A Brother’s Experience with Suicide and Parental Death with James Robinson
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28th March 2024
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About this episode
Welcome to another episode of 'Don't Be Caught Dead'! This week, we delve into an incredibly raw and honest conversation with James Robinson. James courageously shares his personal experiences with loss, grief, and the impact of suicide on his family.
In this episode, James opens up about the tragic loss of his older brother, Michael, to suicide when they were just teenagers. This loss, which he describes as a 'huge shock', marked the start of a series of bereavements that profoundly affected James and his family. His recounting of these experiences paints a vivid, heartbreaking picture of the struggle that families face when dealing with the unexpected loss of a loved one.
Over the course of our conversation, James also reflects on his parents' passing and the significant toll these losses have taken on him. His story is a poignant reminder of the importance of support and understanding in navigating the journey of grief and loss. The strength and honesty with which James shares his story offer valuable insights and a sense of connection for those grappling with similar experiences.
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
James Robinson
James with his brother Michael
An early photo of the Robinson family
James's parents Ken and Helen
James brother Michael with their father Ken
James with his wife Kirsten and their two boys, Phoenix and Jett
Summary
In this episode, we:
- Discuss James's early loss of his brother to suicide and the devastating impact it had on his family
- Explore the coping mechanisms James and his parents adopted in the wake of their loss
- Reflect on James's subsequent experiences of bereavement with the passing of his parents
- Delve into the importance of support networks and the role they play in the grieving process
Stay tuned to hear James's powerful story and the lessons he's learned along his journey of grief and healing. As always, we hope this episode provides comfort, understanding, and a sense of connection to those who need it.
Transcript
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James Robinson: I got to a point
where I, cause I'd been there for
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00:00:03,170 --> 00:00:08,920
probably so long, I'd said to dad,
look, if you want to go, you can go.
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He was at peace at that point in time in
terms of that, giving him the medication
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00:00:14,620 --> 00:00:16,719
and, and painkillers and stuff like that.
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00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:19,930
So he was in a, in a comfortable position.
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Whether or not he could hear
me ... Read More
1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:03,170 James Robinson: I got to a point where I, cause I'd been there for 2 00:00:03,170 --> 00:00:08,920 probably so long, I'd said to dad, look, if you want to go, you can go. 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,620 He was at peace at that point in time in terms of that, giving him the medication 4 00:00:14,620 --> 00:00:16,719 and, and painkillers and stuff like that. 5 00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:19,930 So he was in a, in a comfortable position. 6 00:00:21,084 --> 00:00:23,025 Whether or not he could hear me or not, I'm not sure. 7 00:00:26,514 --> 00:00:30,555 Catherine Ashton: To Don't Be Caught Dead podcast, encouraging open conversations 8 00:00:30,555 --> 00:00:32,925 about dying and the death of a loved one. 9 00:00:33,534 --> 00:00:38,464 I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to 10 00:00:38,464 --> 00:00:43,204 bring your stories of death back to life because while you may not be ready 11 00:00:43,204 --> 00:00:45,714 to die, at least you can be prepared. 12 00:00:45,914 --> 00:00:46,074 Don't 13 00:00:49,305 --> 00:00:53,474 Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin nations and recognizes their 14 00:00:53,475 --> 00:00:56,174 connection to land, sea, and community. 15 00:00:56,445 --> 00:01:00,965 We pay our respects to their Elders, past, present and emerging and extend 16 00:01:00,965 --> 00:01:04,445 that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First 17 00:01:04,445 --> 00:01:06,055 Nation peoples around the globe. 18 00:01:11,835 --> 00:01:17,164 James Robinson grew up in Frankston, Victoria with his mum Helen, dad Ken 19 00:01:17,414 --> 00:01:22,445 and brother Michael in what he describes a very loving and connected family. 20 00:01:22,745 --> 00:01:25,735 James has really wonderful memories growing up as a child. 21 00:01:26,445 --> 00:01:28,715 He now lives in Tyabb, Victoria. 22 00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:34,509 James is married to Kirsten and is a super busy dad with their two energetic boys, 23 00:01:34,830 --> 00:01:37,720 Jet aged nine and Phoenix aged seven. 24 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,910 James says he has a great job working for Baw Baw Shire Council. 25 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,089 He gets great enjoyment staying fit and pottering around the garden. 26 00:01:48,015 --> 00:01:52,455 In the late 1990s, unfortunately, James's brother, Michael, who was 27 00:01:52,455 --> 00:01:55,555 about to turn 21, died by suicide. 28 00:01:56,404 --> 00:02:02,624 James's mum, Helen, died unexpectedly as a result of a stroke in 2019, and 29 00:02:02,625 --> 00:02:06,215 his dad, Ken, died of cancer in 2021. 30 00:02:07,245 --> 00:02:10,475 Life has changed a lot for James following the death of his mum 31 00:02:10,475 --> 00:02:12,935 and dad in such quick succession. 32 00:02:13,435 --> 00:02:16,654 Or, from out of the blue, as James describes it. 33 00:02:17,295 --> 00:02:19,045 This is James's story. 34 00:02:19,085 --> 00:02:20,315 Thanks for joining us today, 35 00:02:20,315 --> 00:02:20,905 James Robinson: James. 36 00:02:21,655 --> 00:02:22,095 No problem. 37 00:02:22,245 --> 00:02:22,915 Thanks for having me. 38 00:02:24,005 --> 00:02:27,454 Catherine Ashton: Can you please tell me about a time someone close to you 39 00:02:27,454 --> 00:02:27,935 James Robinson: died? 40 00:02:28,790 --> 00:02:32,640 Uh, yes, a few examples in my life, uh, unfortunately. 41 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:39,280 So my brother passed away when I was 18, he was 20, so over, 42 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,839 gee, over 20 odd years ago now. 43 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:45,239 So a long time ago, that feels like it. 44 00:02:45,390 --> 00:02:49,030 Yes, that was probably my first experience of a, I guess, an immediate. 45 00:02:49,315 --> 00:02:52,625 Family member had a few grandma and grandpas pass away as 46 00:02:52,625 --> 00:02:53,765 well over the period of time. 47 00:02:53,765 --> 00:02:58,765 But yes, certainly my brother was a, uh, a huge impact at that point in time. 48 00:02:58,834 --> 00:03:03,815 And then in 2019 mum passed away from a stroke. 49 00:03:04,465 --> 00:03:08,925 So she had a stroke and then four weeks later passed away. 50 00:03:08,925 --> 00:03:10,675 So that was quite significant. 51 00:03:10,785 --> 00:03:13,525 She was super fit and healthy. 52 00:03:13,985 --> 00:03:17,015 And then two years after that, a little bit over two years 53 00:03:17,024 --> 00:03:19,115 after that, Dad passed away. 54 00:03:19,125 --> 00:03:20,715 So that was 2021. 55 00:03:22,445 --> 00:03:24,495 Dad passed away from multiple myeloma. 56 00:03:24,505 --> 00:03:28,815 So a rare blood cancer, bone marrow type of cancer. 57 00:03:28,815 --> 00:03:30,745 So, yeah, certainly. 58 00:03:31,705 --> 00:03:38,315 All three, probably apart from dad, given we knew his diagnosis a couple of 59 00:03:38,315 --> 00:03:45,165 years prior, but certainly all three, you know, not planned, not, not something 60 00:03:45,165 --> 00:03:50,085 that I've ever planned or thought of in terms of losing a brother or a parent. 61 00:03:50,085 --> 00:03:56,505 So yeah, my brother took his own life, unfortunately, fit, healthy, young man, 62 00:03:56,505 --> 00:03:58,915 good job, good mates, great family. 63 00:03:58,915 --> 00:03:59,705 We were really. 64 00:04:00,555 --> 00:04:02,034 tight, close family. 65 00:04:02,334 --> 00:04:08,065 So yeah, huge shock for everybody, for, for us, for friends, you know, not 66 00:04:08,065 --> 00:04:12,204 into drugs, not into alcohol, lived a really good, good life, close mates. 67 00:04:12,724 --> 00:04:16,144 And yeah, just, um, yeah, took it, took his own life. 68 00:04:16,825 --> 00:04:20,755 Uh, a couple of weeks before his 21st birthday, so I was 18 at the time. 69 00:04:21,265 --> 00:04:25,495 Just left a note saying he loved us, and that was it. 70 00:04:25,495 --> 00:04:28,375 So it was , it was a really hard one to, to grapple. 71 00:04:28,645 --> 00:04:33,635 Look, I probably, oh look, I was only 18. 72 00:04:33,635 --> 00:04:40,375 So, to, to process it for me, you know, completely different 73 00:04:40,375 --> 00:04:41,664 as to how I would process it. 74 00:04:41,664 --> 00:04:46,435 Now, being a 43-year-old man with a couple of kids, myself and a, and a, and a wife, 75 00:04:46,435 --> 00:04:50,005 so, you know, I really, I have a lot of. 76 00:04:50,594 --> 00:04:54,744 Memory loss, I feel from that period of time, you know, beyond that as well. 77 00:04:54,744 --> 00:04:59,695 So, you know, life just continues and away you go and suicide wasn't something 78 00:04:59,705 --> 00:05:05,615 that was, you know, probably I guess known about or really understood. 79 00:05:05,615 --> 00:05:09,544 There wasn't probably the research and probably more the openness 80 00:05:09,564 --> 00:05:11,575 now that it's talked about. 81 00:05:11,575 --> 00:05:15,265 So, you know, I look when I think about it now and I look back at it. 82 00:05:16,020 --> 00:05:19,490 I really felt for my parents, you know, trying to go through that 83 00:05:19,930 --> 00:05:25,130 period of time losing, you know, their eldest son to suicide, you know, 84 00:05:25,130 --> 00:05:30,860 and with no real reason as to why, you know, he went down that path. 85 00:05:30,860 --> 00:05:35,810 So I, yeah, you know, you always go through the whys and what ifs, 86 00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:42,720 but I know for, for me, Oh, look, I probably continued my life, 87 00:05:42,949 --> 00:05:45,219 you know, as a young man, 18. 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:51,710 I, I don't feel like I changed anything, which is hard when I think about it now. 89 00:05:51,710 --> 00:05:55,520 I think that's probably, you know, not, not the right thing to do. 90 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:56,570 So, yeah. 91 00:05:56,575 --> 00:06:02,330 You know, when I, he, when I think about it now, you know, I, I feel so sad for mum 92 00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:06,979 and dad and I know they really carried it right up until their passing, you know, 93 00:06:06,979 --> 00:06:09,080 they just didn't understand the why. 94 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,191 So that was a, that was a. 95 00:06:10,515 --> 00:06:16,485 Um, you know, the first real, um, loss of someone, um, super close, 96 00:06:16,485 --> 00:06:17,735 I was really close with my brother. 