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Life is too hard.

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Life is too painful.

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I will never be free of this.

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I will always feel like this.

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And I remember looking at the year ahead
and thinking, I don't want to keep going.

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It is

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too hard.... Read More

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Life is too hard.

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Life is too painful.

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I will never be free of this.

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I will always feel like this.

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And I remember looking at the year ahead
and thinking, I don't want to keep going.

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It is

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too hard.

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No matter what I do, no matter how
busy I am, no matter how much energy

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I've put into everything I do to create
change, I can never bring him back.

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I can never reverse this.

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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead.

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A podcast encouraging open conversations
about dying and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Katherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to
life because while you may not be ready

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to die, at least you can be prepared.

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Don't be caught dead.

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Acknowledges the lands of the
KO nations and recognizes their

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connection to land, sea, and community.

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We pay our respects to their elders
past, present, and emerging, and

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extend that respect to all Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander and First

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Nation peoples around the globe.

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Today I'm speaking with Rosie Batty.

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Rosie is a tireless advocate
for family violence prevention

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and a symbol of resilience in
the face of unimaginable loss.

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After her 11-year-old son, Luke
was murdered by his father.

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In 2014, Rosie Courageously
spoke out, sparking a national

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conversation on domestic violence.

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As the 2015 Australian of the Year,
she dedicated herself to systematic

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change, influencing policy and
public awareness in her memoir.

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Hope Rosie shares her journey
through grief PTSD and healing,

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offering insight into finding
light after profound darkness.

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Thank you for being with me today, Rosie.

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Hi Catherine.

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Now I have had the opportunity
to hear you speak twice.

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The first time I heard you speak
was at the Sorento Writers Festival

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when you had just released Hope.

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That's right.

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And that was in that April last year.

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And then I also had the privilege
of hearing you speak again

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towards the end of last year at
my local library in Frankston.

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And it was then that I reminded
you of the biscuits that I had

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given you with the crazy Don't be
caught dead symbols all over them.

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And you were kind enough to accept my
invitation on coming on the podcast.

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It was special moment.

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Certainly those, you know, the events
that have been created around my book

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and the opportunity to have meaningful
conversations in places like libraries and

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book festivals and other community spaces.

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You know, it has really been a very
special time where I've really understood

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that people are still interested in
what I have to say and are motivated

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into coming and hear me speak.

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And I think, you know, Frankston
was, you know, late afternoon.

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On a Saturday, a little
prior to Christmas.

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And I think if people are taking the
time out of their weekend to come and

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hear me speak, and there were a lot of
people there and it was numbers that they

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hadn't, you know, they haven't had before.

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How honored and you know I am
and how special that is, is

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something I reflect on a lot.

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And what has that experience of,
especially in that last year since

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releasing Hope, what has those experiences
of being in community and those settings

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taught you about, I suppose that
difference between when the first book

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came out, which was a mother's story
in 2016, everything you've experienced

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since then, and then how community has
responded in sort of the last 12 months.

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Um, I think it's now 11 years
since Luke was murdered.

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His anniversary is for coming up very
quickly and initially I think people were.

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Astounded that somebody who'd
experienced a profound tragedy

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like the murder of your own son and
only son, how could you function?

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How could you stand up?

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How could you move forward?

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Because we imagine that we would
never be able to find happiness again.

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We imagine we would never cope.

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I think we have an impression that
people would be bedridden or housebound

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or incapacitated with their grief.

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So I think initially the fact that I was
able to speak out in a very authentic

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and genuine way cut through, and it had
an impact on so many people and family

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violence and the conversation we were
having about it changed from that point.

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I. Now, that wasn't
something I had planned.

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It wasn't something I knew
really what I was doing.

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It wasn't something
that I'd rehearsed for.

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So I was thrust willingly, it would
say, into the public spotlight,

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and perhaps intuitively and without
real, having any idea of how long I

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would remain in the public spotlight.

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I grabbed those opportunities because I
didn't want Luke to have died in vain.

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And so many people who experience
profound tragedy, no matter what it

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is, have that absolute, you know,
calling to make change in one way the

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way they can, because that gives them
purpose and meaning in ways that they

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hadn't anticipated or had planned for.

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It does give you a reason to keep going.

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And I think those decisions I
made helped me move forward.

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But 10 years later when my book Hope was
released, I think people were curious.

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Again, they hadn't seen me in
the media spotlight as much.

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They were curious as to how
was I going on my journey?

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What was I doing?

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Or what am I doing now?

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How am I, am I doing okay?

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How has it affected me today?

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And to look back on that journey now
that I am, through the intensity of so

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many mental health challenges, I can be
reflective and balanced about that journey

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and I can look back with some regret.

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Some things I would've changed
if I could do them again, but

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an awful lot I did at that time.

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Because it felt right and it was right.

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And I think that certainty that family
violence is a societal scourge that has no

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place in our community and in any family.

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That determination to make significant
change to the best way I could

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personally do has helped me enormously.

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Even though the statistics are still
overwhelming, devastating, and it's easy

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to think, well, has that been a waste?

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Has that been a futile exercise?

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All of the energy and everything
I did, has it achieved anything?

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And those are the
questions you ask yourself.

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Because on the news most days
there will be an incident of family

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violence and there'll be a brutal
and horrendous tragedy where a

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woman predominantly has been taken.

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And left family members and children
devastated and having to face the

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same journey that I'm living through.

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And so it is really important to
be able to recognize some changes

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that give you and continue to
inspire you and give you hope.

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And that's what those community
events and public speaking engagements

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in that varying capacities do.

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'cause I'll always have people
come to me and share intimately

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what a difference it has made.

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And now that could be a victim, survivor
and someone who's felt validated and

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inspired to make courageous change.

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It can be someone who's experiencing
childhood loss and sadness and grief that

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needed to hear my words and I don't know.

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What they take away.

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All I do know is in those conversations
I have as I'm reflective and you

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know, discovering more about myself
each time, you know, I have an

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opportunity to talk in this way.

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There is always that this sharing and
this real conversations we don't always

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have or have the opportunity to have.

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Sometimes it's too close and the people
around us aren't comfortable, or we

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are more open with people we don't know
or the environment or the opportunity.

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We're just too busy and
we don't make that time.

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So when we really engage in conversations
that we have sparked our interest, but a

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topic that we may be very immersed in at
that point, or a part of our life journey,

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that is really where we're really stuck.

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I know personally, being
able to articulate and talk.

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To another human being and to
other human beings helps me process

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and progress, and that is my way.

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But other people don't have the words.

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It isn't their way.

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But I think we can all benefit on so
many levels from hearing those stories,

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which is why I see the value of whether
it's podcasts or audio books or speaking

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engagements and things that we can turn
up to either physically or remotely.

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But through other people's
storytelling and shared experiences,

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we realize we're not alone.

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That so many of our feelings are hidden,
suppressed, because we don't, we realize

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people don't want to always be burdened.

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By the reality of the sadness we may
hold, or the doubts that we have or

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the varying conflicts that we manage.

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So, you know, that's where I feel
very fortunate that through the

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most unfortunate circumstances,
I'm invited and encouraged to do

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what I have always enjoyed doing.

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In the past, it would've been
having a decent conversation and a

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meaningful conversation at a barbecue
with a glass of wine in hand.

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But I much prefer that to a loud to party.

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Well, I'm a bit older now, a loud
party, big music, can't speak, can't

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hear anybody, and it's just, you
know, I've never enjoyed those social

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engagements and those, you know, so for
me it's about genuinely meeting people.

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I. Sparking conversations
of death and reality.

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And we need, I think, to be able
to tune into those or to recognize

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the importance of them as part
of our journey through life.

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You know, I viewed life as a learning
journey and I know that I will

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continue to learn until the very end.

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And so for me, I guess I learn a lot
through other people and what I hear and

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see through their actions, through their
words, through their behaviors even.

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And I guess that's what
makes us social creatures.

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That's interesting that the way in which
you view yourself is perhaps, and this

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is something that you talk quite openly
in hope, and it certainly shows your

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self doubt and your vulnerability, but
also just your authenticity as a person,

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that there isn't anything to hide.

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You're very honest in this book.

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But that started off as a
difficult process, didn't it?

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That when you started that
book writing process with Sue?

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Yeah, well actually, I dunno about being
honest isn't a difficult process for me.

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I think I learned as a child,
I dunno whether I learned it or

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I've always been open and honest
getting in trouble at school.

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I told the truth.

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It's one of my biggest values, being
accountable, telling the truth.

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And sometimes I can say that
that could be blunt honesty,

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which isn't always well received.

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And I've understood that sometimes
that has to be more measured or

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sometimes that has to be more timely.

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So I look at perhaps inspiration and
the modeling I've had from my family.

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Who are genuine, down
to earth, honest people.

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And so I have always aspired
to be like them, I think.

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And I think with my book, what was
challenging is that I didn't really want

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to revisit the painful time of Luke's
murder, but what I really did want is the

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book to reflect honestly the challenges
I faced and some of the regrets I had

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or the self lo being I experienced and
the less than perfect person that I am

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because I felt an imposter on many levels.

