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Your brain is not at 25.

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Your brain is the brain
that you've built up.

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Remember how I said the most critical
part of all this is the brain?

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The brain had 80 years, assuming
cryonics works, at the time you come

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back it has 80 years of experience.

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... Read More

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Your brain is not at 25.

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Your brain is the brain
that you've built up.

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Remember how I said the most critical
part of all this is the brain?

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The brain had 80 years, assuming
cryonics works, at the time you come

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back it has 80 years of experience.

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It's almost like asking, suppose you had
your life to live again from the beginning

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and you know now what you know now.

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You go back and you can live it again.

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You can live it again if you want, but
basically, you know, everything, you know.

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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a
podcast encouraging open conversations

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about dying and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to life.

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Because while you may not be ready
to die, At least you can be prepared.

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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations

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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.

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We pay our respects to their
Elders, past, present and emerging

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and extend that respect to all
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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and First Nation peoples around

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Today we're speaking
with Peter Soliquides.

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He's the founder, director, and
chairman of Southern Cryonics.

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Peter became interested in
cryonics after reading Robert

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Ettinger's book, The Prospect of
Immortality in the Late Sixties.

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He thought by now, cryonics
would be widely available.

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But this is sadly not the case.

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I look forward to delving into the
world of cryonics with Peter today.

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Thank you for being with us today, Peter.

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Oh, thank you, Cash.

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And thank you for having
me on your program.

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No!

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Your organisation made an announcement
earlier this year that Southern Cryonics

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and Cryopath successfully completed
the first cryonic suspension with

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patient one from May 12th to 17th 2024.

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Can you explain what does this mean?

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Well, maybe I'll just give a very
quick summary of what cryonics is.

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And when I say a summary, a couple of
sentences, but just in case people don't

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know, cryonics is the preservation of a
patient, a human body after legal death.

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That's very important at very low
temperatures, usually in liquid nitrogen.

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And the expectation is that future
medicine technology, science will

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be able to restore the patient
to health in a young body.

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Most people miss that part about
the young body and say, you know,

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who wants to come back 85 years old?

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Okay.

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Now what happened was our organization
has been sort of 10 years in the making.

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We actually opened our
doors February this year.

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And we had our first patient in
May, as you said, what that means is

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that somebody had signed up with us.

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Somebody had passed away
and we set into operation.

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There's almost two parts to our
organization, two sister companies.

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One part is cryopath, which
starts at the hospital bed.

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and takes it through
right to the facility.

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At the facility, the patient is
taken over by Southern Chronics.

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So essentially a team, which is a very
professional and well trained team.

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We outsource to a group called
Australian Blood Management.

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We use doctors,
perfusionists on that group.

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We're at the hospital bed.

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They got the patient
out to a funeral home.

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In all this process, we're
trying to reduce the temperature.

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So they tried to pack the patient in ice,
put them in a cool room in the hospital,

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transferred them quickly to a funeral
home, went through a process where we

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cooled them right down, perfused them with
special antifreeze chemicals, basically

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brought them now to dry ice temperatures.

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And then after that, we took them to
the, facility where they were brought

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to liquid nitrogen temperatures.

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Now I say that in one
sentence, that took seven days.

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It's not an easy process.

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And there was a lot of effort,
a lot of people, a lot of

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well trained people involved.

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And tell me, do they have
to be clinically dead?

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Yes, very definitely.

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They have to be dead.

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They have to have passed away, and
certified dead either at the hospital or

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whoever it is that does the certification.

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That's a key criteria.

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Yeah, and then you mentioned there's
doctors, and who else is on the team?

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There was a term that you used
that I wasn't familiar with.

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I

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used perfusionists.

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They're clinical perfusionists.

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Now, perfusionists have a slightly
different meaning in chronics.

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This is not a chronics team.

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We outsource to another group
called Australian Blood Management.

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What a perfusionist does in those
terms is a clinical perfusionist,

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you know, operating those heart lung
machines, where they bypass the body

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when a patient, this is in a hospital
or whatever, they clinically do that.

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They bypass, they, they, aerate,
they oxygenate the blood, they

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have it while the heart is stopped
and pass it back into the body.

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So this is a group that works at
hospitals, works for doctors, so

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they have doctors and clinical
professional perfusionists and

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professional doctors on that team.

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Now, as it happens, they also
have subcontracted, or at least

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outsourced to us, very nice people.

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We work together very well.

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And what's happened is that they
do this and they do the perfusion,

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they do all the rest of it for us.

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Okay.

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So that's the process.

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And we'll come back to that more.

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I would love to know.

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How did you get started in this?

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Okay, well for me, you might
have read a little bit in my bio.

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I was interested very young.

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I read this book by Robert Ettinger,
The Prospect of Immortality,

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and I thought, this is surefire.

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For sure, this is going to be available.

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But then I turned my
attention to my career.

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I then went on to do this.

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retired and thought by the time
I retired, I didn't pay a lot

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of attention during my career.

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By the time I retired, I thought this
would be, I even said it in my bio, I

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thought it'd be available everywhere.

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You can just walk down
the street and sign up.

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Of course it wasn't.

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I came back to Australia.

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We got together, a team of us got
together, a group of us got together,

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found that there was facilities overseas.

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So we said we needed
something in Australia.

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It was just too far to go overseas.

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And since I've always been interested
in science, which this goes into

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with my background, of course, I've
been interested in economic project

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implementation, all these things.

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It was a natural fit for me to almost
do it very soon after I retired.

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And tell me about the
team that you've gathered.

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So I think that there's three
founders, is that right?

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Co founders?

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Well, there's actually a lot more
in the founding members, we're

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What we call founding members.

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We have 35 founding members.

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Now, when I say initially there were only
two or three of us, we're the sort of

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ones that kicked it all off when I say
founding members and it's a nonprofit.

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So the term is a little bit misleading,
but they were like investors, people

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who put in 50 to 70, 000 upfront.

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And they became what we
call founding members.

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Now I had thought we'd get 18.

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I always low ball my forecasts.

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We got about 35.

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So we doubled the number
that I thought we'd get.

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Those people are founding members.

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There's a director group, of course,
directors of which I'm one of them on

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managing director of the organization.

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And those founding members finance the
facility and finance the operation,

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particularly the Southern Chronics part.

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And then.

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After we got started, I'm giving you
a very long answer, but after we got

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started, we started taking in customers,
clients, and I'll get to that later,

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that the patient we had was a client,
was not one of the founding members.

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So it sounds like that there was
a team of investors, and then you

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developed a framework for a not
for profit organization after that.

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Well, yeah, strictly speaking,
they're not investors because

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it is a non profit organization.

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They don't get a return on investment
or anything, but yes, we call

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them that just for ease of use.

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Yeah.

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00:07:53,140 --> 00:07:57,760
And what sort of things were you seeing
overseas that you thought, okay, this is

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something we need to bring to Australia?

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00:07:59,619 --> 00:08:02,379
Well, there are two main
organizations in the U.

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00:08:02,379 --> 00:08:02,509
S.

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00:08:02,844 --> 00:08:04,534
Alcor and cryonics institute.

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I visited both those and I
great people work very well.

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They're still my friends,
all the rest of it.

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And what we did was we tried to get the
best of all worlds from these groups.

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Each of them does things a little
bit differently and we were

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trying to get the best from them
and bring them to Australia.

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We are.

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What we hope are best practices from both.

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That's what we hope we have
brought into Australia.

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And also very recently, there's
a European organization.

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There's a Chinese organization.

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We have also got best
practices from the Chinese.

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One of our pieces of equipment.

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It comes from the Chinese organization
and it's sort of the Rolls Royce

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of that piece of equipment.

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It's a fairly expensive, but we're trying
to get the best we can for Australia.

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00:08:48,685 --> 00:08:52,595
And how long has this process
been available overseas?

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Quite a while.

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It started back in Robert Ettinger.

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I guess in the 70s, so it's 60
plus years, 50, 60 plus years.

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00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,580
It's particularly alcohol and
those two groups that I mentioned

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00:09:03,590 --> 00:09:05,209
in the US Cryonics Institute.

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00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,860
So it's been around for
about 60 years or so.

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00:09:08,119 --> 00:09:08,729
Wow.

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00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,850
And how did the process start?

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00:09:10,910 --> 00:09:14,479
Did it start with animal testing
and then move on to humans?

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00:09:15,150 --> 00:09:18,144
Or can you talk me through
the evolution of the science?

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00:09:18,305 --> 00:09:22,795
Not really, because if you think about
animal testing, let me back off a little

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00:09:22,795 --> 00:09:26,895
bit, and it's developed over time,
the process of suspending somebody is

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fairly well established, there's still
work to be done, but it's established,

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bringing back somebody is impossible.

189
00:09:32,384 --> 00:09:35,194
At this stage, bringing back
a patient is impossible.

190
00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:39,360
So, what happened basically was it
started off fairly crudely, I have

191
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,039
to say, essentially very simple
suspensions, taking people, taking

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00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,740
them through a process and putting
them almost straight away in liquid

193
00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:48,559
nitrogen, the early processes.

194
00:09:48,770 --> 00:09:51,339
Later on came a process
called vitrification.

195
00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:54,569
They did tests on some of the people
who found that ice crystals would

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00:09:54,569 --> 00:09:58,350
form in the patient if they were
brought straight to liquid nitrogen.

197
00:09:58,620 --> 00:10:02,560
So, later on, uh, A process called
vitrification, which is what we use.

198
00:10:02,590 --> 00:10:06,860
The patient is sort of perfused
with a sort of an antifreeze, gets

199
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:10,370
rid of the water, and so you don't
get the ice crystal formation.

200
00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:12,359
So that came on a little bit later.

201
00:10:12,529 --> 00:10:16,769
So it was more an evolution of a process
rather than something that people were

202
00:10:16,769 --> 00:10:18,829
experimenting on and did straight away.

203
00:10:19,130 --> 00:10:23,830
There has been a lot of experimentation,
particularly in areas like this, because

204
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,600
vitrification is what's used, you know,
when your stem cells and embroids and

205
00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:33,690
things like that, when they store those,
that's a process called vitrification.

206
00:10:33,890 --> 00:10:36,220
So there's a lot of work
going on in that area.

207
00:10:36,419 --> 00:10:38,704
And what's also happening,
let me be clear.

208
00:10:38,895 --> 00:10:39,845
Precise about that.

209
00:10:39,995 --> 00:10:41,625
There's a lot of work going in that area.

210
00:10:41,625 --> 00:10:44,985
Sperm eggs, eggs,
animals and human beings.

211
00:10:45,195 --> 00:10:49,215
They tend to be vitrified and there's a
lot of work that goes on in that area.

