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Yeah, you just never realize the
world could sometimes be so cruel.

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And how can little children,
you know, little children are

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not meant to suffer Catherine.

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And sometimes I felt that the world,
they know what's going on over here.

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These little kids are just
as precious as children with

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Australian passports, you know?

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So you just realize how
precious life in is.

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You have an opportunity
to fix a little kid up.

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That's one little child you've saved.

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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead.

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A podcast encouraging open conversations
about dying and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to life
because while you may not be ready to die.

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At least you can be prepared.

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Don't be caught dead.

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Acknowledges the lands of the
Kulin Nations and recognizes their

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connection to land, sea, and community.

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We pay our respects to their elders
past, present, and emerging, and

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extend that respect to all Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander and First

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Nation peoples around the globe.

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Today I'm speaking with Moira Kelly.

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Moira Kelly is a celebrated Australian
humanitarian who helped bring co-joined

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twins, Krishna and Trishna from Bangladesh
to Melbourne for their separation surgery.

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In 2009, when teenager Krishna went
into end stage kidney failure during the

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COVID Pandemic in 2021, Moira became a
living donor for her donating her kidney.

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Krishna's life has again been
transformed as a result of Moira's gift.

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Thank you so much for
being with us today, Moira.

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Lovely to be here, Catherine.

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Thank you.

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And I have to say that that is a very
abridged version of a bio for you.

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Um, and I am sure more of your story will
evolve, but perhaps if you can set the

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scene, you are the best one to do this.

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Most people will remember you as bringing
the girls over from Bangladesh, but.

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You have had a long history of
supporting people and creating a charity.

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Firstly with Children First Foundation.

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Yeah.

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Children First Foundation in 1999, and
now you have the Moira Kelly Foundation.

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Can you tell me what got
you started in this work?

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Moira.

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The second organization's called
the Moira Kelly Foundation.

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But just as a child when I grew up, I
just heard about stories about Mother

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Theresa and the work that she was
doing, and I just never really believed

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someone like that existed in the world.

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So I was just totally fascinated and I
just thought she was the most wonderful

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thing I'd ever heard about in my life.

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So.

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So I all used to sell my family.

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I was gonna go work with her one day.

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They go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So the day I sold my car and saved up
my money from my airfare and headed

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to the airport, I don't think anyone
really believed it was happening.

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So yeah, so my dream was to go work
in Calcutta with Mother Teresa, and I

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suppose that's where the journey started.

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But before that, the year before,
I had gone and spent a year with

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aboriginals in Western Australia.

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In a mission out there and yeah,
made my way back to Melbourne and

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saved up my money and sold my car
and headed to Calcutta and worked

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with the person that I dreamed of.

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All my life was Mother Teresa.

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Two things like that is amazing, but
the fact that you even had the ability

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to travel to Western Australia and
live in a community that is phenomenal.

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Yeah, it was with an organization
at the time called the Palatines.

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It was a fantastic year, and they had
a mission in Perth and also one in

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Tarda, which is about three hours in
land from Geraldton or four hours.

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So yeah, it was a fabulous time and I met
some friends and one of my friends from

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school, we went together and then we met
lots of other lame missionaries and we

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just had a great, we had to great fun.

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It was just fabulous year.

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This seems so long ago now, but it
was just, I was young and carefree and

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the world was my oyster, I suppose.

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And and what age were you when you
were, were you were there Moira?

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About 19 or 20, I think.

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19 or 20.

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Yeah, I think I was about that age.

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I think.

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Something like that.

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Yeah.

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And then you found yourself in Calcutta.

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Well, then I came back and saved
my money and went to Calcutta.

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Yep.

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And I remember getting at the airport
and my brothers were there, my sister

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and mom and dad would drop me off and
they were all there at the airport.

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And my brother started saying,
you're not really gonna let go.

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And I'm thinking, what do they not get?

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And you always think as a kid
you're, you know, carers are

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gonna stop you or something.

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And I just turned around and I said,
look mom, I've got a great place to

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stay and I've got a great place to
work and all these wonderful people

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are gonna meet me at the airplane.

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But of course, none of that was true.

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But what she didn't know didn't hurt her.

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So I knew Mother Theresa was famous,
so I'll meet her when I get there.

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Oh my goodness.

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So what were your plans?

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Oh, I just knew Mother Theresa as famous.

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I asked someone when I got there, but
I just didn't want anyone stopping me.

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And I mean, who do you write to?

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Mother Theresa at Hell Cutter?

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I don't know.

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I just went and I just had the
address where there's no Google

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those days, you know, there was no
Google, no, this would've been when

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telegrams was still a, a form of
probably communication envelopes.

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Yeah, all those things.

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Those days.

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Yeah, that's what you did, those
envelopes and Yeah, but I knew she was

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famous, so Calcutta can't be that big.

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I figured.

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So that's, yeah, I did.

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And I suppose I would
never let my kids do it.

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Put that way, Catherine.

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Oh, that.

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I know the irony, isn't it?

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And so tell me, what was it like
when you first got off the airplane

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and you weren't metered by all
of those people you promised?

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Mom?

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I just had to be sort of toughen
up a bit and say, okay, more.

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This is your dream come true.

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And I, I was a bit idealistic.

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I kept thinking, well, mother's now
closer than she's ever been before.

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So once I worked out, which taxi
driver wasn't gonna rip me off.

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I ended up then going to a hostel
in the city, and then once I settled

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into there, I stuck to old maps.

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There's no Google as I said those.

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Yeah.

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And I'd asked people the street, which
is the mother house, mother Teresa.

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So yeah, so that's, that's
really how I got around.

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Did you eventually find

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Mother Teresa?

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I did the, I was very naive and I
just had this great thing in the

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world that Mother Teresa was gonna
be so excited when she met me.

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I didn't realize there were lots of
more Kellys in the world who had the

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same vision to meet Mother Teresa.

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So I remember knocking on her door in
the Laneway and the big door, the mother

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house, and I took a big breath, think,
oh my God, all my dreams are coming.

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True.

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I thought, and I knocked on this door.

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The door finally opened and I was more
shocked that Mother Teresa didn't answer.

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I just was so naive.

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I'm thinking, who on
earth is this to myself?

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And I said, oh, hello.

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Is mother not here?

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And they go, well, come in.

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Come in.

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And it was a mother house.

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So they have a lot of novitiates there.

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People trained to be nuns.

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And I said, I've come from Australia.

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Tell I'm more a Kelly.

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I must have written a few letters.

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I don't remember.

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But I said, did she get my letters?

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She probably got hundreds of s of people.

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So I just thought they were
waiting and so excited to meet me.

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So after a while when I
sat in this office and.

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This nun who was looking after volunteers,
came down and spoke to me, and then I

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was sitting there and she sort of calmed
me down and then this big bell went off.

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I always remember this big bell
coming off, and I remember looking

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out the window and I, that's when
I realized it was a novitiate.

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There were hundreds of mother
Theresa walking from one classroom

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to another, all learning to be nuns.

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I'm thinking, this is like
something out of a nightmare.

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There's hundreds, and where am I
gonna find her in this, in this?

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It was just one of those funny
little moments in my life.

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I remember looking back on that bit.

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Then when I found out, when I finally
worked out where I was gonna work

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at the Home for Dying, destitute
men and boys, and then also a place

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called for the Dying and B, which
means at Children's Orphanage.

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So I was so excited about that.

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I just happened to ask before I
left, you know, is Mother not here?

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And then they had to break the terrible
news to me that Mother Theresa, it was

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actually not the country at the time,
so I was just couldn't believe Mother

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Teresa wasn't there when I looked.

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'
cause I think for, for people who may
be unfamiliar with Mother Teresa, like.

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She was so highly revered, so,
so popular around the world.

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Yes.

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And was one of the leading peacekeepers.

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And like I remember as a child,
I, I just looked up to her

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and thought she was amazing.

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A to be a woman in this amazing
role and be so, so much of a

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leader in on the world stage.

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She was an icon.

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I mean, there's not a person in the world
who doesn't know who she's, and I can.

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I always say that she
goes past generations.

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I can guarantee the children I
speak in a school to tomorrow.

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Your grandparents will know who she's
and your grandchildren will know.

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So yeah, she's probably the world's
most famous social worker really.

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She really is.

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Some dreams come true.

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I

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think that's really beautiful.

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But I, I do, I do find that it's rather
funny that you had the moment where you

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realized that there was more than one
mother Theresa, and how were you gonna

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find her in amongst all of the habits.

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Yeah.

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So talk me through, how long

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were you there with Mother Teresa?

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It's probably just on two years
in Calcutta, and she has, as I

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said, so many homes in Calcutta.

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So there's so many places.

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But I ended up working every morning
with the brothers of Mother Therea for a

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home for dying, destitute men and boys.

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And then the afternoons
I'd go into, which is in.

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Another part of Calcutta for the
main home of Mother Thereas for

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the dying, destitute men and women.

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And I used to work in the Isha of Vans,
which is the orphanages sometimes in

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the afternoons and things like that.

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So yeah, they were wonderful days and
sort of everything you'd dreamed of

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doing in Calcutta really came true.

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You met lots of other
wonderful like-minded people

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from all over the world.

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And so yeah, it was just
fantastic place to start Your

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missionary work really, I think.

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Yeah, it was fabulous.

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It was just a dream come true.

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And when you left there,
what did you aspire to do?

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What were your hopes
and dreams from there?

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I remember meeting this lady from Norway.

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Her name was Doreen, and she was
an older woman, very glamorous

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and just a beautiful woman.

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And she'd worked in Africa and somewhere
else, and I was so inspired by her stories

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and what she was doing with her life.

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I thought, oh yeah.

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So I don't know.

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I just was really taken by her and.

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I remember I used to get the
Newsweek magazine every week.

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Got that all over the world actually.

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Wherever I was, I got that delivered
to me and I saw an article once in

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America on children with crack and AIDS
problems and I thought, wow, that's a

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really interesting area to go into it.

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Wouldn't you love to do
something like that in America

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and work with the homeless?

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So my goal then was to come back
to Australia, work like crazy, to

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earn the money to go overseas, and
I had to keep going outta money.

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So I thought I'd pop into
Africa for a year, which I did.

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And then I went to the Bronx for two
years and spent two years in the Bronx.

236
00:10:08,485 --> 00:10:12,055
So really what inspired me was the
stories of other people and what

237
00:10:12,055 --> 00:10:12,835
they were doing in their life.

238
00:10:12,835 --> 00:10:15,415
And I thought, yeah, India wasn't
enough for me, I just wanted

239
00:10:15,415 --> 00:10:16,645
to go somewhere else as well.

240
00:10:16,645 --> 00:10:20,065
And those days we always thought
the Far East, but now there was

241
00:10:20,065 --> 00:10:22,825
so much mission that can be done
in the Western world as well.

242
00:10:22,825 --> 00:10:25,355
You know, you hadn't thought of at
the time, you know, mother Theresa

243
00:10:25,375 --> 00:10:28,435
always said, you know, go home, go
back and look after your lonely and

244
00:10:28,435 --> 00:10:29,725
the people in your community as well.

245
00:10:29,725 --> 00:10:30,025
So.

246
00:10:30,525 --> 00:10:33,464
Yeah, she was a great, great one
on their own communities as well.

247
00:10:33,584 --> 00:10:35,925
And she's got homes here in
Melbourne, Victoria as well.

248
00:10:35,985 --> 00:10:38,805
She looks after people in Australia,
so she's got two houses here in

249
00:10:38,805 --> 00:10:40,305
Victoria in Melbourne itself.

250
00:10:41,204 --> 00:10:41,775
Oh really?

251
00:10:41,775 --> 00:10:43,214
I didn't, I wasn't aware of that.

252
00:10:43,875 --> 00:10:47,564
Yeah, she's got a, a soup kitchen
in Gore Street, Victoria and she's

253
00:10:47,564 --> 00:10:50,834
got a woman's shelter for homeless
women and children also here in

254
00:10:50,834 --> 00:10:52,334
Fitzroy and other, another health.

255
00:10:52,334 --> 00:10:55,425
So people get a bit of shock when
they hear we have mother Theresa.

256
00:10:55,935 --> 00:10:57,645
Looking after people in Australia as well.

257
00:10:57,675 --> 00:11:00,225
'cause sometimes we think of India,
but she's all over the world.

258
00:11:00,675 --> 00:11:03,975
I think the only country she never
got to, and one of her dreams before

259
00:11:03,975 --> 00:11:06,795
she died, she would always get to
China, but she could never get there.

260
00:11:07,575 --> 00:11:09,975
That was one of her goals was
to set up a house in China.

261
00:11:11,145 --> 00:11:11,985
That's amazing.

262
00:11:12,615 --> 00:11:12,795
Yeah.

263
00:11:12,795 --> 00:11:13,065
And so

264
00:11:13,065 --> 00:11:18,345
tell me what motivated you to, you
know, start children first in 1999?

265
00:11:19,275 --> 00:11:20,910
I actually did it when I lived in Albania.

266
00:11:21,735 --> 00:11:24,435
I had the children first
foundation in Albania because I'd

267
00:11:24,435 --> 00:11:25,845
gone from Albania, from Bosnia.

268
00:11:26,564 --> 00:11:30,645
So I lived in Eastern Europe for nine
years and I'd gone from the war zone four

269
00:11:30,645 --> 00:11:33,314
and a half years in Bosnia to Albania.

270
00:11:33,314 --> 00:11:36,405
I was gonna go set up a soup kitchen
'cause they hadn't got a soup kitchen.

271
00:11:36,405 --> 00:11:39,255
They had a terrible situation
of homelessness in in Albania.

272
00:11:39,255 --> 00:11:40,845
That was the plan from friends in Ireland.

273
00:11:41,444 --> 00:11:44,985
We were gonna send trucks out and
they sort of encouraged me and so they

274
00:11:44,985 --> 00:11:46,545
were gonna help me set up over there.