97 00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:19,064 So, um. 98 00:06:19,144 --> 00:06:20,045 What was his name? 99 00:06:20,045 --> 00:06:20,365 James? 100 00:06:20,434 --> 00:06:20,995 Uh, Michael. 101 00:06:21,165 --> 00:06:22,304 Michael Robinson. 102 00:06:22,365 --> 00:06:22,635 Yeah. 103 00:06:23,034 --> 00:06:23,405 Yeah. 104 00:06:24,085 --> 00:06:25,485 Catherine Ashton: And, and so it was just you 105 00:06:25,485 --> 00:06:26,134 James Robinson: and Michael? 106 00:06:26,224 --> 00:06:26,484 Yeah. 107 00:06:26,485 --> 00:06:27,275 Just the two of us. 108 00:06:27,294 --> 00:06:27,834 Yeah. 109 00:06:27,945 --> 00:06:33,805 So that, you know, yeah, changes the way you become an only child and, um, 110 00:06:34,534 --> 00:06:36,485 again, not that I felt like I changed. 111 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,970 the way I went about my next, you know, 10, 15 years. 112 00:06:43,150 --> 00:06:50,650 Oh, I probably dealt with it more around drinking, I think, as a, as a young man. 113 00:06:50,650 --> 00:06:55,329 So I feel like that was probably a way in which I dealt with my emotions, 114 00:06:55,330 --> 00:06:58,379 you know, young, young men, you know, put your emotions there very often 115 00:06:58,509 --> 00:07:02,189 or not that you're told not to, but there's that bit of stigma around that. 116 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:04,050 So yeah, I probably hid it away. 117 00:07:05,050 --> 00:07:05,610 You know, I think I've. 118 00:07:06,380 --> 00:07:11,609 dealt with it over time but, but probably still haven't dealt with it. 119 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:13,330 It's a funny one when I think about it. 120 00:07:13,969 --> 00:07:20,609 Yeah, tough, you know, a tough period for mum and dad but I certainly think, I don't 121 00:07:20,609 --> 00:07:26,435 know, me being an 18 year old I probably Shuffled it to the side and moved on with 122 00:07:26,585 --> 00:07:31,684 being an 18 year old, you know, back in the, you know, back in the late 90s, early 123 00:07:31,695 --> 00:07:34,065 20s and, and just got on with things. 124 00:07:34,145 --> 00:07:34,365 And 125 00:07:34,365 --> 00:07:36,085 Catherine Ashton: was there any support offered at all 126 00:07:36,555 --> 00:07:37,275 James Robinson: that you can recall? 127 00:07:37,275 --> 00:07:40,384 No, it was funny thinking about it, given you and I having 128 00:07:40,384 --> 00:07:42,534 discussions over the last few months. 129 00:07:43,214 --> 00:07:44,915 No, God, like I remember. 130 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:52,930 My main memory of support is I remember, I can't, I can't remember if it was the 131 00:07:52,940 --> 00:07:59,400 police at the point in time of them saying you'd found your son or your brother, you 132 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,870 know, after they'd arrived at the house. 133 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,260 I vaguely remember them saying there's some counselling you can 134 00:08:06,260 --> 00:08:09,340 get through, uh, through the police. 135 00:08:09,935 --> 00:08:11,245 or some support. 136 00:08:11,315 --> 00:08:15,275 So I remember that was offered, but we didn't do anything as a 137 00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:18,785 family, um, unit that I recall. 138 00:08:19,494 --> 00:08:22,615 Mom and dad ended up being heavily into meditation. 139 00:08:22,795 --> 00:08:26,464 I think that's the way they dealt with it into the years, you know, 140 00:08:26,485 --> 00:08:30,325 into, it just became part of their, you know, their sort of life each 141 00:08:30,325 --> 00:08:31,645 day that that sort of meditate. 142 00:08:31,645 --> 00:08:35,155 And I think that probably that helped them get through, but now I 143 00:08:35,155 --> 00:08:39,055 can, I think just the whole suicide sort of thing and loss around that. 144 00:08:40,615 --> 00:08:41,485 Not much support. 145 00:08:41,485 --> 00:08:48,125 I certainly didn't reach out or ask or request it and nor was I offered it. 146 00:08:48,574 --> 00:08:52,344 But I never thought that I needed it, probably until later in life, you 147 00:08:52,344 --> 00:08:56,405 know, looking back, but, uh, yeah. 148 00:08:56,765 --> 00:09:00,345 Um, nothing that I can recall in that, in that space. 149 00:09:00,345 --> 00:09:02,734 And 150 00:09:02,735 --> 00:09:05,755 Catherine Ashton: you were 18 at the time, were you, were you 151 00:09:05,755 --> 00:09:07,435 still at school or had you gone to 152 00:09:07,435 --> 00:09:08,235 James Robinson: university? 153 00:09:08,255 --> 00:09:13,745 Yeah, I was between, I'd finished year 12, I'd worked for a period of time 154 00:09:13,775 --> 00:09:18,145 and then I was, I'd stopped working and was moving to go into university. 155 00:09:18,145 --> 00:09:21,815 So yeah, and I traveled for a little bit after that actually as well, which 156 00:09:21,815 --> 00:09:25,244 I, you know, in hindsight, I think. 157 00:09:25,635 --> 00:09:27,645 You know, why did I do that at that point in time? 158 00:09:27,645 --> 00:09:33,405 Why didn't I, in that, that year that followed, he had passed away in late, 159 00:09:33,554 --> 00:09:38,565 late Jan, and then I think later on that year, towards the end of that year, 160 00:09:38,565 --> 00:09:42,325 I traveled a little bit, not for long periods of time, but yeah, like I said, 161 00:09:42,325 --> 00:09:46,715 I sort of just continued with my life and I, I, and I look back at it now 162 00:09:46,715 --> 00:09:51,115 and I think, geez, I wish I, you know, You know, put my arms around mum and 163 00:09:51,115 --> 00:09:54,225 dad a little bit more because God knows what, what they were going through. 164 00:09:54,425 --> 00:10:01,164 I know dad would love his garage, but I remember him distinctly 165 00:10:01,165 --> 00:10:02,535 being down there more often. 166 00:10:03,275 --> 00:10:08,025 And I remember him crying and I can remember hearing him yelling, but 167 00:10:08,025 --> 00:10:15,195 to himself in the garage, I think that was his space to, to deal 168 00:10:15,195 --> 00:10:16,555 with what he was thinking with. 169 00:10:18,810 --> 00:10:20,270 Yeah, a funny one. 170 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:20,930 And your 171 00:10:20,930 --> 00:10:25,140 Catherine Ashton: mum, do you remember how she dealt with it? 172 00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:30,735 James Robinson: Uh, look, not, not I don't have great memories 173 00:10:30,825 --> 00:10:34,305 around that sort of initial period. 174 00:10:34,305 --> 00:10:36,065 I know the family were very supportive. 175 00:10:36,255 --> 00:10:40,895 We had a great extended family with cousins and aunties and uncles, 176 00:10:40,955 --> 00:10:44,964 you know, really interconnected and really valued our family time. 177 00:10:45,535 --> 00:10:47,364 So I know that they were certainly. 178 00:10:47,595 --> 00:10:53,105 You know, close with us and I think with mum and dad, um, you know, probably really 179 00:10:53,105 --> 00:10:57,745 helped in that space, but not that I can remember it super clearly, you know, but 180 00:10:57,745 --> 00:11:03,024 I think at the same time they were very, you know, how, how do we, you know, how 181 00:11:03,024 --> 00:11:07,314 do you deal with death and probably death in that way as well and how do we support, 182 00:11:07,555 --> 00:11:14,005 you know, mum and mum and dad and myself, you know, I have this really clear memory 183 00:11:15,584 --> 00:11:20,270 of, I think it was after the funeral, um, Me sitting in my bedroom and my auntie 184 00:11:20,270 --> 00:11:24,620 coming in and the only thing she could say to me and not, it's not her fault, 185 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,980 but I have such a clear memory of it was, Oh, you haven't made your bed properly. 186 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:31,740 And this is how we do the corners. 187 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:37,760 And, and I sort of just looked at her and, you know, and she just did the bed and, 188 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,790 and then just said, I'll leave you be. 189 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:43,330 And anyhow, I have that such a clear image of her doing that. 190 00:11:43,330 --> 00:11:45,050 And I think she was just. 191 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,550 unaware of how to support somebody and how do you, you know, so it was such a shock. 192 00:11:51,580 --> 00:11:52,580 It was such a shock. 193 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:56,300 So I think it really, you know, people really struggled with, with that, but I 194 00:11:56,300 --> 00:12:00,210 know, I certainly know the family were there and were involved with mum and dad. 195 00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:05,030 And I think mum in, for mum to deal with it in her, you know, years to 196 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:08,430 come 10, 15 years later, she often. 197 00:12:09,315 --> 00:12:12,605 Because we often talked about him, you know, we're very open in that 198 00:12:12,625 --> 00:12:14,425 space, which I think really helped. 199 00:12:14,555 --> 00:12:20,045 I do think it probably frustrated dad a little bit at times, but I know mum. 200 00:12:20,535 --> 00:12:22,814 My brother was sick for a period of time. 201 00:12:22,814 --> 00:12:28,295 He had encephalitis and was hospitalized and in the ICU and it was Might have been 202 00:12:28,295 --> 00:12:33,044 around the 12 months after that Episode when he took his life and there was some 203 00:12:33,045 --> 00:12:37,564 research that mum had found Because I think mum was trying to close the book 204 00:12:38,474 --> 00:12:43,855 and have a reason as to why he had taken his life I think they she really struggled 205 00:12:43,855 --> 00:12:52,135 with that Understandably, so I think she Yeah, I think there was some research or 206 00:12:52,175 --> 00:12:57,095 something that can affect the brain and the chemicals and, and I think she felt 207 00:12:57,165 --> 00:13:00,134 he wasn't the same after that illness. 208 00:13:00,895 --> 00:13:02,655 I can't remember a change. 209 00:13:02,725 --> 00:13:06,614 I felt he was a pretty typical, you know, 19, 20 year old. 210 00:13:07,425 --> 00:13:12,895 Slept in, you know, all the good mates, you know, had a few beers, but not much, 211 00:13:12,895 --> 00:13:16,685 but was into cars and, you know, mountain bike riding, all this sort of stuff. 