212
00:10:49,384 --> 00:10:53,785
And the reason why it's going on is
because what they want to do is to be

213
00:10:53,814 --> 00:10:59,525
able to vitrify human organs because
then the organ donation program can

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00:10:59,535 --> 00:11:04,724
build a bank of organs rather now where
you have to take a human heart and pass

215
00:11:04,724 --> 00:11:06,834
it almost immediately to a patient.

216
00:11:06,865 --> 00:11:10,704
If they can vitrify it, then what
happens is they can build sources

217
00:11:10,704 --> 00:11:15,574
and banks of human organs so that it
doesn't have to happen immediately.

218
00:11:15,684 --> 00:11:19,114
And you get more people being saved
with organ donations that way.

219
00:11:19,245 --> 00:11:24,015
So there's a lot of experimentation going
in that area of which we leverage off.

220
00:11:24,104 --> 00:11:25,474
We get the benefits of that.

221
00:11:25,615 --> 00:11:25,805
Yeah.

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00:11:25,805 --> 00:11:28,734
When you explain it like that,
Peter, I just start thinking about

223
00:11:28,954 --> 00:11:31,145
how much we do use that process.

224
00:11:31,955 --> 00:11:33,835
Yes, it is used a lot.

225
00:11:33,895 --> 00:11:38,225
It's amazing that people don't understand
how much of that process is being

226
00:11:38,225 --> 00:11:40,944
used in normal ongoing activities.

227
00:11:41,125 --> 00:11:44,335
Now the process can be improved
and there's a lot of scientific

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00:11:44,335 --> 00:11:46,015
research going on to improve it.

229
00:11:46,604 --> 00:11:49,914
The one advantage of Quranics is that
a lot of the research is getting done

230
00:11:49,985 --> 00:11:54,875
outside and we basically leverage off the
different activities that are going on.

231
00:11:55,104 --> 00:11:56,344
Wow, that's fascinating.

232
00:11:56,345 --> 00:11:56,814
Fascinating.

233
00:11:56,814 --> 00:12:04,320
And so Your facility is in Holbrook
in New South Wales, and tell me,

234
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,300
what sort of process did you have to
go through to actually get permits?

235
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:15,174
I've recently had a interview with Luke
Krip, who is the co founder of Holbrook.

236
00:12:15,655 --> 00:12:20,295
Alluvium, the first water commission
facility in Tasmania, and he was

237
00:12:20,584 --> 00:12:24,754
explaining that there was very extensive,
the process that they had to go through.

238
00:12:24,754 --> 00:12:29,165
I assume you would have had to have
gone through a very similar process.

239
00:12:29,865 --> 00:12:31,064
Yes, it is.

240
00:12:31,354 --> 00:12:35,765
Let's say this, it's long, but
the actual Legislations are fairly

241
00:12:36,385 --> 00:12:38,715
straightforward, but the process is long.

242
00:12:38,835 --> 00:12:39,515
Let me say this.

243
00:12:39,575 --> 00:12:42,975
First of all, because we're a non
profit, we went in and straight away

244
00:12:42,975 --> 00:12:45,915
started working with the Department
of Health in New South Wales.

245
00:12:46,124 --> 00:12:48,385
We didn't start lawyering
up or anything like that.

246
00:12:48,385 --> 00:12:50,275
We basically said, we want your help.

247
00:12:50,284 --> 00:12:52,335
How would we do this
if we wanted to do it?

248
00:12:52,344 --> 00:12:53,615
And they were very helpful.

249
00:12:53,805 --> 00:12:58,085
It was very cooperative, and we
also talked with the local council.

250
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,640
Because in fact, we bought the land
from the local council in the area.

251
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,720
Now, as it happens, it's very
different in each state, but as it

252
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,920
happens, I need to go back one step.

253
00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:11,280
We are classed as a
cemetery in New South Wales.

254
00:13:11,330 --> 00:13:14,899
A cemetery can be designated
by a local council.

255
00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:17,390
They determine if it's a cemetery.

256
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:21,520
So what's happened is, we talked with
the local council, we actually bought

257
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,300
the land from them, it was zoned
cemetery, they classed us as a cemetery.

258
00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:27,340
So that was one step that was covered.

259
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,069
The other step is actually burying,
let's put it in that way, because it's

260
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:35,930
a cemetery, it would be classed in
legal terms, we're burying a patient.

261
00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:39,360
We're not really, but that's
what it would be classed legally.

262
00:13:39,725 --> 00:13:44,425
So what's happening is that
we are classed as entombment.

263
00:13:45,285 --> 00:13:49,585
We are classed as burying somebody
in a tomb and we have a letter and

264
00:13:49,585 --> 00:13:55,315
we've all got official advice from the
Department of Health in New South Wales

265
00:13:55,474 --> 00:13:59,194
that we are able to do that because
we meet all the conditions for that.

266
00:13:59,475 --> 00:14:02,455
We looked at a lot of other
ways, body donation, all the

267
00:14:02,465 --> 00:14:04,005
rest, but it was very complex.

268
00:14:04,025 --> 00:14:07,725
This was the simplest and we got a
lot of help, as I said, from both the

269
00:14:07,725 --> 00:14:09,299
council and the Department of Health.

270
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,229
So, just clarifying, that was
classified as a cemetery, and

271
00:14:14,229 --> 00:14:17,109
then the term is entombment.

272
00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:22,020
Yes, because strictly speaking, a
person is buried underground, but

273
00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:25,579
there is also rules in the legislation
that they can be buried in a tomb.

274
00:14:25,789 --> 00:14:28,380
You've seen them at cemeteries
where there are tombs and that.

275
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,810
We are, in a sense, classed as a tomb.

276
00:14:31,069 --> 00:14:32,459
Because we meet all the conditions.

277
00:14:32,459 --> 00:14:35,985
You have to There's, there's about 20
different conditions and we meet them.

278
00:14:36,285 --> 00:14:39,685
In fact, we over meet them because
we are more careful about what we

279
00:14:39,685 --> 00:14:43,725
do with our patients versus what
a person might be with a dead body

280
00:14:43,755 --> 00:14:45,455
that is going to just decay away.

281
00:14:45,775 --> 00:14:45,875
Yeah.

282
00:14:46,045 --> 00:14:46,074
Right.

283
00:14:46,824 --> 00:14:50,374
Now that's fascinating about how
it's actually deemed, you know,

284
00:14:50,375 --> 00:14:55,193
under the laws and tell me how Does
the funding process work and how

285
00:14:55,193 --> 00:14:56,853
does the selection process work?

286
00:14:56,853 --> 00:15:00,836
Like, how do you decide who
gets to be patient number one?

287
00:15:00,836 --> 00:15:02,827
Well, it's not really our choice.

288
00:15:02,827 --> 00:15:04,155
Basically, somebody passes away.

289
00:15:04,155 --> 00:15:08,802
You know, if they're on our books
or they've got a history of being

290
00:15:08,802 --> 00:15:13,449
involved in chronic, so they're an
actual what can a client of ours or

291
00:15:13,449 --> 00:15:18,759
even a founding member, but a client of
ours, then they are next on the list.

292
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,670
Don't forget, Australia
is very small in this.

293
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,370
the US.

294
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:26,600
So we had originally planned
one a year now, maybe more than

295
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,890
one, but we had thought we'd
probably do one patient a year.

296
00:15:29,890 --> 00:15:33,690
So it's not like they're
lining up one after the other.

297
00:15:33,939 --> 00:15:38,240
So basically it happens because
We hope they never pass away,

298
00:15:38,370 --> 00:15:39,310
but that's what happens.

299
00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:40,290
People pass away.

300
00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:40,880
They die.

301
00:15:41,469 --> 00:15:42,339
And that's how we choose.

302
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:45,843
Do they have to be a member or a

303
00:15:45,843 --> 00:15:46,232
supporter?

304
00:15:46,232 --> 00:15:47,789
Sort of, yes, yes.

305
00:15:47,789 --> 00:15:51,469
We opened our doors, as I said,
early this year, in February.

306
00:15:51,719 --> 00:15:56,459
And we then started taking in what you
call customers, subscribers, clients,

307
00:15:56,460 --> 00:15:58,391
whatever you'd like to call them.

308
00:15:58,391 --> 00:16:00,644
The cost to them is 150, 000.

309
00:16:01,155 --> 00:16:04,545
Now, everybody gasps
and says, wow, 150, 000.

310
00:16:05,145 --> 00:16:09,655
The cost is actually, typically
it's covered with life insurance.

311
00:16:09,995 --> 00:16:13,584
So what people do is we help them
get a life insurance policy, not

312
00:16:13,584 --> 00:16:17,805
from us, from a recognized major
life insurance organization.

313
00:16:18,024 --> 00:16:21,315
And Southern Chronics is the
people who get paid the life

314
00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:23,265
insurance when the person dies.

315
00:16:23,455 --> 00:16:24,305
So they pay.

316
00:16:24,315 --> 00:16:24,375
Thank you.

317
00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:29,500
A typical person, let's say 40, 45,
they pay about 400 or 500 a year.

318
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,720
They pay that money, and what happens
is when they pass away, the 150,

319
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,790
000 dollars, it's actually 200, 000
because there's some money for the

320
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:42,069
cryopath aspect, but that money goes
to Southern Cryonics, and then we use

321
00:16:42,070 --> 00:16:46,280
those funds to suspend them, plus a
whole lot of other things, plus look

322
00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:48,370
after them in the very, very long term.

323
00:16:48,744 --> 00:16:54,244
And in the process, say you've signed
up and you've got this, and approval

324
00:16:54,254 --> 00:17:00,374
from your life insurance policy, is
there like any illness or life limiting

325
00:17:00,474 --> 00:17:05,855
illness that may actually negate them
being able to be part of the program?

326
00:17:06,524 --> 00:17:10,625
The only thing that we need to be a little
bit cautious of is that there are some

327
00:17:10,665 --> 00:17:12,905
diseases that are very communicable.

328
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:17,140
I don't know whether I said that properly,
but the Department of Health may not let

329
00:17:17,140 --> 00:17:22,100
us take the patient because the disease is
something that they have listed, there's

330
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:27,699
a list of various diseases that we cannot
take over and take our process in those.

331
00:17:27,879 --> 00:17:32,149
Those are rare and it would be very rare
for any of our patients to have those,

332
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:36,709
but that would be the area that we would
legally have to say, no, we can't do.

333
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:38,130
you know, we just can't do it.

334
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:39,730
It's just legally not possible.

335
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,940
And of course we wouldn't want
to because there's a chance of

336
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,980
spreading these diseases to others.

337
00:17:43,980 --> 00:17:46,370
So there is always that case.

338
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,429
The first thing that pops into mind
for me is something like Ebola or

339
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:51,934
something highly contagious like this.