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People had put me on this platform
that I felt was unrealistic.

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And when we elevate people like that so
frequently, there is only one way to go.

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And that is we also pull them down.

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And I, you know, that's something I
really never want to have experience.

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So you protect yourself, I guess, as best
you can from, you know, through harm.

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And you know, you experience a lot of
trolling and everyone has an opinion

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00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:18,150
of you and not everybody sees the
way that you grieve or that you are

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00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:23,910
seeking the media spotlight in the
way that I genuinely go about it,

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00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:28,890
which is to amplify the voices of
family violence victims to use my

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00:14:28,890 --> 00:14:31,740
influence to create change where I can.

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00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,680
It has never been about ego and being
put famous and being seen on tv.

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It's a means to an end.

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00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:42,960
And every single time I stood
up in front of the media or on

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00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,850
television in the newspapers, I
was on a mission and I still am.

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00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:52,170
And actually I still find it a little
uncomfortable, but I project myself.

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00:14:52,545 --> 00:14:53,895
In this way.

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00:14:54,135 --> 00:14:59,565
'cause I always have, and people think,
oh, she's so confident and bubbly

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00:14:59,565 --> 00:15:06,315
and personable and warm and friendly
and I am, but I'm also sensitive and

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always thinking, have I got that right?

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Was I good enough?

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Was that okay?

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It in that very moment, I'm expecting at
some point to fail and that that conflict

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is tiring, but it's, I don't know that
I'm ever not gonna be same person without

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00:15:24,345 --> 00:15:26,895
it because it's always been with me.

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00:15:27,375 --> 00:15:30,465
And I guess that is also what
keeps me genuine because I

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00:15:30,465 --> 00:15:32,265
push through those self-doubts.

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00:15:32,595 --> 00:15:36,975
You know, I came from a little village in
England and I had to push myself to get on

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00:15:36,975 --> 00:15:39,435
a plane to Australia traveling on my own.

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And I've had to push myself every
step of the way to go further

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than I ever thought possible.

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00:15:45,795 --> 00:15:49,485
You know, the limitations of career
for me was being a secretary.

224
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:53,340
You know, I didn't aspire and
see anything further than that.

225
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,160
And so, you know, there's been heightened
anxiety and huge self-doubt at different

226
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,650
times where I've surpassed, you
know, even expectations of the small

227
00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:09,060
community I came from in England, and
certainly my family who don't truly

228
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:12,840
understand the work I do and what I do.

229
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,290
And because they're in England,
they have no idea of that.

230
00:16:16,290 --> 00:16:19,470
I'm a recognized family
name by so many people.

231
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:20,430
Mm.

232
00:16:20,820 --> 00:16:25,980
You know what I have found when I
lost my mom and I was only six, my

233
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:28,200
father was a man of his generation.

234
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,250
He didn't know how to say he loved
you, he didn't hug you, but it

235
00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:34,110
was always there in his own way.

236
00:16:34,454 --> 00:16:39,105
And I think that little girl has
always been seeking that demonstration

237
00:16:39,105 --> 00:16:41,025
of love and, and reassurance.

238
00:16:41,355 --> 00:16:48,975
And so I guess that's the thing
that I can take from this experience

239
00:16:48,975 --> 00:16:55,305
since losing Luke, is what an amazing
response people have towards me.

240
00:16:55,545 --> 00:16:58,214
And I hope I can continue to honor that.

241
00:16:58,814 --> 00:17:03,194
Never take it for granted, never
assume it, but continue to embrace

242
00:17:03,194 --> 00:17:08,895
it because it holds me, you know, and
never to become egotistical about it.

243
00:17:09,315 --> 00:17:11,355
So I, I am humorous.

244
00:17:11,504 --> 00:17:13,065
I like to have a good joke.

245
00:17:13,335 --> 00:17:17,595
I can be a little bit too down to earth,
so it depends on my company as to whether

246
00:17:17,595 --> 00:17:20,565
my use of language has to lift and shift.

247
00:17:21,135 --> 00:17:25,545
So, yeah, it's really lovely
that people want me to be me

248
00:17:25,964 --> 00:17:26,655
and Rosie.

249
00:17:26,655 --> 00:17:27,944
It's interesting that.

250
00:17:28,349 --> 00:17:33,030
You know, in hindsight, it gives us
2020 vision to look at where we are.

251
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:33,420
Mm-hmm.

252
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:37,230
Now and what has led us
to be who we are today.

253
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:42,420
From my understanding, from what I've
read, it appears that you were propelled,

254
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:48,690
you had this purpose when Luke died
and you were, I almost feel like you

255
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:52,320
are sort of like in this whirlwind,
it sort of reminds me of Dorothy and

256
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,160
the tornado of the Wizard of Oz, that
you're spinning and you're off, and

257
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,940
you're off on this path, that you really
don't know where you're going to land.

258
00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:00,120
Mm-hmm.

259
00:18:00,990 --> 00:18:05,970
And at what point in time did your
feet touch the ground and go, whoa.

260
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:10,290
Well, I don't think they touched
the ground and went, whoa.

261
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:13,200
In that kind of way, I think hit a wall.

262
00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:20,220
I mean, ultimately I can now
look back and see that I was

263
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,950
avoiding further pain of grief.

264
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:26,940
I was experiencing as
much pain as I could.

265
00:18:27,524 --> 00:18:28,274
Deal with.

266
00:18:28,665 --> 00:18:34,125
And in that pain behind the
scenes, I was drinking perhaps a

267
00:18:34,125 --> 00:18:35,715
bottle of red wine every night.

268
00:18:35,774 --> 00:18:38,055
I had taken up chain smoking again.

269
00:18:38,385 --> 00:18:43,725
You know, some of those health issues
I sit with now because of smoking.

270
00:18:43,965 --> 00:18:50,504
But it's very common for trauma affected
people to self-soothe through addiction.

271
00:18:51,435 --> 00:18:57,855
And that's something that I guess for the
first three years or so, I would think,

272
00:18:57,885 --> 00:19:03,254
you know, was a huge part of my coping
strategy and unhealthy one at that.

273
00:19:03,254 --> 00:19:06,315
But sometimes you do
what you can to survive.

274
00:19:06,735 --> 00:19:13,004
I think being constantly busy with
somewhere every other day, literally

275
00:19:13,185 --> 00:19:18,524
every other day I was traveling
somewhere, helped me avoid sitting

276
00:19:18,615 --> 00:19:21,045
alone without Luke in my home.

277
00:19:21,284 --> 00:19:26,070
And I. It gave me a reason
and a purpose to keep going.

278
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:31,770
And I went to Borneo, I think
it was three years later.

279
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:36,120
And when I came back, I, I was there for
four weeks volunteering at an orangutan

280
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:40,740
sanctuary to avoid Christmas actually,
but wasn't successful because I found they

281
00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:43,980
celebrated Christmas there and everyone
was trying to make something of it.

282
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:45,180
I was like, oh God.

283
00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:46,230
So what did it do?

284
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:50,550
The one thing they tried to get rid of
rubbing salt in the wound and making it

285
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:52,800
worse 'cause it was completely isolated.

286
00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:59,250
And, um, anyway, when I got back, it was
at the early, started the year and again,

287
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:05,220
the anniversary of Luke's death is, you
know, does affect you even if you're not

288
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:13,200
totally aware of it, sitting there at
that anniversary point, and I remember I.

289
00:20:14,175 --> 00:20:18,285
Just looking at the year ahead thinking,
I just don't wanna keep doing this.

290
00:20:18,555 --> 00:20:20,145
Life is too hard.

291
00:20:20,145 --> 00:20:21,735
Life is too painful.

292
00:20:22,215 --> 00:20:24,255
I will never be free of this.

293
00:20:24,735 --> 00:20:26,565
I will always feel like this.

294
00:20:26,835 --> 00:20:31,245
And I remember looking at the year ahead
and thinking, I don't wanna keep going.

295
00:20:32,145 --> 00:20:32,565
Mm. It is

296
00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:33,375
too hard.

297
00:20:33,765 --> 00:20:37,785
No matter what I do, no matter how
busy I am, no matter how much energy

298
00:20:38,265 --> 00:20:44,895
I've put into everything I do to create
change, I can never bring it back.

299
00:20:45,585 --> 00:20:47,655
I can never reverse this.

300
00:20:48,465 --> 00:20:55,365
And I was in Sydney at one point,
sooner around that time, and I was

301
00:20:55,365 --> 00:21:00,945
traveling from one appointment to
the next in this, you know, busyness.

302
00:21:01,455 --> 00:21:07,260
And I pushed open in a taxi door and I. A
bus came past and took it off its hinges.

303
00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:12,000
And I remember sitting there wondering
whether I was relieved I was still

304
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,270
alive or disappointed I was still alive.

305
00:21:16,050 --> 00:21:16,860
Yeah, wow.

306
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:20,580
And I think that really helped
me understand very deeply.