212 00:13:17,654 --> 00:13:19,495 But she sort of hung her hat on. 213 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,600 That was, you know, that changed the direction for him and resolved it in this. 214 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,100 So I think that's how mum dealt with it. 215 00:13:27,210 --> 00:13:31,549 I think she sort of needed closure on the what, you know, that why, you know, but 216 00:13:31,549 --> 00:13:37,320 that was 15, 20 odd years later, you know, that she would often come back to that. 217 00:13:37,330 --> 00:13:40,730 So, and I, I don't, you know, I don't know. 218 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Could, could be. 219 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:42,570 Yeah. 220 00:13:43,140 --> 00:13:46,870 But yeah, I think that's, that's how mum probably tried to. 221 00:13:47,485 --> 00:13:50,575 To manage that why for herself. 222 00:13:51,855 --> 00:13:52,305 Hmm. 223 00:13:53,625 --> 00:13:53,855 And 224 00:13:53,855 --> 00:13:55,985 Catherine Ashton: now you have two boys yourself. 225 00:13:56,755 --> 00:14:01,665 And, and is there sort of things that you used to do as a, a child 226 00:14:01,665 --> 00:14:05,477 with, you know, Michael that you, you mentioned motorbike, not motorbike 227 00:14:05,477 --> 00:14:07,042 riding, mountain bike riding? 228 00:14:07,042 --> 00:14:07,955 Yeah, mountain bike 229 00:14:07,955 --> 00:14:08,145 James Robinson: riding. 230 00:14:08,145 --> 00:14:09,205 Yeah, look, definitely. 231 00:14:09,215 --> 00:14:12,355 I've got a couple of mad mates who love mountain bike riding and I've, 232 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:16,050 Since got into it the last handful of years, but yes, definitely. 233 00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:22,379 The eldest jet is is a keen mountain bike rider So he he and I doing a you 234 00:14:22,379 --> 00:14:24,319 know, he provides which is great fun. 235 00:14:24,609 --> 00:14:25,359 That's funny. 236 00:14:25,609 --> 00:14:30,489 My dad's dad's Uh, you know as an engineering draftsman, he was a mechanic. 237 00:14:30,489 --> 00:14:33,469 He raced motorbikes, you know he's basically born on two 238 00:14:33,469 --> 00:14:37,749 wheels and My brother sort of followed in his dad's footsteps. 239 00:14:37,749 --> 00:14:39,189 Michael was a motor mechanic. 240 00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:43,785 So, you know, um You know, I look at an engine and where do you 241 00:14:43,785 --> 00:14:46,675 start call the mechanic for me? 242 00:14:47,095 --> 00:14:51,025 Oh, you know, I didn't get that side of things, but Michael certainly got dad's 243 00:14:51,145 --> 00:14:53,354 genes in terms of being a mechanic. 244 00:14:53,355 --> 00:14:57,094 And he was a mechanic at the point in when he, when he passed and was 245 00:14:57,095 --> 00:15:00,575 into rally car driving and, but Mike was also in a mountain bike 246 00:15:00,575 --> 00:15:04,495 riding too, but jet has certainly got the mechanical brain as well. 247 00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:08,199 So I think, yeah, that sort of stayed in, you know, in with, but he's, 248 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,500 uh, yeah, he's constructing bits and pieces and all that sort of stuff. 249 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:15,440 And I reckon he'll be very mechanically minded. 250 00:15:15,510 --> 00:15:17,430 He loves unpicking how things work. 251 00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:18,329 So that feels nice. 252 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:21,439 So that's stayed in the family a little bit, but yeah, certainly the 253 00:15:21,439 --> 00:15:23,579 mountain bike riding is, is lovely. 254 00:15:23,579 --> 00:15:25,589 And I've got a few nice photos of my brother. 255 00:15:25,954 --> 00:15:31,465 Racing in, in mountain bike and yeah, nice reflection to, you know, to have a nice 256 00:15:31,465 --> 00:15:35,515 memory to have and if Jet sticks with it, you know, that's, yeah, that's, that's 257 00:15:35,515 --> 00:15:40,825 great for, you know, for his future and a nice touch back to, back to Michael. 258 00:15:40,865 --> 00:15:41,939 So, yeah, it's good. 259 00:15:41,939 --> 00:15:42,352 It's 260 00:15:42,352 --> 00:15:42,764 Catherine Ashton: good. 261 00:15:42,764 --> 00:15:47,723 And now moving to your mum when she died, that was in 262 00:15:47,723 --> 00:15:49,795 James Robinson: 2000 and, uh, 19. 263 00:15:49,795 --> 00:15:50,415 Yeah, middle of 2019. 264 00:15:51,365 --> 00:15:51,695 Yeah. 265 00:15:51,695 --> 00:15:52,255 Look at it. 266 00:15:54,689 --> 00:15:58,010 We purchased this, I mean, going back a little bit before then, we, 267 00:15:58,189 --> 00:16:03,339 uh, myself and Kirsten, my wife, we fell in love with this property 268 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:05,370 in Tyabb, showed it to mum and dad. 269 00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:07,359 There was two houses before you knew it. 270 00:16:07,370 --> 00:16:10,889 We were, you know, putting this offer in on this house, you know, 271 00:16:10,889 --> 00:16:12,319 beautiful, beautiful property. 272 00:16:12,319 --> 00:16:17,720 And, you know, with this vision of mum and dad being next door, you know, us being 273 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,190 in one house, them in, in the other house. 274 00:16:20,850 --> 00:16:24,520 you know, being there for 20 odd years growing up with the boys and that 275 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,080 interaction and, you know, grandma and grandpa on the, on the doorstep. 276 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,440 So that was a, you know, something that had occurred 277 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,129 prior to mom having the stroke. 278 00:16:33,130 --> 00:16:38,649 So we were there for about two years with them, you know, with us and with them. 279 00:16:38,650 --> 00:16:41,980 And, you know, it was just this lovely relationship, this lovely property 280 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:43,550 that sort of brought us together. 281 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:46,200 You're not something that we'd ever planned or thought of, you know, 282 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,690 moving in with your, you know, your parents and Kirsten's in laws, but. 283 00:16:50,064 --> 00:16:53,005 You know, mum had this really special connection with the boys, 284 00:16:53,035 --> 00:16:57,035 you know, real grandma and would wrap her arms around them all the time. 285 00:16:57,035 --> 00:17:00,094 And, and, and then with her, this beautiful connection and 286 00:17:00,094 --> 00:17:01,984 jet had with grandpa as well. 287 00:17:02,614 --> 00:17:04,044 Phoenix was only young. 288 00:17:04,165 --> 00:17:08,094 We moved in there when he might've been just getting into a toddler and yeah, 289 00:17:08,094 --> 00:17:10,335 look mum, you know, beautiful sunny day. 290 00:17:10,335 --> 00:17:11,704 She's out in the veggie patch. 291 00:17:11,714 --> 00:17:12,325 Remember having a. 292 00:17:12,699 --> 00:17:17,069 Chat with her and her and dad had a a dinner and dance I think with the 293 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,609 local men's shed at that point in time that evening and yeah, you know 294 00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:27,895 mums Fit and healthy, you know, 72 year old and, uh, you know, probably 295 00:17:27,895 --> 00:17:31,004 15, 20 years of life ahead of her. 296 00:17:31,005 --> 00:17:36,064 And at the start of that year, going back again at the start of that year, dad had 297 00:17:36,065 --> 00:17:38,215 just got diagnosed with multiple myeloma. 298 00:17:38,224 --> 00:17:42,705 So dad fit and healthy, rode motorbikes still, you know, right up until 299 00:17:42,775 --> 00:17:46,325 six months before he passed, he was still riding, rode push bikes. 300 00:17:46,325 --> 00:17:46,615 Yeah. 301 00:17:46,615 --> 00:17:47,395 Both of them in just. 302 00:17:47,925 --> 00:17:51,985 You know, what you'd hope to be, you know, health wise, you 303 00:17:51,985 --> 00:17:53,275 know, in your early seventies. 304 00:17:53,615 --> 00:17:58,185 Um, and yeah, look, they went out for dinner and next thing, you know, mom's 305 00:17:58,185 --> 00:18:04,895 got a headache and, um, dad recognized that part of her, um, her left side, 306 00:18:05,105 --> 00:18:09,285 um, within sort of 20 minutes of her saying, I think I've got to go home. 307 00:18:09,405 --> 00:18:12,675 And then her headache getting worse, dad noticed getting into the car, 308 00:18:13,115 --> 00:18:14,395 she couldn't lift her left leg. 309 00:18:14,395 --> 00:18:14,715 So. 310 00:18:15,215 --> 00:18:19,915 That it was a hemorrh hemorrhagical stroke type of stroke, I think 311 00:18:19,915 --> 00:18:20,685 that's how you pronounce it. 312 00:18:21,065 --> 00:18:24,115 Uh, but yeah, very super heavy, instant bleeding. 313 00:18:24,204 --> 00:18:28,084 Uh, pretty hard to come back from in terms of recovery. 314 00:18:28,895 --> 00:18:34,045 So, you know, within, she was straight down at Frankston Hospital and they 315 00:18:34,055 --> 00:18:36,115 sent her straight up to the, the Alfred. 316 00:18:36,775 --> 00:18:40,025 But yeah, by the time, you know, I followed them in and by the time, 317 00:18:40,025 --> 00:18:44,450 you know, she was, uh, Uh, we could see her, which was only a handful of 318 00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:47,170 hours, she couldn't open her eyes. 319 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:52,020 She was, you know, she was chatting, but definitely slowing 320 00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:54,090 down pretty quick in that space. 321 00:18:54,090 --> 00:19:00,029 And within a day or two days, um, she was only squeezing your hand, um, so 322 00:19:00,029 --> 00:19:02,000 she could hear, but she couldn't talk. 323 00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:03,520 Um, yeah. 324 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:09,140 And that passed within, oh gee, it would have been two, you know, maybe at the 325 00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:12,460 two week mark, um, she couldn't respond. 326 00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:19,910 So yeah, super, um, super tough to see, you know, that just that change so quick 327 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:25,360 from air being a, you know, a super, super healthy fit, you know, person 328 00:19:25,369 --> 00:19:30,340 to just instantly, you know, almost instantly just their life changing and 329 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:35,010 yeah, that sort of two to three week period, you know, the scans were just 330 00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:39,680 showing that the bleed was too heavy and the impacts on the brain were too heavy. 331 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,989 So yeah, it was just. 332 00:19:43,460 --> 00:19:47,610 Take her off the life support and, and see how long she lasts. 333 00:19:47,610 --> 00:19:51,310 And that, so that was four, four weeks from the stroke to, to her passing. 334 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,069 So yeah, super shock. 