340
00:17:51,934 --> 00:17:53,378
Yes, you've picked, you've

341
00:17:53,378 --> 00:17:55,544
picked one that's on that list.

342
00:17:55,885 --> 00:18:01,905
Yes, now it may be some patients say,
look, if I've got something like that and

343
00:18:01,905 --> 00:18:06,445
you wait a certain quarantine period, it's
not the best condition for the patient

344
00:18:06,455 --> 00:18:10,835
because we can store them in a way that
keeps them reasonably okay for a while,

345
00:18:11,054 --> 00:18:12,875
but we can then suspend them after that.

346
00:18:12,904 --> 00:18:15,455
Once we get the clearance
from the department of health,

347
00:18:15,535 --> 00:18:16,665
they helped us so much.

348
00:18:16,665 --> 00:18:19,365
We want to work well within
what the department of health

349
00:18:19,385 --> 00:18:21,155
recommends and asks us to do.

350
00:18:21,225 --> 00:18:24,533
So are you still currently
taking new clients on?

351
00:18:24,533 --> 00:18:24,901
Yes,

352
00:18:24,901 --> 00:18:27,842
not investors, not those
founding members, that stopped.

353
00:18:27,842 --> 00:18:31,150
In fact, the time we
started opened our doors.

354
00:18:31,150 --> 00:18:34,826
We received a lot of applications
after our first patient.

355
00:18:34,826 --> 00:18:38,624
Before that we had about, and this is
from the day we opened our doors, we

356
00:18:38,635 --> 00:18:43,155
had about 15 and now we've probably
added, the number has become about 20.

357
00:18:43,525 --> 00:18:47,685
And our plan, I'll be honest, Australia
is not very large in this thing.

358
00:18:47,895 --> 00:18:49,885
Our plan was to have 10 a year.

359
00:18:49,985 --> 00:18:52,224
Remember how I'm very
conservative in my planning?

360
00:18:52,555 --> 00:18:53,865
Our plan, 10 a year.

361
00:18:53,995 --> 00:18:57,765
We've currently got 15 at the
beginning and then we have

362
00:18:57,984 --> 00:19:00,045
another 10 or so coming on.

363
00:19:00,554 --> 00:19:02,785
I'm not sure of the actual numbers
because we're still going through

364
00:19:02,785 --> 00:19:04,795
the process after that first patient.

365
00:19:05,015 --> 00:19:08,385
People saw that we're legitimate,
we work, we're actually doing

366
00:19:08,385 --> 00:19:09,685
what we said we were going to do.

367
00:19:10,015 --> 00:19:12,285
So, we've got a lot more sign ons.

368
00:19:12,425 --> 00:19:14,705
What is that process that you have?

369
00:19:14,795 --> 00:19:16,375
Is there an ethics committee?

370
00:19:16,445 --> 00:19:17,825
A selection panel?

371
00:19:18,325 --> 00:19:19,635
How do you select?

372
00:19:19,755 --> 00:19:20,594
Not really.

373
00:19:20,675 --> 00:19:23,644
What we do is, we basically,
I talk to everybody.

374
00:19:23,915 --> 00:19:28,045
We talk to them, we discuss, we see,
but most people, if they want to

375
00:19:28,045 --> 00:19:30,385
sign on, they're entitled to sign on.

376
00:19:30,605 --> 00:19:33,495
As long as they understand the
conditions, there's no guarantees.

377
00:19:33,724 --> 00:19:35,544
We're talking about after legal death.

378
00:19:35,575 --> 00:19:37,455
We don't do anything before legal death.

379
00:19:37,625 --> 00:19:38,314
And that's all written.

380
00:19:38,344 --> 00:19:42,665
We've got a what 25 page contract
or whatever it is, 20 page contract

381
00:19:42,665 --> 00:19:45,355
that they have to sign that was
professionally put together.

382
00:19:45,565 --> 00:19:47,135
But as long as they understand that.

383
00:19:47,215 --> 00:19:47,855
We're fine.

384
00:19:47,955 --> 00:19:51,335
There's no real ethics issues
associated with this other than

385
00:19:51,335 --> 00:19:53,065
meeting the legal requirements.

386
00:19:53,345 --> 00:19:58,375
Now, Peter, have you found with the people
who are applying, is there a particular

387
00:19:58,375 --> 00:20:02,514
trend or type of person that is applying?

388
00:20:02,514 --> 00:20:03,105
It's interesting.

389
00:20:03,105 --> 00:20:05,305
Let me give you the
demographics worldwide.

390
00:20:05,334 --> 00:20:08,644
And it applies in Australia
too, of who gets into chronics.

391
00:20:08,975 --> 00:20:12,075
Essentially, it's people who
have an interest in science.

392
00:20:12,175 --> 00:20:15,465
They work in science or they may,
you know, be just an interest.

393
00:20:15,475 --> 00:20:18,934
They could be a bus driver, for example,
but they have an interest in science,

394
00:20:18,954 --> 00:20:20,914
technology, all these types of things.

395
00:20:20,924 --> 00:20:22,245
So that's one aspect of it.

396
00:20:22,495 --> 00:20:24,764
Number two is they tend
not to be religious.

397
00:20:24,764 --> 00:20:27,475
They tend to be fairly
secular in their view.

398
00:20:27,694 --> 00:20:31,675
Number three is they tend to be
optimists, optimists about the future.

399
00:20:32,004 --> 00:20:34,925
And number four, if you
cut the ratio down, it's 80

400
00:20:34,925 --> 00:20:37,074
percent men, 20 percent women.

401
00:20:37,215 --> 00:20:39,024
That's the basic ratio.

402
00:20:39,125 --> 00:20:42,555
In fact, if you go to a cryonics
meeting, I was just at one yesterday,

403
00:20:42,555 --> 00:20:44,405
80 percent men, 20 percent women.

404
00:20:44,615 --> 00:20:47,835
I was one overseas, 80%, you know,
you could even see who was there.

405
00:20:47,995 --> 00:20:51,885
Our membership, roughly 80 percent
men, 20 percent women, roughly.

406
00:20:52,155 --> 00:20:55,044
And there are reasons for
that, and probably very good

407
00:20:55,044 --> 00:20:59,144
reasons for that, but that's the
characteristics, the demographics.

408
00:20:59,315 --> 00:21:02,825
The other thing about chronics is
that anybody who's thought about this

409
00:21:02,825 --> 00:21:04,475
area, there's two types of people.

410
00:21:04,695 --> 00:21:08,915
The vast majority say,
great idea, but not for me.

411
00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:10,310
That's the vast majority.

412
00:21:10,570 --> 00:21:13,150
A very small number will say, good idea.

413
00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:15,140
And for me, I'm in that category.

414
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:18,399
And just about everybody who
actually comes in and signs

415
00:21:18,399 --> 00:21:20,020
up is in that final category.

416
00:21:20,239 --> 00:21:21,830
You almost don't have to convince.

417
00:21:22,544 --> 00:21:25,804
Somebody who's made that switch
to say, Oh, it's available.

418
00:21:25,844 --> 00:21:27,284
You know, you hear something like that.

419
00:21:27,425 --> 00:21:30,364
Yes, I'm into this, you
know, that sort of thing.

420
00:21:30,935 --> 00:21:33,415
Most people will be, I've heard about it.

421
00:21:33,514 --> 00:21:34,465
Great idea.

422
00:21:34,524 --> 00:21:35,675
Good, but not for me.

423
00:21:35,715 --> 00:21:37,355
That's the vast majority of people.

424
00:21:37,514 --> 00:21:41,075
And tell me at the other side
of that, you know, cryogenically

425
00:21:41,125 --> 00:21:43,455
freezing someone at what point.

426
00:21:44,155 --> 00:21:45,045
Do we thaw them?

427
00:21:45,435 --> 00:21:46,584
Who decides that?

428
00:21:46,735 --> 00:21:51,395
The actual organisation ourselves, we
will decide how and when we thaw them.

429
00:21:52,655 --> 00:21:57,074
The thinking is very much that as
we are the early sort of group that

430
00:21:57,074 --> 00:22:01,024
gets suspended, our organisation,
even the people in the last 40, 50

431
00:22:01,024 --> 00:22:03,004
years are still in an early group.

432
00:22:03,355 --> 00:22:07,850
By the time we get to a stage,
those people in later groups, Maybe

433
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:11,090
in 10, 20 years we'll be suspended
even better and the group after

434
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:12,409
that will be suspended better.

435
00:22:12,699 --> 00:22:16,060
They will most likely be
the ones first coming out.

436
00:22:16,589 --> 00:22:20,760
So the last in will be the first ones
who will be coming out of suspension.

437
00:22:21,149 --> 00:22:25,269
So by that time the processes for
bringing people back would have

438
00:22:25,269 --> 00:22:28,350
already been tested and because there
would have been a certain number of

439
00:22:28,389 --> 00:22:30,029
people, I don't know how many hundreds.

440
00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:33,250
Thousands or whatever there is that
would be coming out of suspension.

441
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:37,250
We would make the decision based on
how good the technology is and how

442
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:41,550
sure we are that we can bring somebody
back under the conditions we said,

443
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:44,120
healthy, young body for the person.

444
00:22:44,659 --> 00:22:48,239
So would it be like transferring
them into a younger person?

445
00:22:48,589 --> 00:22:49,550
Yes, of course.

446
00:22:49,690 --> 00:22:51,970
That's why I stressed that
at the very beginning because

447
00:22:52,335 --> 00:22:53,835
People miss that aspect of it.

448
00:22:53,835 --> 00:22:57,004
And remember, as I said at the
beginning, everybody thinks, why would

449
00:22:57,004 --> 00:22:58,885
I want to come back as an 80 year old?

450
00:22:59,054 --> 00:23:01,504
Well, you'll come back as
a, let's say a 25 year old.

451
00:23:01,514 --> 00:23:05,204
Most people pick, most
people pick 25 years old.

452
00:23:05,284 --> 00:23:06,754
You can look how you want to look.

453
00:23:06,794 --> 00:23:08,614
I mean, that's not a critical thing.

454
00:23:08,794 --> 00:23:12,155
You can look the way you look at 25
where you can look however you want.

455
00:23:12,185 --> 00:23:15,195
The interesting part about all
that is that everybody gets

456
00:23:15,195 --> 00:23:16,835
surprised that we can do that.

457
00:23:17,305 --> 00:23:20,795
And yet they are less surprised when
we talk about bringing our brain back.

458
00:23:20,855 --> 00:23:24,175
Now let me say the human brain, which
is probably one of the most complex

459
00:23:24,175 --> 00:23:29,465
things we know in the universe, bringing
it back is probably thousands of times

460
00:23:29,465 --> 00:23:31,155
more difficult than growing a new body.