275
00:11:46,545 --> 00:11:47,895
So I went over on my own.

276
00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:53,280
I actually set up the Children First
Foundation in Albania, and I remember

277
00:11:53,339 --> 00:11:55,860
I was working with sister's Mother
Teresa there one day and I remember

278
00:11:56,189 --> 00:11:57,449
there was a turning point in my life.

279
00:11:57,449 --> 00:12:00,599
I was very determined not to
do operations for kids anymore.

280
00:12:01,050 --> 00:12:02,610
I'd done so many of that in Bosnia.

281
00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:05,219
I just wanted to go back to,
you know, doing other aid work

282
00:12:05,219 --> 00:12:06,479
and not all this one facility.

283
00:12:06,479 --> 00:12:08,790
Taking kids from one country
to another and, 'cause there

284
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:09,839
was so much sat in Bosnia.

285
00:12:09,839 --> 00:12:13,319
So this nun asked me one day, so
Moira, what are you doing in Bosnia?

286
00:12:13,875 --> 00:12:16,845
I said, oh sister, I took lots of
kids to Australia, but lot more

287
00:12:16,845 --> 00:12:21,495
to America and to Ireland, to
Austria, to Belfast for operations.

288
00:12:21,495 --> 00:12:22,335
And I said, oh really?

289
00:12:22,335 --> 00:12:22,455
Mo?

290
00:12:22,755 --> 00:12:25,755
And she asked what the problems
were and, oh, more there's children

291
00:12:25,755 --> 00:12:27,074
in Albania that need this there.

292
00:12:27,074 --> 00:12:29,925
You know, Albania was the only third
world country in Europe at the time.

293
00:12:30,555 --> 00:12:32,145
And I said, oh, well sister, you know.

294
00:12:32,730 --> 00:12:33,570
I don't do that anymore.

295
00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:34,650
I've cleansed the old soul.

296
00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:37,140
I said, but you know,
you are very experienced.

297
00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:39,330
Your sisters are Mother Teresa
and you've got houses all over the

298
00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:40,500
world and you have the finance.

299
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,380
I said, you know, if your sisters wanna
do it, I'm happy to tell you how to do it.

300
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,310
So about two days later, I was
going to the sister's house and it

301
00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:49,110
was distribution day every Monday.

302
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:51,960
And I remember at the front of
the gate, it was all hundreds of

303
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,440
people lined up with their token
and I slipped at the front of the

304
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,820
gate to get in to get my apron.

305
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,620
And I had a very important job that day.

306
00:12:58,620 --> 00:13:00,540
Catherine, I was gonna
distribute cooking oil.

307
00:13:00,540 --> 00:13:01,830
My table was the cooking oil.

308
00:13:02,505 --> 00:13:04,365
And so they usually go
from one table to another.

309
00:13:04,365 --> 00:13:06,345
So as I walked in the gate this day.

310
00:13:07,245 --> 00:13:11,204
I saw three children and they were
to the side of the sisters there in

311
00:13:11,204 --> 00:13:15,104
the entrance there, just below the
foyer, and they were very disfigured.

312
00:13:15,915 --> 00:13:17,474
And I went, I was so aghast.

313
00:13:17,474 --> 00:13:19,035
I was so shocked because I
wasn't expecting to see it.

314
00:13:19,035 --> 00:13:22,635
And I yelled out to sister, I
said, sister, sister, have you seen

315
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:23,865
these three children down here?

316
00:13:23,865 --> 00:13:24,765
I said, oh my God.

317
00:13:24,765 --> 00:13:27,074
I said, what's going on
with these three children?

318
00:13:27,435 --> 00:13:29,535
And she was mopping the
floor up, up on the balcony.

319
00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:33,240
Couldn't see her, but I could hear her
and as she was mopping she yelled, oh,

320
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:34,560
good morning Moira, you've arrived.

321
00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:37,350
I thought you'd might like to meet these
three children today while you are here.

322
00:13:38,910 --> 00:13:43,080
So, ah, so that was the sort
of, but I needed to, maybe

323
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:43,950
I'm meant to be doing that.

324
00:13:43,950 --> 00:13:47,880
So that sort of started the role with
these children starting operations

325
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:48,990
for kids in Albania as well.

326
00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:51,300
So then it sort of hasn't
stopped since then.

327
00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:54,900
So I never did get the mobile soup
fan started, but I certainly did

328
00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:57,810
lots of other things in Cal, you
know, in Teran and, but actually.

329
00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:01,110
Albania Toronto is their
birthplace of Mother Teresa.

330
00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:01,410
Of course.

331
00:14:01,410 --> 00:14:06,210
She's a ethnic Albanian from Beto
in Macedonia, so she's an Albanian.

332
00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:08,550
So yes, that was a nice
place to continue the work.

333
00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:09,630
Yeah.

334
00:14:09,930 --> 00:14:14,130
And tell me, when you say that you
were doing operations, can you talk us

335
00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:15,570
through about what that was involving?

336
00:14:15,570 --> 00:14:19,255
Because obviously that's been coming
consistent throughout all your life.

337
00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:21,510
I lived in Bosnia.

338
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,470
People kept arriving with sick
kids, and once you took one child

339
00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:28,650
to America or to Ireland, then
other people would hear about it.

340
00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:28,920
So.

341
00:14:29,565 --> 00:14:32,625
I just started getting documents and
paperwork on children that arrive at

342
00:14:32,625 --> 00:14:34,395
my refugee camp from all over Bosnia.

343
00:14:34,395 --> 00:14:35,685
It wasn't necessarily from my area.

344
00:14:36,255 --> 00:14:39,435
And then I'd sent off to people in
Ireland and that time I wasn't doing

345
00:14:39,435 --> 00:14:41,775
it in Australia and to America.

346
00:14:41,775 --> 00:14:45,285
And I remember one stage in moa, I was
up there at the Container Hospital.

347
00:14:45,615 --> 00:14:46,786
'cause on the East MOA was all.

348
00:14:47,484 --> 00:14:49,974
These containers set up by
the South Africans, because

349
00:14:50,425 --> 00:14:51,895
Mossa was a divided city.

350
00:14:51,895 --> 00:14:54,925
So one side was a Croatian, the
other side was the Bosnian Muslims.

351
00:14:54,925 --> 00:14:58,375
And so the hospitals were socially
on the west side, so the Muslims

352
00:14:58,375 --> 00:15:00,655
didn't have really hospitals,
so they had container hospitals.

353
00:15:00,655 --> 00:15:05,364
And I remember I walked in there one day
and said, did you have any case of kids?

354
00:15:05,364 --> 00:15:08,484
And basically they gave me a
list of, um, these three pages

355
00:15:08,484 --> 00:15:09,745
and it was like 30 kids on it.

356
00:15:09,745 --> 00:15:13,314
And I went, oh my goodness, I, maybe I've
backed more than I could chew, you know?

357
00:15:13,314 --> 00:15:13,854
But then.

358
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:16,710
He said to me, so when
you've gone through that, Ms.

359
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:19,680
Kelly, no doubt, come back
and we'll give you the other

360
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,940
a hundred pages we have here.

361
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,080
So he thought he'd never see me again
because I was a bit shocked when he

362
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,300
had that many, 'cause at the stage
I'd done a few children, but I just

363
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:29,760
thought I'd reach out to Mo to see
if I could help some kids there.

364
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,530
And so to make a long story short, I ended
up getting the registrar for pediatrics

365
00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:37,680
at Massachusetts General Hospital would
come out and spend a week with me.

366
00:15:38,564 --> 00:15:42,165
In Master and she went through all that
list of paperwork of those children

367
00:15:42,165 --> 00:15:46,035
and some others, and she chose about,
I think we had about 15 kids who

368
00:15:46,035 --> 00:15:48,915
were candidates to come to America.

369
00:15:49,364 --> 00:15:51,525
And there was a group called
Nobody's Children that I hooked up

370
00:15:51,525 --> 00:15:54,165
with there who were doing fabulous
work in Romania and also in.

371
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:56,369
Just outside Boston in New Hampshire.

372
00:15:56,370 --> 00:16:00,180
And so we ended up about six months
later with I think about 20 of those

373
00:16:00,180 --> 00:16:03,810
kids in, in Boston, we galvanized
all the hospitals in Boston.

374
00:16:03,810 --> 00:16:04,650
They were phenomenal.

375
00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:07,170
So yeah, it was one of those magic
moments and that's where it all

376
00:16:07,170 --> 00:16:09,480
started when I started taking
big groups of kids like that.

377
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,270
So I. Yeah, sometimes it's a wing and
a prayer you go by, but sometimes I

378
00:16:13,270 --> 00:16:15,520
think in life, you know, Catherine,
if you think about things too

379
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,630
much, you never get anything done.

380
00:16:16,989 --> 00:16:19,449
So sometimes you just gotta do it.

381
00:16:19,510 --> 00:16:21,069
I had that saying long before Nike.

382
00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:24,969
So everything in life, if you think
too much about anything, we'll all be,

383
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,439
you know, put off with these things.

384
00:16:26,439 --> 00:16:27,609
So sometimes you just have to do it.

385
00:16:28,170 --> 00:16:30,479
What point did you move back to Australia?

386
00:16:30,479 --> 00:16:32,790
Moira, I've never really felt
that I finished in Albania.

387
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:35,880
I'd like to have stayed there longer,
but there was a few things that changed.

388
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,540
That was one little girl from Albania
who had a really bad heart condition.

389
00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:43,949
I took her to Belfast and she
was operable, but they asked

390
00:16:43,949 --> 00:16:44,729
for lots and lots of money.

391
00:16:44,729 --> 00:16:46,680
They asked for like 60,000
pounds, and of course.

392
00:16:47,405 --> 00:16:50,105
I'm an A worker, but one with no
money, you know, empty pockets,

393
00:16:50,105 --> 00:16:53,344
and I just never thought it was the
first time in my life I came across a

394
00:16:53,344 --> 00:16:55,895
place where people would say, unless
you've got the money, we can't do it.

395
00:16:55,895 --> 00:16:58,115
I just never thought that
would happen when a child's in

396
00:16:58,115 --> 00:16:59,135
front of your face, you know?

397
00:16:59,765 --> 00:16:59,885
Yeah.

398
00:16:59,915 --> 00:17:02,314
So, yeah, it was a
really hard time for me.

399
00:17:02,314 --> 00:17:02,675
So.

400
00:17:02,745 --> 00:17:06,224
They did a cardiac catheter, which
was for free, was worth a few thousand

401
00:17:06,224 --> 00:17:08,655
pounds anyway, that could sort of work
out what was wrong with her heart.

402
00:17:08,655 --> 00:17:10,994
And she was a little Albanian,
the cutest little thing

403
00:17:10,994 --> 00:17:11,835
you've ever seen in your life.

404
00:17:11,835 --> 00:17:14,925
Her little name was Vera and it
was such a long journey that time.

405
00:17:14,925 --> 00:17:17,265
You know, I lived with other
kids, but she was my last one

406
00:17:17,265 --> 00:17:18,285
to see if I could get done.

407
00:17:18,285 --> 00:17:21,119
But it just didn't work out
and, and they said, look.

408
00:17:21,810 --> 00:17:24,210
If you wanna bring her
back here, I says you can.

409
00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:28,110
But they said Mo, she's opera, but she
won't be operable within six months.

410
00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:29,730
And I said, what does that mean?

411
00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:32,730
I says, mean we can fix her now,
but if you don't operate within

412
00:17:32,730 --> 00:17:34,110
six months, she won't be operable.

413
00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:37,020
She'll probably have a, a short
life, probably lived about

414
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:39,030
12 or 14, 15 years of age.

415
00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:41,265
And I'd never even heard
those words before.

416
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,710
'cause sometimes if you bring a
sick kid to a doctor and a surgeon,

417
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:44,763
you think they're gonna fix them.

418
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:45,700
Just an expression.

419
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,430
I have an innocent ignorance, which is
a lovely place to be in life sometimes

420
00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:49,660
and not accept the world for what it is.

421
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:53,110
And so then, you know, after a lot
of tears, and I dunno, how do you

422
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:55,900
take her back to obey you and say,
look, I know what's wrong with it.

423
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,850
They could have fixed it, but
I just didn't have the money.

424
00:17:57,879 --> 00:18:00,250
'cause they just think
everyone the west has.

425
00:18:00,685 --> 00:18:01,585
Deep pockets, you know?

426
00:18:01,825 --> 00:18:01,915
Mm-hmm.

427
00:18:02,215 --> 00:18:04,645
So that's when we found out, I
rang some friends in Melbourne.

428
00:18:04,645 --> 00:18:07,735
They told me about they do operate and
they've seen kids on the news who go

429
00:18:07,735 --> 00:18:10,855
to Melbourne Children's and they came
from New Guinea and that, and they found

430
00:18:10,855 --> 00:18:13,315
out that we could get a hard operation
done for 10 a half thousand dollars.

431
00:18:13,915 --> 00:18:16,254
So suddenly that didn't
sound so much anymore.

432
00:18:16,465 --> 00:18:16,675
Yeah.

433
00:18:16,675 --> 00:18:18,565
Compared to the 60,000 pounds.

434
00:18:18,895 --> 00:18:19,075
Yeah.

435
00:18:19,585 --> 00:18:23,034
So lo and behold, my friend
Louise Warden raised the money

436
00:18:23,034 --> 00:18:24,040
here in Melbourne and then.

437
00:18:24,835 --> 00:18:28,465
I had two boys that I, I'd
heard about, it was two years

438
00:18:28,465 --> 00:18:29,845
trying to get them out of Iraq.

439
00:18:29,845 --> 00:18:30,655
It was a long story.

440
00:18:30,655 --> 00:18:33,775
It was little boys called Ahed
Emmanuel, and I meant had to bring

441
00:18:33,775 --> 00:18:36,145
them forward as well, which was
very complicated at the time.