335 00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:57,509 And yeah, with that, I guess in the background for me, it was. 336 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:07,380 You know, a horrific, unexpected, uh, death of mum, but also knowing that 337 00:20:07,779 --> 00:20:11,929 six months prior dad had been diagnosed with, you know, multiple myeloma 338 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,130 and there was that journey to come. 339 00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:17,489 So you sort of think, okay, well, we'd sort of planned a little bit that. 340 00:20:18,419 --> 00:20:21,980 Well, gee, it's great that they're next door, mum and dad are next door. 341 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:26,840 We can support mum to support dad throughout whatever, you know, 342 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,560 journey he's going to take with the, with the myeloma cancer. 343 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:38,039 And then, and dad had held off on chemo because his protein levels that sort 344 00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:43,650 of indicate how bad the myeloma might be within the system were quite low. 345 00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:45,880 So they wanted to hold off on, on any. 346 00:20:46,405 --> 00:20:47,795 chemo or form of treatment. 347 00:20:48,485 --> 00:20:50,835 So he had a good six months of no treatment. 348 00:20:50,835 --> 00:20:51,775 It was just monitoring. 349 00:20:52,525 --> 00:20:57,895 And then it was, would it be in two weeks, um, prior to mom's stroke 350 00:20:57,925 --> 00:21:01,325 that the doctors had said, Oh, look, your levels are going up. 351 00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:03,264 We probably better start chemo. 352 00:21:04,324 --> 00:21:04,644 Yeah. 353 00:21:04,644 --> 00:21:09,115 And then mom's stroke occurred, you know, within the week of mom's stroke. 354 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,860 Dad's doctors were saying, look, we probably should get onto the 355 00:21:14,350 --> 00:21:16,060 chemo sooner rather than later. 356 00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:23,410 Mum's death, and dad had said I'm not doing anything until, you know, we sort 357 00:21:23,410 --> 00:21:26,679 of work through mum's funeral and passing. 358 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,280 But yeah, look, it would have been after mum's funeral, the maybe five 359 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,760 to seven days after mum's funeral. 360 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,510 Dad was in with his first round of chemo. 361 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:45,540 So, you know, for dad to have this whole other journey to focus on. 362 00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:52,190 So, you know, he's grieving the loss of, you know, his wife of 45 363 00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:53,610 odd years, whatever it might be. 364 00:21:54,139 --> 00:21:55,919 Yeah, so a bloody shit period. 365 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,579 And, 366 00:22:00,579 --> 00:22:06,419 Catherine Ashton: and tell me, do you recall that decision making process where, 367 00:22:06,889 --> 00:22:11,730 were you involved in that where you had to decide to take off the life support 368 00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:12,750 James Robinson: from your mum? 369 00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:13,949 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 370 00:22:14,649 --> 00:22:20,560 Um, you know, it was a, it was a whirlwind to be honest, just given the severity 371 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:27,239 of the stroke, these, you know, and the way in which mom deteriorated, you 372 00:22:27,239 --> 00:22:31,999 kind of knew that, you know, there's no chance that she's going to come back. 373 00:22:31,999 --> 00:22:39,959 So I feel like I probably came to terms with, you know, she's not going to talk. 374 00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:44,669 We spoke about that, you know, there was, there was certainly talk about. 375 00:22:45,975 --> 00:22:49,904 Okay, what recovery might look like, but within the following week, it 376 00:22:50,004 --> 00:22:55,194 was, it was talk about, look, we don't think she'll make a recovery. 377 00:22:55,194 --> 00:22:56,374 So yeah, look, we. 378 00:22:58,679 --> 00:23:03,060 We, we were certainly, you know, it was both myself and dad, I guess, supporting 379 00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:07,980 each other in the decisions that we had to make, but you know, there were no 380 00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:12,290 options, you know, there were, you know, mum had the stroke and the impact on 381 00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:18,330 the brain was so significant that there was no, there was no chance of recovery. 382 00:23:18,610 --> 00:23:25,289 It was, you know, yes, you could, we could have kept her on life support, 383 00:23:25,289 --> 00:23:30,760 but there was There was no, there was no benefit to anyone in that space. 384 00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:35,190 And I know probably, you know, conversations with mum and dad 385 00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:42,240 over the years, you know, they were never, you know, fond of, hey, keep 386 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,259 me around just because I guess. 387 00:23:45,259 --> 00:23:50,590 And if I, you know, if I'm not speaking or talking or I don't have that 388 00:23:50,659 --> 00:23:56,310 ability to have a, uh, quality of life. 389 00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:58,330 I don't want to be here. 390 00:23:58,450 --> 00:24:02,030 So, you know, you can make that decision, not that I don't think it was ever 391 00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:05,570 written down anywhere, but we often touched on it every now and again, 392 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:09,760 if we, it was often on the back of conversations around my brother passing, 393 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,439 you know, when you move into that space. 394 00:24:11,629 --> 00:24:18,780 So, yeah, I guess it was a, an easy decision given the state 395 00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:22,410 mum was in that, you know, there was no quality of life for her. 396 00:24:23,324 --> 00:24:27,995 So let's, let's take her off the life support and just let, let the 397 00:24:27,995 --> 00:24:30,054 days and let her body manage it. 398 00:24:30,155 --> 00:24:34,194 Oh man, I can't remember off the top of my head how, how long it was. 399 00:24:34,294 --> 00:24:41,045 Unfortunately, we were both home, which I kind of regret, you know, mum was in. 400 00:24:41,415 --> 00:24:46,355 in hospital in the city and dad and I had come home with the plan to go 401 00:24:46,355 --> 00:24:50,004 up the next morning and I thought it might have been four or five a. 402 00:24:50,004 --> 00:24:50,245 m. 403 00:24:50,254 --> 00:24:54,024 I think dad had got the call that yeah she'd passed so I 404 00:24:54,024 --> 00:24:55,514 really feel sad about that. 405 00:24:55,604 --> 00:24:58,794 I sort of kick myself a bit that that no one was there. 406 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:04,680 When mum had passed, you know, I'm not religious or anything like that. 407 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,849 I don't have, you know, but I do, yeah, I do feel sad that she 408 00:25:08,849 --> 00:25:13,279 passed without someone sitting with her, holding her hand. 409 00:25:13,710 --> 00:25:17,170 I sort of regret that element of mum passing, but yeah. 410 00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:20,160 Catherine Ashton: Did COVID play a part in that at all, 411 00:25:20,260 --> 00:25:21,375 James Robinson: James, given the time period? 412 00:25:21,375 --> 00:25:24,360 No, no, that was, that was just prior to, yeah. 413 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:24,780 Yeah, okay. 414 00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:26,350 Unfortunately, dad. 415 00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:30,865 You know how you got and it's funny actually going back to back to mom kind 416 00:25:30,865 --> 00:25:36,404 of COVID You know, I think I don't think she would have coped very well at all 417 00:25:36,645 --> 00:25:43,774 But yeah, dad dad had the impacts of COVID unfortunately You know, I lost 418 00:25:43,774 --> 00:25:51,965 his wife You know 2019 started chemo at the back end of 2019 and then you 419 00:25:51,965 --> 00:26:00,480 know COVID hits 2020 and you know, he's grieving, couldn't see me, you know, got 420 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,690 to protect himself because of the impacts of chemo and the immune system being down. 421 00:26:05,159 --> 00:26:09,949 So he really locked himself, you know, I don't regret he, like he had to do that. 422 00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:12,700 That's funny, Kirsten and I often speak about it. 423 00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:18,590 And I wish, you know, if you, you know, if you think about dad's journey 424 00:26:18,590 --> 00:26:25,020 through that period of time, you know, I didn't see him for periods, 425 00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:28,840 Kirsten didn't, the boys certainly didn't see him the way they would have. 426 00:26:30,050 --> 00:26:34,210 Um, because he really tried to protect himself, which is completely 427 00:26:34,210 --> 00:26:38,899 understandable, but if we hadn't known that he only had that period 428 00:26:38,899 --> 00:26:42,629 of time, geez, I wish we were over there more often, you know? 429 00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:49,389 And I think he would have opened the doors more, but yeah, look, he was, 430 00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:52,889 you know, his, his health and immune system really compromised with the 431 00:26:52,889 --> 00:26:56,850 chemo and, and he did, he had to protect himself from, you know, from getting 432 00:26:56,860 --> 00:26:57,930 COVID because it probably would have. 433 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,750 Probably wouldn't, you know, really impacted on him. 434 00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:03,780 He had, he'd had mild emphysema over the journey as well. 435 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:07,280 So yeah, he really had to lock himself away. 436 00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:12,750 But yeah, what a shit time when, you know, he's, he's grieving his, his wife, he's 437 00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:15,119 doing chemo, you know, where next door. 438 00:27:15,179 --> 00:27:19,679 I mean, obviously I saw him as much as I could, but friends and family, 439 00:27:19,810 --> 00:27:22,770 you know, few and far between during that, during that period. 