in April of 2025.

Yeah. So made the decision in, in started to make the decision. And over that sort of four month process, what happened when you arrived? 

ALICIA: Apartment hunting was one, like the housing market here is in sea. It was, yeah, housing. I think it's like the logistics first. It's a very type, a organized person. I'm like logistics, I just wanna get apartment.

I knew my goal in Melbourne is more to like settle down because I've been doing that digital nomad life for quite a bit. 'cause in New Zealand I was traveling every two weeks. Like I was just up myself. Goal, new experience, novelty, chasing novelty was a huge thing. [00:20:00] Um. Moved to Australia, I was like, I, I am tired.

December has trained me. I am tired. I really wanna settle down. I wanna stay here and force myself to stay because there is also learning and stillness and I'm, I know myself, I know that I always chase chaos and just peace. So I'm choosing peace and album, and that's the whole theme. Um, try to build a community.

Bumble friends, what's going on to Bumble friends, trying to meet people. Think we had a gathering and someone actually, we were talking about books and how her mom was an author and she did book launch and my book came about and they're like, that is a really interesting topic. You should do a book launch.

And just said like, oh, it has to be scouts. It has, we read and black, everyone can theme. I was just laughing it off and I just stuck with me. I started thinking about what are the resources that I need to have a book launch. I have planning events for 800 over people. It's for like high net worth individuals.

So even planning comes second nature to me. But it's the selling part, the [00:21:00] RSVP, finding a venue. So I just shot my shot with a couple contacts that I knew here because some of my ex colleagues are here, and I just say like, Hey, do you know anyone who want to do the venue? 'cause I wanted to do a book launch about death and someone came through, so I had a meeting to them and I was like, oh, I think a book launch is gonna happen.

So yeah, that was what happened in my four months 

CATHERINE: here. So tell me about the, the writing process. So, and, and how it differentiates from when you did your children's book. And, and maybe we should talk about your children's book for first and your experience with that, and then how it was so different when you were doing your final gift.

ALICIA: Yeah. So. I journal a lot and during my therapy session, my therapist also gave me like a list of 365 journal prompts. So one of them was if you were a book or a character, what would you be, et cetera. And I was like, I'm gonna be a bitch. I'm gonna be a witch, and I turned woods. I'm gonna be doing tea, I'm [00:22:00] gonna be healing people.

This kind of stuff. And somehow I think I was, I was also bored. I was really bored in New Zealand. Somehow went like, oh, I think that could be a children's book. And that happened and I found an illustrator did it, and I was like, okay, a children's book is happening. It's very chill. And what's the title of it again?

It's Below Details. So it's Below The Witch helping Going around the Ever Woods. I think. I can't believe I forgot the setting of my book, but it's a. It's a fantasy lens. So it's words helping like different people, healing them to like kind words and loads of tea. And I love tea. So the end of the book has actually have like 40 recipes that anyone can do.

So it's like very chill. It's a bit about homo as well. So like, you know, lemon, ginger, elderberries, things that help you. So that was a very chill, fun children's book situation. And seeing it come to life, I was like, ah, a book. But the deaf book was, I saw get, I [00:23:00] think it's sold. Bigger backstory. In the last maybe three years, I lost my paternal grandmother and my aunt, and for my paternal grandmother, it was immediately, once we know that she was gone, my dad just jumped into like funeral planning.

Super, like organized, tick, tick, tick, kind of checklisting, and I think the entire family only kind of. Realized that she was gone or felt that she was gone when she was being cremated. So can you imagine like when she was growing up in flames and everyone's like, ah, she's gone. I was like, oh, should have thought about it earlier.

And it was just jarring for me. That experience, that wasn't my first death. I had like great grandparents and my godfather passing away, but I was too young to understand. I just know I didn't wanna go near the coffin. I refused to go near any coffins. 

CATHERINE: And when you say that, did you witness the, the cremation.

Yeah, I did. So I was Can you talk us a little bit about that? Yeah. Because it might be different to how we [00:24:00] actually have, or people have experienced it here. Yeah, if you can talk about that, that'd be great. 