461
00:23:31,705 --> 00:23:34,095
We can actually grow a
new body now if we cloned.

462
00:23:34,095 --> 00:23:38,145
I mean, if it was legal arrest, we could
clone a body tomorrow if we had to.

463
00:23:38,254 --> 00:23:39,504
That's the easy part.

464
00:23:39,895 --> 00:23:41,864
The hard part is the brain part.

465
00:23:41,925 --> 00:23:45,715
And the hard part is then making the
connections and making sure that The

466
00:23:45,715 --> 00:23:49,945
brain and body are in unison with each
other, but the body is the easy part.

467
00:23:50,505 --> 00:23:54,185
That's not, you know, you can come back
as anything you want, basically, but as

468
00:23:54,185 --> 00:23:58,245
a young body is what we normally say,
it's the brain, which is what we focus

469
00:23:58,275 --> 00:24:00,634
all our attention on in the process.

470
00:24:00,794 --> 00:24:02,685
We make sure the brain is cool properly.

471
00:24:02,734 --> 00:24:06,365
We even insert, as you know, we
insert the patient upside down.

472
00:24:06,534 --> 00:24:11,685
In the DUA, which is like a large
vacuum flask, the reason is if the

473
00:24:11,695 --> 00:24:16,804
liquid nitrogen evaporates off, the last
that gets evaporated off is the brain.

474
00:24:16,884 --> 00:24:20,945
The brain is always, if, you
know, if it goes down, we miss

475
00:24:20,945 --> 00:24:24,494
a toe or a foot, who cares, you
know, but the brain is critical.

476
00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:27,119
So we make sure the brain is in
the area that gets evaporated off.

477
00:24:27,399 --> 00:24:30,686
Is always the most cold,
if I can put it that

478
00:24:30,686 --> 00:24:31,005
way.

479
00:24:31,005 --> 00:24:34,759
And there's a great diagram on
your website which explains the

480
00:24:34,769 --> 00:24:37,809
process and we'll definitely
link to that in the show notes.

481
00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:43,639
Now, when you're talking about the
profile, I suppose, of, you know,

482
00:24:43,889 --> 00:24:49,579
someone like patient one, did they get
to say, I would like to come back blonde

483
00:24:49,579 --> 00:24:54,495
haired, blue eyes, The body of a 25
year old, is that part of the process?

484
00:24:55,015 --> 00:24:58,205
It is part of the process, but
in their case they did not.

485
00:24:58,665 --> 00:25:02,634
And the reason is because it was a
lot more sudden than what we thought

486
00:25:02,675 --> 00:25:04,745
it was going to happen in that case.

487
00:25:04,925 --> 00:25:08,205
All the agreements are signed, all
the rest of it, but people tend to

488
00:25:08,205 --> 00:25:10,884
leave that as a last resort item.

489
00:25:10,894 --> 00:25:15,295
We would make the assumption at
the time You think about it, if the

490
00:25:15,345 --> 00:25:19,235
technology is there to bring somebody
back at any age, well then within a

491
00:25:19,235 --> 00:25:20,935
week they could change to another body.

492
00:25:20,965 --> 00:25:23,784
If the technology is already
there, they could keep changing

493
00:25:23,785 --> 00:25:25,504
every few weeks if they wanted to.

494
00:25:25,754 --> 00:25:28,485
We are making the assumption
that unless otherwise stated,

495
00:25:28,645 --> 00:25:29,684
we'll probably be in bank.

496
00:25:29,864 --> 00:25:35,155
We will work towards bringing somebody
back at around a healthy 25 year

497
00:25:35,155 --> 00:25:38,565
old, the way they looked at about
the time they were 25 years old.

498
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:40,290
They want to try something different.

499
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:43,600
Theoretically, if cryonics works,
they've got thousands of years to

500
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,260
try every single thing they want.

501
00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:46,030
Wow.

502
00:25:46,399 --> 00:25:48,059
It's really quite limitless, isn't it?

503
00:25:48,719 --> 00:25:51,170
It is because you're
getting to a point where.

504
00:25:51,695 --> 00:25:54,775
Once you start, you see, a lot of
people think about chronics and then

505
00:25:54,775 --> 00:25:59,615
apply today's criteria to what may
be applicable 200 years from now.

506
00:25:59,825 --> 00:26:04,175
It's like if I was living now
300, 200 years in the past and

507
00:26:04,175 --> 00:26:05,835
people told me, would you do this?

508
00:26:05,864 --> 00:26:07,285
No, no, look, that's impossible.

509
00:26:07,295 --> 00:26:08,004
You can't do that.

510
00:26:08,144 --> 00:26:10,305
Would you pick up something
like a smartphone?

511
00:26:10,525 --> 00:26:12,185
And what about, what
are you talking about?

512
00:26:13,015 --> 00:26:17,255
Everything we're talking about is you
have to put your mind into the future.

513
00:26:17,565 --> 00:26:21,035
If you're 200 years from now, you
would never be able to envisage our

514
00:26:21,035 --> 00:26:24,435
world, what it's like now, and we
would never be able to envisage what

515
00:26:24,435 --> 00:26:26,155
it's going to be like in 200 years.

516
00:26:26,395 --> 00:26:30,595
But if you make the assumption that
cryonics is possible, then a lot of

517
00:26:30,595 --> 00:26:31,824
other things have to be in place.

518
00:26:31,875 --> 00:26:33,295
Immortality is in place.

519
00:26:33,314 --> 00:26:34,925
Everybody's essentially immortal.

520
00:26:35,245 --> 00:26:37,455
If cryonics is possible at that time.

521
00:26:37,705 --> 00:26:41,675
So all these things come into play
if you make the assumption that

522
00:26:41,685 --> 00:26:43,934
we can revive a cryonics patient.

523
00:26:44,075 --> 00:26:48,805
And just thinking about the logistics
between now and then, Peter.

524
00:26:49,664 --> 00:26:54,234
So obviously the business has
to have quite a succession plan.

525
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:55,000
Yes.

526
00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:58,050
So talk me a little bit through that.

527
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:02,610
What we found was, I'm now phasing
out of the succession plan, okay.

528
00:27:02,899 --> 00:27:06,519
We have quite a depth in our organisation,
a lot of people want to volunteer.

529
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,440
The people who are involved in
cryonics are involved in cryonics,

530
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:11,059
if I can put it that way.

531
00:27:11,289 --> 00:27:12,559
They're very interested in it.

532
00:27:12,719 --> 00:27:13,959
They want to be involved.

533
00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:16,500
I am probably one of the first.

534
00:27:16,935 --> 00:27:20,014
What our plan is, initially we
thought we'll bring in some young

535
00:27:20,034 --> 00:27:23,254
people, but the problem when you're
young, and I know it too, when I was

536
00:27:23,254 --> 00:27:25,004
young, your career takes precedence.

537
00:27:25,014 --> 00:27:28,104
So you can't really get involved
in this to the level you have to.

538
00:27:28,455 --> 00:27:32,745
I joined up about my retirement age,
around the 60 or something years old.

539
00:27:32,815 --> 00:27:36,525
We've got a new group, there's about three
of them now, who are coming in and they're

540
00:27:36,525 --> 00:27:39,165
in that 60 year old and retirement age.

541
00:27:39,415 --> 00:27:42,475
I'm going to phase out and One or
two others are going to phase out.

542
00:27:42,735 --> 00:27:45,014
That group is going to be
the group that phases in.

543
00:27:45,395 --> 00:27:49,824
In 10 years, we've got another group
who are getting to that sort of age

544
00:27:49,824 --> 00:27:53,344
bracket and they'll be taking over and
our membership keeps growing and we'll

545
00:27:53,344 --> 00:27:57,434
always have the depth of being able
to bring people in who have the time.

546
00:27:58,139 --> 00:28:02,399
They certainly have the commitment, but
the important is who have the time and

547
00:28:02,409 --> 00:28:06,610
hopefully over the next 200 years we
have this group just continually being

548
00:28:06,610 --> 00:28:08,980
replaced as we move into the future.

549
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:15,169
I was just wondering what sort of sureties
does patient one who's frozen have?

550
00:28:15,245 --> 00:28:18,685
that that recruitment will happen ongoing?

551
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:20,834
Well, it's a recruitment process.

552
00:28:20,885 --> 00:28:22,844
They don't have a hundred
percent assurance.

553
00:28:22,905 --> 00:28:26,235
I can tell you that, but nobody
has a hundred percent assurance of

554
00:28:26,235 --> 00:28:29,945
anything, but they have an assurance
that we have a plan in place.

555
00:28:30,155 --> 00:28:33,434
We also work closely with
the overseas organizations.

556
00:28:33,554 --> 00:28:35,784
So they have assurance of
anything will major would have

557
00:28:35,794 --> 00:28:37,195
happened to Southern Chironics.

558
00:28:37,514 --> 00:28:40,725
We have five or six different
levels of what we would do.

559
00:28:40,995 --> 00:28:44,254
With the very final, most
drastic level being we could

560
00:28:44,264 --> 00:28:48,054
use the overseas organizations
to take some of our patients.

561
00:28:48,205 --> 00:28:50,865
But there's about five
or six levels before.

562
00:28:50,865 --> 00:28:52,514
So we've built that into our plan.

563
00:28:52,785 --> 00:28:56,424
We've got a succession plan that
we think works because it's worked.

564
00:28:56,875 --> 00:29:00,425
At least it's working now and we
see the depth in the organization.

565
00:29:00,685 --> 00:29:04,635
So nothing is a hundred percent, but
we're trying to do it as best we can.

566
00:29:04,845 --> 00:29:06,615
Again, we're a non profit.

567
00:29:06,615 --> 00:29:09,755
We're not a, Company that's out to
make a lot of money or to do that.

568
00:29:09,755 --> 00:29:12,405
So that's the basic process that we have.

569
00:29:12,485 --> 00:29:14,405
And as I said, the people
are very committed.

570
00:29:14,735 --> 00:29:17,855
You know, that, that, that's a plus
if they weren't, if they just said,

571
00:29:18,415 --> 00:29:22,705
I'll sign up and goodbye, I'll talk
to you when I die or something, then.

572
00:29:23,140 --> 00:29:25,220
What I'm talking about
would not work as well.

573
00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:31,499
And most nonprofits have a mission or
a vision on how they see the future.

574
00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:33,430
What is yours, Peter?

575
00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:36,889
Vision of the future for our organization.

576
00:29:36,889 --> 00:29:39,890
It's actually just keeps us
for the organization itself.

577
00:29:39,890 --> 00:29:42,659
If you're talking to me personally,
but for the organization itself,

578
00:29:42,929 --> 00:29:47,710
our mission is to make cryonics
as widely available as possible.