307
00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:27,629
I didn't seek to end my life through
tablets and doing something irreversible,

308
00:21:27,930 --> 00:21:33,450
but I wanted to die and I would've
welcomed something happening to me.

309
00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:36,990
I was almost welcoming
getting cancer or something.

310
00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:42,690
And you know, I now can see
that was around three years.

311
00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:48,690
And perhaps people of that misconception
that by then you're getting on with life.

312
00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:51,270
By then you're over
the worst of the grief.

313
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:55,710
And I think there's many
misconceptions, but one of them is

314
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:58,770
how it has changed your life forever.

315
00:21:59,505 --> 00:22:04,005
And how you have to find a way to
not just recover from the grief,

316
00:22:04,005 --> 00:22:08,175
or part of that is to rebuild your
life and what that looks like.

317
00:22:08,475 --> 00:22:12,015
And that's a journey that's
individual and it's uniquely your own.

318
00:22:12,705 --> 00:22:14,805
And what works for me doesn't
work for someone else.

319
00:22:14,805 --> 00:22:18,795
So what gives me purpose and meaning
isn't the same for someone else.

320
00:22:18,975 --> 00:22:21,315
And not all of us have got that strength.

321
00:22:21,765 --> 00:22:25,395
And unfortunately, people
do fall by the wayside.

322
00:22:26,055 --> 00:22:30,825
And I feel incredibly sad and sorry
for older people who we never really

323
00:22:30,825 --> 00:22:35,565
appreciate the grief and loss that they
feel no matter what stage of life they're

324
00:22:35,595 --> 00:22:42,525
at, through losing their lifelong partner
or their siblings and all the people

325
00:22:42,525 --> 00:22:46,755
they've ever known of, their era and their
time, and the people they've outlived.

326
00:22:47,235 --> 00:22:51,165
And we expect people to
just get old, get frail.

327
00:22:51,629 --> 00:22:53,250
And then be grateful

328
00:22:53,790 --> 00:22:53,939
for

329
00:22:53,939 --> 00:22:57,330
whatever life they're able
to scratch around and find.

330
00:22:57,330 --> 00:23:00,899
And so, you know, I'm aware
that I'm so fortunate.

331
00:23:00,899 --> 00:23:08,250
I'm able bodied, I'm healthy, I'm youthful
enough, I have enough opportunity that I

332
00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:11,610
can reach out for support if I need it.

333
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:17,010
I have at certain times, gone to a
counselor and my doctor and people that

334
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,510
know my journey and know me and have
needed to help me at particular points.

335
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,399
I also have friends, and I think
this is where friends are really

336
00:23:26,399 --> 00:23:31,110
important, is some people can't
handle the intensity of your grief.

337
00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:36,540
They don't expect you to have angry
outbursts and unreasonable responses.

338
00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:40,830
Now I can say that could be grief, that
could be trauma, it could be anxiety.

339
00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:45,480
But all I know is that some of
those disproportionate responses.

340
00:23:45,825 --> 00:23:52,965
Left me feeling with great self-loathing,
regret, remorse, and some of those

341
00:23:52,965 --> 00:24:01,635
people have chosen to resist my
apologies and not being able to

342
00:24:01,665 --> 00:24:04,035
find forgiveness or acceptance.

343
00:24:04,035 --> 00:24:09,195
And I think what has helped me
come back to being who I am now are

344
00:24:09,195 --> 00:24:16,185
those people who saw me at my utmost
vulnerable, my utmost broken, behaving

345
00:24:16,185 --> 00:24:19,515
in ways that I have still shame about.

346
00:24:19,755 --> 00:24:21,345
They held the space for me.

347
00:24:21,705 --> 00:24:23,265
They knew that was my pain.

348
00:24:23,385 --> 00:24:27,345
And that lifetime friendship
or the relationship that we

349
00:24:27,345 --> 00:24:29,235
have could be family members.

350
00:24:29,565 --> 00:24:34,185
Even some of my close working
colleagues over those years, the

351
00:24:34,185 --> 00:24:36,195
fact that they are still with me.

352
00:24:36,525 --> 00:24:42,165
The fact that they are still my friends
and colleagues and have helped me find

353
00:24:42,165 --> 00:24:48,975
myself again and shake off a lot of
that regret, remorse and self-loathing.

354
00:24:49,305 --> 00:24:55,335
And you know, that's where I think
that people don't realize the pain.

355
00:24:55,545 --> 00:24:57,195
It is more than physical pain.

356
00:24:57,225 --> 00:25:01,095
It is a pain that takes up
every part of your body.

357
00:25:01,395 --> 00:25:05,955
And so I now understand why people
lose hope and feel that their

358
00:25:05,955 --> 00:25:08,625
only step is to end their life.

359
00:25:08,655 --> 00:25:14,535
I fully understand it, but I
also know now, and I've always

360
00:25:14,535 --> 00:25:16,725
known I will get through this.

361
00:25:17,055 --> 00:25:18,075
It will get easier.

362
00:25:18,105 --> 00:25:24,795
I will find moments of happiness
again, moments of peace, satisfaction.

363
00:25:25,095 --> 00:25:30,735
And I can say now I also
have moments of contentment.

364
00:25:31,305 --> 00:25:35,535
My personality, I don't think,
allows me a constant state.

365
00:25:36,225 --> 00:25:37,395
Filling those things.

366
00:25:37,395 --> 00:25:39,705
I dunno whether there
is any human that does.

367
00:25:40,544 --> 00:25:41,429
No, I don't think there is.

368
00:25:42,555 --> 00:25:49,785
Part of what I do is recognize and say,
Rosie, right now, this is contentment.

369
00:25:50,115 --> 00:25:54,225
This is actually contentment because
I'm always somebody that is restlessly

370
00:25:54,225 --> 00:26:00,675
looking and so I, it's a work in progress,
but to be present, to be mindful.

371
00:26:00,870 --> 00:26:06,780
To not let your worries ruminate, to
be not too immersed in the worrying

372
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:08,970
about the future and regret in the past.

373
00:26:09,210 --> 00:26:13,860
So I do feel that I'm very aware
of the importance and continued

374
00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:16,290
work that I need to continue to do.

375
00:26:16,530 --> 00:26:18,330
And so, you know, yeah.

376
00:26:18,330 --> 00:26:21,150
I think, I can't remember your question
now, Catherine, but we've got off.

377
00:26:21,885 --> 00:26:23,010
No, no, no, no.

378
00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:26,970
That's, it's interesting that when
you were talking, it made me very

379
00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:32,490
much think of what you were saying,
how we perceive that as you age.

380
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:37,860
And my grandfather was in his nineties
when he died, and I was in my early

381
00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:43,020
teens, and I recall him saying to
me, oh, all my friends are dead.

382
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:43,380
Yeah.

383
00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:47,760
And I just, it's something
that I think about quite a bit.

384
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,190
Well, you know, because I think you.

385
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,200
It's one thing that we think that is
the thing as a society that as you age,

386
00:26:56,260 --> 00:26:57,895
it's a circle of life, you know?

387
00:26:57,895 --> 00:26:58,175
Yeah.

388
00:26:58,315 --> 00:27:01,240
And, and we kind of put that
down to, you know, it's a circle

389
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,889
of life and things like that.

390
00:27:02,895 --> 00:27:04,600
But you see, I guess that's the thing.

391
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,340
I had a grandmother that lived till she
was a hundred, now she died 22 years ago.

392
00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:11,379
There weren't many people
living to a hundred back then.

393
00:27:11,379 --> 00:27:11,440
Yeah.

394
00:27:12,595 --> 00:27:15,399
And she was an inspiring woman.

395
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:18,639
She was funny, she had
a great sense of humor.

396
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:21,520
She was kind, she was motherly.

397
00:27:21,550 --> 00:27:24,940
Everybody loved my nana, everybody.

398
00:27:25,570 --> 00:27:27,670
Um, and she was a great inspiration.

399
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,430
But she, yes, she outlived everybody.

400
00:27:31,199 --> 00:27:34,439
Including, you know, one of
my cousins who died tragically

401
00:27:34,439 --> 00:27:36,689
of a brain tumor, she died.

402
00:27:36,929 --> 00:27:42,030
She outlived my mother, who died
tragically and prematurely at

403
00:27:42,030 --> 00:27:45,689
the age of 37 and left three
children under the age of six.

404
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:50,669
But she didn't dwell and she, you know,
she was a delight for people to visit.

405
00:27:50,939 --> 00:27:51,389
She was.

406
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:53,190
Still in her own home.

407
00:27:53,460 --> 00:28:01,620
So she had a really lovely older and
older age that I, I'm not sure I will have

408
00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:06,780
with my life choices and you know, like
of family members and things like that.

409
00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:15,510
But it still inspires me and has shown me
how perhaps to look at continuing living

410
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:17,850
life throughout the course of your life.

411
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:23,070
But my father, again, he's recently
just died, but still very recent for me.

412
00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:24,930
He was 92.

413
00:28:25,260 --> 00:28:25,950
And do you know what?

414
00:28:25,950 --> 00:28:30,480
He had a packed church because he'd
lived in that area all his life,

415
00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:34,920
but he'd outlived nearly all of
his friends of that generation.