442
00:18:36,145 --> 00:18:39,205
But I ended up having to get them
out of Iraq and leave them in Jordan

443
00:18:39,205 --> 00:18:42,835
with the sister of Mother Teresa
and I had to leave Albania earlier.

444
00:18:43,355 --> 00:18:46,535
Head to Australia with those two boys
from Iraq and these other children,

445
00:18:46,565 --> 00:18:50,135
all because of Pan Vera's life, because
otherwise she wouldn't have been operable.

446
00:18:50,135 --> 00:18:53,165
That was a terrible, terrible burden
to have on your back of your head.

447
00:18:53,165 --> 00:18:55,145
So I left Albania sort
of a little bit earlier.

448
00:18:55,145 --> 00:18:58,865
The boys came a bit earlier and
they ended up in Les and, and then

449
00:18:58,865 --> 00:19:02,285
Yeah, and Pan Vera got operated and
got saved and it was phenomenal.

450
00:19:02,285 --> 00:19:03,455
She was a very blue child.

451
00:19:03,455 --> 00:19:04,205
She was a very.

452
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:07,190
Very sick little girl and she
had a major heart operation.

453
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:09,290
She had a transposition of
the greater arteries, which is

454
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:10,910
a operation called a switch.

455
00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:11,660
Yeah.

456
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:15,230
So that little girl's life because
of Belfast and because of Melbourne.

457
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:17,900
So, and she's back in Albania
living a normal life now.

458
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:20,450
So that's how I ended up back
in also quickly because a little

459
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:21,860
child's life sort of dictated it.

460
00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:24,920
So, and there's not a listener out there
that wouldn't have done the same thing.

461
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,280
So.

462
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:29,250
Sometimes the universe tells you what
you have to do and little kids faces

463
00:19:29,370 --> 00:19:30,690
are the answers to all that you know?

464
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:31,230
Yeah.

465
00:19:31,230 --> 00:19:31,620
And

466
00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:35,550
some are probably the most famous
little kids faces that we know that

467
00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:40,200
are associated with you, your adopted
daughters, Krishna and Trishna, who

468
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,760
we mentioned in the intro that you
brought them here to Australia, to

469
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:50,100
specifically Melbourne and the Royal
Children's for operation in 2009.

470
00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:51,960
How did you first meet them?

471
00:19:52,379 --> 00:19:56,370
Well, I'm actually their legal guardian
alongside their biological mother, who

472
00:19:56,370 --> 00:19:57,870
lives probably about 10 minutes from here.

473
00:19:57,870 --> 00:19:58,590
So I brought her at this day.

474
00:19:59,550 --> 00:20:00,600
She lives there two far.

475
00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:01,710
That's all.

476
00:20:01,710 --> 00:20:02,850
A lot of people always say that.

477
00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:06,450
They call them cs, they call them
adopted, so it doesn't matter.

478
00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:07,560
It's all pretty innocent.

479
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,510
But we heard about them
when I was in Melbourne.

480
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:12,780
Actually, a plastic surgeon in
Melbourne called me who wasn't

481
00:20:12,780 --> 00:20:13,650
involved with the children's.

482
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:15,690
And then I rang up a plastic surgeon.

483
00:20:15,690 --> 00:20:20,280
I knew very well Tony Holmes, who was
notorious for his fabulous work and had

484
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,700
done lots of kids with me in the past,
especially from little girl from Pakistan.

485
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:27,120
It was a huge case one day, and
I told 'em about these kids.

486
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,100
I didn't know much about them, so we just.

487
00:20:29,754 --> 00:20:31,375
I basically went over to Bangladesh.

488
00:20:31,375 --> 00:20:32,125
He said, bring them over.

489
00:20:32,125 --> 00:20:33,895
We'll see what's gonna happen
and what we need to do.

490
00:20:33,895 --> 00:20:36,415
And we thought at the time
they had a heart problem.

491
00:20:36,415 --> 00:20:38,514
So I was dealing with the
cardiologist here at Melbourne.

492
00:20:38,514 --> 00:20:41,004
We didn't think it was a head problem
whether they were joined, but we thought

493
00:20:41,784 --> 00:20:44,395
it was a, it was an issue with their
cardiac issue, which they didn't have.

494
00:20:44,395 --> 00:20:45,865
That wasn't the primary problem.

495
00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:49,764
So yeah, I just remember meeting them
in the private hospital in Bangladesh,

496
00:20:49,825 --> 00:20:53,335
and they were the tiniest little people,
little fish now, the healthy one.

497
00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:56,125
She was chubby and
healthy and cute as ever.

498
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,270
Then you had little Krishy who was
the tiny skinny, you could see her

499
00:21:00,270 --> 00:21:02,790
ribs and her, you could actually
see her heart beating to her chest.

500
00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:03,120
Yeah.

501
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,070
It was a bit confronting and Wow.

502
00:21:05,070 --> 00:21:08,129
So I spent the time in the hospital with
them just to try and get used to looking

503
00:21:08,129 --> 00:21:09,420
after them before I flew them here.

504
00:21:09,420 --> 00:21:13,110
So yeah, that I always remember
the little one sitting there in

505
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:15,120
this little hot together one.

506
00:21:15,125 --> 00:21:19,190
I. Naso tubes and the other one was
at a bottle and she just bumping

507
00:21:19,215 --> 00:21:20,505
and laughing and smiling to see you.

508
00:21:20,505 --> 00:21:23,985
And I had no idea the journey that
was gonna unfold in that moment.

509
00:21:23,985 --> 00:21:24,375
I met them.

510
00:21:24,375 --> 00:21:25,155
I had no idea.

511
00:21:25,845 --> 00:21:28,815
But yeah, that was the special day in
my life, really meeting them there,

512
00:21:29,505 --> 00:21:32,445
sort of couldn't wait to get them
back to Australia so that someone

513
00:21:32,445 --> 00:21:34,935
else could take the responsibility of
the medical side of them, you know?

514
00:21:34,935 --> 00:21:36,075
So yeah.

515
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,445
So that was where the journey all
began with Trishna and Krishna.

516
00:21:38,895 --> 00:21:42,195
And I have to say, I don't think I
was the only person who waited with

517
00:21:42,195 --> 00:21:46,695
bated breath waiting to see the
outcome when they were separated.

518
00:21:46,695 --> 00:21:51,015
And that was, that was like 38,
40 something hours, wasn't it?

519
00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:51,975
It was a long

520
00:21:51,975 --> 00:21:52,245
time.

521
00:21:52,245 --> 00:21:52,395
It was.

522
00:21:53,085 --> 00:21:53,865
It was crazy.

523
00:21:54,195 --> 00:21:55,425
And that was their last surgery.

524
00:21:55,425 --> 00:21:58,695
But they had many operations before
that, and some of the operations before

525
00:21:58,695 --> 00:22:02,145
that were just as dangerous, if not
more, because the two neurosurgeons

526
00:22:02,145 --> 00:22:03,525
were separating them inside.

527
00:22:03,595 --> 00:22:07,285
Before the last lot was
outside was the cranial stuff.

528
00:22:07,285 --> 00:22:10,795
So yeah, that was a ter I wouldn't,
I would never wanna do it again

529
00:22:10,795 --> 00:22:11,845
and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

530
00:22:11,845 --> 00:22:15,535
And look, if it wasn't for the bravery
and the dedication and the charisma of

531
00:22:15,535 --> 00:22:19,195
these surgeons and the people that said
yes to the girls, they wouldn't be here.

532
00:22:19,195 --> 00:22:21,265
So it certainly wasn't just about me.

533
00:22:21,265 --> 00:22:24,025
It was a big team of the children's
and those brave people who took it

534
00:22:24,025 --> 00:22:27,715
on, and the wonderful support crew I
had around me and the girls as well.

535
00:22:27,715 --> 00:22:29,545
So there were a lot of lonely nights.

536
00:22:29,545 --> 00:22:31,435
I will tell you that you are
on your own at night with them.

537
00:22:31,650 --> 00:22:33,630
Long nights, and they
were very hard nights.

538
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,810
You just hope they'd be awake
every morning you woke up.

539
00:22:36,810 --> 00:22:39,300
There was a few times you'd
think like that, but yeah,

540
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:40,590
it was a very difficult time.

541
00:22:40,590 --> 00:22:41,970
But you don't regret a thing.

542
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:44,130
You never would, and you just
had to always keep focus.

543
00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:46,470
And when something bad happened,
you'd just go, okay, what do we do?

544
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:46,770
What do we do now?

545
00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:50,250
And so, yeah, it was a bit of a journey
and they've made a documentary, but

546
00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:51,360
I've never seen the whole of it.

547
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:51,690
Never.

548
00:22:51,870 --> 00:22:54,030
I couldn't watch, I've only watched
half of it, the documentary that

549
00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:55,170
was out on Channel seven, but.

550
00:22:55,725 --> 00:22:56,745
I just can't watch it.

551
00:22:56,745 --> 00:22:58,665
'cause it sort of relives
everything you went through.

552
00:22:58,784 --> 00:22:59,685
'cause it was too real.

553
00:22:59,985 --> 00:23:00,375
Yeah.

554
00:23:00,375 --> 00:23:02,895
And you were there for the
first, for the first round.

555
00:23:02,895 --> 00:23:04,334
You don't need to see the replay.

556
00:23:04,665 --> 00:23:05,024
Yeah.

557
00:23:05,024 --> 00:23:06,435
A bit too raw for me, I'm afraid.

558
00:23:06,439 --> 00:23:06,610
Yeah.

559
00:23:06,764 --> 00:23:07,185
Yeah.

560
00:23:07,215 --> 00:23:07,695
I can.

561
00:23:07,695 --> 00:23:08,925
I can appreciate that.

562
00:23:08,985 --> 00:23:12,524
And so the girls are
now 18 years of age now.

563
00:23:12,675 --> 00:23:12,855
Yeah.

564
00:23:13,274 --> 00:23:13,995
Unbelievable.

565
00:23:13,995 --> 00:23:17,084
But yeah, people don't realize that I've
tried to keep them at the press to them

566
00:23:17,084 --> 00:23:18,435
to have a normal life as well, you know?

567
00:23:18,435 --> 00:23:20,655
So it's their decision
now to do their story.

568
00:23:20,655 --> 00:23:24,375
So Trish, she has just done a
story actually with current affair.

569
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:25,820
She's 18 now.

570
00:23:25,850 --> 00:23:28,430
'cause they've asked a few times
and said, look, I'm not doing that.

571
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:30,620
I just want the girls have a
normal life, but when they're their

572
00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:31,520
age, they can do what they like.

573
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,300
So fishy has just done a story is
gonna air probably pretty soon, and she

574
00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:37,639
just wanted to have this opportunity
to thank Australia for what they did

575
00:23:37,639 --> 00:23:40,909
for her and all the prayers and the
doctors who never gave up on her and the

576
00:23:40,909 --> 00:23:43,010
people who are around me and the team.

577
00:23:43,530 --> 00:23:46,350
So it was her story of just
saying thank you and look because

578
00:23:46,350 --> 00:23:47,159
of the decisions you made.

579
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:47,580
Look at me.

580
00:23:47,580 --> 00:23:49,260
And she spoke on behalf of her sister.

581
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:52,050
So it's something that she wanted
to do, and it was her choice.

582
00:23:52,050 --> 00:23:56,550
And so, yes, she's a beautiful,
charismatic, outgoing, funny

583
00:23:56,610 --> 00:24:00,990
young lady, and she's very, very
protective of her beautiful sister.

584
00:24:01,515 --> 00:24:03,105
And tell me about your story.

585
00:24:03,105 --> 00:24:08,985
So from the age of three to the age
of 18, have you always been their

586
00:24:08,985 --> 00:24:12,825
legal guardian and have they actually
resided with you here in Australia?

587
00:24:12,915 --> 00:24:13,095
Yes.

588
00:24:13,305 --> 00:24:15,435
They came out when they were
about six months actually,

589
00:24:15,585 --> 00:24:16,545
when they came to Australia.

590
00:24:16,545 --> 00:24:16,725
Yeah.

591
00:24:16,755 --> 00:24:17,775
So from the start, yeah.

592
00:24:18,195 --> 00:24:20,380
So from the moment they
landed in Australia, it was.

593
00:24:20,795 --> 00:24:21,990
I slept with 'em every single night.

594
00:24:22,770 --> 00:24:25,050
So, yes, they've, um, always been my care.

595
00:24:25,050 --> 00:24:28,590
And look, they were really very sick
little girls and they had a lot of

596
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:31,770
medical needs at home, you know, so most
of those kids would be left in hospital.

597
00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:36,210
But anyway, I think a good thing,
a lot of people on our side and the

598
00:24:36,210 --> 00:24:37,710
good lord kept them healthy and.

599
00:24:38,175 --> 00:24:39,165
Kept us vigilant.

600
00:24:39,165 --> 00:24:42,135
So yeah, they were, it was, you
know, they had trackies, they had

601
00:24:42,615 --> 00:24:43,995
blood pressures going at nighttime.

602
00:24:43,995 --> 00:24:46,005
They had feeding tubes,
they had injections.

603
00:24:46,215 --> 00:24:49,575
It was just sometimes it
looked like a mini, I see.

604
00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:50,655
U in my lounge room, really?

605
00:24:50,955 --> 00:24:54,465
But those are just memories
that go back so far now.

606
00:24:55,125 --> 00:24:57,495
And now they're just sort me,
young ladies, really, you know?

607
00:24:57,959 --> 00:24:59,669
And their mother Lovely.

608
00:24:59,669 --> 00:25:03,719
Has always been involved as, as much
as she can from my understanding.

609
00:25:03,719 --> 00:25:04,350
Is that right?

610
00:25:05,399 --> 00:25:08,280
Well, she's, she went back for a couple
of years to her family and then came

611
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,770
back again and, well, the girls are
older now, so she doesn't see them

612
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:14,520
as much, but Trisha pops over there
probably a couple times a month for a

613
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,480
nice curry and she's got two younger
children now, so she's sort of busy

614
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,889
with them and the girls have moved on.