579
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:51,930
and to implement cryonics at the highest
standard that we can implement it.

580
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:55,420
That's essentially, I think it's
in our constitution too, but that's

581
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:57,340
the mission of our organization.

582
00:29:57,660 --> 00:30:01,020
We are looking for people to
live, if we can put it that way.

583
00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:04,079
If somebody were to live to be a
hundred and something, we want our

584
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:08,210
patients to live as much as possible,
and then we give them another way in

585
00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:09,890
which they could live even longer.

586
00:30:10,050 --> 00:30:14,370
If they could, it's the only legitimate
way that's available as of today for

587
00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:18,834
people to have a chance of living an
extremely long life if they wish it.

588
00:30:20,025 --> 00:30:25,665
And tell me, at the other side, has
there been thought given to a program

589
00:30:25,705 --> 00:30:28,855
to reintroduce people into this society?

590
00:30:29,764 --> 00:30:30,835
Anything along that line?

591
00:30:30,835 --> 00:30:33,915
Because I'm assuming if you get
thawed out in a hundred years,

592
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,440
It'll be quite a different world.

593
00:30:36,770 --> 00:30:38,490
Yeah, it will be very different.

594
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:40,970
We are not paying a lot
of attention to that.

595
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,290
The reason is, I think I mentioned before,
we expect by the time our people start

596
00:30:47,290 --> 00:30:51,069
getting thought out, there's going to
be a whole network because a lot more

597
00:30:51,070 --> 00:30:52,589
would have been thought out before us.

598
00:30:52,629 --> 00:30:56,130
Let's use the word thought out,
reanimated, whatever we want to use,

599
00:30:56,150 --> 00:30:57,340
a lot more would have been done.

600
00:30:57,530 --> 00:31:01,250
So there would be a whole mechanism
as to how these people get introduced.

601
00:31:01,550 --> 00:31:03,360
I can get into some side issues.

602
00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:08,230
Some of them are speculation, but
there's ideas that say before a patient

603
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,080
is brought back, you can actually
upload their brain into a computer.

604
00:31:12,430 --> 00:31:15,530
They can be living as though
they're living a normal life.

605
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,190
I don't know whether you've ever
seen the movie, the matrix, like the

606
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:22,500
matrix, but a benevolent matrix, you
know, you're living a normal life.

607
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:25,460
You're catching up with everything
that's happened in the past.

608
00:31:25,730 --> 00:31:30,340
You are living the life and know
what's going on for the last 150 years.

609
00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:32,760
And then when the time
comes that we have a body.

610
00:31:33,055 --> 00:31:37,285
available, that we can actually
revive a body, we put that memories

611
00:31:37,295 --> 00:31:38,725
and everything back into your body.

612
00:31:38,785 --> 00:31:41,755
There's a whole lot of ways in
which if we let our minds get a

613
00:31:41,755 --> 00:31:45,194
little bit more freer in thinking
here that you could cover that.

614
00:31:45,554 --> 00:31:48,805
Some people don't care by the way,
some people say as long as I'm alive

615
00:31:48,975 --> 00:31:51,494
I'll make my way into the new world.

616
00:31:51,535 --> 00:31:55,534
My parents came over to Australia a
long time ago and they're on their

617
00:31:55,534 --> 00:31:56,994
own and had to make their way.

618
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,830
from nothing basically.

619
00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:01,160
So a lot of people say
I don't mind doing that.

620
00:32:01,270 --> 00:32:06,040
There's many ideas as to how that can be
covered, but it's not a big issue for us.

621
00:32:06,220 --> 00:32:08,840
Might be an issue in 200
years, but it's not for us.

622
00:32:09,030 --> 00:32:12,060
I'll let that management worry
about that more precisely.

623
00:32:12,219 --> 00:32:14,910
And for you, Peter, you
personally wanting to be.

624
00:32:15,755 --> 00:32:16,475
You know, suspended.

625
00:32:16,775 --> 00:32:18,165
I'm one of the founding members.

626
00:32:18,165 --> 00:32:18,575
It would be.

627
00:32:18,865 --> 00:32:21,435
Yes, I'm going to be suspended as well.

628
00:32:21,475 --> 00:32:21,775
Yes.

629
00:32:21,785 --> 00:32:23,465
For me, I'm one of the founding members.

630
00:32:23,495 --> 00:32:24,725
I will be suspended.

631
00:32:25,015 --> 00:32:29,335
And I think it will, you know,
I'm looking forward to a good

632
00:32:29,335 --> 00:32:31,265
chance of that happening.

633
00:32:31,265 --> 00:32:34,604
Now, that doesn't mean I want to live
as long a life as I can at the moment.

634
00:32:34,884 --> 00:32:38,885
It's not that I'm thinking to myself,
Oh, you know what I will do nothing.

635
00:32:38,895 --> 00:32:41,720
I want to live because the whole
idea of People interested in cryonics

636
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,270
is they want to live long lives.

637
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,710
So I want to live as long as I can.

638
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:50,100
And then later on, when the time comes,
I will give myself a chance for the

639
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:54,909
future, as people say in cryonics, even
though there is a reasonable chance,

640
00:32:55,069 --> 00:32:58,360
but there's a much better chance than
being put in the ground or cremated.

641
00:32:58,689 --> 00:33:00,499
Your chances are significantly better.

642
00:33:00,740 --> 00:33:01,610
Than if you did that.

643
00:33:01,850 --> 00:33:06,260
And tell me, Peter, what is it about
life that you love so much that you're

644
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:07,850
willing to give it a crack at another go?

645
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:10,490
Well, I'm a very curious person.

646
00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:12,440
I've always been interested in science.

647
00:33:12,620 --> 00:33:14,930
I always want to see how things turn out.

648
00:33:15,140 --> 00:33:16,251
So for me, life is.

649
00:33:16,895 --> 00:33:20,855
Seeing new things, seeing things
happen, what goes on in the world,

650
00:33:21,045 --> 00:33:23,875
particularly in the areas of
scientific developments and things

651
00:33:23,875 --> 00:33:25,875
like that, what happens to societies.

652
00:33:26,024 --> 00:33:28,845
I'd love to know how a lot of the
things that are going on at the moment,

653
00:33:29,024 --> 00:33:30,475
how they turn out in the future.

654
00:33:30,604 --> 00:33:31,975
And again, I'm an optimist.

655
00:33:32,104 --> 00:33:34,175
I'm assuming that they will turn out well.

656
00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:36,700
But there's a lot of big
questions in science.

657
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:39,910
I would love to know the
answers to those questions.

658
00:33:40,140 --> 00:33:41,170
It fascinates me.

659
00:33:41,250 --> 00:33:44,089
That's what keeps me going,
in fact, for a lot of this.

660
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,769
And tell me, has any of your
loved ones also signed up?

661
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:49,900
Not really, no.

662
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:51,789
My wife is not interested.

663
00:33:51,940 --> 00:33:55,480
Remember how I said the 80 20
percent rule for men and women?

664
00:33:55,805 --> 00:33:59,585
Yeah, she's not interested, but she's
willing to go with whatever I want to do.

665
00:33:59,735 --> 00:34:02,745
I mean, obviously she'll
support what I want to do, but

666
00:34:02,745 --> 00:34:04,795
she herself is not interested.

667
00:34:04,984 --> 00:34:07,205
I'm working on her, isn't that not to say?

668
00:34:08,045 --> 00:34:11,645
I would love to have her there if I
was, you know, suspended and brought

669
00:34:11,664 --> 00:34:15,125
back, but she's not at the moment
interested in the whole thing.

670
00:34:15,285 --> 00:34:20,145
It's interesting, when I was in
my young teens, my grandfather

671
00:34:20,145 --> 00:34:21,685
lived to the age of 94.

672
00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:27,630
And for him in the last few months,
I remember him saying, Oh, look,

673
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,490
you know, it's a bit boring, you
know, all my friends are dead, you

674
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:33,240
know, I've seen enough of life.

675
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,049
And that was him at the age of 94.

676
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:41,110
Do you think that there gets a point
where if you don't have your loved

677
00:34:41,110 --> 00:34:45,340
ones coming with you on the, on
the journey, that your feelings may

678
00:34:45,340 --> 00:34:48,150
change 200 years, 100 years time?

679
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:48,180
Yeah.

680
00:34:48,445 --> 00:34:50,345
Let me phrase it slightly differently.

681
00:34:50,655 --> 00:34:50,925
Sure.

682
00:34:51,125 --> 00:34:53,725
He was 94, and I know
my mother was the same.

683
00:34:53,735 --> 00:34:55,485
My mother did not want to be suspended.

684
00:34:55,485 --> 00:34:57,035
My mother passed away recently.

685
00:34:57,285 --> 00:34:58,965
She doesn't see her loved ones.

686
00:34:58,994 --> 00:35:02,505
You know, she wanted to see her children,
grandchildren, great grandchildren.

687
00:35:02,755 --> 00:35:04,594
There was no visiting in that area.

688
00:35:04,835 --> 00:35:07,855
Now, imagine you're 25.

689
00:35:08,135 --> 00:35:10,215
How much of those sorts of
things do you think about?

690
00:35:10,785 --> 00:35:12,255
Do you say to yourself, Oh, you know what?

691
00:35:12,295 --> 00:35:13,675
I want to see my loved ones.

692
00:35:13,715 --> 00:35:14,835
I want to spend time.

693
00:35:15,405 --> 00:35:16,435
It's not the big deal.

694
00:35:16,435 --> 00:35:19,155
With 25, you're living
new adventures every day.

695
00:35:19,905 --> 00:35:22,735
See, the difference is your stage in life.

696
00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:25,030
It's what probably causes that feeling.

697
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:28,430
But if you're in a young, healthy
body, you're able to do all the

698
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,710
things that you're able to do.

699
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,120
And again, I'll back off a little bit.

700
00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:37,080
One of the reasons why the number of
females is so low is because relationships

701
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,199
are more critically important.

702
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:41,720
A lot of their answers are,
who would I know at that time?

703
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:44,850
The men, it's not as critically
important with the men.

704
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:48,130
Their basic questions are, how
much does it cost and will it work?

705
00:35:48,460 --> 00:35:52,040
You know, that's the way the
different demographics turn out.

706
00:35:52,309 --> 00:35:56,150
So, yes, but I've just got a feeling
that somebody thinks differently when

707
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:59,140
they're 94 and dying and very lonely.

708
00:35:59,425 --> 00:36:03,247
Versus somebody who's 25 and is able
to do every single thing they want

709
00:36:03,247 --> 00:36:06,355
to do at 25 in a young, healthy body.