416
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:40,260
One of my uncles is still alive and
you know, so there's one or two, but

417
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:43,380
one of the last living friends is.

418
00:28:44,625 --> 00:28:48,495
Of exactly the same age and they
grew up in the village together.

419
00:28:48,495 --> 00:28:52,875
This small little village went to school
with each other, all of those things.

420
00:28:53,175 --> 00:28:57,555
And David is still alive, but
he's, you know, he's certainly

421
00:28:57,915 --> 00:28:59,325
a very elderly gentleman.

422
00:28:59,325 --> 00:29:02,505
And I just feel, my dad
always had the attitude.

423
00:29:02,505 --> 00:29:07,785
He was still driving, he was still living
life up until the day he didn't, yeah,

424
00:29:07,785 --> 00:29:13,305
he still wanted to do what he could do,
visit people, all the things, you know,

425
00:29:13,365 --> 00:29:16,425
he didn't give up, he didn't accept.

426
00:29:16,545 --> 00:29:20,985
So those are the things I think
have, I feel very fortunate that

427
00:29:21,195 --> 00:29:27,795
stoicism strength, some really great
qualities that I think I draw from.

428
00:29:28,110 --> 00:29:33,899
And it's because of the family and the
community that surrounded me and those,

429
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:40,110
you know, so my link to the UK is still
so strong and conflicted 'cause I choose

430
00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:41,639
to live on the opposite side of the world.

431
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:42,510
Mm.

432
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,730
And so, you know, there is always
that conflict, but I think on the flip

433
00:29:47,730 --> 00:29:54,720
side of that, modeling of stoicism and
strength was a lack of emotional support.

434
00:29:55,020 --> 00:30:00,570
So the emotional support I have needed
as a little girl wasn't available to me.

435
00:30:00,810 --> 00:30:03,870
And it wasn't a fault of my parents.

436
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:05,820
It was through tragedy.

437
00:30:05,879 --> 00:30:06,840
My mom dying.

438
00:30:07,409 --> 00:30:12,090
And it was through an era where
children were seen, not heard,

439
00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:14,730
their emotional needs were not met.

440
00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:18,780
People coped by compartmentalization.

441
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,540
It's through more recent.

442
00:30:22,815 --> 00:30:27,855
That we understand counseling
is a benefit, that being able

443
00:30:27,855 --> 00:30:33,015
to share vulnerability, but
we still have to be cautious.

444
00:30:33,135 --> 00:30:37,065
We still worry about people's
perception and stigma of mental health.

445
00:30:37,395 --> 00:30:40,395
We still don't openly talk about grief

446
00:30:40,725 --> 00:30:41,505
or death

447
00:30:41,655 --> 00:30:42,495
or death.

448
00:30:42,650 --> 00:30:48,885
And I think many people that have to make
significant change in their life moving

449
00:30:48,885 --> 00:30:53,745
forward because of death of someone close,
no matter who that may be, you know, not

450
00:30:53,745 --> 00:30:55,365
everybody goes the distance with you.

451
00:30:55,755 --> 00:31:01,605
And that for me was something that I
struggled with enormously for at least

452
00:31:01,605 --> 00:31:07,785
the first two years I noticed everybody
that was no longer part of my life.

453
00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:12,959
And I think people exit out of
your life for varying reasons,

454
00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:15,389
but it's like abandonment.

455
00:31:15,389 --> 00:31:22,050
It was a huge abandonment for me and
yeah, really rub, you know, an abandonment

456
00:31:22,050 --> 00:31:27,300
through the loss of my mother has been
something I'm incredibly sensitive around.

457
00:31:27,659 --> 00:31:28,830
And I noticed that.

458
00:31:28,889 --> 00:31:32,010
And I realize that's for me to recognize.

459
00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:37,050
I realize that my connection to some
of those people who I considered

460
00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:39,000
friends at the time was Luke.

461
00:31:39,179 --> 00:31:43,764
And what I have understood as I reflect
back over the last 10 and 11 years.

462
00:31:44,685 --> 00:31:47,805
Those lost connections are
because I've lost Luke.

463
00:31:47,850 --> 00:31:48,139
Yeah.

464
00:31:48,139 --> 00:31:48,899
Circumstance.

465
00:31:49,125 --> 00:31:51,195
And I've had to make new connections.

466
00:31:51,345 --> 00:31:57,254
And so for me, there was a period of
time where I was very focused on my loss.

467
00:31:57,524 --> 00:32:02,565
And now I recognize the wonderful new
people who've come into my life, who

468
00:32:02,565 --> 00:32:07,155
I have relevance and connection with
because we share the same passions

469
00:32:07,245 --> 00:32:08,895
and whatever they may look like.

470
00:32:08,925 --> 00:32:12,345
There's a lot of commonality
and shared appreciation of,

471
00:32:12,645 --> 00:32:14,805
and I realized that is life.

472
00:32:15,195 --> 00:32:19,365
And there was a podium that friends can
be a reason, a season and a lifetime.

473
00:32:20,264 --> 00:32:20,325
Yeah.

474
00:32:20,325 --> 00:32:24,764
And I've realized that yes,
my situation was extreme.

475
00:32:25,004 --> 00:32:26,774
No one wanted to be me.

476
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:29,700
No one would change places with me.

477
00:32:29,850 --> 00:32:34,500
But the journey of friendship and
the complexities of family relations

478
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:37,080
are all of, we're all navigating.

479
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:42,150
And so I've realized that that
was an inevitable pathway.

480
00:32:42,540 --> 00:32:46,230
You know, I had a lot in common
with a lot of people through

481
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:48,150
Luke, because we were moms.

482
00:32:48,715 --> 00:32:49,650
Yeah, yeah.

483
00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:49,770
And

484
00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:50,850
that changed.

485
00:32:50,850 --> 00:32:55,290
I was no longer able to enjoy
the camaraderie of being

486
00:32:55,290 --> 00:32:57,300
a mom with a small child.

487
00:32:57,810 --> 00:32:59,040
It was painful.

488
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,290
And for them there is perhaps guilt
or awkwardness, but the end of the day

489
00:33:04,530 --> 00:33:06,990
people don't deliberately hurt you.

490
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,190
But I think that removal and
withdrawal, it's difficult.

491
00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:16,650
And Rosie, that's something that you
certainly speak about in the book and you

492
00:33:16,650 --> 00:33:22,320
know, how do you think that you would've
liked people during that time to perhaps

493
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,320
respond to you or just let you know?

494
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,270
Because it's not the only story that
I've heard where people have had someone

495
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:37,560
die under either public circumstances
or private, but people don't know how to

496
00:33:37,650 --> 00:33:39,540
support someone when they're grieving.

497
00:33:40,110 --> 00:33:44,340
And what would've you found would've
been helpful for someone to have?

498
00:33:45,075 --> 00:33:45,945
Said to you at that stage?

499
00:33:46,635 --> 00:33:49,605
Oh, I think there was a lot
of people helping me with my

500
00:33:49,605 --> 00:33:51,675
grieving in the tragedy of it.

501
00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:56,865
I had people from the Salvation
Army making sure I had toilet

502
00:33:56,865 --> 00:34:01,935
rolls, cooked meals, absolute,
enormous, community kindness.

503
00:34:02,385 --> 00:34:04,665
I had people coming from everywhere.

504
00:34:05,475 --> 00:34:07,185
I had so many flowers.

505
00:34:07,455 --> 00:34:12,405
So many flowers for months that
I couldn't fit them in the house.

506
00:34:12,405 --> 00:34:13,605
They were down the drive.

507
00:34:13,605 --> 00:34:15,014
They were around my garden.

508
00:34:15,885 --> 00:34:21,824
I had letters and cards and gifts
sent to me from across Australia.

509
00:34:22,290 --> 00:34:28,620
Elderly men and women, young people
that went on for months, absolutely

510
00:34:28,830 --> 00:34:33,359
hundreds of pieces of correspondence,
not knowing where to send them to.

511
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,170
Just Rosy Tire, cricket
Club, any of those things.

512
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:42,029
You know, my house was full of
people coming together in their pain

513
00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:48,779
and shock and disbelief and school
communities that we were connecting to.

514
00:34:48,779 --> 00:34:53,370
Everything that we were connected
into were so much part of that.

515
00:34:54,210 --> 00:35:00,390
And it was an incredible experience
that I think shows the best of humanity.

516
00:35:00,779 --> 00:35:02,460
But the journey is a long one.

517
00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:09,509
Mm. And unfortunately, it is something
to do with yourself in recognizing

518
00:35:09,810 --> 00:35:14,400
the hole and the void that you are
left with is too big for anyone to

519
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,650
fill, but it's painful when you see.

520
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:20,910
People moving on in their life and
the anger that you can sometimes

521
00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:24,899
feel is your anger, but they're not
doing anything wrong because they

522
00:35:24,899 --> 00:35:28,080
still feel very sad, very sorry.

523
00:35:28,529 --> 00:35:30,899
They still feel those things.