615
00:25:19,889 --> 00:25:23,909
So they certainly saw Lovely, a fair bit,
and we've just become friends now, so

616
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:27,700
it's more like a. An adult relationship
and she catches up with them when she

617
00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:29,470
does, but she's got a little newborn baby.

618
00:25:29,470 --> 00:25:33,160
She's is only a year old now
and a 10-year-old boy, so

619
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,180
she's a busy mum with that.

620
00:25:34,180 --> 00:25:35,470
So she's just happy.

621
00:25:35,470 --> 00:25:38,620
Her kids are okay and done well, and
yeah, so she's not far from here and

622
00:25:39,010 --> 00:25:41,320
yeah, so she's sort of a family friend.

623
00:25:41,895 --> 00:25:44,115
That's great to have that context for

624
00:25:44,115 --> 00:25:49,035
us and something that only, you know,
obviously like came out very openly.

625
00:25:49,335 --> 00:25:53,505
Much to, I think your surprise last
year when you're on the, the radio

626
00:25:53,505 --> 00:25:58,065
interview with Neil Mitchell on
three A was the fact that you had

627
00:25:58,095 --> 00:26:02,865
had gone through the process of organ
donation with Krishna during COVID.

628
00:26:02,895 --> 00:26:06,465
So I'm sure that wasn't like her.

629
00:26:06,889 --> 00:26:10,970
End stage kidney failure issues, was
that something that had been building

630
00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:14,885
or something that you were aware of
after the original operation or no.

631
00:26:15,675 --> 00:26:19,215
When the girls were joined, one girl
had high blood pressure, the other

632
00:26:19,215 --> 00:26:21,435
one had low blood pressure, so the
one that had low blood pressure

633
00:26:21,945 --> 00:26:23,445
had low profusion to the kidneys.

634
00:26:23,775 --> 00:26:27,945
So of course they were underdeveloped,
but no one really thought that she'd have

635
00:26:27,945 --> 00:26:29,595
a problem until she became to adulthood.

636
00:26:30,165 --> 00:26:32,865
But they always say any child
with a chronic illness, they

637
00:26:32,865 --> 00:26:35,860
can either sell through puberty
or would hit them really hard.

638
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:39,450
And it just hit Krishna so
hard unexpectedly to all

639
00:26:39,450 --> 00:26:40,410
of the team at the kids.

640
00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:42,510
And yeah, she became a
very sick little girl.

641
00:26:42,510 --> 00:26:46,110
So those stories you heard on the
television that people waiting

642
00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:49,620
for ambulances like for three
or two hours, that was me here.

643
00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:52,200
And sometimes Krishy was having seizures.

644
00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:53,580
It was very rude and.

645
00:26:53,955 --> 00:26:55,004
Waiting for ambulances to come.

646
00:26:55,004 --> 00:26:59,055
And it wasn't epilepsy, it was kidney
related, and they were just horrific

647
00:26:59,055 --> 00:27:01,095
times and we got canceled three times.

648
00:27:01,095 --> 00:27:04,185
And yeah, it was just a,
a very horrific thing.

649
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:07,004
And, and see, Krishy's got special
needs too, but she always knows

650
00:27:07,004 --> 00:27:08,264
the world's a beautiful place.

651
00:27:08,264 --> 00:27:11,325
And she, like all six children,
they always look at their mom's,

652
00:27:11,325 --> 00:27:12,555
moms are gonna fix everything up.

653
00:27:12,555 --> 00:27:15,735
So when the time came and they said,
you know, she was gonna have to have.

654
00:27:15,875 --> 00:27:17,885
Kidney transplant straight
away said, well, can I do that?

655
00:27:17,885 --> 00:27:18,455
Can I do that?

656
00:27:19,055 --> 00:27:19,710
Because I never knew how.

657
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:20,375
I knew nothing.

658
00:27:20,375 --> 00:27:22,625
I only ever heard about
donors who had died.

659
00:27:22,625 --> 00:27:23,765
I'd never heard about live donors.

660
00:27:23,765 --> 00:27:26,765
I mean, you might have heard about it,
but I didn't really take it on board.

661
00:27:26,765 --> 00:27:28,775
And so now I'm just so passionate.

662
00:27:28,775 --> 00:27:31,655
I just wish I had another spare kidney
because it was such an easy thing to

663
00:27:31,655 --> 00:27:32,675
do and it's such a good thing to do.

664
00:27:32,675 --> 00:27:36,335
And I look at Krishy and I just
sometimes can't believe that, you know.

665
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:36,920
Wow.

666
00:27:37,010 --> 00:27:38,810
There's something I've
really done to save her life.

667
00:27:38,810 --> 00:27:38,990
You know?

668
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:39,590
That's how I feel.

669
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:42,770
Anyway, but then I found out
there's like 14,000 Australians.

670
00:27:42,770 --> 00:27:46,460
People, moms and dads and uncles and
aunties and cousins and sisters out there,

671
00:27:47,090 --> 00:27:50,000
brothers who are wanting kidneys, and I'm
thinking, God, if everyone in Australia

672
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,350
knew that someone like me can do to
Krishna, she's a Bangladeshi origin, and

673
00:27:54,350 --> 00:27:57,560
I'm just an Aussie girl from Melbourne,
and I've got the same kidney function

674
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,540
I had before I gave my kidney away.

675
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:01,580
So everything's back to normal to me.

676
00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:03,020
You wouldn't even know I had one kidney.

677
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:04,520
I'm just so excited that I did it.

678
00:28:04,855 --> 00:28:06,985
And I was so excited that
they said I could do it.

679
00:28:06,985 --> 00:28:09,895
And I passed the medical, and I
remember this great nurse telling me

680
00:28:09,895 --> 00:28:12,775
once when I was a bit upset, when I
heard Chrisy was so sick, and he caught

681
00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:14,935
me in the downstairs of the children.

682
00:28:14,935 --> 00:28:15,775
He said, Mo, you're okay?

683
00:28:15,775 --> 00:28:16,525
And his name is Brenda.

684
00:28:16,525 --> 00:28:20,185
I said, oh, he knew me from years ago
from all my heart kids on the heart ward.

685
00:28:20,725 --> 00:28:21,955
And I said, oh, you won't believe it.

686
00:28:22,225 --> 00:28:23,875
Josh has just said Chrisy needs a kidney.

687
00:28:24,490 --> 00:28:26,710
He must be crazy 'cause I was so shocked.

688
00:28:27,010 --> 00:28:30,190
Josh was the specialist and he started
talk telling me about it's not more,

689
00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:32,470
you know, it's not as bad as it sounds
and you know more if you don't pass,

690
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:33,490
you're gonna get a great medical.

691
00:28:33,490 --> 00:28:36,010
It's all for nothing, you know, and you'll
find there's anything else wrong with

692
00:28:36,010 --> 00:28:38,470
they, so you gonna, you get a medical
that no Australian will ever have.

693
00:28:38,740 --> 00:28:42,125
So that was, was selling car, I think,
I don't know because the most important

694
00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:44,920
thing was that Krishy would get a kidney
and, you know, you'd get over this really

695
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,100
quickly and yeah, she'd do so well,
she'd never have to go on dialysis.

696
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:49,540
And so sort of.

697
00:28:49,645 --> 00:28:52,135
Probably with that reassurance I need to
hear, 'cause I thought they were crazy.

698
00:28:52,645 --> 00:28:52,827
What did they do?

699
00:28:52,827 --> 00:28:53,725
Why did you wanna give Chrisy a kidney?

700
00:28:53,725 --> 00:28:54,535
She just got a new head.

701
00:28:54,535 --> 00:28:57,205
Why She couldn't understand.

702
00:28:57,615 --> 00:29:00,945
How the world could be so cool,
but Well, what a miracle we had

703
00:29:00,945 --> 00:29:02,595
was, um, yeah, it was so easy too.

704
00:29:02,595 --> 00:29:03,825
You know, it was amazing.

705
00:29:04,125 --> 00:29:07,125
The team at the oted, they did the
kidney transplants for the parents, for

706
00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:08,835
the children's and they were amazing.

707
00:29:08,865 --> 00:29:12,405
It's very, very private and very separate
and you go through rigorous medicals

708
00:29:12,405 --> 00:29:15,045
and I'm not really going into, I can
let other people have it, but myself.

709
00:29:15,045 --> 00:29:15,855
So it was a bit challenging.

710
00:29:16,065 --> 00:29:16,590
But yeah.

711
00:29:16,635 --> 00:29:18,705
You found out I ticked all the boxes.

712
00:29:18,705 --> 00:29:20,145
'cause not everyone can be a donor.

713
00:29:20,370 --> 00:29:21,600
Because you don't pass the medical.

714
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,060
So I realized I was in that lucky
group of, you know, one in a

715
00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:25,199
hundred that could be a donor.

716
00:29:25,199 --> 00:29:28,409
So I was just so excited and kept
looking at Chrisy, had lots of tears

717
00:29:28,409 --> 00:29:31,020
and, and you know, it was a very
special moment for my best friend.

718
00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:34,080
Louise came along too, and me,
and, and Lovely would come to some

719
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,610
of my appointments and lovely.

720
00:29:35,610 --> 00:29:35,939
Couldn't.

721
00:29:36,305 --> 00:29:36,995
Be a donor.

722
00:29:36,995 --> 00:29:39,635
'cause she had diabetes, so she was
there for some of my appointments

723
00:29:39,635 --> 00:29:40,535
and things like that as well.

724
00:29:40,535 --> 00:29:43,685
So she was certainly a part of
that journey as well as my close

725
00:29:43,685 --> 00:29:46,205
friends, you know, because you
can't do without support around you.

726
00:29:46,205 --> 00:29:46,955
You need that as well.

727
00:29:46,955 --> 00:29:50,495
You know, the only hard thing for
me really was the fact that it was

728
00:29:50,495 --> 00:29:53,305
the first time in my life I couldn't
be in the hospital with Krishy.

729
00:29:53,615 --> 00:29:54,785
'cause I had to be at the Austin.

730
00:29:55,205 --> 00:29:55,295
Yeah.

731
00:29:55,295 --> 00:29:58,175
And I remember Josh saying my, if that's
hard, some parents find that too hard.

732
00:29:58,235 --> 00:29:58,775
Don't do it.

733
00:29:59,140 --> 00:29:59,481
No, no, no.

734
00:29:59,481 --> 00:30:00,000
I'll do it.

735
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,365
I'll do it, I'll do it.

736
00:30:00,995 --> 00:30:02,975
I couldn't believe it
was that easy to say no.

737
00:30:02,975 --> 00:30:03,305
I said, no, no, no.

738
00:30:03,305 --> 00:30:04,145
I wanna do the kidneys.

739
00:30:04,545 --> 00:30:08,175
I couldn't believe it was that Krishy
would have to learn to live with that.

740
00:30:08,175 --> 00:30:13,245
So Marilyn, who lives in Whittlesea, and
she stayed with Krishy in hospital during

741
00:30:13,245 --> 00:30:17,025
the day, and I had someone at night,
so someone who knew Krishy really well,

742
00:30:17,025 --> 00:30:18,585
but Marilyn stayed with her 24 hours.

743
00:30:18,675 --> 00:30:18,945
Really?

744
00:30:18,945 --> 00:30:19,095
Well.

745
00:30:19,095 --> 00:30:22,240
I was in the Austin hospital, so that
was the only tough thing, but you know.

746
00:30:23,010 --> 00:30:23,850
She was unconscious.

747
00:30:23,850 --> 00:30:24,420
A lot of it too.

748
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:24,720
So,

749
00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:30,840
and tell me, what was it for you, a
woman who has spent really her entire

750
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,830
life, ensuring that people can get
the medical treatment that they need.

751
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:38,610
How was it for the tables to be
turned when you became the patient?

752
00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:42,810
What was the, some of the things that you
learned, you know, through that process?

753
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,990
Well, I'll be honest with you, I was
really nervous, so I hadn't thought

754
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:50,010
about it until probably a month before
I kept, I was so focused on Krishna.

755
00:30:50,115 --> 00:30:51,195
And what was going on.

756
00:30:51,195 --> 00:30:53,925
Then suddenly, um, I um,
started thinking, oh good.

757
00:30:53,925 --> 00:30:56,235
I said, I remember my good friend
sister fr I said, God, I better work

758
00:30:56,235 --> 00:30:57,135
out what's gonna happen with me.

759
00:30:57,135 --> 00:31:00,255
So I started googling and
thinking, oh, oh, okay.

760
00:31:01,095 --> 00:31:01,845
Even thought about it.

761
00:31:02,175 --> 00:31:04,185
Myra, don't they, haven't
you heard that one?

762
00:31:04,185 --> 00:31:05,355
Don't Google it.

763
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,040
I, I heard, don't, I have learned
that a lot of things now, but.

764
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,670
I remember I was quite nervous
then thinking, oh God, you know,

765
00:31:11,730 --> 00:31:14,160
'cause the only time I ever had
any operation was in Calcutta.

766
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,070
I had my appendix taken out
by Mother Teresa's surgeon.

767
00:31:17,070 --> 00:31:18,390
Actually, that's another
story for the book.

768
00:31:18,390 --> 00:31:18,750
One day.

769
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:20,010
I think that was wow.

770
00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:20,370
Crazy night.

771
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:22,500
But anyway, and I remember one day.

772
00:31:23,129 --> 00:31:24,120
The turning point for me.

773
00:31:24,150 --> 00:31:25,800
'cause I started getting
very nervous and Oh God.

774
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,110
You know, and just
wanted to be knocked out.

775
00:31:28,110 --> 00:31:31,350
But there was one day I came into the
children's hospital, Trisha was taken

776
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:35,400
again by ambulance and she was really sick
and we're in the Resus room and then they

777
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,790
focus us into the treatment room to put a
line in to Krishna because when the girls

778
00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:40,379
would join, they lost all their lines.