ALICIA: My experience with the crematorium is a bit iffy 'cause I realized that I dissociate sometimes when things get a bit traumatic.

So that's, yeah. I just remember going to the, like we were at a funeral and then it was the coffin bear or pool berries, bringing her to the, the car and. Driving to a crematorium. We were all sitting, standing there actually and watching her coffin go into the crematorium, getting cremated, the dissect, and everyone was just witnessing from a distance.

So it just felt like, I didn't feel like it was humane at all. There was no sense of that. Coffin is my grandma. It was just a coffin going to something getting burnt. Very detached. A very detached feeling. And yeah, so that wasn't, that was I thing when people realized that she's gone. There isn't a. You don't see her face, you don't feel her presence.

There's nothing about it or that, nothing about that funeral or that process that was helped. 

CATHERINE: And [00:25:00] Alicia, how old were you when you experienced this? So it was in the last three years, was it, did you say? Yeah, 

ALICIA: so I think it's like 25, 26. 

CATHERINE: And this was the first funeral that you can remember being present at?

ALICIA: I think my Godfather one was the first one that I remember because I remember. Vicariously. I refused to go near the coffin and that's because he passed away in a very horrific motor by accident. I didn't wanna see the body. I was there. 'cause I think in Buddhist culture, we have like a three day practice where we just folding like hell money or like paper money to burn off for the one who had passed on.

'cause like burning paper money actually allows them to have a better afterlife where they get more richer. So the more that you burn, the more that you fall. It's more like. Practice and prayers that will get to them, to the afterlife. So that was the first one that I remember. The second one was my grandmother, and the most recent one was during COVID, where my aunt passed away and she was [00:26:00] going through terminal cancer.

So she finally passed on from the terminal cancer, but it was during COVID. So it was one of the unfortunate times that you can't really have a funeral, you can't really have people going to the hospital. And she was really big. She didn't really have a will. So post not only that funeral or that ceremony was released at, because not a lot of people can go there because of the will, the law just sticks.

And also the practical methods. There's a lot of tension in the family of where it goes to who and all this kind of stuff. And I found that I'm gonna use quite a heavy work, but it's just disgusting. Like grief is already so heavy put on top, like paperwork. Now you're fighting over materialistic goods.

To me, I was like, this, there has to be a better way in grieving or in celebrating someone's life. This is not a celebration. This is not a lack of love. Yeah. 

CATHERINE: And was it that sort of what you experienced during that time and the [00:27:00] lack of, of planning that you saw and the impact that that had on your loved ones, how did that then inform how you went through with your writing process?

ALICIA: I think when I wrote my book, that was three objectives, and I think the first thing we covered was really the momentum. Maori trying to live life a bit more intentionally and also not on autopilot, which is why the first part of the book is a life review. I want people to think, am I doing right in my life?

Am I living on autopilot? Am I showing up fully? Is this a life that I want to continue living with clarity? And I feel that once you realize, or once you do the live review, I'm hoping that people will actually realize that they don't have much time in the sense that I have already gone through so much in my life, my romantic relationships, my childhood, my first career.

There's only so much more. And when they think about. Every choice, every conversation, every meal, I hope would matter to them a bit more because time is fleeting and this life is fleeting. [00:28:00] So that's really that presence of a autopilot choices that really reflect the life that you want. And the second part is where the gap comes across.

'cause I want to make this book ease or is a man for family members or even loved one to kind of make life easier when you, or even the family member pass. So there's that gap. And I wanna ease that weight. Not because I want people to think about death all the time, but it's more of a act of love. And some people may also give me the counter arguments like, I'm not gonna have kids, you know, my family members are gonna pass on outside me.

And I was like, but you still matter. At the end of the day, you're still human being, you still matter. You still live in memories of people. And if you really, really wanna be objective, someone do have the plan of funeral. So do it for them, whoever that person is. That's a really the second objective, which is take that burden off people you love, give them a really clear cut manner of what they want to do.