524
00:35:31,049 --> 00:35:36,629
But I realize that one of my neighbors,
and she said, every night I look out at

525
00:35:36,629 --> 00:35:42,240
the moon and I think of, look, I will
always remember him, Rosie, and I thought,

526
00:35:42,779 --> 00:35:48,000
you see Rosie, people might not tell
you every day, but in their own way, at

527
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,310
particular moments, no matter what they
look like, they will always remember him.

528
00:35:54,525 --> 00:36:00,015
And so, you know, because you don't
see them joining you for a fundraiser

529
00:36:00,015 --> 00:36:05,295
or knocking on your door every five
minutes or you know, including you

530
00:36:05,295 --> 00:36:09,735
in things that you perhaps had hoped
that you might get included in.

531
00:36:09,735 --> 00:36:16,065
And feeling left out, these are a
lot of your own very real feelings.

532
00:36:16,425 --> 00:36:22,845
But I think it was for me to recognize
that no one out of, for Luke's

533
00:36:22,935 --> 00:36:28,785
circle of friends, all those kids
and their parents and the community

534
00:36:28,845 --> 00:36:33,675
and large will ever forget what
happened to Luke and who Luke was.

535
00:36:34,635 --> 00:36:39,765
And even now there will be somebody
at some point that will, I will bump

536
00:36:39,765 --> 00:36:45,285
into that will remind me that child
was at school at the same time as Luke.

537
00:36:45,285 --> 00:36:48,795
And they, you know, so
for quite a long time.

538
00:36:49,485 --> 00:36:54,885
I was really desperate to have evidence
that Luke had not been forgotten,

539
00:36:55,635 --> 00:37:04,785
and it has taken some time to realize
that my life and how I rebuild my

540
00:37:04,785 --> 00:37:07,275
life is a journey only I can take.

541
00:37:07,785 --> 00:37:10,065
And yes, I need to know that I'm loved.

542
00:37:10,275 --> 00:37:12,555
I need to know that I'm supported.

543
00:37:13,275 --> 00:37:19,815
I would hate to think that I had to do
this alone, but I realized that those

544
00:37:20,445 --> 00:37:25,275
genuine lifetime friends that have
always been there, and I've got several

545
00:37:25,275 --> 00:37:29,445
in the UK that I grew up with or went
to school with, that I've continued

546
00:37:29,445 --> 00:37:31,095
to have strong friendships with.

547
00:37:31,095 --> 00:37:36,345
Even now, I've got a great family,
even though they live in the uk,

548
00:37:37,005 --> 00:37:44,805
who I know no matter what I need in
support, I. Will always be there for me.

549
00:37:45,015 --> 00:37:51,285
They may not understand my emotions at
times, but I know unequivocally they will

550
00:37:51,285 --> 00:37:57,225
never see me in trouble without stepping
in to help in whatever way they can.

551
00:37:58,064 --> 00:38:03,915
And I think friendships can be more
tenuous and I think those who have the

552
00:38:03,915 --> 00:38:10,665
capacity and emotional intelligence
can have that ability to recognize

553
00:38:10,665 --> 00:38:15,165
that your response to something
is not directly personal to them.

554
00:38:15,464 --> 00:38:17,415
And you really appreciate that.

555
00:38:17,415 --> 00:38:19,544
That deepens and
strengthens your friendship.

556
00:38:19,860 --> 00:38:22,320
And you want to be that friend for them.

557
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,030
And what I don't like is when people
shield me and think, don't let Rosie know

558
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,790
because they think it might upset me.

559
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,430
It really is one of the worst
things you can do, you know?

560
00:38:33,075 --> 00:38:36,360
And I think that's largely
being trauma affected as well.

561
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:37,410
I need to know.

562
00:38:37,410 --> 00:38:40,530
Mm. I don't want people to be
frightened of upsetting me.

563
00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:41,730
I don't want the truth.

564
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:44,100
I want blunt honesty.

565
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,230
Don't skirt around.

566
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:51,690
And what I did need, coming back to your
question, which is a very difficult thing

567
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:57,960
for anyone to do, is actually let me know
when I've hurt their feelings to actually

568
00:38:58,620 --> 00:39:02,130
say to me, Rosie, that has really hurt me.

569
00:39:02,610 --> 00:39:07,740
Or I don't know whether you realize
how that is making people feel.

570
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:12,750
And to be honest enough, because
sometimes through your pain, you don't

571
00:39:12,750 --> 00:39:14,550
realize you're hurting other people.

572
00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:19,740
And it's not what you set out to do,
but you feel like the pain that you have

573
00:39:19,740 --> 00:39:23,040
inside is visible to those on the outside.

574
00:39:23,399 --> 00:39:31,560
And I think as we are able to forgive,
make allowances and not respond

575
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,870
and react, but I think there is a
time also where that may need to be

576
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:42,029
acknowledged that there is something
that actually needs to be recognized.

577
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:48,089
And what I think is very difficult
is for people to be honest and they

578
00:39:48,089 --> 00:39:52,020
remove themselves because either
they see that as a personal attack

579
00:39:52,049 --> 00:39:56,549
on them, that they feel hurt by and.

580
00:39:56,970 --> 00:40:03,180
That the intensity of the grief is
triggering their own stuff and is

581
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:07,440
frightening to them, or it's intimidating
to them, or it's overwhelming them.

582
00:40:07,799 --> 00:40:12,480
And quite frankly, some people
don't need that in their lives.

583
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:14,670
They may be going through
a vulnerable time.

584
00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:19,529
They may have their own life pressures,
they may be having their own relationship

585
00:40:19,529 --> 00:40:24,000
breakdowns, and they may need to put
their own boundaries in place because

586
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,400
right then and there and for a period
of time, they can't be available to you.

587
00:40:30,089 --> 00:40:33,330
But I think the trouble is,
Catherine, people aren't able

588
00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:34,859
to feel they can be honest.

589
00:40:35,370 --> 00:40:35,400
Mm.

590
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:38,790
Because they feel like that is
perhaps gonna be too hurtful.

591
00:40:39,089 --> 00:40:42,839
And so some of those people have
come back into my life and I've been

592
00:40:42,839 --> 00:40:48,089
able to understand through my own
reflections, and without talking too

593
00:40:48,089 --> 00:40:51,870
deeply to these people, that they
were going through their own stuff.

594
00:40:52,215 --> 00:40:56,535
And they were, but their exit out of
my life and the door that they shut

595
00:40:56,745 --> 00:41:00,915
was really hurtful at the time because
I didn't know what I'd done wrong,

596
00:41:01,155 --> 00:41:02,895
but I sensed there was something.

597
00:41:03,255 --> 00:41:07,155
And so now that friendship, those
friendships are in, but that

598
00:41:07,155 --> 00:41:09,045
degree of trust is no longer there.

599
00:41:09,645 --> 00:41:09,675
Mm.

600
00:41:09,795 --> 00:41:15,375
But it's found a friendship that
is comfortable and kind and.

601
00:41:15,870 --> 00:41:16,470
Enough.

602
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:23,490
So I think it's often we are either to
actually be able to be really honest.

603
00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:24,840
It's not easy.

604
00:41:25,260 --> 00:41:29,880
And I think we all struggle with
that, whether we don't want to be

605
00:41:30,090 --> 00:41:35,400
confronted, whether we fear the
response of that person, whether it's

606
00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:40,680
you expect them to be angry or burst
into tears and be devastatingly sad.

607
00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:46,620
And I feel like we are very closed
to allowing people to be angry.

608
00:41:47,850 --> 00:41:51,210
And it's a very difficult 'cause.

609
00:41:51,210 --> 00:41:57,570
Some of us have been, you know, anger
is a response that we kind of have

610
00:41:57,570 --> 00:42:00,270
perhaps comes from our childhood as well.

611
00:42:00,630 --> 00:42:00,990
You know, I

612
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:07,410
think it also has a bit to do with
that people don't really understand

613
00:42:07,830 --> 00:42:13,440
grief and what shape and form grief can
come in and it can be ugly at times.

614
00:42:13,529 --> 00:42:15,540
I think that's a huge point.

615
00:42:15,540 --> 00:42:18,720
We don't, but I think
it's all human emotion.

616
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:21,210
You know, we are
uncomfortable with sadness.

617
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,830
We're uncomfortable with genuine
loss because if it's a feeling of

618
00:42:25,830 --> 00:42:30,960
disappointment, sadness, you know,
we are too readily misinterpreting

619
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,150
that as something abnormal.

620
00:42:33,660 --> 00:42:40,590
And, you know, depression can be abnormal,
you know, in, in its way of lingering.

621
00:42:40,620 --> 00:42:42,690
And we can be incredibly vulnerable to it.

622
00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:44,310
And there's lots of complexities around.

623
00:42:44,310 --> 00:42:49,410
Depression will not minimize, but
it's also something that's telling us

624
00:42:49,950 --> 00:42:52,290
that we need to address in our lives.

625
00:42:53,069 --> 00:42:57,839
And I. I think those courageous
steps about, well, courageous.