440 00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:23,070 So. 441 00:27:24,475 --> 00:27:28,074 Yeah, I feel super sorry for, for dad, you know, in that, when I 442 00:27:28,074 --> 00:27:29,764 think about it, him in that moment. 443 00:27:29,914 --> 00:27:35,104 Um, yeah, I mean, but obviously again, you know, we didn't know, 444 00:27:35,114 --> 00:27:38,014 was he going to be around for two years, five years, 10 years? 445 00:27:38,014 --> 00:27:42,814 I think the average life expectancy for multiple myeloma at that point in 446 00:27:42,814 --> 00:27:46,114 time was around five year sort of mark. 447 00:27:46,274 --> 00:27:46,485 Yeah. 448 00:27:46,485 --> 00:27:50,664 Dad, two and a half years in when he passed around that time. 449 00:27:50,665 --> 00:27:51,024 I'm sorry. 450 00:27:51,024 --> 00:27:51,194 Yeah. 451 00:27:51,194 --> 00:27:52,235 We didn't even make. 452 00:27:53,739 --> 00:28:00,110 You know, the sort of five year mark, but, but yeah, we went through all the three 453 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,690 sort of publicly available treatments, chemo treatments, he'd often have a really 454 00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:08,379 good response initially, which was great. 455 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,459 But then six to eight months later, the multiple myeloma would, 456 00:28:12,649 --> 00:28:16,679 would evolve and change and, and that chemo drug wouldn't work. 457 00:28:16,679 --> 00:28:20,730 So we'd have to change it by the time we got through the third, you know, year 458 00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:28,754 and a half, you know, so it was, well, Alternate, you know, awesome, awesome. 459 00:28:29,975 --> 00:28:33,825 Medications that were more on the trial, he had to get into a trial. 460 00:28:34,065 --> 00:28:37,825 So yeah, unfortunately he got pneumonia. 461 00:28:38,175 --> 00:28:44,514 His immune system was pretty shot right at the back end, started 2022. 462 00:28:44,765 --> 00:28:45,954 Yeah, it's 2022. 463 00:28:46,425 --> 00:28:51,295 So we went up to the Alfred to try and get in on a trial drug, but his body 464 00:28:51,315 --> 00:28:53,245 was just too weak at that point in time. 465 00:28:53,245 --> 00:28:57,600 And the doctor said, look, you, try and get fit healthy and then come back. 466 00:28:57,630 --> 00:29:01,090 But he was really on a downward journey from that point onwards. 467 00:29:01,090 --> 00:29:09,389 And he had a few, uh, you know, issues with, you know, almost passing, but, 468 00:29:09,699 --> 00:29:15,889 you know, some heavy antibiotics got him through and, which was kind of great 469 00:29:15,939 --> 00:29:20,719 because we got to this point where he made the decision probably jumping a little 470 00:29:20,719 --> 00:29:24,969 bit, but dad actually himself got to make the decision that I've had enough. 471 00:29:24,969 --> 00:29:26,719 I don't want any more treatment. 472 00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:31,810 There's no other treatment options for me. 473 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:36,110 And his body just couldn't recover from the state that it was currently in. 474 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:41,600 So we were in Peninsular, in Peninsular private a lot in that last, you know, 475 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,960 sort of probably four odd months. 476 00:29:44,499 --> 00:29:48,999 And yeah, look, he, he got to say, Hey, I think I'm done, you know, which I'm 477 00:29:48,999 --> 00:29:52,819 glad about, um, you know, probably happy. 478 00:29:52,939 --> 00:29:57,235 I didn't have to make the decision, you know, But we spoke about it, you know, 479 00:29:57,235 --> 00:30:03,285 the days prior, you know, he thought, I don't think I can do it anymore. 480 00:30:03,285 --> 00:30:08,385 And, you know, I was supportive of him in that space and you could see he 481 00:30:08,385 --> 00:30:14,005 probably wasn't going to come out of or recover any better than to try a trial. 482 00:30:14,035 --> 00:30:19,795 You know, it was just, you know, the antibiotics that he was on was just sort 483 00:30:19,795 --> 00:30:21,445 of holding him at that point in time. 484 00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:21,755 So. 485 00:30:22,975 --> 00:30:30,185 So yeah, yeah, he's made that decision himself, which kind of glad he, I'm 486 00:30:30,185 --> 00:30:33,135 sort of happy for him that he got to say, yeah, look, I've had enough. 487 00:30:33,195 --> 00:30:38,785 And so we got that opportunity to bring friends and family in, which was really 488 00:30:38,785 --> 00:30:44,685 lovely and we're at a point in COVID where we're a bit more open and free or back 489 00:30:44,685 --> 00:30:49,185 out and about a little bit and the, and the hospital would drive and they said. 490 00:30:49,525 --> 00:30:51,865 It just bring people in no, no problem at all. 491 00:30:51,875 --> 00:30:55,255 So that was really lovely and he had a heap of friends and family come and 492 00:30:55,935 --> 00:30:59,425 I think he was in and out of probably, you know, knowing who was there and 493 00:30:59,425 --> 00:31:03,455 that, but you know, people sat with him for hours and had chats and that, which 494 00:31:03,455 --> 00:31:07,995 was really lovely and just gave people an opportunity to say goodbye, you 495 00:31:07,995 --> 00:31:09,555 know, which was, which was really nice. 496 00:31:10,055 --> 00:31:15,185 Because he, we, we didn't know is he how his body would just sort of hold on 497 00:31:15,185 --> 00:31:17,855 and, and sort of sustain him, I guess. 498 00:31:17,855 --> 00:31:22,175 And you know, how, you know, how long he'd be able to, I guess, take in 499 00:31:22,175 --> 00:31:23,765 who was there and who was around him. 500 00:31:23,765 --> 00:31:27,245 So it was nice that we had a bit of time before he got to that 501 00:31:27,245 --> 00:31:31,926 point of, uh, yeah, he was, he was, you know, more asleep and just. 502 00:31:32,635 --> 00:31:35,545 Uh, his body was just going through the motions at that back end. 503 00:31:35,545 --> 00:31:36,405 So that was lovely. 504 00:31:36,405 --> 00:31:40,165 I'm, I'm glad that friends and family and I'm glad for dad that he had the 505 00:31:40,165 --> 00:31:45,965 opportunity to say goodbye and hear people and have people, you know, uh, with him. 506 00:31:46,025 --> 00:31:50,585 So yeah, that was, that was sort of dad's, you know, dad's journey. 507 00:31:50,935 --> 00:31:52,595 Catherine Ashton: And were you there when he died? 508 00:31:53,235 --> 00:31:53,705 Yeah. 509 00:31:53,765 --> 00:31:55,855 Something that you hadn't been able to do with your mum? 510 00:31:58,585 --> 00:32:02,519 James Robinson: Yeah, it was, yeah, probably as funny as I was. 511 00:32:03,210 --> 00:32:07,360 Yeah, because you're in and out of, in and out of hospital a fair bit and 512 00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:12,330 I stayed the night a couple of times because, you know, I was thinking, yeah, 513 00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:17,590 I wanted to, I wanted to be there or at least within the vicinity, uh, pretty 514 00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:19,070 hard to sleep on the old hospital chair. 515 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,790 So the, the nurses, it was like a couple of spare rooms, which 516 00:32:22,790 --> 00:32:23,640 I don't think that I meant to. 517 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:28,120 I slept on a bloody, on a bed out to the side, but then, yeah, 518 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,570 it was funny the one night. 519 00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:36,390 I was just a bit cooked and I thought, I think I've got to go home and look, 520 00:32:36,390 --> 00:32:42,720 I debated it, not debated, but I discussed it with Kirsten, until I 521 00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:45,640 come home, you know, cause it's just around the corner, so not far away, 522 00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:49,020 but I'm like, shit, what if he passes? 523 00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:53,950 And I was reflecting on mum and stuff like that, but I actually 524 00:32:53,950 --> 00:32:55,150 did, I got to a point where. 525 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,800 Because I'd been there for probably so long, I'd said to dad, look, 526 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,100 if you want to go, you can go. 527 00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:06,090 I've got, you know, I've got to go home and get some sleep, 528 00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:11,750 which I can laugh about now, but you know, I was, I'd probably. 529 00:33:12,045 --> 00:33:15,305 I thought about it enough where I was comfortable to go, no, I 530 00:33:15,305 --> 00:33:16,925 think, okay, go back to sleep. 531 00:33:16,935 --> 00:33:19,945 Cause how, you know, I knew I was going to be back in the next day and 532 00:33:20,435 --> 00:33:22,345 how long do you do this cycle for? 533 00:33:22,615 --> 00:33:30,055 So I did, yeah, look, I, I, I went home, you know, he, dad was, yeah, he was at 534 00:33:30,445 --> 00:33:35,295 peace at that point in time in terms of, you know, that giving him the medication 535 00:33:35,295 --> 00:33:37,385 and, and painkillers and stuff like that. 536 00:33:37,385 --> 00:33:40,645 So he was in a, in a comfortable position. 537 00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:44,330 Whether or not he could hear me or not, I'm not sure, but 538 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,290 he was non responsive, but, but breathing on his own, just in bed. 539 00:33:48,290 --> 00:33:51,920 And he had been for a handful of days in that sort of state. 540 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,330 So yeah, we're going to say goodbye and went home and then 541 00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:58,610 yeah, it came back the next day. 542 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,600 And so I was quite relieved that I'd slept, no phone calls. 543 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,620 I'd woken up, had something to eat. 544 00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:06,630 Okay. 545 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:07,140 I'll go in. 546 00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:11,740 And so whatever, you know, pretty not early, but I was like, Sort 547 00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:15,690 of keen to get back, obviously to be, be by his side again. 548 00:34:15,690 --> 00:34:20,930 And yeah, he got there and open up the blind and said, good day. 549 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:25,780 And I put on the morning news, a little bit of a routine. 550 00:34:25,780 --> 00:34:31,540 I was in for him and just chat to him and talk about, you know, what was going on. 551 00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:35,880 And it would have been 15, 20 minutes. 