710
00:36:06,545 --> 00:36:08,435
You can go and make new friends at 25.

711
00:36:08,455 --> 00:36:11,365
I mean, who starts thinking
about, Oh, I've lost my friends.

712
00:36:12,405 --> 00:36:14,795
I mean, you start making
new friends at 25.

713
00:36:15,085 --> 00:36:19,865
It's interesting because we are the
product of the journey that we've been on.

714
00:36:20,135 --> 00:36:20,585
Of course.

715
00:36:20,725 --> 00:36:25,825
And they say that, You know, wisdom
comes with age, those sorts of things.

716
00:36:26,365 --> 00:36:30,825
So it really does ask those questions
about if we're perpetually at the age

717
00:36:30,825 --> 00:36:37,915
of 25, does we ever get that ability
to reflect and have that wisdom aspect?

718
00:36:38,505 --> 00:36:40,595
Well, your brain is not at 25.

719
00:36:40,985 --> 00:36:43,375
Your brain is the brain
that you've built up.

720
00:36:43,875 --> 00:36:46,895
Remember how I said the most critical
part of all this is the brain.

721
00:36:47,535 --> 00:36:52,355
The brain has 80 years at the time,
assuming cryonics works, at the time you

722
00:36:52,395 --> 00:36:54,795
come back, it has 80 years of experience.

723
00:36:55,075 --> 00:36:59,165
It's almost like asking, suppose you
had your life to live again from the

724
00:36:59,165 --> 00:37:03,315
beginning and you know now what you know
now, you go back and you can live it again

725
00:37:03,645 --> 00:37:04,875
and you can live it again if you want.

726
00:37:05,395 --> 00:37:08,145
But basically, you know,
everything, you know.

727
00:37:08,525 --> 00:37:11,905
There'll be a lot of other people, by
the way, again, assuming chronic works,

728
00:37:11,915 --> 00:37:15,755
there'll be a lot of other people like
you too, because a lot of people would

729
00:37:15,755 --> 00:37:21,005
be maybe looking 25, but essentially
be people who are a hundred and

730
00:37:21,005 --> 00:37:22,834
something, whatever the age might be.

731
00:37:23,185 --> 00:37:23,885
at that time.

732
00:37:24,235 --> 00:37:29,515
So I'm more thinking of 25 and if
I had the wisdom I had now, if I

733
00:37:29,525 --> 00:37:34,054
have any wisdom, and if I had any,
and I'm 25 years old, there's a

734
00:37:34,055 --> 00:37:35,734
lot more things I'd start doing.

735
00:37:35,905 --> 00:37:39,835
At my age now, I'm more starting
to think of my retirement plan,

736
00:37:40,635 --> 00:37:42,565
my plans of end of life plans.

737
00:37:42,715 --> 00:37:46,095
If I was 25 and knew what I knew now,
I would not be thinking like that.

738
00:37:46,585 --> 00:37:48,145
That's not the way I would be thinking.

739
00:37:48,185 --> 00:37:51,215
I suppose it's like, sorry, I can't
help the Star Wars reference, but

740
00:37:51,605 --> 00:37:53,055
it's like putting Yoda's brain.

741
00:37:53,195 --> 00:37:56,175
brain into Luke Skywalker's body.

742
00:37:56,905 --> 00:37:58,795
If you could say that, yes, yes.

743
00:37:58,865 --> 00:38:00,645
And of course, that's
a way of looking at it.

744
00:38:00,835 --> 00:38:04,105
But it's again, your brain, again,
the brain is most important.

745
00:38:04,285 --> 00:38:05,744
You will have the memories.

746
00:38:05,855 --> 00:38:08,085
The idea is that you
will have those memories.

747
00:38:08,225 --> 00:38:09,254
You're absolutely right.

748
00:38:09,365 --> 00:38:11,005
But you'll have a young, healthy body.

749
00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:14,780
To be able to do whatever you do,
make all those mistakes again if you

750
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:18,800
want to or not make the mistakes or
try a completely different lifestyle.

751
00:38:18,810 --> 00:38:22,820
I mean, imagine not coming out
again as I say, I'm now at a

752
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:26,480
place where I say to myself, do
I really want to go and do this?

753
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,800
Don't you know, I'm too old to
just rush down and do things.

754
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:32,054
But if I was 25, I'd be out now.

755
00:38:32,255 --> 00:38:36,565
Flash, even with my current mind and
current thinking, I'd be out in a flash.

756
00:38:37,775 --> 00:38:41,685
Now, tell me, I do have some
questions here that I have friends

757
00:38:41,845 --> 00:38:43,055
and family that have given me.

758
00:38:43,194 --> 00:38:47,915
So, you've already just discussed
the ice crystals, because the human

759
00:38:48,065 --> 00:38:49,894
body's majority made up of water.

760
00:38:50,395 --> 00:38:50,885
Exactly.

761
00:38:50,885 --> 00:38:52,344
So that's a, that's a huge issue.

762
00:38:52,495 --> 00:38:54,935
It was a huge issue with vitrification.

763
00:38:55,165 --> 00:38:56,495
The issue is a lot less.

764
00:38:56,685 --> 00:39:00,745
What they do now is they take scans
of brains that have been vitrified and

765
00:39:00,745 --> 00:39:05,455
they find that the amount of water is
a lot less, almost no water in there in

766
00:39:05,455 --> 00:39:07,424
the processes that are currently used.

767
00:39:07,575 --> 00:39:11,204
It's like the water has been
replaced by a high grade antifreeze.

768
00:39:11,425 --> 00:39:13,035
It's a vitrification solution.

769
00:39:13,235 --> 00:39:16,605
It's the same thing, by the way, that
they use as we were talking about before

770
00:39:16,605 --> 00:39:19,364
with sperm cells, slightly different, but.

771
00:39:19,775 --> 00:39:23,665
You know what I mean, over and all
those sorts of things that they do.

772
00:39:24,065 --> 00:39:28,305
The only thing that's actually been
brought back so far is a rabbit kidney.

773
00:39:28,615 --> 00:39:29,145
It's been vitrified.

774
00:39:30,485 --> 00:39:34,985
taken down to liquid nitrogen
temperatures, put back in a rabbit,

775
00:39:34,985 --> 00:39:36,895
survive, you know, with that process.

776
00:39:37,075 --> 00:39:38,495
That's the only thing that's been done.

777
00:39:38,635 --> 00:39:42,915
So I can't say that, you know,
progress, but this will progress.

778
00:39:42,935 --> 00:39:44,204
We're talking early days.

779
00:39:44,205 --> 00:39:46,074
We're talking the starts of many things.

780
00:39:46,325 --> 00:39:51,180
Like everything, things start off A little
bit here, a little bit there, and then

781
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:53,360
they move on to be quite, uh, developed.

782
00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:57,980
Now, like any cemetery, which
you're, you know, legally deemed

783
00:39:58,189 --> 00:40:00,960
as, there becomes issues with room.

784
00:40:01,210 --> 00:40:04,510
And, you know, we're talking maybe
a hundred, two hundred years.

785
00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:09,030
down the path that you
have to suspend people for.

786
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,980
How is that going to work?

787
00:40:10,980 --> 00:40:13,320
Have you got larger space at Holbrook?

788
00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:13,750
Yes.

789
00:40:13,830 --> 00:40:17,140
Our building at the moment
will house about 40 people.

790
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:20,469
And you say, Oh, that's not much, but we
built it in a way that you could just.

791
00:40:20,605 --> 00:40:23,845
Remove walls and keep adding
and adding and adding, and

792
00:40:23,845 --> 00:40:25,565
we've got a large block of land.

793
00:40:25,605 --> 00:40:27,725
We've already talked to
the council about this.

794
00:40:27,895 --> 00:40:29,254
We've got a large block of land.

795
00:40:29,395 --> 00:40:32,595
We could probably have 600
people at our facility.

796
00:40:32,825 --> 00:40:36,825
Now you're saying 600 doesn't sound
like much, but The number of people

797
00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:41,685
involved in chronics, remember I said
it's been going for 40, 50, 60 years.

798
00:40:41,935 --> 00:40:45,654
Worldwide, the number of people
suspended is something like 500 people.

799
00:40:46,014 --> 00:40:51,834
That's, US is 350 million, Europe
is about 400 million people.

800
00:40:51,945 --> 00:40:56,085
All the rest of it, and there's only
been about 500 people suspended.

801
00:40:56,345 --> 00:41:02,445
And we're talking Australia of 25 million
people, so assuming 600, is not too bad.

802
00:41:02,485 --> 00:41:04,295
Now, it may become very popular.

803
00:41:04,455 --> 00:41:09,075
If it becomes very popular, we can still
expand up, we can expand across, but we

804
00:41:09,075 --> 00:41:11,365
can cover 600 people if we needed to.

805
00:41:11,495 --> 00:41:13,804
As I said, our plan is
to suspend one a year.

806
00:41:14,075 --> 00:41:16,365
So, you know, you can just
imagine how long it'll take

807
00:41:16,365 --> 00:41:18,195
for 600 people to be there.

808
00:41:18,485 --> 00:41:18,895
Yeah.

809
00:41:18,895 --> 00:41:19,335
Yeah.

810
00:41:19,405 --> 00:41:23,335
And I'm assuming the infrastructure
required, you know, with

811
00:41:23,345 --> 00:41:25,575
generators and backup of power.

812
00:41:25,575 --> 00:41:26,255
Nothing.

813
00:41:26,335 --> 00:41:27,805
Not needed.

814
00:41:27,885 --> 00:41:28,625
Oh, really?

815
00:41:29,025 --> 00:41:30,915
Yeah, here's what people mistake.

816
00:41:31,005 --> 00:41:34,105
We don't need, if the power were to go
down for two months, three months, it

817
00:41:34,115 --> 00:41:35,875
wouldn't make any difference to us at all.

818
00:41:35,905 --> 00:41:39,165
Other than we, in the night, we
might not have lights or something,

819
00:41:39,605 --> 00:41:41,254
but uh, none of that's needed.

820
00:41:41,485 --> 00:41:43,515
All you need is liquid nitrogen.

821
00:41:44,535 --> 00:41:48,545
Particularly one of the reasons we picked
Holbrook was, it was on the Hume Highway

822
00:41:48,545 --> 00:41:50,345
and the main liquid nitrogen routes.

823
00:41:50,655 --> 00:41:51,795
We're in that area.

824
00:41:52,125 --> 00:41:56,965
What basically happens is a truck comes
in every couple of weeks, tops up the

825
00:41:56,965 --> 00:42:01,075
cylinder, the cryostat, and that's
it stays for another couple of weeks.