And I acknowledge that some people would be like, what if your family is conservative, conventional, and you wanna do [00:29:00] things like that? Which is why in some parts of the book I say like, you have to give flexibility for your family members to do things within their resources, their means in the cultural appropriation.

And that's something that. We have to acknowledge like we would love to throw the biggest, grand ballroom, funeral, whatever, but if it's not within that means we can't have it. And I think the last objective is just my favorite is really the name Sacred, which is the final gift because that's the last physical thing I believe would be left of you.

It will be holding love, clarity, memories, playlists, legacy projects. Just something for your family to remember you after. And I think I'm making a bold assumption here that we all want to be remembered. We all want to matter, so we rarely give ourselves the permission to decide how that look like. And I think this focus, that permission is that.

Opportunity that gateway into how you will be remembered. So it's really about empowering people to leave clarity, love and themself as them behind and yeah. So [00:30:00] this is how it came about when I was writing that book. Was it terribly that Yes. Was it also confronting Extremely. 

CATHERINE: I have to thank you firstly, Alicia, for being so open and, and honest with your responses and, and at any time you can certainly, you know, yes, say no, it's, we're not gonna go there.

But do you mind sharing, you know, just what were the challenges that you faced? What were the things that you found confronting when you were having to think through this process? 

ALICIA: Yeah. I cried a lot when writing this book, which was a first 'cause I. Write poems when I was younger. And it's always like a channel or like cathartic to kind of bring that across.

And it's more like I cried, therefore I wrote a poem instead of, I wrote, therefore I cried. And that's not because I was thinking about death, but I was thinking a lot about my life, my childhood, my family, childhood, my relationship with people. There is this from that, but, and it's like, what are the top three friendships in your life?

And I was like, am I even gonna make on one list? I was like, how dare they? [00:31:00] So it's really thinking about. Life, who I am, the essence of me that I change. It was also, I don't think I was writing for strangers at certain points of time because of writing, but at Virgin or myself who probably didn't know better yet or didn't have the permission to dream and think that I was gonna have a book lunch, have a book.

The last thing I was thinking was also my parents because they spend so much of their lives in survival mode and I talk a lot about privilege and I also have the privilege of, you know, living my life in the sense that I can slow down, I can create, I can choose to upend my life and move overstate by digital.

So I, I thought about them and I felt so like, ha, we in secret. And it was also. Ego confronting, not just emotionally confronting. I had the very classic imposter syndromes going, like, what if I get something wrong? What if people think that I do not have the authority to write about death? I mean, I'm 30, I'm healthy, I'm thriving.

I didn't have any [00:32:00] close family members pass from me. Or even like, what if no one gets it? What if no one care? Because again, I come from Singapore. Death is a taboo. No one wants to talk about it. A lot of my Asian friends also, like, what do you wanna think about death? I don't think it's a good thing. The more you talk about it, the more it will come to you, kind of like superstition.

So yeah, it's also that fear of being seen and I double check with like lawyer friends, insurer friends, put disclaimers saying that this is just something that is of a personal journal. Then it will not overpower your bill, your power 20 years, et cetera. But. I think the last thing is also that writing this book I thought would get magically beat me of my fear of death.

It doesn't spoiler a lot. Again, I still get the late night spirals at 11:00 PM I'm not gonna exist. Panic. And that hasn't gone away. I don't think it will go away, but I think for me it's just keep pushing the edge further. And if it's gonna stay, it's fine. It can write shotgun, but it's not [00:33:00] gonna drive, you know.

CATHERINE: And what do you hope people get out of the book when they read it and when they go through the different prompts that you've provided 

ALICIA: a whole bunch? I think one surprising factor when I wrote the book pre and post was pre, I was writing a book about death, and again, people are like, why you obsess with it?

You don't need to get to it yet. I'm not gonna die yet. But when I launched my book to a group of like 30 peoples from 25 to 70. I asked one question, which I assume would have a few hands up, and it was, what will you do if someone passed on? No one had an answer. I was like, what do you mean you're gonna call a funeral director?