552 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,590 And the nurse popped in and said. 553 00:34:38,505 --> 00:34:38,835 , you know, G Day. 554 00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:44,865 Um, and I would've been within three, four minutes of her popping in. 555 00:34:44,865 --> 00:34:49,845 Yeah, maybe I was there for 20 minutes and he stopped breathing, you know, and 556 00:34:49,845 --> 00:34:55,575 so it was this, you know, I was holding his hand and we were just chatting 557 00:34:55,575 --> 00:34:56,870 and had the news on, and, you know. 558 00:34:57,810 --> 00:35:01,520 Brief chat and the nurse just looked at me and she just cried. 559 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,740 She said, you know, he waited for you, you know, cause they, they were wonderful. 560 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:09,450 And they knew that I look, I've got to go home and all that sort of stuff. 561 00:35:09,450 --> 00:35:11,500 So I guess they, they knew the sort of, you know, the 562 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:13,420 background and they were very. 563 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,830 Like they knew, because Dad had been in and out of Peninsular Private for, 564 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,820 jeez, you know, two, two years, two and a half years, so they knew him 565 00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:25,290 really well and, you know, he'd made some really lovely connections with 566 00:35:25,290 --> 00:35:29,040 the, with the nurses in there and, and they knew his background, they knew me 567 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,440 and that, and, and yeah, look, he, it did feel like he'd, he'd waited, you 568 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,970 know, for, for me, which was, yeah. 569 00:35:37,420 --> 00:35:40,340 Catherine Ashton: They do say that hearing is the last sense to go. 570 00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:44,489 James Robinson: Yeah, okay, yeah, so it was. 571 00:35:46,750 --> 00:35:53,340 Yeah, definitely, you know, it was just nice to have walked 572 00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,440 in and said, good morning. 573 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,240 And, and yeah, look whether or not he could hear me, I don't know, but, but 574 00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:04,810 if he could, that's, you know, lovely and yeah, holding his hand and then him, 575 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:06,740 you know, just, just sort of stopping. 576 00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:12,560 He was super peaceful, you know, obviously, you know, you cry at 577 00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:18,195 that point in time and But I was happy as well, you know, that I was 578 00:36:18,195 --> 00:36:22,625 there, but yeah, he did just stop. 579 00:36:22,695 --> 00:36:24,385 It was very peaceful, you know. 580 00:36:25,565 --> 00:36:29,875 The nurse was great, you know, she, she left and you know, you have your, 581 00:36:29,875 --> 00:36:34,805 you have your time there, you know, sitting, you know, sitting with him 582 00:36:34,805 --> 00:36:37,695 and yeah, you get to say goodbye. 583 00:36:37,725 --> 00:36:39,295 So I was, you know, I was, I felt. 584 00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:44,950 Yeah, I felt pretty blessed that I was there, you know, that, that, 585 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:47,710 that he did pass at that point. 586 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,880 Cause I probably, even though I'd said goodbye and went home, I 587 00:36:51,010 --> 00:36:53,710 still would have kicked myself if he had a pass and I wasn't there. 588 00:36:53,830 --> 00:36:59,950 So yeah, look, it was, yeah, I'm really, I'm really comfortable with 589 00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:04,670 dad passing in that moment and, and yeah, I guess I'm at peace with it. 590 00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:11,295 More so because I know I was there, you know, and yeah, maybe you heard me, uh, 591 00:37:11,305 --> 00:37:17,765 which is, which is nice, nice to know or nice to, yeah, just, yeah, it's a 592 00:37:17,765 --> 00:37:25,855 bit of, it's an easier way to, I guess, close, close off on someone passing, 593 00:37:25,885 --> 00:37:28,205 given, given you were there and you. 594 00:37:28,955 --> 00:37:31,935 You've got that opportunity right at that point in time just 595 00:37:31,945 --> 00:37:35,005 to say goodbye, you know, yeah. 596 00:37:35,855 --> 00:37:37,275 Catherine Ashton: And how long did you sit with him for? 597 00:37:38,365 --> 00:37:45,045 James Robinson: Ah, gee, look, maybe it was, phew, maybe it was only half an hour. 598 00:37:45,105 --> 00:37:51,835 It was funny, yeah, like I, I do, you know, even going 599 00:37:51,835 --> 00:37:53,895 into, even my brother as well. 600 00:37:53,895 --> 00:38:00,940 I mean, Mum, once we got in and And saw her, 601 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,660 felt a little bit disconnected on her. 602 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,020 It's a funny, it's a hard, it's a funny thing to think of, you 603 00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:11,780 know, it's like she's already left. 604 00:38:12,250 --> 00:38:17,050 So what I was saying, yeah, it's mum, but it sort of wasn't mum. 605 00:38:17,050 --> 00:38:22,240 So I didn't stay with mum that long, 10, 15 minutes. 606 00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:25,950 My brother, we had to obviously identify, which was, which was pretty tough, but. 607 00:38:27,635 --> 00:38:31,245 You know, again, that was, I didn't feel like I had the need 608 00:38:31,675 --> 00:38:37,305 to, uh, yeah, with mum to stay. 609 00:38:37,305 --> 00:38:40,615 And same with my brother, even though, yeah, that was, the 610 00:38:40,615 --> 00:38:42,185 coroner's in, in Melbourne. 611 00:38:44,425 --> 00:38:45,695 Yeah, that was minutes. 612 00:38:45,955 --> 00:38:48,185 I think I looked at him and walked out. 613 00:38:49,055 --> 00:38:50,865 Catherine Ashton: Did you have to identify his body, 614 00:38:50,915 --> 00:38:51,425 James Robinson: James? 615 00:38:51,595 --> 00:38:52,225 Uh, yeah. 616 00:38:52,375 --> 00:38:52,855 Yes. 617 00:38:52,875 --> 00:38:53,265 Yeah. 618 00:38:53,305 --> 00:38:54,235 That was just part of it. 619 00:38:54,635 --> 00:38:54,725 Yeah. 620 00:38:54,855 --> 00:38:56,265 It's just part of the process. 621 00:38:56,435 --> 00:38:56,615 Yeah. 622 00:38:56,725 --> 00:38:59,625 Cause he was found where he'd taken his life. 623 00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:03,820 And then Um, you know, cause of death and things like that has to go, go through. 624 00:39:03,820 --> 00:39:06,580 So he was in Melbourne when we first saw him. 625 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:07,730 Yeah. 626 00:39:07,810 --> 00:39:11,220 And yeah, mum didn't want to, she didn't want to go in and see him and, 627 00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:17,470 uh, dad and I did, but yeah, I'm kind of glad I did, but I don't feel like I 628 00:39:17,470 --> 00:39:19,670 needed to, you know, reflecting on it. 629 00:39:19,740 --> 00:39:19,980 Yeah. 630 00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:22,740 So with dad, yeah, look, uh, again. 631 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:32,840 You know, I'd had weeks, I guess, preparing for Dad's passing, um, being 632 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,510 with him, you know, for a long time. 633 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,120 You know, when he, you know, when he was communicating, we were chatting and 634 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,410 we were talking about it to him, you know, sort of slipping away, I guess, 635 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,370 and then, and then to passing, I felt like I'd, yeah, I guess made you, made 636 00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:52,190 my peace and said my goodbyes and so. 637 00:39:52,910 --> 00:39:57,490 I, I didn't feel like I had to stay, you know, with him for, 638 00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:59,000 for a long period of time. 639 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,990 It might've been 20 minutes, half hour that I, you know, just said 640 00:40:04,990 --> 00:40:09,640 goodbye again and gave him a hug and a kiss and packed up my things and, 641 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,050 you know, packed up dad's things that were in and around the room. 642 00:40:14,570 --> 00:40:16,090 And yeah, look again, the nurses were great. 643 00:40:18,145 --> 00:40:20,695 It had come in after a period, or no, actually, I think I went 644 00:40:20,695 --> 00:40:23,725 out there and said, Oh, look, I'm comfortable to, to leave now. 645 00:40:23,725 --> 00:40:24,485 Is that okay? 646 00:40:24,485 --> 00:40:30,554 And again, you know, I didn't know the next steps or, or what, you know, what 647 00:40:30,555 --> 00:40:33,755 to do, but at the same time, I wanted to get home to, you know, Kirsten 648 00:40:33,755 --> 00:40:38,905 and the boys and obviously obviously messaged Kirsten just said, that's, 649 00:40:38,945 --> 00:40:40,735 that's passed and I'll see you soon. 650 00:40:42,405 --> 00:40:43,845 So yeah, look, I, I. 651 00:40:45,435 --> 00:40:48,965 And each to their own, but for me, I'd had that period of time with him 652 00:40:48,965 --> 00:40:54,615 that I was comfortable that I didn't need to sit there or be with him for 653 00:40:54,615 --> 00:40:59,035 the next steps in what the hospital would do with, you know, with dad. 654 00:40:59,645 --> 00:41:02,655 And yeah, I wanted to get home to Kirsten and the boys as well 655 00:41:02,655 --> 00:41:04,265 and, you know, and be around them. 656 00:41:04,265 --> 00:41:09,495 And cause yeah, you, you know, that, uh, yeah, how old was 657 00:41:09,495 --> 00:41:10,505 Chet at the time, you know. 658 00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:16,090 Seven and a 5-year-old don't, you know, how are they gonna grab grapple with 659 00:41:16,090 --> 00:41:19,270 their emotions and all that sort of stuff and you know, and Kirsten as well. 660 00:41:19,275 --> 00:41:24,280 And then to start the process of letting your dad's brother know and 661 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:25,960 family members and friends and that. 662 00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:31,510 So, yeah, so I, yeah, I wasn't with him for too long, but I was okay with that. 663 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,830 Catherine Ashton: And just going back to that process of you referring how 664 00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:43,040 you were, you were exceptionally tired and you had obviously been sustaining 665 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,190 this routine that you'd developed with your dad, uh, being at his bedside. 666 00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:51,910 So you mentioned that you would turn the radio on every morning. 