779
00:31:40,410 --> 00:31:40,855
'cause they had so many.

780
00:31:41,565 --> 00:31:42,315
My Vs in.

781
00:31:42,315 --> 00:31:46,185
And so they had to go into this room and
Trish's always very traumatized by the

782
00:31:46,185 --> 00:31:48,225
hospital and she's very good these days.

783
00:31:48,435 --> 00:31:51,465
And I just remember, 'cause Trisha
has got special needs, little things.

784
00:31:51,855 --> 00:31:52,515
Oh we understand.

785
00:31:52,515 --> 00:31:53,175
But she doesn't say.

786
00:31:53,175 --> 00:31:56,145
But I just remember she turned to me
this day, uh, and I just had tears.

787
00:31:56,145 --> 00:31:57,405
I still bring tears in my eyes now.

788
00:31:57,405 --> 00:31:59,805
She said to me, mommy, enough enough.

789
00:32:00,034 --> 00:32:00,754
I said, Krishy, what?

790
00:32:00,754 --> 00:32:02,585
And this doctor, and
these two nurses are busy.

791
00:32:02,645 --> 00:32:03,665
They didn't know what was going on.

792
00:32:03,665 --> 00:32:05,645
They wouldn't have realized this
is something Krishy doesn't say.

793
00:32:06,095 --> 00:32:07,415
She says, mommy, enough, enough.

794
00:32:07,415 --> 00:32:07,835
Finish.

795
00:32:07,835 --> 00:32:08,195
Finish.

796
00:32:08,225 --> 00:32:08,615
Enough.

797
00:32:08,615 --> 00:32:08,975
Enough.

798
00:32:08,975 --> 00:32:09,995
Like she had enough.

799
00:32:09,995 --> 00:32:10,925
She doesn't want this anymore.

800
00:32:11,685 --> 00:32:12,495
So, you know what?

801
00:32:12,735 --> 00:32:15,405
I just pulled my eyes out, I think
all that night in the hospital, and

802
00:32:15,405 --> 00:32:17,805
I just knew, she was trying to tell
me she couldn't do this anymore.

803
00:32:18,225 --> 00:32:19,335
I'm sick of being rushed to hospital.

804
00:32:19,335 --> 00:32:20,325
I'm sick of feeling like this.

805
00:32:20,325 --> 00:32:22,125
And so I rang up the next day.

806
00:32:22,125 --> 00:32:23,145
I said, can we just do this operation?

807
00:32:23,145 --> 00:32:23,745
Can we get this done?

808
00:32:23,745 --> 00:32:24,440
Krishy needs this done.

809
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:27,195
I'm worried it doesn't work if this,
we just wait till we get a date again.

810
00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:30,615
And I remember the day I went in the
theater, the theater nurse at the

811
00:32:30,615 --> 00:32:34,320
Austin, the renal nurse at the Austin
came down to the room before I went in.

812
00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:36,129
Geez Mo, you are pretty good, aren't you?

813
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:37,990
I said, um, geez, I just
thought you'd be nervous.

814
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:40,449
I'd come in specifically to see
you go to sleep and whatever.

815
00:32:40,449 --> 00:32:41,830
I said, no, no, I just want done.

816
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:42,250
Take it out.

817
00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:42,639
I'm fine.

818
00:32:42,639 --> 00:32:43,209
I'm great.

819
00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:45,310
Just get this thing outta me
and take it to the children.

820
00:32:45,385 --> 00:32:48,580
So I said, because I just knew
where Krishy was coming from.

821
00:32:48,580 --> 00:32:51,639
So sometimes it takes a child
to remind you, not that I

822
00:32:51,639 --> 00:32:52,570
need, I was gonna do it anyway.

823
00:32:52,570 --> 00:32:56,260
But I wasn't saying nervous or
nothing after I saw, because kids

824
00:32:56,260 --> 00:32:59,139
like Trisha and people like that
sometimes they just have enough.

825
00:33:00,254 --> 00:33:00,975
They wanna give up.

826
00:33:00,975 --> 00:33:03,075
So they need people like
us not to give up on them.

827
00:33:03,615 --> 00:33:03,975
Yeah.

828
00:33:04,004 --> 00:33:04,725
To see your kids.

829
00:33:04,785 --> 00:33:05,955
People suffer like that, you know?

830
00:33:05,955 --> 00:33:06,675
And someone you love.

831
00:33:07,305 --> 00:33:08,385
It doesn't have to be someone you love.

832
00:33:08,385 --> 00:33:09,735
It could be somewhere stranger as well.

833
00:33:10,305 --> 00:33:13,395
We have an opportunity to do
something good and I just want this

834
00:33:13,395 --> 00:33:16,215
done then I was just couldn't wait
to get it outta my body into hers.

835
00:33:17,175 --> 00:33:17,655
Yes.

836
00:33:17,745 --> 00:33:20,085
Well, I just, with little
note there, sometimes wisdom

837
00:33:20,175 --> 00:33:21,285
doesn't always come in suits.

838
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,560
Sometimes young people and children
have a lot to teach us, but the recovery

839
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,129
for her, when we were in a hospital,
I, I got out to six days and I went

840
00:33:29,129 --> 00:33:31,379
to the Children's for a couple of
days with her, and then we came home.

841
00:33:31,889 --> 00:33:36,389
So I'd be on the couch going, oh, oh,
oh, just for a couple of days and she'd

842
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:37,530
be hopping around the house with them.

843
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:40,710
I'd had a dance and singing,
so I used to laugh, thinking.

844
00:33:41,385 --> 00:33:44,325
It's either you are in a really good
way or my kid is doing a great job.

845
00:33:44,775 --> 00:33:45,765
We just had a lot of jokes.

846
00:33:45,765 --> 00:33:49,215
So yeah, I was back to normal in a couple
of weeks and it's great 'cause you get

847
00:33:49,215 --> 00:33:52,065
sport and people start looking after
you for a change, which is unusual.

848
00:33:52,065 --> 00:33:56,325
So yeah, so there was a lot of highs
and lows, but most of it was positive.

849
00:33:56,325 --> 00:33:59,265
And to see this, and you know,
the amazing thing is Catherine

850
00:33:59,385 --> 00:34:00,585
Trish's learning better now.

851
00:34:00,585 --> 00:34:02,565
She's walking, she's
talking, she's happier.

852
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:04,140
I couldn't work out what it was.

853
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:07,650
And I just said to Mythologist last year,
the kids, I said, we've worked out what

854
00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:10,650
it was is because she's never felt so
well in her life and she couldn't tell us.

855
00:34:10,650 --> 00:34:13,620
And she's just come on leaps and
bounds and sometimes we look,

856
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,150
oh wow, what did you say then?

857
00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:17,639
So she's the happiest human
being on the plate here.

858
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,469
She's the most beautiful
thing on two legs.

859
00:34:19,469 --> 00:34:23,969
So she runs the house and we just love
her and we wouldn't change for quid.

860
00:34:23,969 --> 00:34:24,330
So.

861
00:34:24,825 --> 00:34:28,695
Just having think that we've done a kidney
in that little girl is just even a bonus.

862
00:34:28,695 --> 00:34:30,105
But sometimes when she's doing

863
00:34:30,105 --> 00:34:31,469
it, I'll say, listen,
Krishy, behave yourself.

864
00:34:31,469 --> 00:34:31,665
I'm

865
00:34:31,665 --> 00:34:32,745
giving you my kidney behavior.

866
00:34:32,745 --> 00:34:34,935
Look after my kidney in there and

867
00:34:34,935 --> 00:34:35,335
comes in.

868
00:34:35,335 --> 00:34:36,135
Anyone where Krishy is?

869
00:34:36,135 --> 00:34:36,735
Oh yeah, she's

870
00:34:36,735 --> 00:34:38,805
in the backyard with my
kidney in the other room.

871
00:34:39,225 --> 00:34:41,205
So many people can say those things.

872
00:34:41,205 --> 00:34:42,870
So not many people can.

873
00:34:44,130 --> 00:34:45,070
No, they can't.

874
00:34:45,070 --> 00:34:45,550
Exactly.

875
00:34:45,650 --> 00:34:45,870
No.

876
00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:46,790
Yes.

877
00:34:47,534 --> 00:34:49,424
See, my mom only had
one kidney all her life.

878
00:34:49,514 --> 00:34:52,094
She didn't even know that
until she was having babies.

879
00:34:52,094 --> 00:34:54,495
So a lot of people when have
one kid not realizing, so my

880
00:34:54,495 --> 00:34:55,725
mom lived to the late eighties.

881
00:34:55,725 --> 00:34:57,980
So yeah, you can survive
on one kidney for sure.

882
00:34:58,634 --> 00:35:03,645
It's interesting you're saying that that
very big difference between someone who

883
00:35:03,645 --> 00:35:08,115
has gone through the process of managing
their health through a chronic illness

884
00:35:08,325 --> 00:35:14,234
and then all of a sudden they have a new
organ which allows them to thrive in a

885
00:35:14,234 --> 00:35:16,035
way that they never have been able to.

886
00:35:16,365 --> 00:35:17,895
Yeah, she's just a different person.

887
00:35:18,254 --> 00:35:20,745
And now I've heard it from other
people too, but I didn't put two

888
00:35:20,745 --> 00:35:24,585
and two together and we've just seen
a little person evolve into this.

889
00:35:25,095 --> 00:35:27,765
Beautiful young girl with lots
of energy and happiness and

890
00:35:27,855 --> 00:35:28,995
yeah, it was just amazing.

891
00:35:29,025 --> 00:35:34,065
We became sort of a norm for her before
and now we realize what the potential was.

892
00:35:34,065 --> 00:35:38,175
So, yeah, I often say we all have a spare,
so you know, we all have one there if we

893
00:35:38,175 --> 00:35:41,985
wanna do something altruistic in our life
and you know, something for someone else.

894
00:35:41,985 --> 00:35:45,765
And so, yeah, that's why I'm really
passionate about it now, realizing, wow, I

895
00:35:45,765 --> 00:35:48,825
wish I'd known this sooner, but if I had,
'cause he might not have got my kidney.

896
00:35:48,825 --> 00:35:51,675
So, and you know, my son Emmanuel,
the first thing he said was, mum.

897
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:53,520
Put me on the list to donate.

898
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,200
I said, well, I'll put you
on the list right there.

899
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,740
So he was amazed at how many people have
um, said, oh gee, I would like to do

900
00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:00,120
something like that as well on Inquire.

901
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,420
And so until you start talking about
it, you don't realize people don't know.

902
00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:06,630
So, and then just one of
my volunteers here today.

903
00:36:07,575 --> 00:36:08,565
She's a Scottish girl.

904
00:36:08,565 --> 00:36:11,985
She heard I was doing this podcast and she
says, Mo, I just want you to know it took

905
00:36:11,985 --> 00:36:13,365
me one minute, but I've just registered.

906
00:36:13,365 --> 00:36:15,375
I can't believe I, I've
just registered as a donor.

907
00:36:15,615 --> 00:36:16,755
Oh, that's fantastic.

908
00:36:17,745 --> 00:36:17,895
Yeah.

909
00:36:17,895 --> 00:36:22,065
She just told me an hour before
this podcast, I said, oh, what

910
00:36:22,065 --> 00:36:23,085
makes you, I was fully embarrassed.

911
00:36:23,085 --> 00:36:24,225
I couldn't believe I hadn't done it.

912
00:36:24,825 --> 00:36:27,675
And she just registered just an
hour ago before this podcast.

913
00:36:27,675 --> 00:36:31,575
So if someone gets one person out
there with these beautiful sympathetic

914
00:36:31,575 --> 00:36:35,175
ears, listens today, they might
think just, you know, plant the seed.

915
00:36:35,355 --> 00:36:36,435
I figure plant the seed.

916
00:36:37,305 --> 00:36:40,605
There's like donors, but there's also
donors out there who like what Yasmina's

917
00:36:40,605 --> 00:36:44,715
just done, my good friend who works
here full-time as a volunteer, so Wow.

918
00:36:45,015 --> 00:36:45,675
Hadn't done that.

919
00:36:45,675 --> 00:36:46,305
She hadn't done it.

920
00:36:46,605 --> 00:36:50,775
And that's the thing I think that a
lot of people I know when I went for

921
00:36:50,775 --> 00:36:55,455
my license many years ago, it was part
of the process that with your license,

922
00:36:55,695 --> 00:37:00,015
whereas now it's just a matter of going
onto the website and you can check

923
00:37:00,015 --> 00:37:03,705
whether you're registered and then
also you can actually register as well.

924
00:37:03,705 --> 00:37:06,556
So as you said, it was very
simple for your friend to.

925
00:37:06,735 --> 00:37:09,075
And it is, it's a really simple process.

926
00:37:09,405 --> 00:37:13,065
I didn't realize that one donor,
deceased donor can provide seven

927
00:37:13,065 --> 00:37:16,095
organs, save seven people's lives,
which I didn't realize that either was.

928
00:37:16,095 --> 00:37:16,605
I was shocked.

929
00:37:16,605 --> 00:37:18,945
You know, you always think of
the kidney of the heart and it

930
00:37:18,945 --> 00:37:20,475
can save seven people's lives.

931
00:37:20,685 --> 00:37:22,545
I was amazed at that as well, so, wow.

932
00:37:23,205 --> 00:37:23,475
Phenomenal.

933
00:37:23,475 --> 00:37:24,105
It's phenomenal,

934
00:37:24,105 --> 00:37:24,465
isn't it?

935
00:37:24,465 --> 00:37:28,155
And something that people ask me
quite a lot when I, I speak to sort

936
00:37:28,155 --> 00:37:32,745
of probus groups and those sorts of
community organizations, people are

937
00:37:32,745 --> 00:37:36,645
always concerned that there might
be a use by date on their organs.

938
00:37:36,915 --> 00:37:41,235
And something that I found out
when I did a podcast with Donate

939
00:37:41,235 --> 00:37:46,155
Life last year was the fact that
corneas are still something that.