I think that really hit me and goes like, this is why I'm creating this. This is why this book exists. Because no one has that education. No one has that literacy to kind of understand what they're gonna do. And again, it's still. Making the assumptions. We have Infinite Mondays, we have infinite tomorrows to do this and learn about [00:34:00] this.

So I really want to have that awareness in realizing like what happens when someone pass? Even educating them on the glossary of vocabulary. Like what is the power attorney? What is Bill? What is death insurance? Also allowing them to understand there's a huge amount of tasks to do once someone pass.

Have you even considered where your pets are gonna go? Have you considered your wifi password? Do you know what your mom's Facebook password is? People gonna message her like, happy birthday, birthday, or this kind of stuff. And yeah, it's really just during the educational, during that awareness, because I assume being in my hate for the last 30 years that this are all.

Information that will come naturally. But when I release this book, I realized that that's missing. And I think that's another gap that I wanna fill. Not for my sake, like I'm not gonna go around being like, oh, I'm the best. I know everything about death. I don't, but I want to be that spark of conversation [00:35:00] that gets to people and it's like, oh, I'm now thinking about death.

I think I know what to do next. Like just having that sense of security for them. Would, I think it would be an achievement or a little bit of success on my end. 

CATHERINE: And tell me what were some of the responses from people when you had the book launch? 

ALICIA: Someone cried, which to me was a success like that. I'm like, I made someone cry.

I'm very happy because I feel like that's the emotional response. And I like back to human psychology, once you have an emotional response, you know there's gonna be an action point later. I think that's what I'm trying to get. There was a lot of response of like the very. Normal stuff. Like what is a coffin?

Like who's gonna hold my coffin? This kind of stuff. What is a power attorney? What is the death doula? And it's really just asking questions, which to me was great because curiosity come in and a lot of people actually, one person actually went like, oh, this is a bit confronting, isn't I was like, yes, which [00:36:00] is why we're here, which is why I'm trying to make this like educational and understandable for layment.

One person even started creating her funeral playlist and there was like Total Africa. I was like, I love it. Congrats. Continue building on your playlist. And people also came up to me and saying that they have been considering having a death doula because they didn't know if the existence of that role, which is also another great stuff.

So I think all in all I'm trying to say is that from questions going like, oh, skepticism and everything, and actually being there and seeing why I created this book, and it's for them. Seeing that lack of knowledge that they have actually spurred a conversation further and I think that's what I was really happy about at the end.

And also even have the deaf bingo to improve the glossary because like here, the deaf bingo stuff you probably wouldn't understand. Go around and chat with people so that you can somewhat understand or come to me. 

CATHERINE: Yeah. That'd be great if you can actually talk through, 'cause your intention was very specific about how you wanted [00:37:00] to have the book launch and the location and the activities.

So yeah. Can you talk through that and just explain what those intentions were? 

ALICIA: Yeah, I think. My background as a marketing professional, I approach this as a full marketing professional point of view. What was my objective? What is the tone that I'm going through? What is that gap that I am missing? So the gap is always, people think that death is taboo.

I'm not gonna die it. So my way, even on my social media, first of all, I make the theme color pink. I am not a fan of pink. Pink is friendly. It's. Approachable. So I made it think the whole aim was to make deaf casual, not in the sense that it is like making it of a joke, but more is it like lighthearted. So I want things to be really lighthearted, very casual, very fun.

It's a place for connection. So the venue was actually Centura, which is a place that is known for their ADEs. Like what makes it better than talking about death with a pastry [00:38:00] in hand. Amazing stuff. So I 

love that. 

I know. And the whole event flow would just be like mingling, sitting people down, getting your croissant, getting your drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, depending on who and what you want going into explaining the thing.

I try to keep it as short as possible because I know like information overload, wanting to drive my point across, bringing like storytelling, et cetera, and then breaking into activities because. We want people to know. We want people to have questions. And I love bingo. I don't think anyone hates bingo.