667 00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:53,520 James Robinson: Yeah, yeah, that's right. 668 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:54,120 Yeah, yeah. 669 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,680 The TV I'd put on. 670 00:41:55,975 --> 00:42:00,855 I mean, I like my news anyway, but yeah, it was, oh no, you just sort 671 00:42:00,855 --> 00:42:05,785 of felt like you were keeping, you know, keeping them up to date. 672 00:42:06,085 --> 00:42:08,505 Like I was keeping him up to date with what's going on. 673 00:42:08,505 --> 00:42:11,505 And obviously you would talk about, you know, I would talk about the 674 00:42:11,505 --> 00:42:18,535 boys and Kirsten and family and, you know, friends who had reached out. 675 00:42:18,535 --> 00:42:20,855 So I guess you, you know, for me. 676 00:42:23,285 --> 00:42:26,895 Yeah, I was treating dad as if he was still listening and there and 677 00:42:27,385 --> 00:42:30,355 giving him the news of the world and, you know, our world and all that. 678 00:42:30,355 --> 00:42:37,205 So yeah, like I enjoy, it's funny, like I enjoyed going into hospital and being with 679 00:42:37,205 --> 00:42:40,835 him, you know, I enjoyed my time with him. 680 00:42:40,835 --> 00:42:43,875 Like I, you know, brought the boys in and things like that, but. 681 00:42:45,730 --> 00:42:46,550 It's hard for them. 682 00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:50,390 Like they saw him at some pretty tough moments, you know, he lost his hair and 683 00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:56,640 all that sort of stuff and he lost a bit of weight, you know, so you, as much as 684 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,860 we wanted them to be with dad and see dad and dad to see the boys, you know, you, 685 00:43:02,860 --> 00:43:09,215 you are aware of, um, how they process it or Um, Or don't process it and that 686 00:43:09,215 --> 00:43:15,475 exposure to, you know, just hospitals in general and, and, you know, where dad was, 687 00:43:15,575 --> 00:43:22,835 um, um, at that point in time, you know, it, it wasn't grandpa that they knew. 688 00:43:22,835 --> 00:43:26,685 So it was a funny one to sort of grapple with how to manage the boys. 689 00:43:26,685 --> 00:43:32,665 But yeah, look, I got into, you know, just that routine of, of saying dad and, you 690 00:43:32,665 --> 00:43:35,505 know, even when he was well and I was. 691 00:43:35,835 --> 00:43:39,315 Bringing in clothes and magazines and all this sort of stuff. 692 00:43:40,895 --> 00:43:41,245 Yeah. 693 00:43:41,245 --> 00:43:46,725 I, yeah, I just, you know, you just, you just roll with it. 694 00:43:46,765 --> 00:43:47,095 You know, you. 695 00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:52,169 You know, being, being the last, the only child and that sort of stuff, you 696 00:43:52,170 --> 00:43:56,860 know, it was, it was, it was me, you know, I, you know, family and friends 697 00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:02,690 offered and I'm probably thinking about, and I'm sure I took people up on, uh, 698 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:08,420 on offers of help and support and people went in to see dad or would cook food, 699 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:14,070 you know, for us as well, you know, so we, we did have a lot of support, but 700 00:44:14,210 --> 00:44:16,910 you know, I did, yeah, obviously, Yeah. 701 00:44:16,910 --> 00:44:16,920 Absolutely. 702 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:16,929 Absolutely. 703 00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:22,140 Yeah, it, it was me, you know, daily in terms of, you want a 704 00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:25,710 newspaper, do you want me to bring you a coffee, a new pair of jocks, 705 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:26,960 you know, all that sort of stuff. 706 00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:30,030 Uh, motorbike magazine, he always wanted to use motorbike magazine. 707 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,790 Yeah, so you, you know, you do get into a bit of a routine, you know, I 708 00:44:33,790 --> 00:44:40,020 guess, particularly when someone's, you know, at that, that end or close to, 709 00:44:41,060 --> 00:44:42,500 and, and yeah, you're the only child. 710 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:47,620 Catherine Ashton: And when you get to that point where you made that decision to 711 00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:51,430 go, I need to go home and get some sleep. 712 00:44:52,570 --> 00:44:55,550 At what point in time or what were the things that were going through 713 00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:58,020 your mind to make that decision? 714 00:45:00,570 --> 00:45:01,940 And I suppose be comfortable with that 715 00:45:01,940 --> 00:45:02,470 James Robinson: decision. 716 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:02,830 Yeah. 717 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,260 Oh, geez. 718 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:11,050 I don't want to, when I think about it, I mean, I was just a bit mentally 719 00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:17,770 exhausted, you know, and, um, Even though in, you know, I was going home 720 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,260 for the majority of it, but the last couple of nights I'd stayed in the 721 00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:26,020 hospital, you know, it's just not your own bed and it's not with your family. 722 00:45:27,945 --> 00:45:30,825 You know, there's probably the element of having a distraction too, you know, 723 00:45:30,825 --> 00:45:34,285 you, you walk in the door and you got two young boys, you know, it's 724 00:45:35,145 --> 00:45:38,125 their, their life and their things and their toys and they're doing this 725 00:45:38,125 --> 00:45:39,325 and, Hey, dad, come and look at this. 726 00:45:39,335 --> 00:45:44,135 So yeah, putting myself back into my own life probably gave me a bit 727 00:45:44,135 --> 00:45:47,375 of a mental break from, from being with dad and being in the hospital 728 00:45:47,375 --> 00:45:51,605 environment and, and thinking about, you know, all those things. 729 00:45:52,005 --> 00:45:52,345 So. 730 00:45:52,690 --> 00:45:57,450 And look, I probably wasn't, you know, this is me thinking sort of back 731 00:45:57,450 --> 00:46:02,100 looking at it, probably a bit of self preservation, you know, just to reset a 732 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:05,760 bit, give yourself a bit of energy and a chop out because, or else, yeah, you 733 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,060 just burn yourself and then you're not, you're no good, you know, good to anyone. 734 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:15,640 So yeah, look, it was, and look, and like I said, I'd had time, you know, I knew 735 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,800 dad was gonna pass at some point in time. 736 00:46:18,945 --> 00:46:22,975 So I'd really been conscious of saying my goodbyes to him, you know, 737 00:46:23,125 --> 00:46:26,735 quite a lot in the days and the weeks leading up to him passing. 738 00:46:26,735 --> 00:46:29,065 So I did feel pretty comfortable with it. 739 00:46:29,065 --> 00:46:32,005 But yeah, I was often, I was obviously reflecting on mum 740 00:46:32,005 --> 00:46:34,705 too and, and that scenario. 741 00:46:35,295 --> 00:46:36,855 And I didn't want that to happen again. 742 00:46:37,655 --> 00:46:42,505 But I did, I think because I had those, that, that duration 743 00:46:42,505 --> 00:46:45,825 with dad and I said my goodbyes. 744 00:46:45,915 --> 00:46:46,585 Whereas mum 745 00:46:49,755 --> 00:46:57,565 I'm sure I did, but I can't, I can't visually recall it saying goodbye to mum. 746 00:46:57,635 --> 00:47:02,935 I'm sure I did, you know, many, you know, days in the hospital and then knowing 747 00:47:02,935 --> 00:47:04,105 that she wasn't going to come back. 748 00:47:04,105 --> 00:47:06,825 I'm sure I did, but I can't, I can't picture it. 749 00:47:07,775 --> 00:47:12,375 So I was probably pretty mindful of telling dad what I 750 00:47:12,385 --> 00:47:14,925 thought and, and him hearing it. 751 00:47:16,445 --> 00:47:16,835 A lot. 752 00:47:18,675 --> 00:47:23,205 But so yeah, the check out and going home was just for me. 753 00:47:23,215 --> 00:47:25,495 And I knew I was probably just listening to my body. 754 00:47:25,495 --> 00:47:28,455 I knew I was pretty exhausted and just needed my own bed and 755 00:47:28,465 --> 00:47:32,015 some of that family distraction and family time to re energise. 756 00:47:33,305 --> 00:47:36,695 You know come back whether that was going to be for a day or two or a 757 00:47:36,695 --> 00:47:40,565 week who knew at that point in time so yeah, but I was comfortable with 758 00:47:40,565 --> 00:47:45,595 it and I think just because I'd I'd made my peace and said goodbye. 759 00:47:45,605 --> 00:47:49,525 And if he had a past I still would have kicked myself, but I probably would have 760 00:47:50,765 --> 00:47:52,865 You know being comfortable with it as well 761 00:47:54,925 --> 00:48:00,460 Catherine Ashton: But I suppose as you mentioned before The death is just one 762 00:48:00,470 --> 00:48:06,850 aspect of it, because once someone's died, you then had to go home and explain to the 763 00:48:06,850 --> 00:48:10,740 boys, and then ring, you know, your uncle. 764 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,190 James Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. 765 00:48:12,190 --> 00:48:12,720 Yeah. 766 00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:15,910 Yeah. 767 00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:22,560 Like, even thinking about it now, I didn't, yeah, like, I didn't 768 00:48:22,610 --> 00:48:25,340 actually have a plan in place. 769 00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:26,420 It's funny, you know. 770 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:32,710 In terms of organizing funerals, even though I knew dad was about to pass. 771 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,780 Oh, I hadn't even jumped to those next steps. 772 00:48:38,590 --> 00:48:40,350 Catherine Ashton: Had you had conversations with him at 773 00:48:40,350 --> 00:48:40,580 James Robinson: all? 774 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,900 Yeah, he spoke about being cremated. 775 00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:51,230 Um, What else did we talk about? 776 00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:54,490 We did talk about elements of the funeral. 777 00:48:56,655 --> 00:49:00,655 Yeah, I think having the motorbikes there, I'm trying to, trying 778 00:49:00,655 --> 00:49:02,365 to recall our conversations. 779 00:49:06,025 --> 00:49:11,595 I'm sure, I'm sure we, we did have, I know we had conversations about it, but it was 780 00:49:11,595 --> 00:49:14,585 right at the pointy end of dad passing. 