940
00:37:46,475 --> 00:37:50,345
Don't age, which I'm like
corneas of all things.

941
00:37:50,345 --> 00:37:50,585
You know?

942
00:37:51,815 --> 00:37:52,535
I heard that once too.

943
00:37:52,535 --> 00:37:55,355
Yes, I did hear that 90 year
olds can donate to corneas.

944
00:37:55,625 --> 00:37:55,895
Yeah.

945
00:37:56,134 --> 00:37:57,815
To give people a second chance.

946
00:37:57,815 --> 00:37:59,315
So yeah, we all can be donors.

947
00:37:59,315 --> 00:38:03,305
And I suppose the important thing
too is having a conversation without

948
00:38:03,305 --> 00:38:04,985
selling too cliche, but also.

949
00:38:05,294 --> 00:38:07,544
Like letting family members
know you really wanna do this.

950
00:38:07,544 --> 00:38:10,185
So Yasmina, that's why
she got embarrassed more.

951
00:38:10,185 --> 00:38:10,904
I'm just embarrassed.

952
00:38:10,904 --> 00:38:13,365
I've been with you for how long
and I hadn't realized until

953
00:38:13,365 --> 00:38:14,535
today that I hadn't registered.

954
00:38:14,714 --> 00:38:16,274
It's just one of these
things we're always gonna do.

955
00:38:16,484 --> 00:38:19,365
So it's also probably promoting
the fact that we are gonna do it.

956
00:38:19,575 --> 00:38:20,294
Have you done it?

957
00:38:20,444 --> 00:38:20,835
You know?

958
00:38:20,835 --> 00:38:23,924
So that's probably a good way Get
out this podcast today is Yes.

959
00:38:23,924 --> 00:38:24,855
It's something I'm thinking about.

960
00:38:25,035 --> 00:38:25,995
I'm thinking about have you done it?

961
00:38:25,995 --> 00:38:27,044
So yeah.

962
00:38:27,075 --> 00:38:29,475
So that's what taught me
just by Yasmina saying that.

963
00:38:29,565 --> 00:38:30,075
So, yeah.

964
00:38:30,075 --> 00:38:30,765
Amazing.

965
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:33,250
Yeah, it just shows you, but you
don't have to wait till you die.

966
00:38:33,250 --> 00:38:36,220
You can give a kidney now there's
14,000 Australians wait on dialysis.

967
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:40,120
So yeah, we need more good Australians
just out there helping other Australians.

968
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,770
And tell me with, given the fact that
you've gone through that, that process

969
00:38:44,770 --> 00:38:46,750
and you've weighed it up in your own.

970
00:38:47,655 --> 00:38:50,295
Head about what you had to go
through and what you were facing

971
00:38:50,295 --> 00:38:53,295
because it is still major surgery
that you had to go through yourself.

972
00:38:53,685 --> 00:38:57,165
What would you say to someone
who has come out the other side

973
00:38:57,165 --> 00:38:58,155
and then seen the difference

974
00:38:58,155 --> 00:38:59,488
that it's made with Krishy?

975
00:38:59,488 --> 00:39:00,555
What would you say

976
00:39:00,555 --> 00:39:04,155
to people who might be a little bit
afraid, but do wanna actually help someone

977
00:39:04,155 --> 00:39:06,615
who might be near them that's suffering?

978
00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:07,815
Well, you know what?

979
00:39:08,025 --> 00:39:11,745
Probably the team that the children's work
specifically with their child, and whether

980
00:39:11,745 --> 00:39:16,035
it's an adult at the world, Melbourne
or Austin, they have a team that are so.

981
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,300
So kind and so caring and take you through
all the whole process at the Austin and

982
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:22,530
they really look after their donors.

983
00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:25,950
That's one thing I realized and they said,
I'm worried, yeah, we get the room here.

984
00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:28,170
I said, oh, I don't wanna have a room
my own just as long enough with a

985
00:39:28,170 --> 00:39:29,820
fellow, but give it the old people.

986
00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:32,820
So I'm worried we will, but we always
look after our donors and whenever

987
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:34,830
you're unwell or whatever, you
always have a priority 'cause they

988
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:36,150
have such respect for the donors.

989
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:36,210
So.

990
00:39:36,805 --> 00:39:40,585
All the journey through from the
specialist to the test, to every,

991
00:39:40,585 --> 00:39:43,075
once they know you're a donor, you've
gotta, because they put you on a

992
00:39:43,075 --> 00:39:45,565
priority list for all the scans because
they need to get you done quickly.

993
00:39:45,955 --> 00:39:48,924
'cause you've got a sick person
waiting for you everywhere you go.

994
00:39:48,924 --> 00:39:52,105
People treat with such kindness and
goodness and they're just so grateful

995
00:39:52,105 --> 00:39:53,245
and they go, oh wow, you're a donor.

996
00:39:53,245 --> 00:39:53,875
They still have that.

997
00:39:53,875 --> 00:39:57,050
Even though they see them, they get a.
Oh, I see on your paper you were diving.

998
00:39:57,050 --> 00:39:57,710
Oh, well done.

999
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:58,970
How'd you get into that?

1000
00:39:58,970 --> 00:40:00,530
So even hospital staff ask you that.

1001
00:40:00,530 --> 00:40:01,640
So yeah, I don't know.

1002
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,990
You're supported so beautifully.

1003
00:40:02,990 --> 00:40:06,200
And even after you get outta
hospital, the team look after

1004
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,160
you for the rest of your life.

1005
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,710
Like you see them every year or
every six months, you hear from them.

1006
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:11,750
So the donors have really looked after.

1007
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:14,450
If you ever got unwell and you
needed a donor, you'd be on

1008
00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:15,440
the top of the list as well.

1009
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,410
So donors are absolutely treated like.

1010
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:21,660
The gold, the gold platter,
basically in a beautiful way as well.

1011
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:24,450
There's only one funny thing that
happened to me once was because it's

1012
00:40:24,450 --> 00:40:26,970
during COVID, some of the appointments
I couldn't go in for, so you had

1013
00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:28,320
to also have a mental health check.

1014
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,160
So there was this psychologist or
psychiatrist, I think she was a registrar

1015
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,150
at the Austin and, and so I knew I
had this appointment, so I was quickly

1016
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:37,495
cooked in and I came out here and I went.

1017
00:40:37,935 --> 00:40:38,475
On the zoom.

1018
00:40:38,475 --> 00:40:40,515
And so I had something on
the stove as well, right?

1019
00:40:40,515 --> 00:40:43,424
So I do this questionnaire and
she's asking me these questions

1020
00:40:43,484 --> 00:40:46,274
and I have to laugh sometimes
'cause my father's an Irishman.

1021
00:40:46,274 --> 00:40:48,375
I went to school and I, so
I'm a very fast talker, right?

1022
00:40:48,375 --> 00:40:51,435
So in the middle of these questions,
she's asking me about questions.

1023
00:40:51,435 --> 00:40:54,045
She says, Moira, I just
need to ask you a question.

1024
00:40:54,045 --> 00:40:54,495
I says, yeah, yeah.

1025
00:40:54,495 --> 00:40:54,765
What's that?

1026
00:40:54,765 --> 00:40:56,265
I do you like shopping?

1027
00:40:57,450 --> 00:40:59,310
I said, do I like, what
do I like shopping?

1028
00:40:59,310 --> 00:41:01,200
I says, um, well actually tell the truth.

1029
00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:02,370
No, I can't stand shopping.

1030
00:41:02,430 --> 00:41:03,150
It does my heady.

1031
00:41:03,150 --> 00:41:05,370
I said, I can't understand why people
wanna browse and look at things.

1032
00:41:05,370 --> 00:41:06,810
It would, I don't have
people have the time.

1033
00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:07,800
I says, um, I thought, no.

1034
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,730
A stupid question.

1035
00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:10,050
I says, back, back up a bit.

1036
00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:12,660
Now do you ask me the question for,
we're talking about donation of

1037
00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:14,430
kidney here, if I'm okay with this.

1038
00:41:15,225 --> 00:41:15,915
Oh no, Moira.

1039
00:41:15,915 --> 00:41:18,404
I'm just trying to work out if
you are bipolar or something.

1040
00:41:18,435 --> 00:41:20,234
'cause you talk very fast and fast.

1041
00:41:20,234 --> 00:41:22,754
People often, are they
bipolar or schizophrenia else?

1042
00:41:22,754 --> 00:41:24,194
I says, are you for real?

1043
00:41:24,194 --> 00:41:25,995
So if I was, do you think I
was gonna tell you anyway?

1044
00:41:26,895 --> 00:41:29,654
There's always some funny things that
come out during this journey, you know?

1045
00:41:29,654 --> 00:41:30,645
So, oh, that's funny.

1046
00:41:30,645 --> 00:41:30,854
I told the.

1047
00:41:31,575 --> 00:41:31,634
Yeah.

1048
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:36,375
So don't like shopping and don't talk
too fast, or you have a, I had to

1049
00:41:36,375 --> 00:41:37,424
laugh for the team of the children.

1050
00:41:37,424 --> 00:41:38,294
They all knew me for years.

1051
00:41:38,294 --> 00:41:38,895
They were laughing.

1052
00:41:38,895 --> 00:41:40,995
I says, well, they must
have got you on a slowdown.

1053
00:41:40,995 --> 00:41:42,134
I says, yeah, I had something on the oven.

1054
00:41:42,134 --> 00:41:44,714
So I was this preoccupied equipment.

1055
00:41:44,924 --> 00:41:48,734
Yeah, so, so they cover every base,
you know, they tick all the boxes.

1056
00:41:48,734 --> 00:41:49,694
So, yeah.

1057
00:41:49,725 --> 00:41:51,194
So I passed the mental
health check Anyway.

1058
00:41:51,254 --> 00:41:52,634
That's always good to know.

1059
00:41:53,595 --> 00:41:56,475
And tell me more, like, you've gotta
have a sense of humor with all this.

1060
00:41:56,475 --> 00:41:57,944
You can't take it all too serious.

1061
00:41:58,470 --> 00:42:03,299
You do, and I think with everything that
you have witnessed in your life and the

1062
00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:10,529
areas that you work in have always had
some element of crisis or trauma or unrest

1063
00:42:10,589 --> 00:42:15,209
in the spaces that you've been, what
has that taught you about life itself?

1064
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,280
Probably how precious it is.

1065
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,910
Like I lived in Romania for about a
year and a half, nearly two years.

1066
00:42:20,910 --> 00:42:24,690
I was in charge of an Irish
organization for kids with aids, and

1067
00:42:24,690 --> 00:42:28,350
we lost, you know, over 20 something
children and they were died in threes

1068
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:30,150
and they died at different times.

1069
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:34,260
And yeah, you just never realize the
world could sometimes be so cruel and.

1070
00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:36,710
How can little children, you know,
little children are not meant to

1071
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:39,620
suffer Catherine, and sometimes
I felt that the world, they

1072
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:40,820
know what's going on over here.

1073
00:42:40,820 --> 00:42:42,980
These little kids are just
as precious as children with

1074
00:42:42,980 --> 00:42:44,210
Australian passports, you know?

1075
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:46,970
So you just realize how precious life is.

1076
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:49,700
If you have an opportunity to
fix a little kid up, that's

1077
00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:50,900
one little child you've saved.

1078
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:53,810
I can't imagine all these doctors,
especially these surgeons and

1079
00:42:53,810 --> 00:42:57,165
doctors who must line a soft
pillow at night knowing that.

1080
00:42:57,615 --> 00:43:00,255
They go to home at night thinking
they've made someone well and

1081
00:43:00,255 --> 00:43:01,275
they've saved someone's life.

1082
00:43:01,275 --> 00:43:03,134
And so don't you wanna be a part of that?

1083
00:43:03,134 --> 00:43:05,685
Like something really good like that,
that you really made a difference.

1084
00:43:05,685 --> 00:43:08,295
So, I mean, don't want anybody be a
part of something good that really

1085
00:43:08,295 --> 00:43:09,585
makes a different in people's lives.

1086
00:43:09,585 --> 00:43:13,245
And I mean, they do this every day just
to get a taste of this for a couple of

1087
00:43:13,245 --> 00:43:15,075
weeks in your whole life or once a year.

1088
00:43:15,075 --> 00:43:17,174
I mean, don't you order wanna
be part of something good?

1089
00:43:17,174 --> 00:43:17,505
You know?

1090
00:43:17,505 --> 00:43:20,895
So you can't help but when you
get a kid fixed and you think, oh,

1091
00:43:20,895 --> 00:43:23,775
Charles, and you hear another child,
of course you wanna help them.

1092
00:43:23,775 --> 00:43:25,330
And I think as humans, we all.

1093
00:43:25,835 --> 00:43:28,924
Empathetic and we all good people,
we all wanna help others and we wanna

1094
00:43:28,924 --> 00:43:31,325
have a chance to help others and
sometimes we just don't know how.

1095
00:43:31,745 --> 00:43:34,985
So yeah, I always remember this great
surgeon at the World Children's.

1096
00:43:35,045 --> 00:43:37,535
He was run out of a function one
night and I saw him, I ran after

1097
00:43:37,535 --> 00:43:40,025
him and I just said, oh listen,
he's a heart surgeon at the kids.

1098
00:43:40,025 --> 00:43:41,915
And I said, listen, thank you
so much for coming tonight.

1099
00:43:41,915 --> 00:43:43,085
I can't believe you found the time.

1100
00:43:43,654 --> 00:43:44,555
He goes, oh, no problems.

1101
00:43:44,645 --> 00:43:47,495
I said to him that night, I said, you
must lay on a soft pillar every night for

1102
00:43:47,495 --> 00:43:48,815
all those little children who operate.

1103
00:43:48,815 --> 00:43:51,215
You've done like 30 of
my kids hard operations.

1104
00:43:51,215 --> 00:43:52,656
I, you know, you must just.