626
00:42:58,350 --> 00:43:02,520
It is courageous really to kind of
go deep within and say, what is going

627
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:08,759
on in my life that is making me, you
know, anxious or sad or, you know, all

628
00:43:08,759 --> 00:43:14,904
of these things because the changes we
need to perhaps look at are overwhelming

629
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:20,850
or we're unsure, or we are just
uncomfortable and we don't wanna go there.

630
00:43:21,210 --> 00:43:26,520
So for me, I do feel that we don't
understand grief and I do feel that we

631
00:43:26,580 --> 00:43:30,000
want people to be coping rather than not.

632
00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:36,420
And also within a, an expected timeline,
just an, there's an, there's a perceived

633
00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:38,009
timeline of how long that should go.

634
00:43:38,009 --> 00:43:38,069
Yeah.

635
00:43:38,549 --> 00:43:45,240
So I can still remember one of my dearest
fans who I reacted angrily about something

636
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:47,520
that happened several months later.

637
00:43:47,549 --> 00:43:50,520
It was in the first 12 months, it
was nine months later and it was

638
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,740
approaching Luke's coronial inquest.

639
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:58,680
And I had recently had bunion surgery,
so I was kind of incapacitated and was

640
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,210
crutch bound and all of these things.

641
00:44:00,210 --> 00:44:04,529
Anyway, either way, there was something
that happened and I was really angry.

642
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,880
And there was another situation
where I was really angry when I

643
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,799
was on holiday with relatives.

644
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:13,410
And again, it was a traumatic
response to something.

645
00:44:13,740 --> 00:44:19,529
And each of those people that are
related to me, either you know, genuine

646
00:44:19,529 --> 00:44:27,720
relationships or really like lifetime
friends, each of them had said she should.

647
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,000
Be over it by now or her behavior,
which is the same thing really.

648
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:33,540
Yeah.

649
00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:37,380
This kind of response and
behavior should be over it by now.

650
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:41,430
And you know, that was within
the first 12 months of a child

651
00:44:41,610 --> 00:44:43,440
being murdered in front of you.

652
00:44:43,890 --> 00:44:45,720
You know, like what are you thinking?

653
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:52,650
How could you possibly think that
my emotional wellbeing was gonna

654
00:44:52,650 --> 00:44:55,320
be recovered by a particular time?

655
00:44:55,830 --> 00:44:56,730
And so, yeah.

656
00:44:56,790 --> 00:45:02,460
And I think the very energy that I
draw from that helps me survive is

657
00:45:02,460 --> 00:45:09,060
the very energy that bursts out when
not properly channeled or not, I dunno

658
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:14,730
about properly, because I think it's the
shame that I've sit with through being.

659
00:45:15,210 --> 00:45:17,430
Honestly emotional.

660
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:21,960
So, you know, you, you suppress
a lot, but I think we all do.

661
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,850
There is a way to project yourself.

662
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,120
So I think, you know, it's understandable
in the moment of absolute tragedy

663
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:38,430
that we are broken and distraught
and deeply saddened and yeah, so

664
00:45:38,430 --> 00:45:42,840
I think it takes a lot of people
having their own self-reflection,

665
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,230
self-awareness, and self responsibility.

666
00:45:46,590 --> 00:45:48,210
And so a lot of us don't.

667
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:55,680
I think I try to, it may be delayed
at times where I reflect more later

668
00:45:56,100 --> 00:46:00,420
and then see how that may have
impacted on somebody or how I could

669
00:46:00,420 --> 00:46:04,140
have responded better or differently
and had a different outcome and a

670
00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:07,110
better, better, you know, experience.

671
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:11,670
And I think that's what you try to do, and
when I say it's a journey of learning, is

672
00:46:12,029 --> 00:46:14,190
you're seeking through wisdom and insight.

673
00:46:14,819 --> 00:46:19,259
To continually be a better
human and I will never be

674
00:46:19,259 --> 00:46:21,779
the perfect human I wanna be.

675
00:46:22,290 --> 00:46:25,830
And I look at some of my
friends whose qualities and

676
00:46:25,830 --> 00:46:29,040
personalities I admire so much.

677
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,200
And they're different to me.

678
00:46:31,799 --> 00:46:37,410
And I think in the same way that they
see me and they admire me in ways

679
00:46:37,410 --> 00:46:40,859
that I don't see in myself, you know?

680
00:46:40,859 --> 00:46:45,480
So I think friendship is tested,
relationships are tested, family

681
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,790
relationships and dynamics are tested.

682
00:46:48,359 --> 00:46:54,569
And yeah, talking about death, people will
say, oh, they'll try, people will try.

683
00:46:54,569 --> 00:46:59,130
And even through the experience of my
dad dying to soften it, to come up with

684
00:46:59,130 --> 00:47:05,910
some kind of more palatable language,
or you just soften it and you go, well,

685
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:08,580
actually sometimes it is as it is.

686
00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:11,130
And so how do you respond to somebody?

687
00:47:11,135 --> 00:47:14,430
And, and I remember somebody saying
to me at the very time, years

688
00:47:14,430 --> 00:47:16,950
ago, I just dunno what to say.

689
00:47:17,790 --> 00:47:19,860
And I say, isn't that the perfect thing?

690
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:19,920
Yeah.

691
00:47:20,490 --> 00:47:21,960
I dunno what to say.

692
00:47:22,350 --> 00:47:25,290
I just, I'm just so sorry.

693
00:47:25,860 --> 00:47:27,660
Or I'm just here for you.

694
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,820
And so sometimes there are no words,
sometimes there isn't anything to say,

695
00:47:33,540 --> 00:47:37,110
but the very fact that you've shown up,
the very fact that you keep weathering

696
00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:43,230
the storm, and that's the thing for me
is all the activity that happened at

697
00:47:43,230 --> 00:47:48,930
the time of Luke's murder, but he has
a cricket match that's in honor of him

698
00:47:48,990 --> 00:47:54,930
each year in that the Victorian police
have a team and so they do this match.

699
00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:56,160
You're in honor of Luke.

700
00:47:56,310 --> 00:48:03,570
And I've always feel conflicted because I
see how, you know, how thoughtful that is.

701
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:08,850
Of the police and the local cricket club
wanting to do something in memory of Luke.

702
00:48:09,150 --> 00:48:11,490
Not just Luke, but for family violence.

703
00:48:12,029 --> 00:48:16,230
But I'm always anxious and nervous
about whether anyone will turn up

704
00:48:17,069 --> 00:48:22,589
and sometimes the people that I had
thought would just don't, and the

705
00:48:22,589 --> 00:48:26,190
people that I'm don't expect do.

706
00:48:26,730 --> 00:48:32,339
And so I see that as just a reflection
of they still remember Luke in their own

707
00:48:32,339 --> 00:48:36,210
private way, and he'll always be happy.

708
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:39,690
You know, there'll always be a sadness in
their heart about what happened to him.

709
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:41,340
And you won't be forgotten.

710
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:48,300
So life keeps going on as you question
your friendships and sometimes you just

711
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:50,700
have to accept they've run that course.

712
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:55,290
It's interesting what you were just
saying there, Rosie, in relation to

713
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,080
what you'd said at one stage about
what people can say to you and just

714
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,730
sort of saying, I dunno what to say.

715
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,180
I recall you saying that, and
I think it may have been at

716
00:49:06,180 --> 00:49:09,000
the So Writers Festival and.

717
00:49:11,355 --> 00:49:13,335
Said to other people since Not really.

718
00:49:13,335 --> 00:49:16,455
The best thing you can say
is, I don't know what to say.

719
00:49:16,725 --> 00:49:20,925
Yeah, because it's bloody better than
any cliche you can come up with or any

720
00:49:20,925 --> 00:49:26,775
really bad way of trying to soften the
situation when unfortunately you can't.

721
00:49:27,705 --> 00:49:28,200
You know, you

722
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:28,480
can't.

723
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:36,255
And it's, and also if someone tears
up or someone breaks down, it's okay.

724
00:49:37,005 --> 00:49:40,305
You know, people are frightened to
death of upsetting you and that.

725
00:49:41,220 --> 00:49:47,730
You know that pity is wearing and it's
reminds you all the time that something

726
00:49:47,730 --> 00:49:54,240
is wrong with you and your situation
is pitiful and nobody wants to be you.

727
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,170
And it's, you know, my journey has
been quite a weird one to navigate

728
00:49:58,319 --> 00:50:03,029
on, many levels to be admired, and yet
no one wants to be in your situation.

729
00:50:03,029 --> 00:50:07,560
But after such a period of time, I've
navigated it and I'm okay with where I

730
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:13,259
am and how it's turned out, but it's not
always easy because I, you know, I fear

731
00:50:13,259 --> 00:50:19,170
people's judgment and I'm very conscious
when I walk my dogs or I'm out locally,

732
00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:21,180
you know that I want to be someone that.

733
00:50:21,765 --> 00:50:24,465
Is projecting myself as I normally would.

734
00:50:24,825 --> 00:50:27,705
I'm mindful about not
being rude to people.