826
00:42:01,075 --> 00:42:04,225
Now, when we have more cryostats,
it may be a little bit more

827
00:42:04,225 --> 00:42:08,495
sophisticated what we set up, but
basically that's what would happen.

828
00:42:08,705 --> 00:42:11,665
So if the power goes off, it
makes no difference to us.

829
00:42:11,735 --> 00:42:14,725
In fact, the cryopath, the
piece that goes from the.

830
00:42:14,810 --> 00:42:20,320
Patient to the facility is very, very,
very high tech at the facility itself.

831
00:42:20,350 --> 00:42:21,660
It's very low tech.

832
00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:25,280
And that's one of the reasons why
the costs are so low at the facility.

833
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:29,900
So we can keep things it's essentially
the cost is liquid nitrogen cost.

834
00:42:30,259 --> 00:42:33,610
So that's why your overheads
moving forward are very minimal.

835
00:42:34,070 --> 00:42:39,960
Very minimal of the 150, 000 that I
said, and I'm going to, it's a complex

836
00:42:39,980 --> 00:42:46,409
mathematical formulation, but basically
a hundred to 120, 000 goes into a

837
00:42:46,409 --> 00:42:48,279
sort of a truck, like a trust fund.

838
00:42:48,949 --> 00:42:52,659
And what we do is we keep those
funds and we invest those funds.

839
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:58,170
Whatever long term secure
market type rates we say we can

840
00:42:58,170 --> 00:43:00,030
get about being conservative.

841
00:43:00,030 --> 00:43:04,000
I say about 3 percent after inflation,
I'm always very conservative.

842
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,070
We can get more and that gives
us about three to 4, 000 a year.

843
00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:11,569
The cost of liquid nitrogen
again, allowing for inflation is

844
00:43:11,569 --> 00:43:13,980
about 2000 per patient, two five.

845
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,530
So that can continue for almost
forever assuming what liquid

846
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:20,150
nitrogen is from the air anyway.

847
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:21,630
So that's not hard to get.

848
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,440
in the end.

849
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,540
So the costs are essentially very low.

850
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,380
There is some overheads, but the
overheads is a caretaker who looks

851
00:43:28,380 --> 00:43:29,940
in the place every now and then.

852
00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:32,950
It's basically to be there
when there's a delivery.

853
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:38,750
And tell me with being a not for profit
organization, I'm assuming annual

854
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:41,530
reports will be published annually.

855
00:43:41,879 --> 00:43:44,229
We have annual, we submit our tax reports.

856
00:43:44,229 --> 00:43:47,959
We give all our members an annual
report of our finances, where we

857
00:43:47,959 --> 00:43:49,880
are, what we're doing, all the rest.

858
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,280
We have a members meeting,
but they're not published.

859
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:53,140
Externally.

860
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:57,050
If somebody really wanted to see them,
we don't mind sending them out as well.

861
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:58,090
There's nothing in them.

862
00:43:58,180 --> 00:44:02,550
They're either tax officers or all
our members have access to them.

863
00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:06,830
We would, you know, we might want to be a
little bit careful because it might state

864
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,670
things in there, which gives membership
details, which we're always very cautious

865
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:14,790
of, but basically there's nothing
that's very hidden in our organization.

866
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:18,480
If I can put it that way, any member
can ask for anything and we'll

867
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,940
give it to the member particularly.

868
00:44:20,119 --> 00:44:23,885
And how does Someone expressed
interest in the suspension process.

869
00:44:24,115 --> 00:44:26,205
If they want to be a
subscriber, essentially they

870
00:44:26,205 --> 00:44:28,155
send me or somebody an email.

871
00:44:28,315 --> 00:44:30,055
That's how almost all of them start.

872
00:44:30,375 --> 00:44:34,275
They send an email and they say to us, you
know, we're interested in joining, give us

873
00:44:34,284 --> 00:44:36,445
some information, send us the agreements.

874
00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:38,034
And I go through the process.

875
00:44:38,034 --> 00:44:41,494
The process is first of all, you
become a subscriber, then we work

876
00:44:41,494 --> 00:44:43,415
with you to get life insurance.

877
00:44:43,605 --> 00:44:45,225
Then we sign the agreements.

878
00:44:45,435 --> 00:44:47,895
And at any point in time, you
can ask a million questions.

879
00:44:47,895 --> 00:44:50,385
If you're off, there's
no problem, big decision.

880
00:44:50,385 --> 00:44:51,625
So don't jump into it.

881
00:44:51,885 --> 00:44:54,895
And then at the very end, they
sign all this up and that's it.

882
00:44:54,895 --> 00:44:55,775
They become a member.

883
00:44:55,975 --> 00:44:59,520
Now, as I said, It's not like
a thousand people flock to us.

884
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:05,210
It's a very small group that basically
join us, but it's not a difficult process.

885
00:45:05,350 --> 00:45:08,859
We don't vet for any reason
because there's no reason to.

886
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:12,869
The one thing that we're a
little bit cautious of is that if

887
00:45:12,869 --> 00:45:14,430
somebody would have ring me up now.

888
00:45:14,715 --> 00:45:17,815
And say, my mother's dying, I
want you to do blah, blah, blah.

889
00:45:17,855 --> 00:45:19,855
And they're not a member,
they're not a subscriber.

890
00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:22,085
We're very cautious about that group.

891
00:45:22,245 --> 00:45:25,895
We're not people who are
trying to approach people in

892
00:45:25,895 --> 00:45:27,824
vulnerable type situations.

893
00:45:28,195 --> 00:45:31,674
Every one of our members is somebody
who's made a decision over time.

894
00:45:31,925 --> 00:45:34,435
They've been interested in
cryonics or they've done something.

895
00:45:34,635 --> 00:45:36,189
They've made it when they're in crisis.

896
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:39,620
Good frame of mind, and they're
planning for their future.

897
00:45:39,850 --> 00:45:43,920
We don't want to feel like we're,
you know, that somebody's, you know,

898
00:45:44,020 --> 00:45:46,230
obviously a very difficult situation.

899
00:45:46,420 --> 00:45:50,220
If, say, your mother, father, or
somebody's passing away, we don't want,

900
00:45:50,290 --> 00:45:52,720
we normally don't take those patients on.

901
00:45:53,230 --> 00:45:57,470
We want to have an association with
cryonics and an association with us.

902
00:45:57,630 --> 00:46:01,800
We don't want to feel like we're preying
on anybody in those difficult situations.

903
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:06,090
Typically, most cryonics organizations
do not take people in that situation.

904
00:46:06,330 --> 00:46:09,066
It's interesting because that was
sort of going to lead to my next

905
00:46:09,066 --> 00:46:12,500
question about the fact that, you
know, you're very keen on being

906
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:14,540
suspended, but your wife isn't so keen.

907
00:46:15,250 --> 00:46:18,695
And, and how, Do families
navigate that process?

908
00:46:18,975 --> 00:46:22,615
I'm assuming those conversations
are had over a long period of time,

909
00:46:22,615 --> 00:46:24,265
like any wishes for end of life.

910
00:46:24,755 --> 00:46:26,915
Yes, that's typically what happens.

911
00:46:27,135 --> 00:46:33,854
Now, in some situations, uh, we
ask for a next of kin agreement.

912
00:46:34,635 --> 00:46:38,245
So that the next of kin signs
off and says, yes, uh, let's

913
00:46:38,245 --> 00:46:39,875
say it's a wife next of kin.

914
00:46:40,085 --> 00:46:41,965
The husband wants to be suspended.

915
00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:45,554
The reason we ask for that is
that, and this is from overseas

916
00:46:45,554 --> 00:46:50,695
experience, that a lot of people
might say yes during the lifetime.

917
00:46:50,695 --> 00:46:54,955
And then when the final situation comes,
perhaps they have their own reasons,

918
00:46:54,955 --> 00:46:56,844
their own religious, whatever it is.

919
00:46:57,035 --> 00:47:01,655
And, I don't know whether you know the
law, but once a patient dies, the next of

920
00:47:01,665 --> 00:47:04,135
kin has almost absolute power on the body.

921
00:47:04,185 --> 00:47:07,615
The will a little bit, but the next
of kin almost has absolute power.

922
00:47:08,165 --> 00:47:12,184
So in those situations, we ask the
next of kin to sign off an agreement

923
00:47:12,185 --> 00:47:13,915
saying that they have agreed to this.

924
00:47:14,114 --> 00:47:18,115
It's not something that they can
change their mind later on, because

925
00:47:18,115 --> 00:47:19,325
we know what the patient wanted.

926
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:21,800
Do we know what the patient
wanted during their life?

927
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,150
So we have those next of kin
agreements in those specific situations

928
00:47:26,350 --> 00:47:28,480
where there may be some doubt.

929
00:47:28,690 --> 00:47:30,110
In fact, we ask for most people.

930
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:33,250
Because I assume it would be,
you know, action stations as soon

931
00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:34,450
as you know that they've died.

932
00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:35,140
And

933
00:47:35,940 --> 00:47:38,560
getting involved straight
away in an outlay of money and

934
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:40,240
contracting everyone immediately.

935
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:40,800
Yes.

936
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,010
There's a lot that goes on
and we have a very short time.

937
00:47:44,370 --> 00:47:49,640
If we get into arguments at the hospital
bed and into which we won't win.

938
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,379
But if we have all this paperwork in
place, paperwork also acts as a moral

939
00:47:54,419 --> 00:47:58,780
strength because we can say, again,
I'm giving a wife husband example.

940
00:47:58,790 --> 00:48:01,030
We can say the wife, look,
you did agree to this.

941
00:48:01,390 --> 00:48:03,389
This is what your husband really wanted.

942
00:48:03,649 --> 00:48:04,650
Do you really want to go?

943
00:48:04,795 --> 00:48:06,315
changed the decision now.

944
00:48:06,525 --> 00:48:10,555
Now that happens and it
happens infrequently in the U.

945
00:48:10,555 --> 00:48:10,745
S.

946
00:48:10,745 --> 00:48:11,975
That's why they have all these.

947
00:48:12,245 --> 00:48:13,754
Now, a lot of people in the U.

948
00:48:13,754 --> 00:48:14,124
S.

949
00:48:14,365 --> 00:48:17,844
There's one particular story where
the next of kin were actually the

950
00:48:17,855 --> 00:48:21,794
sons and the sons were crying that
their father never really wanted this.

951
00:48:21,994 --> 00:48:23,975
So they said, All right,
we'll give the money back.

952
00:48:24,185 --> 00:48:25,385
And you want the body back?

953
00:48:25,385 --> 00:48:25,845
No, no, no.

954
00:48:25,845 --> 00:48:28,315
They're only looking for the
money to get the money back.

955
00:48:28,345 --> 00:48:29,725
That's the other side of it, too.