1105
00:43:53,145 --> 00:43:54,285
Be the happiest man on earth.

1106
00:43:54,285 --> 00:43:58,335
He says, Moira, he said, always remember,
I, I live by this motto, Catherine.

1107
00:43:58,335 --> 00:44:02,110
Always remember one child is still one
life and rather look at the big numbers.

1108
00:44:03,225 --> 00:44:05,565
So try that Life in front
of you is so important.

1109
00:44:05,565 --> 00:44:10,245
So whether you're a donor for an adult or
a child or whatever, it's still one life.

1110
00:44:10,245 --> 00:44:15,134
So don't underestimate the enormity of
that and don't look at the big numbers.

1111
00:44:15,134 --> 00:44:18,315
Just look what's in front of you,
how precious life is, and you just

1112
00:44:18,315 --> 00:44:21,105
wanna be around something that's
good and, and warm and fuzzy, and.

1113
00:44:21,725 --> 00:44:22,445
Full of goodness.

1114
00:44:22,445 --> 00:44:24,485
It's only good things can be
around something when you're

1115
00:44:24,605 --> 00:44:25,835
helping someone else like this.

1116
00:44:25,835 --> 00:44:29,135
So yeah, I look at them and I just,
I suppose in life, Catherine, we

1117
00:44:29,135 --> 00:44:31,745
always see the good in others before
we see the good in ourselves as well.

1118
00:44:31,745 --> 00:44:34,655
But we all wanna be, know that
we are good people, but we've

1119
00:44:34,655 --> 00:44:37,565
also good for others, you know,
and create goodness in the world.

1120
00:44:37,565 --> 00:44:37,835
You know,

1121
00:44:38,345 --> 00:44:40,325
it's interesting that
you say that because.

1122
00:44:40,965 --> 00:44:44,355
The people that you're talking about
are skilled professionals and, and

1123
00:44:44,355 --> 00:44:49,785
they are doing their role, but you've
gone a little bit beyond that, haven't

1124
00:44:49,785 --> 00:44:55,335
you, Moira, with actually donating
your own kidney to save someone's life?

1125
00:44:55,965 --> 00:44:57,285
Not everyone can do that.

1126
00:44:58,529 --> 00:45:01,140
See, I don't think, I don't
really think they're like that.

1127
00:45:01,140 --> 00:45:03,360
I just think it was, wasn't even
a second thought in my head.

1128
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,670
There's not a mother and a
father out there that probably

1129
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:06,779
wouldn't think twice about it.

1130
00:45:07,410 --> 00:45:10,140
It's funny 'cause my dad's an Irish man
and I said to dad one day because he says,

1131
00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:11,250
oh, I'm worried I know what you're doing.

1132
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:12,690
You know, you, you know,
you sure you're doing this?

1133
00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:14,310
I said, dad, put it this way.

1134
00:45:14,339 --> 00:45:16,904
'cause my dad's an Irishman, so you've
gotta appreciate the, the sense of humor.

1135
00:45:17,490 --> 00:45:20,549
I said, dad, if I need a kidney, for
God's sake, I know you gimme a kidney.

1136
00:45:20,759 --> 00:45:22,170
I bloody would not give you one more.

1137
00:45:22,770 --> 00:45:23,279
He says.

1138
00:45:23,650 --> 00:45:26,350
I'm sure we probably would, but he
was just wanting, get my reaction.

1139
00:45:26,350 --> 00:45:28,450
But you gotta have a sense of
humor because even through the

1140
00:45:28,450 --> 00:45:29,770
journey, there's ups and downs.

1141
00:45:29,770 --> 00:45:30,370
But for

1142
00:45:30,370 --> 00:45:32,050
the terrible times at
Krishy, there'd been lots

1143
00:45:32,050 --> 00:45:32,860
of fun as well.

1144
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,335
And even during the journey with the
doctors, the, the doctors, you, your

1145
00:45:36,335 --> 00:45:39,880
bears, the nurses, there's jokes and
there's talks and you know, there's

1146
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,650
miracles and there's, there's all that.

1147
00:45:41,650 --> 00:45:41,651
There's.

1148
00:45:42,285 --> 00:45:46,095
Highs and those often say these
buildings of hospitals are wonderful

1149
00:45:46,125 --> 00:45:49,605
structures of, of miracles,
performing those doors every day.

1150
00:45:49,605 --> 00:45:51,075
But there is also great sadness.

1151
00:45:51,525 --> 00:45:55,095
It's like when, I suppose when you're
a deceased donor, you look in one

1152
00:45:55,095 --> 00:45:58,395
room, it's full of joy that someone's
got this wonderful hope, and yet

1153
00:45:58,395 --> 00:45:59,625
there's so sadness somewhere else.

1154
00:45:59,625 --> 00:46:04,335
So yeah, those buildings of hope have
got lots of incredible moments of

1155
00:46:04,335 --> 00:46:05,895
people's highs and lows in life that.

1156
00:46:06,330 --> 00:46:08,700
Sometimes we're a part of, or
sometimes we're outside, we

1157
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,330
don't know, but everyone's got
a journey and mine was this one.

1158
00:46:12,330 --> 00:46:13,319
Mine was a no brainer.

1159
00:46:13,439 --> 00:46:15,361
It was something I was so excited to do.

1160
00:46:16,245 --> 00:46:19,635
And when we, we are
talking there about hope.

1161
00:46:20,355 --> 00:46:24,705
Can we talk a little bit about a
project that we both just chatted about

1162
00:46:24,705 --> 00:46:28,725
before we came on air that involves
the architect from the Royal Botanic

1163
00:46:28,725 --> 00:46:32,295
Gardens Victoria, Andrew Laidlaw,
and that's the piece guard Mayor.

1164
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:33,520
Yes.

1165
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,720
It's a global peace.

1166
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:35,230
That's right.

1167
00:46:35,410 --> 00:46:35,800
Yeah.

1168
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,180
So Andrews came out to Gaza me a couple
of times because Build Children's Garden.

1169
00:46:40,210 --> 00:46:42,130
'cause I bought a lot of kids
out from Gaza for surgery as

1170
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:43,420
well, from all over the world.

1171
00:46:43,420 --> 00:46:46,900
And having said that, lots of kids
also get operated in Israel as well.

1172
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:48,940
During that time there was some
kids that needed to come to us

1173
00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:50,680
and, and Andrew came out there.

1174
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,560
I just told, when I came back from
Gaza, one of my trips, I was given

1175
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,140
the contact with Andrew and he's,
he's a bit out there as well.

1176
00:46:56,140 --> 00:47:00,880
So he's in for a bit of an adventure and
something different and the Palestinian.

1177
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,810
Government at the time had given
me land, which is unheard of.

1178
00:47:03,810 --> 00:47:04,470
It's a long story.

1179
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:05,250
I won't go in today.

1180
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:07,590
And because I told them I'd build
them a garden, I didn't think

1181
00:47:07,590 --> 00:47:08,580
it was gonna be that difficult.

1182
00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:09,000
I'm sure.

1183
00:47:09,674 --> 00:47:12,555
People in Australia could build us
a gardening Gaza, and if you give

1184
00:47:12,555 --> 00:47:14,745
us land, I'm sure the Australian
people would do that for you.

1185
00:47:14,745 --> 00:47:17,774
So anyway, about six months later,
I got this titled Land in My

1186
00:47:17,774 --> 00:47:19,935
Name and Make a long story short.

1187
00:47:19,935 --> 00:47:21,254
And I thought, oh God,
this is getting a bit real.

1188
00:47:21,884 --> 00:47:23,145
They're gonna come back with land.

1189
00:47:23,654 --> 00:47:27,015
And Andrew came on, he's been on few,
few trips with me, and yeah, we were.

1190
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,140
After so many years, we finally
had the tender out and two weeks

1191
00:47:30,140 --> 00:47:32,000
before this particular war started.

1192
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,690
Um, yeah, we just didn't go ahead, but
Andrew's gone ahead with the foundation.

1193
00:47:35,690 --> 00:47:37,880
I've sort of been busy these
days, but I'm just the patron.

1194
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,600
But there's gardens being built all over
vulnerable communities here in Melbourne

1195
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,380
and in Victoria that Andrews spearheaded
with the Global Gardens of Peace.

1196
00:47:45,770 --> 00:47:48,170
They have their meetings
at, at the um, gardens.

1197
00:47:48,170 --> 00:47:48,740
And so that's.

1198
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,509
The, the sea that came outta Gaza,
all these beautiful gardens here in

1199
00:47:53,509 --> 00:47:55,459
Melbourne, in vulnerable communities.

1200
00:47:55,459 --> 00:47:57,410
So that's still continuing,
but what a small world.

1201
00:47:57,410 --> 00:48:00,259
You worked with Andrew there and we just
had to discussed the same person we knew.

1202
00:48:00,620 --> 00:48:03,470
A mutual, wonderful, wonderful,
wonderful human being.

1203
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,000
Yeah, he's very special.

1204
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,029
He's got a great sense of humor and
I always saw Elli in a different

1205
00:48:08,029 --> 00:48:12,229
way, in a constructive size, and I
just saw my working humanitarian.

1206
00:48:12,544 --> 00:48:13,024
Bit different.

1207
00:48:13,024 --> 00:48:16,865
When I met Andrew, I just saw the
same values as humanitarian and

1208
00:48:16,865 --> 00:48:20,075
spiritualizing Andrew, and I just
thought, wow, artists, people are

1209
00:48:20,075 --> 00:48:22,504
very similar to humanitarian people.

1210
00:48:22,865 --> 00:48:26,645
And I had never put that across, never
seen that until I met Andrew, that I

1211
00:48:26,645 --> 00:48:30,544
realized the spiritual connection that
artists people have with humanitarians,

1212
00:48:31,024 --> 00:48:32,200
because he's a definitely a.

1213
00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:33,860
Very artistic.

1214
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:34,520
Yeah.

1215
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,630
I, I don't quite know how Andrew's brain
works, but he's got this incredible gift

1216
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:42,440
to be able to design and picture something
in, in these unique places and what he

1217
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,000
is put together in different places now.

1218
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,540
But he is made me realize the
connection that humanitarians have,

1219
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,140
that these artists people have
on a real humanitarian level to

1220
00:48:51,140 --> 00:48:52,640
another level that was phenomenal.

1221
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,060
So to see how he sees things
and how it's gonna help people.

1222
00:48:56,970 --> 00:48:58,320
Really look at the core of people.

1223
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,260
I was, yeah, he taught me a
lot, Andrew, just, just by

1224
00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:02,700
listening and, and observing him.

1225
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:06,135
So yeah, humanitarian and artist
people have lot, lot, lot,

1226
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,260
lots of gel with each other.

1227
00:49:07,260 --> 00:49:08,340
We are very similar people.

1228
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:10,710
So yeah, he taught me a lot about that.

1229
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:12,780
So that will still happen
one day, Catherine.

1230
00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:15,390
But the moment, global Garden of
Peace, he's very passionate about

1231
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,895
building these beautiful green spaces
in vulnerable community in Melbourne.

1232
00:49:18,930 --> 00:49:20,100
So yeah.

1233
00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:21,120
So what a small world

1234
00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:22,230
it is.

1235
00:49:22,350 --> 00:49:25,890
And tell me what do you think
the connection is and, and.

1236
00:49:26,165 --> 00:49:31,325
In relation to spirituality and
where does your spirituality sit now

1237
00:49:31,325 --> 00:49:32,975
given everything that you've seen?

1238
00:49:33,035 --> 00:49:34,685
Do you still have a strong faith?

1239
00:49:34,685 --> 00:49:36,275
Is it of a particular religion?

1240
00:49:36,605 --> 00:49:38,345
How has it evolved over time?

1241
00:49:39,390 --> 00:49:43,170
Well, I suppose one thing I've also
learned as I've gone along my way,

1242
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,070
'cause I've lived in a lot of countries
overseas for like 15 years in different

1243
00:49:47,130 --> 00:49:50,550
religions and, and I think all
religion represents something good.

1244
00:49:50,940 --> 00:49:54,780
And I think if all of us as the
followers of religion, if we all

1245
00:49:54,780 --> 00:49:56,550
listen to our leaders of faith.

1246
00:49:56,984 --> 00:50:00,765
They all practice the same, exactly
the same sermons, but sometimes

1247
00:50:00,765 --> 00:50:02,234
we get misconstrued, you know?

1248
00:50:02,654 --> 00:50:05,384
But they all talk about
kindness and empathy and giving

1249
00:50:05,384 --> 00:50:07,455
and charity and forgiveness.

1250
00:50:07,515 --> 00:50:09,734
Everyone talks about that doesn't
matter what religion you are,

1251
00:50:10,125 --> 00:50:13,365
but we always, it's the followers
who sometimes misinterpret that.

1252
00:50:13,755 --> 00:50:17,265
I'm a conventional old Catholic nic
coming from a Catholic traditional

1253
00:50:17,265 --> 00:50:20,475
family, but my kids come from different
religions and an Irish family.

1254
00:50:20,850 --> 00:50:21,720
Exactly.

1255
00:50:22,529 --> 00:50:26,160
Then I have volunteers and people I've
met on my journey who are spiritual

1256
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,480
by going to a park and a beach.

1257
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,141
And so sometimes we all connect
in our own way, so it may not be.

1258
00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:35,460
Something like me, that's a
very, a very Catholic sort of

1259
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,700
background, but spirituality
can be shared in different ways.

1260
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:40,740
So I respect and sort of accept them all.

1261
00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:42,720
And look, you never know we duck up there.

1262
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:44,700
It could be Jehovah, it could
be my hubba, could be Lord,

1263
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:46,020
who knows when we get upstairs.

1264
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:48,210
But we all, as long as
we've had a good life.

1265
00:50:48,674 --> 00:50:51,915
And we remember to do
kind to others, you know?

1266
00:50:51,915 --> 00:50:54,735
And don't underestimate the good
that you can do for others too.