735
00:50:27,705 --> 00:50:31,455
I don't want to be rude somebody in
a supermarket because I'm impatient

736
00:50:31,455 --> 00:50:33,345
in being in the queue, whatever.

737
00:50:33,765 --> 00:50:37,725
Because I realize just
how you can affect people.

738
00:50:37,935 --> 00:50:42,770
And you know, I can be that harsh
person if I'm under pressure and I'm

739
00:50:42,970 --> 00:50:48,045
stressed, I can be very direct and I
realize that's not who I like to be.

740
00:50:48,765 --> 00:50:51,015
And there are times where
you need to be that.

741
00:50:51,915 --> 00:50:57,105
But I, I guess because I'm now in
a more balanced state of being, you

742
00:50:57,105 --> 00:51:00,015
know, I can hold myself in check.

743
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:07,770
If I'm irritated or impatient, and I
try to ensure that I have strategies

744
00:51:07,770 --> 00:51:12,150
in place to be more that person than
the person that comes out of a box.

745
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:18,120
I don't want be seen as So
isn't that life and who we are.

746
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:22,710
We have our strong points and are
good points, and we have the other

747
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:26,340
side of ourselves no matter what that
looks like, that are challenging.

748
00:51:26,490 --> 00:51:30,450
And we seen in others what we
perhaps lack in ourselves or

749
00:51:30,450 --> 00:51:31,950
feel that we lack in ourselves.

750
00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:35,970
Whether that's extroversion
or articulation or, you know,

751
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:40,350
I just really admire people
who are calm and composed and

752
00:51:41,315 --> 00:51:42,085
even keeled.

753
00:51:42,085 --> 00:51:42,325
Yeah.

754
00:51:42,385 --> 00:51:42,605
And

755
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:43,230
yes.

756
00:51:43,620 --> 00:51:44,130
Oh gosh.

757
00:51:44,130 --> 00:51:46,560
I would give space to be that person.

758
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:46,620
Yeah.

759
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:49,440
And I, and also people would, you know.

760
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,080
Fantastic writing skills.

761
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,080
I mean, mine are good enough, but
you know, that's not my strength.

762
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,830
You've done so much self-analysis, Rosie.

763
00:51:58,890 --> 00:51:59,040
It's

764
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,120
exhausting, isn't it?

765
00:52:00,210 --> 00:52:02,760
Just typing in my shoes.

766
00:52:03,305 --> 00:52:05,070
It's exhausting, but But you

767
00:52:05,070 --> 00:52:06,030
really have, yeah.

768
00:52:06,420 --> 00:52:10,380
Like, you know, and so much personal
growth and understanding, and most

769
00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:16,650
people never get to actually be able
to have or develop the hindsight that

770
00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:18,450
you've been able to develop through.

771
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:23,040
Do you think the process of writing
and storytelling has helped with

772
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,340
that?

773
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:28,110
Oh, I am sure it has, but also, you
know, I'm in my sixties and how many

774
00:52:28,110 --> 00:52:34,890
people do we listen to who are older when
they have so much life experience and

775
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:39,270
stories to share and tell and experiences
of life that we can learn from.

776
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:39,960
Mm-hmm.

777
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,630
How dismissive are we
in our young arrogance?

778
00:52:43,365 --> 00:52:48,045
And I feel so fortunate that I am
seen as somebody that's got wisdom

779
00:52:48,045 --> 00:52:53,595
to share and insight to be shared
and experience to learn from because

780
00:52:53,595 --> 00:52:57,765
I, that's how I keep learning, you
know, about myself from others.

781
00:52:58,275 --> 00:53:02,235
You know, I feel very fortunate that
even though I'm a woman in my sixties,

782
00:53:02,265 --> 00:53:07,665
I still have a voice and I don't
expect that to change anytime soon.

783
00:53:08,265 --> 00:53:10,395
And I wouldn't want it to Rosie you.

784
00:53:10,395 --> 00:53:10,905
You've, we've gotta

785
00:53:10,905 --> 00:53:14,505
keep that, you know, the
ageism is alive and well.

786
00:53:14,625 --> 00:53:20,505
And I do think we do have a lot to learn
from people who've seen a lot, experienced

787
00:53:20,505 --> 00:53:24,435
a lot, because how else do we really
truly understand unless we've walked

788
00:53:24,435 --> 00:53:27,405
in those shoes, been on that journey?

789
00:53:27,855 --> 00:53:32,235
And as different as it is for each of
us, not one of us goes through life

790
00:53:32,265 --> 00:53:35,865
without loss, without pain, without grief.

791
00:53:37,755 --> 00:53:43,365
I love the fact that you have your
close circle of friends and it seems

792
00:53:43,365 --> 00:53:47,595
to be some of the self care that you
did for yourself over the last few

793
00:53:47,595 --> 00:53:52,005
years has been going on walks with
those wonderful friends of yours.

794
00:53:52,305 --> 00:53:56,145
Tell me what other self-care
activities or what are the sort

795
00:53:56,145 --> 00:53:59,145
of things that you do for yourself
with everything you've been through?

796
00:53:59,325 --> 00:54:03,915
Look, I think, again, everybody's
different, but I grew up on a farm when

797
00:54:03,915 --> 00:54:11,295
I was a little girl and lost my mom, and
I've always known being that little girl.

798
00:54:11,445 --> 00:54:16,485
I have wanted animals to
nurture it in my life and.

799
00:54:16,545 --> 00:54:20,055
It started off when I was little,
having lots of rabbits that

800
00:54:20,055 --> 00:54:21,765
kept reading quite outta control

801
00:54:22,305 --> 00:54:23,310
as rabbits do, as

802
00:54:23,315 --> 00:54:24,195
rabbits tend to do.

803
00:54:24,195 --> 00:54:29,775
Now I have many of those in my paddock
and because they're actually in plagued

804
00:54:29,775 --> 00:54:33,975
proportions here in Australia, but
certainly I don't need any as pets.

805
00:54:34,305 --> 00:54:40,395
But dogs have always been a real
friend, companion family to me,

806
00:54:40,635 --> 00:54:43,215
so they get me up every day.

807
00:54:43,485 --> 00:54:46,545
Walking them every day gives me joy.

808
00:54:46,935 --> 00:54:50,505
My connections are now no
longer as a mother of a child,

809
00:54:50,805 --> 00:54:52,545
but they're mother of dogs.

810
00:54:52,605 --> 00:54:56,115
As we have doggy conversations
with the fellow dog walkers

811
00:54:56,115 --> 00:54:58,335
that you see around and about.

812
00:54:58,905 --> 00:55:05,325
I also have live on property and I
have perhaps made sure that I have

813
00:55:05,325 --> 00:55:08,385
the animals my father would never
let me have when I did live on the

814
00:55:08,385 --> 00:55:11,175
farm, and that is I have two donkeys.

815
00:55:11,355 --> 00:55:12,105
I have a goat.

816
00:55:12,780 --> 00:55:18,120
And recently my purchase
was two young heifers.

817
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,130
Oh, Dougal and Dexter.

818
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:25,140
I have not had cows before, so
that's a new experience for me.

819
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:30,930
But I guess what you would say is I've
always had a menagerie of animals and

820
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,900
sometimes I wonder why, because there's
lots of extra work and cost associated,

821
00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:39,870
but that's just part of my every day.

822
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:43,500
But the, the thing that, you know,
friends are really important to me.

823
00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:45,330
I love going to the theater.

824
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:54,030
I love food, a nice wine and social
interaction and engagement, but I

825
00:55:54,030 --> 00:55:56,400
also like my own space, so I do need.

826
00:55:56,850 --> 00:55:57,899
That balance.

827
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:03,390
So I work as hard as I can because
I am that single person to generate

828
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:09,479
opportunities to go out and be social
because if I don't, I could spend

829
00:56:09,629 --> 00:56:12,180
a lot of my own time on my own.

830
00:56:12,779 --> 00:56:20,069
And as much as I like that, I do feel
that it can be a little detrimental.

831
00:56:20,220 --> 00:56:24,660
If you are feeling a little bit
vulnerable or sensitive, you can easily

832
00:56:24,660 --> 00:56:29,160
slip into a lot of rum ruminating
and all that self-talk that goes on.

833
00:56:29,669 --> 00:56:35,100
So I try to keep connected with
people doing things I enjoy, make me

834
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:39,720
laugh, make me cry, make me happy.

835
00:56:40,140 --> 00:56:43,020
But this is always so important, I think,
to have something to look forward to.

836
00:56:43,770 --> 00:56:51,120
And I will be going to Malta in June
to one of my old school friends.

837
00:56:51,944 --> 00:56:53,444
Daughter's wedding.

838
00:56:54,075 --> 00:56:54,165
Oh, wow.

839
00:56:54,435 --> 00:56:57,795
So I'll be going there to catch
up with old school friends.

840
00:56:58,305 --> 00:57:01,785
Otherwise, I perhaps wouldn't
visit Malta potentially.

841
00:57:02,234 --> 00:57:05,745
So I travel as I can, as I can afford to.