It's super chill, super casual, and I made into a deaf bingo, which is, do you want to have a theme funeral? Do you want only colors funeral? Is there funeral playlist? Do you have a insurance done? And it's more of getting people to connect with. Some came alone, so I want people to actually talk to others, have the.

Have a room of conversations and it's always [00:39:00] like, oh, you wanna have a team funeral? What team is it gonna be? And actually etching that conversation into their mind. So it's really just a dinner party with death. A bit of like emotional, practical, unhinged. I want people to laugh, to tear up and just make it very accessible, but make the entire topic of death accessible.

I think that was where I'm getting into. Yeah. 

CATHERINE: Yeah, it's great. I've had, and I think we've talked about this, my event experiences has been running pub quiz. Yeah. Because, you know who doesn't love a pub quiz as well? It's a bit like bingo. Yeah. And, and they have been hugely successful of, of allowing people to have curiosity and explore the topic of death and end of life planning, but in a non-threatening way, 

ALICIA: a hundred percent.

Another thing that I try to do with my community here in Melbourne is also to, you know, how. Some people do like PowerPoint presentation lights. I was like, do you want to go have lunch and write in our books together? So I'll force 'em to write in their books as well. 

CATHERINE: I love that. I love [00:40:00] that. Forced, forced journal dates, I like that.

Yes. And tell me where to from here, 

ALICIA: Alicia, that is a question that I really don't know the answer to. 'cause right when I up end my life in New Zealand, I don't think I know what is next anymore. But I'm really leaning towards the InBetween right now. I'm waiting for the universe to drop some download, be like, okay, let's have a book launch in Canberra for some reason, or even just a book launch back in Singapore.

But creatively, I'm still building. I'm trying to explore and obviously have chats with people like you about deaf and when to see whether there's any collaboration or even like the Nick's idea that we can just have a bunch of people connect over death in general. Have book launches and events across Australia, even back home.

But I think right now it's really just living, as I said to you, from having that very edge mindset in me as a Singaporean, very perfectionist. Having to do and optimize my life is really just living, [00:41:00] making memories of my friends, starting new projects, saying yes to things that feel aligned. I don't have a five year plans.

I don't have a five year plan anymore, just a compass. So I'm just saying yes to things that feel align and as I say, trying to live like I'm gonna die tomorrow, even if maybe today I have to rest, because that would be a bit hard. I don't know. 

CATHERINE: Well, it sounds like that, you know, from where you first explained that you were and to where you are now, where you wait for the universe to, you know, show you the breadcrumbs and, and signs of where you, you might end up.

That's quite a transition. 

ALICIA: It is. It is huge. Huge. And learnings to do huge therapy sessions on how am I falling back to my old. Habits because it feels safe, because it's comfortable and certain, and I think the biggest lesson right now is just trying to trust the process. I even got a tattoo, a huge one over here to [00:42:00] remind myself to go with the flow because I am so known for fighting against the flow.

I'm so stubborn and rigid in my waist, and this three years has just been me trying to very smooth out the edges and accept that this is where life is gonna bring me, wherever that is. 

I love the fact 

CATHERINE: that you, even though you still have your fear of death, you've really, during this process, worked out what your values are and what's important to you.

But most importantly, you're putting yourself first because I think that you can't do anything moving forward, and if you're not taking yourself and putting yourself first and central to the narrative, and I think that that's so important. So I really do wish you the very best for wherever your breadcrumbs lead you from here on in Alicia.

ALICIA: Thank you. I think something that my therapist also told me, or something that I'm trying to live is alchemizing my trauma and my fears and making it a space or even a product for people to heal. 

CATHERINE: Wow. If all of [00:43:00] us only had that clarity for, for what we could do. So that's really beautiful. Alicia, thank you so much for sharing your story and being so open and honest and, and sharing your vulnerability with us.

ALICIA: Thank you for having me here as well. I appreciate it a lot. 

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