1267
00:50:54,735 --> 00:50:55,904
It's not about the world here.

1268
00:50:55,904 --> 00:50:57,765
We live in that we just
do things for ourself.

1269
00:50:57,765 --> 00:50:58,695
We have a bigger community.

1270
00:50:58,695 --> 00:51:00,674
We are all born in this
world right now forever.

1271
00:51:00,674 --> 00:51:03,465
Like one of the reasons I went to Bosnia
was, look, I wasn't around for World

1272
00:51:03,465 --> 00:51:05,415
War II and I can't look at world movies.

1273
00:51:05,415 --> 00:51:07,215
I just couldn't because
I felt so frustrated.

1274
00:51:07,665 --> 00:51:10,695
But I know in years to come, you
know, kids will go back and say, well,

1275
00:51:10,695 --> 00:51:12,075
what did you do in the Bosnian war?

1276
00:51:12,075 --> 00:51:13,154
What did you do at the Gaza War?

1277
00:51:13,154 --> 00:51:14,490
What did you do in the World War ii?

1278
00:51:14,565 --> 00:51:17,145
I said, well, I wasn't here for World War
ii, but I was here for the Bosnian War.

1279
00:51:17,145 --> 00:51:17,835
I was alive.

1280
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:19,220
I could do something.

1281
00:51:19,220 --> 00:51:21,590
Not everyone has to pull their
sleeves up and go to Bosnia, but

1282
00:51:21,980 --> 00:51:24,980
there's things you can do to support
the communities here in Melbourne

1283
00:51:24,980 --> 00:51:27,500
and the Ukraines and the the people.

1284
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:30,290
Just because we're Australian doesn't
mean these things are not our problems.

1285
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,390
And it's a funny world we live in.

1286
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:34,880
It depends on what passport you
own is whether you live or die.

1287
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,090
So sometimes we complain about our
governments and our countries, but the

1288
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:40,910
three most important things in your
life besides your health and family are

1289
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:42,440
your passport or your Medicare card.

1290
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,210
And people still complain about that.

1291
00:51:45,115 --> 00:51:48,174
So until you go to places where
unfortunately the children I meet,

1292
00:51:48,685 --> 00:51:52,254
they just own the wrong passport and
they're just not, they're not entitled

1293
00:51:52,254 --> 00:51:55,615
to the same healthcare as children
Australia, which is, to me, I never knew

1294
00:51:55,615 --> 00:51:56,964
that existed until I lived overseas.

1295
00:51:56,964 --> 00:52:00,955
So that's probably what drives me a
lot, Catherine, you know, is rather than

1296
00:52:00,955 --> 00:52:02,154
complain about it, do something about it.

1297
00:52:03,565 --> 00:52:04,555
And looking forward.

1298
00:52:04,944 --> 00:52:07,435
Moira, what do you think
that the next five, 10 years

1299
00:52:07,435 --> 00:52:08,785
will, will look like for you?

1300
00:52:08,785 --> 00:52:10,585
What projects are you
currently working on?

1301
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:15,210
Well, we've got some other kids arriving
from overseas pretty soon and I'd like

1302
00:52:15,210 --> 00:52:18,990
to get another house in Melbourne and we
do the foundation, are hoping to get some

1303
00:52:18,990 --> 00:52:22,530
land not far from Melbourne, closer to the
city where we're gonna put some cottages

1304
00:52:22,530 --> 00:52:26,250
on for carers and for women at risk.

1305
00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:28,920
'cause we also have our home here in
Melbourne and we've got another one set

1306
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,600
up now is also apart from the sick kids.

1307
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,840
We also have women who either pregnant,
who have children who are homeless for

1308
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,700
some reason, and there goes obvious.

1309
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:37,110
They've got their drug
and alcohol problems.

1310
00:52:37,110 --> 00:52:38,130
We move them in here as well.

1311
00:52:38,130 --> 00:52:40,710
So we'd like to set up
a, a sort of a place.

1312
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:42,420
So that, not a refuge but a home for them.

1313
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:46,410
We take sort of women on long term, so lot
of our women come through the Sisters of

1314
00:52:46,410 --> 00:52:50,460
Mother there, here in Fitzroy 'cause they
know that, that he's sorted in our home.

1315
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:53,160
But we'd like to set up a
place not far outta Melbourne.

1316
00:52:53,745 --> 00:52:56,595
Where we could have women and families
who just can't afford to go on holidays,

1317
00:52:56,595 --> 00:53:01,185
like carers and single moms and, and
still also offer sort of a sanctuary

1318
00:53:01,185 --> 00:53:04,305
for women who are going through terrible
ordeals apart from our sick kids.

1319
00:53:04,305 --> 00:53:06,765
So that's something we wanna grow
and have a legacy there as well.

1320
00:53:06,765 --> 00:53:07,515
So, yeah.

1321
00:53:07,545 --> 00:53:09,765
So there's always something
beautiful to be done in this

1322
00:53:09,765 --> 00:53:11,055
beautiful world of ours, you know?

1323
00:53:11,715 --> 00:53:12,975
And what does that word

1324
00:53:12,975 --> 00:53:14,085
legacy mean to you?

1325
00:53:14,085 --> 00:53:14,535
Moira,

1326
00:53:15,045 --> 00:53:15,555
I suppose.

1327
00:53:16,335 --> 00:53:19,005
You wanna be able to look back
and, and think that you did

1328
00:53:19,005 --> 00:53:20,115
something good in your life.

1329
00:53:20,175 --> 00:53:23,505
And maybe like, look, I look at
Mother Theresa, she's not with us

1330
00:53:23,505 --> 00:53:25,635
now, but her legacy lives on in me.

1331
00:53:25,635 --> 00:53:29,805
When people talk about, I tell her
funny stories and the, the crack

1332
00:53:29,805 --> 00:53:31,515
mother Theresa had, she was great fun.

1333
00:53:31,515 --> 00:53:35,955
So that's a legacy that's sometimes
not all necessarily holy and thou,

1334
00:53:35,955 --> 00:53:37,935
it's, she was a fun woman from Albany.

1335
00:53:37,935 --> 00:53:38,925
She had a great sense of humor.

1336
00:53:39,255 --> 00:53:40,605
And look what she's done to the world.

1337
00:53:40,725 --> 00:53:42,375
There's people they still
talk about to the day.

1338
00:53:43,370 --> 00:53:46,575
To, to our own grandparents and the
next grandparents don't survive.

1339
00:53:46,575 --> 00:53:51,675
So I look at her legacy and I think no
one can hit that high, but to be able to

1340
00:53:51,675 --> 00:53:55,035
know that you've been a good person and
you've made a difference in the world and

1341
00:53:55,154 --> 00:53:57,015
there's some life has come from your life.

1342
00:53:57,015 --> 00:54:01,335
So like I'd love Catherine is to come,
is to go around and travel some of the

1343
00:54:01,335 --> 00:54:05,535
countries in the world and find some of
the kids I took to America or to Ireland

1344
00:54:05,535 --> 00:54:09,915
or here and see not how they are, but
the life that's come from that life.

1345
00:54:10,755 --> 00:54:13,695
Like, you know, often thinking Bosnia,
the first two boys I brought to Australia,

1346
00:54:14,115 --> 00:54:17,925
they may not remember Moira Kelly,
and they may not remember Melbourne,

1347
00:54:17,925 --> 00:54:20,340
but they know people in Australia
were there when they needed them.

1348
00:54:21,299 --> 00:54:22,140
That's what life's about.

1349
00:54:22,140 --> 00:54:25,080
It's not about leaving your own
name and moving monuments, but it's

1350
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,259
about knowing that people cared
for them in their darkest hours.

1351
00:54:28,259 --> 00:54:30,330
And just because we're Australian
didn't mean it wasn't our problem.

1352
00:54:30,330 --> 00:54:31,049
It is our problem.

1353
00:54:31,049 --> 00:54:32,399
So they know people.

1354
00:54:32,399 --> 00:54:33,390
They'll talk to their grandparents.

1355
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:36,660
Oh yeah, those children, you know, we
had people went to Australia, Australian

1356
00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:38,069
people looked after kids in Bosnia.

1357
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:41,009
I mean, that's a great legacy for
our culture and for our people

1358
00:54:41,009 --> 00:54:42,899
because we are a caring nation.

1359
00:54:42,899 --> 00:54:45,689
So it's not about, it's
not about the Moira Kelly.

1360
00:54:45,689 --> 00:54:48,689
It's about us as a community and
that people did care about them.

1361
00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:50,100
It's how those people felt.

1362
00:54:51,225 --> 00:54:55,095
So, yeah, I think that's what's more
important is that the, the mark you've

1363
00:54:55,095 --> 00:54:58,575
left on the people's lives, you know,
that they, they, they meant something.

1364
00:54:59,325 --> 00:55:02,385
And Moura, I'd have to say that
would make an amazing documentary

1365
00:55:02,385 --> 00:55:03,225
that I'd definitely watch.

1366
00:55:03,795 --> 00:55:03,825
Okay,

1367
00:55:05,145 --> 00:55:05,565
thank you.

1368
00:55:06,194 --> 00:55:10,125
There's a couple of us, a friend
Maria Louis wanna travel when we do

1369
00:55:10,125 --> 00:55:13,004
that, just to find out where they are
and I don't even know where to go.

1370
00:55:13,004 --> 00:55:16,065
I know exactly where to go and find
the life that's come from their life.

1371
00:55:16,065 --> 00:55:19,725
I think that says a lot about, you know,
that old saying, the doctor said, don't

1372
00:55:19,725 --> 00:55:21,105
forget one child is still one life.

1373
00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:23,190
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1374
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,800
And the ripple effect of that would be

1375
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:26,580
amazing.

1376
00:55:26,940 --> 00:55:30,120
And also Catherine, the generations
of people in those communities will

1377
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,370
always know that Country Australia,
they took some people from here.

1378
00:55:32,790 --> 00:55:34,890
I mean, the goodwill there,
you know, that people care just

1379
00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:35,700
because we're in Australia.

1380
00:55:36,030 --> 00:55:36,300
Wow.

1381
00:55:36,300 --> 00:55:37,350
They took people from here.

1382
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:38,250
Yeah.

1383
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,010
There's a child years ago
to Australia and got fixed.

1384
00:55:41,010 --> 00:55:43,260
I mean, that's what the
world's about, you know?

1385
00:55:43,695 --> 00:55:47,080
Yeah, breaking down barriers and
really, you know, we are not as big.

1386
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,525
We're not as far away as we are.

1387
00:55:49,155 --> 00:55:49,965
We care about you.

1388
00:55:49,965 --> 00:55:51,075
You know, so yeah.

1389
00:55:51,375 --> 00:55:54,195
Their life is as precious as
well have the wrong passport.

1390
00:55:54,195 --> 00:55:55,485
But your life is precious.

1391
00:55:56,055 --> 00:55:56,265
Yeah.

1392
00:55:56,265 --> 00:55:59,025
We do care and we don't want
any money, want any rewards.

1393
00:55:59,025 --> 00:56:01,635
We don't want payment,
we don't want presence.

1394
00:56:01,845 --> 00:56:03,345
We did it because of
the right thing to do.

1395
00:56:05,055 --> 00:56:05,415
Mm-hmm.

1396
00:56:05,835 --> 00:56:10,395
Laura, I think that is a beautiful
ideology and a version of legacy

1397
00:56:10,395 --> 00:56:11,415
that I'd really like to see.

1398
00:56:12,450 --> 00:56:13,135
Oh, thank you.

1399
00:56:14,025 --> 00:56:14,495
Thank you.

1400
00:56:14,820 --> 00:56:17,910
Yeah, thank you so much for
spending time with us today.

1401
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,200
Good on you, Catherine.

1402
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,990
You've been a wonderful interviewer too,
by the way, so thanks for having me.

1403
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:26,430
And I hope you and I today, we could have,
we have, could have performed a miracle.

1404
00:56:26,430 --> 00:56:27,900
There could be a couple of
people there today that says,

1405
00:56:27,900 --> 00:56:28,980
yeah, I wanna be a live donor.

1406
00:56:28,980 --> 00:56:29,280
So

1407
00:56:29,460 --> 00:56:29,670
cheers.

1408
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:32,895
Hoping, Hey, we'll have the
link in the show notes, people.

1409
00:56:33,060 --> 00:56:36,570
So jump online, check with what
your status is, and if you're

1410
00:56:36,570 --> 00:56:40,620
not an organ donor and you feel
comfortable to do so, sign up.

1411
00:56:41,775 --> 00:56:44,265
Also just look at Donate Life
for all that sort of information,

1412
00:56:44,265 --> 00:56:47,055
because they're the experts on
this and they live this every day.

1413
00:56:47,055 --> 00:56:51,945
So they get those wonderful phone calls to
tell a family that someone's been saved.

1414
00:56:51,945 --> 00:56:53,055
They also get the hard ones.

1415
00:56:53,055 --> 00:56:56,535
So yeah, that's, they're
pretty magic people in there.

1416
00:56:57,045 --> 00:56:57,465
Yeah.

1417
00:56:58,275 --> 00:56:59,355
Thanks so much, Mara.

1418
00:56:59,745 --> 00:57:00,075
Good on you.

1419
00:57:00,075 --> 00:57:03,195
God bless Catherine, and good luck to
everyone and have a great year, guys.

1420
00:57:03,195 --> 00:57:05,595
And just keep an eye out for
the Donate Life Program and

1421
00:57:05,595 --> 00:57:07,035
just even spread the word.

1422
00:57:07,575 --> 00:57:08,235
Good on you, Catherine.

1423
00:57:08,235 --> 00:57:08,655
Thank you.

1424
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,940
We hope you enjoyed today's
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1425
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,010
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1426
00:57:17,790 --> 00:57:22,050
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1427
00:57:22,050 --> 00:57:23,970
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1428
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1429
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,460
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1430
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1431
00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:35,520
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1432
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1433
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1434
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1435
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