956
00:48:30,175 --> 00:48:33,260
You know, they were crying in the
courtroom that You know, their

957
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:36,650
poor father had died and he never
wanted this, et cetera, et cetera.

958
00:48:37,590 --> 00:48:41,270
You know, again, the next of kin does
have a lot of decision making power.

959
00:48:41,389 --> 00:48:45,650
I can see why it's so important to
have those conversations early and

960
00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:50,920
making sure like any end of life wish,
you communicate that to your family

961
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,260
and people know what your wishes are.

962
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:53,090
Yeah.

963
00:48:53,390 --> 00:48:57,310
But the thing about it is, and I think you
would appreciate it too, everybody does.

964
00:48:58,170 --> 00:49:00,710
At that time, it's a
very stressful situation.

965
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,820
It's stressful for, next
of kin in particular.

966
00:49:04,020 --> 00:49:07,770
They may flip into a mode
that wasn't their normal mode.

967
00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:11,460
So even though you might've had months
and months of those conversations,

968
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:12,729
it may not be how they are.

969
00:49:12,769 --> 00:49:13,869
And we understand it.

970
00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:15,190
It's not like we don't understand it.

971
00:49:15,269 --> 00:49:17,409
A lot of us have been
through this ourselves too.

972
00:49:17,660 --> 00:49:19,880
I mean, with family members, et cetera.

973
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:23,200
So we, we understand it's a very
difficult situation and there's a

974
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,900
vulnerability in that situation,
which we try not to take advantage of.

975
00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:27,570
So.

976
00:49:28,205 --> 00:49:30,475
You know, when you fully
understand it, it's difficult.

977
00:49:30,535 --> 00:49:32,375
Death is difficult for everybody.

978
00:49:32,785 --> 00:49:37,255
Death is difficult, regardless of
what choice that you make, you know,

979
00:49:38,255 --> 00:49:42,905
and tell me Peter, because this is a
new technology, certainly new to me.

980
00:49:43,195 --> 00:49:46,844
What is the appropriate
terminology that we should use?

981
00:49:46,844 --> 00:49:50,035
You know, we, We use the word
thaw, but I'm assuming that's

982
00:49:50,035 --> 00:49:50,995
not appropriate whatsoever.

983
00:49:51,355 --> 00:49:51,465
We

984
00:49:51,465 --> 00:49:57,615
normally say revival or, or deanimated,
something like that, but only because

985
00:49:57,844 --> 00:50:01,205
they're not really frozen in the
sense of frozen, like people think

986
00:50:01,205 --> 00:50:03,725
frozen in water and things like that.

987
00:50:03,965 --> 00:50:08,204
They're vitrified, which is a slightly
different process than straight freezing.

988
00:50:08,485 --> 00:50:11,855
They're also in liquid nitrogen,
which is way below anything that you

989
00:50:11,855 --> 00:50:13,875
would think about as being freezing.

990
00:50:14,155 --> 00:50:16,225
So we normally use revival.

991
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:19,270
We normally use cryonics
rather than cryogenics.

992
00:50:19,470 --> 00:50:23,930
Cryogenics is the more general science
that takes into account metals at low

993
00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:28,209
temperatures, biological material,
anything that's at very low temperatures

994
00:50:28,210 --> 00:50:30,120
falls into the category of cryogenics.

995
00:50:30,380 --> 00:50:34,200
Cryonics is sort of the subset of that,
which has to do with what we're doing.

996
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,490
So that's, that's how we approach it, but
it's too, not such a mainstream area that.

997
00:50:39,575 --> 00:50:42,765
The language has been understood
by everybody straight away.

998
00:50:42,765 --> 00:50:45,855
But the people within cryonics is
that's how they tend to talk about

999
00:50:46,035 --> 00:50:46,085
it.

1000
00:50:46,205 --> 00:50:48,535
And suspension is the correct term.

1001
00:50:49,045 --> 00:50:50,805
We use the term suspension.

1002
00:50:51,025 --> 00:50:52,155
There's a lot of other terms.

1003
00:50:52,314 --> 00:50:56,514
Frozen is what is normally, again,
the popular way of saying it because

1004
00:50:56,515 --> 00:51:00,824
people think, and in a sense you are
in a very vague sense, but it's not

1005
00:51:00,824 --> 00:51:02,695
strictly a suspension is what we call it.

1006
00:51:02,910 --> 00:51:07,310
You can almost say you're put into
a sleep, hopefully without any

1007
00:51:07,310 --> 00:51:09,840
guarantees, you wake up 200 years later.

1008
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,380
That's the whole idea of
what chronics is about.

1009
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:13,160
It's interesting.

1010
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,749
You say that, you know, you're not a
religion, but it certainly does take a

1011
00:51:17,749 --> 00:51:20,319
lot of faith, doesn't it, in science?

1012
00:51:20,879 --> 00:51:21,930
Yes, it does.

1013
00:51:21,949 --> 00:51:24,100
It is a sort of a faith in science.

1014
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:28,650
Yes, I, I'll have to say it that
way, that you have to assume that all

1015
00:51:28,650 --> 00:51:33,229
the things that are going on now in
science are going to develop and a lot

1016
00:51:33,230 --> 00:51:36,160
more new things are going to develop
that are going to make it possible.

1017
00:51:36,589 --> 00:51:42,460
But again, All we're saying is there is
a reasonable chance, again, comparing

1018
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:44,720
with being put underground, buried.

1019
00:51:44,940 --> 00:51:46,530
Think about what the chances are there.

1020
00:51:46,530 --> 00:51:49,330
There's zero chance versus
a reasonable chance.

1021
00:51:49,450 --> 00:51:51,970
And people are willing to
take the reasonable chance.

1022
00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:57,489
And let me add one side thing too, that
people sort of feel like the money's lost.

1023
00:51:57,769 --> 00:51:59,940
The money is not really lost.

1024
00:51:59,950 --> 00:52:03,890
The money's in there looking after
them that time and will be used.

1025
00:52:04,285 --> 00:52:09,355
At the time that they can be brought
back to finance the bringing back.

1026
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:11,100
of that patient as well.

1027
00:52:11,130 --> 00:52:14,870
Now you could argue if they're never
brought back what happens, but maybe

1028
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:18,490
it might not matter to people in
500 years what happened to the 150,

1029
00:52:18,580 --> 00:52:21,400
000 that they gave at this time.

1030
00:52:21,489 --> 00:52:22,939
I don't think it's going
to be top of their mind.

1031
00:52:23,090 --> 00:52:26,080
Well, there won't be anything top of
their mind if cryonics doesn't work.

1032
00:52:26,209 --> 00:52:28,329
But all we're saying is
there's a reasonable chance.

1033
00:52:28,685 --> 00:52:29,745
That's, that's what we're saying.

1034
00:52:29,965 --> 00:52:32,085
Thank you so much for
your time today, Peter.

1035
00:52:32,085 --> 00:52:34,115
It's been a fascinating chat.

1036
00:52:34,215 --> 00:52:36,595
This was a really good,
I enjoyed the interview.

1037
00:52:36,595 --> 00:52:39,105
I enjoyed what we, how
we discussed this too.

1038
00:52:39,305 --> 00:52:43,425
Gives me a chance to elaborate on
some things that normally in a quick

1039
00:52:43,455 --> 00:52:47,154
five minute I say something then I say
afterwards, I'm sure everybody's going to.

1040
00:52:47,335 --> 00:52:48,005
Don't miss that.

1041
00:52:48,235 --> 00:52:51,945
It's like when I define chronics at
the beginning, I say, and brought

1042
00:52:51,965 --> 00:52:56,425
back to a healthy body and of course
flies past most people and then near

1043
00:52:56,425 --> 00:52:59,445
the end they say, what, who would want
to come back in an 80 year old body?

1044
00:53:00,365 --> 00:53:03,325
I said, but don't forget, I
told you, I stressed the idea

1045
00:53:03,604 --> 00:53:05,004
that it's a healthy young body.

1046
00:53:05,014 --> 00:53:07,765
So, and again, we wouldn't be
doing it if it was coming back in

1047
00:53:07,765 --> 00:53:09,345
an 80 year old or whatever it is.

1048
00:53:10,105 --> 00:53:13,305
Unless an 80 year old in 200
years is as strong as a 25

1049
00:53:13,335 --> 00:53:15,395
year old is today, who knows?

1050
00:53:15,635 --> 00:53:19,885
Yeah, there's that small village
in Japan where everyone is very

1051
00:53:19,885 --> 00:53:22,404
fit and lives despite the old age.

1052
00:53:22,475 --> 00:53:22,765
Yes.

1053
00:53:22,975 --> 00:53:27,384
Well, you know, my old age, at least in
my wife's family, runs through her family.

1054
00:53:27,575 --> 00:53:29,165
Her mother's 102.

1055
00:53:29,175 --> 00:53:31,435
She's getting near 102, my wife's mother.

1056
00:53:31,555 --> 00:53:35,735
So, yeah, there's this, uh, Particularly
area of the Mediterranean, too,

1057
00:53:35,735 --> 00:53:39,035
in the Greek area, which is our
background, which also tends to

1058
00:53:39,035 --> 00:53:41,445
run into fairly long Lifespan.

1059
00:53:41,465 --> 00:53:43,565
So, and I hope they live forever.

1060
00:53:43,565 --> 00:53:44,715
I don't mind.

1061
00:53:45,085 --> 00:53:47,575
You know, as I said, cryonics is for life.

1062
00:53:47,625 --> 00:53:50,794
It's just another way in which we
can live longer lives if we have to.

1063
00:53:51,045 --> 00:53:52,335
Again, thank you very much.

1064
00:53:52,335 --> 00:53:55,285
I'm sorry to go on, but I've
enjoyed our conversation.

1065
00:53:56,114 --> 00:53:56,925
Don't apologize whatsoever.

1066
00:53:57,394 --> 00:53:59,185
It's been absolutely fascinating.

1067
00:53:59,615 --> 00:54:00,444
Thank you so much.

1068
00:54:00,804 --> 00:54:02,045
No, thank you so much.

1069
00:54:02,045 --> 00:54:04,725
And thank you for making it a
very pleasant conversation too.

1070
00:54:04,765 --> 00:54:05,085
Thanks.

1071
00:54:08,225 --> 00:54:11,645
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,

1072
00:54:11,965 --> 00:54:13,545
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1073
00:54:14,475 --> 00:54:18,745
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1074
00:54:18,745 --> 00:54:20,565
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1075
00:54:20,845 --> 00:54:21,885
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1076
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1077
00:54:26,350 --> 00:54:30,490
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1078
00:54:30,490 --> 00:54:32,230
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1079
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1080
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1081
00:54:35,020 --> 00:54:38,920
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1082
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