842
00:57:06,134 --> 00:57:13,154
And of more recent years, I've tried to
do trips that are trekking holidays and,

843
00:57:13,245 --> 00:57:17,984
you know, that's been in the UK so I can
visit family and friends at the same time.

844
00:57:18,404 --> 00:57:24,825
But I have, you know, I've been to
Portugal, Japan, Scotland, you know,

845
00:57:24,830 --> 00:57:29,595
I've, I've done a lot of walking holidays,
which are physically challenging.

846
00:57:30,134 --> 00:57:34,815
And I think that physical challenge
in amazing, beautiful scenery

847
00:57:35,115 --> 00:57:37,995
has been a significant shift.

848
00:57:38,325 --> 00:57:43,455
My recovery journey, you know, it
is, it was incredibly difficult to

849
00:57:43,515 --> 00:57:49,575
push through some really challenging
scenery physically, and that physical

850
00:57:49,575 --> 00:57:54,045
challenge was enough, I think for
you to kind of draw safely from

851
00:57:54,705 --> 00:57:54,735
MM,

852
00:57:54,795 --> 00:57:58,455
to give you the will to continue
to keep moving and getting better.

853
00:57:58,905 --> 00:58:02,625
So I have always had an interest
in walking and I went trekking

854
00:58:02,625 --> 00:58:04,335
in Nepal before I had Luke.

855
00:58:04,605 --> 00:58:07,635
But obviously having a small child,
there's a lot of things you can

856
00:58:07,635 --> 00:58:11,415
no longer afford to do or have the
time to do or the opportunity to do.

857
00:58:12,045 --> 00:58:20,025
So I continue to seek adventure if
I can and what can that look like?

858
00:58:20,025 --> 00:58:24,255
I'm not as ambitious and as risk taken
as I was with my younger years, I

859
00:58:24,255 --> 00:58:29,655
will say, but I still have an appetite
to continue to explore and do other

860
00:58:30,015 --> 00:58:31,245
walking holidays into the future.

861
00:58:32,175 --> 00:58:36,435
And Rosie, when we are looking forward,
what does the next say, 12 months.

862
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:39,149
Three years, five years look like for you?

863
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:43,680
You know, I've possibly always been
that person that goes along not knowing.

864
00:58:44,220 --> 00:58:49,410
And I think what I has actually
this morning before we spoke, I was

865
00:58:49,410 --> 00:58:54,689
just thinking that I'm started this
year with greater anticipation.

866
00:58:55,050 --> 00:58:56,310
Than I did last year.

867
00:58:56,310 --> 00:59:02,130
Last year I experienced a lot of
really positive things, but was really

868
00:59:02,130 --> 00:59:06,690
nervous about the year ahead, what
income I was going to generate to

869
00:59:06,690 --> 00:59:11,880
pay my bills and financial security
and superannuation contributions.

870
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,320
So I, I've kind of looked at
what do I need to put in place

871
00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:18,630
to have more financial security?

872
00:59:19,230 --> 00:59:22,560
And so I feel that I
also did that last year.

873
00:59:22,635 --> 00:59:26,220
I mean, this year I think there's
an anticipation now because just

874
00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:30,630
the start of the year, this point
or kind of it was, it's kind of

875
00:59:31,110 --> 00:59:32,280
motoring along a bit, isn't it?

876
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:39,000
I'm feeling there is more ahead of me that
I would like to be open to explore and

877
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:47,490
not let my self-doubt and own self-imposed
limitations stop me or prevent me from.

878
00:59:47,895 --> 00:59:49,515
Working out what that looks like.

879
00:59:49,515 --> 00:59:54,404
And so I feel that is this
year is stepping back into and

880
00:59:54,404 --> 00:59:58,395
doing, yeah, stepping back step.

881
00:59:58,424 --> 01:00:02,654
You know how I said earlier, you
know, I, all my changes I pushed

882
01:00:02,654 --> 01:00:04,455
through because of self-doubt.

883
01:00:04,785 --> 01:00:04,995
Well,

884
01:00:04,995 --> 01:00:09,495
I think last year was me really
consolidating and taking stock

885
01:00:09,734 --> 01:00:12,375
and safely extending myself.

886
01:00:12,464 --> 01:00:16,845
And I think I'm ready to perhaps
look at, well, maybe there's more,

887
01:00:17,085 --> 01:00:19,935
but what that more looks like will
be a little bit more of the same.

888
01:00:19,964 --> 01:00:23,055
But I think there is something
that I can't quite see yet

889
01:00:23,595 --> 01:00:25,395
that I will be exploring.

890
01:00:25,754 --> 01:00:27,944
That doesn't give you a very
straight answer, does it?

891
01:00:28,515 --> 01:00:29,535
No, but I love it.

892
01:00:29,535 --> 01:00:33,165
I love the fact that you
recognize that there is.

893
01:00:35,654 --> 01:00:38,895
Opportunities, but you're
looking at them with curiosity

894
01:00:39,345 --> 01:00:40,875
and you're willing to kind of

895
01:00:41,325 --> 01:00:41,625
Yeah.

896
01:00:41,625 --> 01:00:46,035
You know, and I think part of that was the
reflection on a dream I had last night.

897
01:00:46,545 --> 01:00:50,085
I don't always remember my dreams,
but there was something that

898
01:00:50,085 --> 01:00:54,375
I just have a little bit of a
memory of, and that was, I was.

899
01:00:55,050 --> 01:00:56,430
Running and jumping.

900
01:00:56,550 --> 01:00:59,730
And I think it was part of walking,
because sometimes you have to

901
01:00:59,730 --> 01:01:04,350
jump across a creek or kind of
maneuver across stepping stones.

902
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,790
But there was a lightness and a, it
was jumping and there was running.

903
01:01:08,940 --> 01:01:14,700
And sometimes my dreams have been in the
past where something slowed me down to the

904
01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:18,090
point where I, I'm in like unable to run.

905
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:23,130
I'm so slow, you know, if I try to
run, I just forgotten how to do it.

906
01:01:23,730 --> 01:01:28,500
So I think that's a reflection again,
of feeling stuck of not being able

907
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:32,490
to move because you, you know, all
of those things we're talking about.

908
01:01:32,490 --> 01:01:37,230
So I think that was what my reflection
was, is interpreting I'm light.

909
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:45,270
I'm seeing that, you know, there is
energy perhaps in me for what's ahead.

910
01:01:45,690 --> 01:01:47,700
So I think, you know, I'm no brainer.

911
01:01:47,759 --> 01:01:51,839
I'm no dream expert, but
I'm gonna go with that.

912
01:01:52,259 --> 01:01:55,529
I think you should just run with that,
Rosie, and I think that's a beautiful

913
01:01:55,529 --> 01:02:01,740
way to know that you know, there is
only one Rosie Batty and you know, you.

914
01:02:02,924 --> 01:02:05,384
Certainly good enough for us, Rosie.

915
01:02:05,384 --> 01:02:05,984
That's for sure.

916
01:02:06,584 --> 01:02:07,964
You don't need to be anyone else.

917
01:02:07,964 --> 01:02:12,075
Just keep being yourself and I'm
so happy to hear that you have

918
01:02:12,254 --> 01:02:16,214
energy that is coming from your
dreams and curiosity for the future.

919
01:02:16,214 --> 01:02:18,314
So I can't wait to see what that involves.

920
01:02:18,705 --> 01:02:22,455
And so how I applied that burst
of energy, Catherine, is I am

921
01:02:22,694 --> 01:02:24,705
cleaning with a vengeance right now.

922
01:02:24,705 --> 01:02:27,944
So that's just a little household secret.

923
01:02:27,944 --> 01:02:29,234
I've been cob webbing.

924
01:02:29,234 --> 01:02:33,555
I've been looking at nooks and
crannies and corners and going, gosh.

925
01:02:34,064 --> 01:02:34,334
Yeah.

926
01:02:34,334 --> 01:02:39,254
So there's a new renewed energy
behind my house cleaning right now.

927
01:02:39,254 --> 01:02:42,044
So that's how currently challenging it.

928
01:02:43,305 --> 01:02:44,294
Yeah, that's good to hear.

929
01:02:44,294 --> 01:02:44,595
You know.

930
01:02:45,254 --> 01:02:48,134
Well, I can't thank you enough
for being with us today, Rosie.

931
01:02:48,134 --> 01:02:49,455
I really appreciate your time.

932
01:02:49,665 --> 01:02:50,384
Thank you, Catherine.

933
01:02:50,384 --> 01:02:51,404
I've really enjoyed it.

934
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:57,520
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,

935
01:02:57,820 --> 01:02:59,560
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936
01:03:00,310 --> 01:03:04,600
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937
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,400
heard, we'd love for you to let us know.

938
01:03:06,670 --> 01:03:10,270
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939
01:03:10,270 --> 01:03:12,040
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940
01:03:12,190 --> 01:03:16,360
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941
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,100
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942
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:19,720
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943
01:03:19,870 --> 01:03:20,860
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944
01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:24,790
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945
01:03:24,790 --> 01:03:30,970
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