781 00:49:15,805 --> 00:49:23,705 Yeah, I remember, I remember him saying, which was, which is funny for dad, but I 782 00:49:23,705 --> 00:49:27,375 remember him saying just out of the blue, you know, you'll, you'll be all right. 783 00:49:27,685 --> 00:49:32,485 There's, there's money that'll be there for you, which was, I found 784 00:49:32,485 --> 00:49:36,215 that quite funny because he's not a big, he was always spending money 785 00:49:36,215 --> 00:49:41,015 on motorbikes, but he was, it was always tight in that space too. 786 00:49:41,015 --> 00:49:45,375 But that was a funny thing that came out right towards the back end, but 787 00:49:45,375 --> 00:49:47,145 we, yeah, we definitely spoke about. 788 00:49:48,130 --> 00:49:51,480 The funeral, but not, not in detail, not in great detail. 789 00:49:52,100 --> 00:49:53,470 Tell me about the motorbikes. 790 00:49:54,220 --> 00:49:57,740 Oh, you know, that was dad, yeah, born on two wheels. 791 00:49:57,740 --> 00:50:03,660 And, you know, he, he raced and, uh, trail bike road and all 792 00:50:03,660 --> 00:50:05,279 sorts of stuff over his years. 793 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,740 And he only stopped when mum had my brother and me. 794 00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:13,159 You know, back in the, in the day, whatever it was, 60s and 70s. 795 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,020 Uh, you know, a lot of people. 796 00:50:15,455 --> 00:50:19,205 In the racing world and all dad's mates, you know, accidents often people 797 00:50:19,205 --> 00:50:20,145 getting killed and things like that. 798 00:50:20,145 --> 00:50:24,955 So mum had said, Oh, look Can you pack up the racing which he didn't 799 00:50:24,955 --> 00:50:26,285 and he went to trail bike riding. 800 00:50:26,285 --> 00:50:32,445 So I Don't know what's what's worse to be honest, but I am a massive that was 801 00:50:32,445 --> 00:50:39,875 his second home AMTRA motorbike club that he part founded back in the day Yeah, he 802 00:50:39,875 --> 00:50:44,425 was still riding the motorbike probably up to six months before he passed, you 803 00:50:44,425 --> 00:50:50,225 know, he had a Road bike that he still got out on yeah, which was pretty amazing 804 00:50:50,225 --> 00:50:54,785 for him You know in his early 70s and yeah, look on that, you know out of all 805 00:50:54,785 --> 00:51:00,855 his mates, you know ride the motorbikes to the funeral and You know sort of show 806 00:51:00,885 --> 00:51:04,985 for the hearst out which was which was really nice and yeah a lot of motorbike 807 00:51:04,985 --> 00:51:08,700 stories I mean, yeah, it was his life really Always a couple of motorbikes 808 00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:12,420 in the garage growing up, uh, as kids. 809 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,740 And yeah, a lot of close, close friends. 810 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:16,750 Yeah. 811 00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:19,080 So that was the motorbike, you know, sort of things. 812 00:51:19,230 --> 00:51:20,880 It was just that, that was dad. 813 00:51:20,890 --> 00:51:20,910 Yeah. 814 00:51:22,155 --> 00:51:22,305 That's 815 00:51:22,305 --> 00:51:22,715 Catherine Ashton: great. 816 00:51:23,555 --> 00:51:29,675 And just going back to, we've touched on the support that you had, uh, when Michael 817 00:51:29,675 --> 00:51:35,035 died, what was the difference between, you know, the support or lack of support 818 00:51:35,035 --> 00:51:40,435 that you had when, when Michael died to when your mum died or when your dad died? 819 00:51:41,985 --> 00:51:48,485 James Robinson: It's funny when I reflect on Yeah, mom and dad passing. 820 00:51:48,485 --> 00:51:50,505 I mean, obviously dad, dad was there with mom. 821 00:51:50,505 --> 00:51:57,525 So we, you know, I really supported dad in, you know, I guess preparing for the 822 00:51:57,765 --> 00:51:59,975 funeral and, and all those elements. 823 00:52:01,725 --> 00:52:02,595 But there was no. 824 00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:09,720 You know, I know you and I have spoken about this, there was no place to go to 825 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,480 find out, okay, what is the first step? 826 00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:13,470 What is the next step? 827 00:52:13,770 --> 00:52:15,210 What should I think about? 828 00:52:17,070 --> 00:52:22,250 So if, in terms of what support was there, there was no support. 829 00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:31,860 Yeah, you know, the hospital asks about, you know, pretty much instantly, 830 00:52:31,860 --> 00:52:37,250 or who's the Funeral director and I shouldn't, I haven't thought about 831 00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:39,820 that, you know, and you're just into it. 832 00:52:39,850 --> 00:52:44,540 It's, yeah, it's a, it's a funny, a funny thing. 833 00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:50,190 No one offered, I mean, not that I can recall, no one offered dad or I 834 00:52:52,310 --> 00:53:00,110 cancelling when mum passed that I can recall, um, no one offered counselling. 835 00:53:00,605 --> 00:53:04,565 You know, when dad passed that I can recall, um, you were just 836 00:53:04,575 --> 00:53:07,445 straight into funeral preparation. 837 00:53:07,515 --> 00:53:12,515 So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a weird period of time. 838 00:53:12,585 --> 00:53:18,055 I mean, I guess I had the benefit of mum passing, so I knew what 839 00:53:18,435 --> 00:53:22,815 to expect and, you know, we used the same, uh, funeral company. 840 00:53:23,885 --> 00:53:29,085 As we did for mum, I used for dad, which was kind of comforting, 841 00:53:29,185 --> 00:53:33,995 I think, because I had already acquainted myself with them during, 842 00:53:34,155 --> 00:53:35,395 during mum and they were wonderful. 843 00:53:35,975 --> 00:53:40,995 And yeah, look, I was exposed to how you go about it with mum passing. 844 00:53:40,995 --> 00:53:45,555 So, you know, sort of prepared in that space, but you're not 845 00:53:45,555 --> 00:53:46,935 prepared at the same time either. 846 00:53:46,935 --> 00:53:50,005 You know, you, you are just, you know, you, you're grieving. 847 00:53:51,585 --> 00:53:56,675 A loved one, and then you just straight into this, oh I've got to select a, 848 00:53:58,205 --> 00:54:01,915 you know, a location, are they going to be cremated, I've got to choose 849 00:54:01,915 --> 00:54:08,165 a coffin, I've got to get a funeral director, am I doing an obituary, 850 00:54:08,195 --> 00:54:10,965 am I posting on social media, media. 851 00:54:12,145 --> 00:54:16,174 Yeah, all these things all of a sudden and, and there's the time, 852 00:54:16,175 --> 00:54:19,345 there's time pressure too that you've got to do this within. 853 00:54:19,435 --> 00:54:20,555 So it's pretty daunting. 854 00:54:20,575 --> 00:54:23,235 You do just fly by the seat of your pants. 855 00:54:24,165 --> 00:54:25,765 You probably make decisions. 856 00:54:27,645 --> 00:54:33,505 I mean, I was really happy with mum's funeral and dad's funeral, but you don't 857 00:54:33,565 --> 00:54:37,335 have the luxury to weigh up options. 858 00:54:37,575 --> 00:54:43,035 You know, you, you sort of, it's like the funeral's just got to happen. 859 00:54:44,060 --> 00:54:46,860 And you've just got to make decisions to keep things moving. 860 00:54:48,590 --> 00:54:51,430 You got to write, you got to ask people to. 861 00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:56,540 To be involved in the funeral, to write speeches, you've got to get photos 862 00:54:56,540 --> 00:55:00,140 ready, you've got to select music, you've got to choose a coffin, you've got to 863 00:55:00,140 --> 00:55:05,340 choose, like, it's, it's a whirlwind of decision making, it probably, you 864 00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:09,830 know, depending on the nature of the, the death and the relationship, you 865 00:55:09,830 --> 00:55:11,660 know, when you're at, at your lowest. 866 00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:18,310 So it's a funny period of time, I mean, you know, Kirsten was wonderful help in 867 00:55:18,310 --> 00:55:23,425 that space and obviously lent on each other and, You know, she's a real doer, 868 00:55:23,855 --> 00:55:29,105 so she helped with decision making for me and selection of music and photos. 869 00:55:29,285 --> 00:55:31,995 But it's a real tough period of time and yeah, you're making 870 00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:33,735 these really snap decisions. 871 00:55:34,925 --> 00:55:38,085 You know, you're not, it's not like you're buying a car and you're shopping 872 00:55:38,085 --> 00:55:42,565 around for options and you know, you've just got to move quite quickly 873 00:55:42,565 --> 00:55:45,225 and, uh, and grieve at the same time. 874 00:55:45,225 --> 00:55:45,611 And 875 00:55:45,611 --> 00:55:48,845 Catherine Ashton: where do you think that, that compulsion 876 00:55:48,855 --> 00:55:50,565 to move quickly comes from? 877 00:55:50,565 --> 00:55:53,810 Where do you Where do you feel that, do you think? 878 00:55:53,860 --> 00:55:54,210 I mean, 879 00:55:54,210 --> 00:55:59,840 James Robinson: I, oh, well, I guess with a, someone passing, you know, there's this 880 00:55:59,870 --> 00:56:04,870 time period where, you know, you've got to have a funeral quite quickly afterwards. 881 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:13,340 So I think just socially you're, you're driven to, you know, you've got aunties 882 00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:18,430 and uncles and other relatives straight away asking questions about, Oh. 883 00:56:18,815 --> 00:56:20,395 What date will the funeral be? 884 00:56:21,145 --> 00:56:22,385 Shit, I haven't even thought about it. 885 00:56:22,385 --> 00:56:23,415 I only died yesterday. 886 00:56:23,475 --> 00:56:30,595 So yeah, I guess there's just this historical Social pressure that a 887 00:56:30,595 --> 00:56:33,125 funeral comes pretty quick after a death. 888 00:56:33,295 --> 00:56:34,235 Typically, I guess. 889 00:56:34,705 --> 00:56:38,245 So yeah, you do, you just move, move pretty quick in that space, 890 00:56:38,305 --> 00:56:41,975 which I think some people would really, really struggle with. 891 00:56:42,035 --> 00:56:44,995 I can imagine again, depending on who's passed away and the 892 00:56:44,995 --> 00:56:46,935 nature of it and the relationship. 893 00:56:46,935 --> 00:56:49,505 I'm sure people look back and go, gee, I wish I did that 894 00:56:49,605 --> 00:56:51,685 funeral completely different. 895 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,970 And I wish I had known XY and said, and I know, and I've mentioned this 896 00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:59,960 to you, I know Kirsten and I had said during, you know, during dad passing 897 00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:04,370 that, gee, there needs to be a one-stop shop that you can go, what's next? 898 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:05,720 What resources? 899 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:07,550 Oh gee, I, I didn't think of that. 900 00:57:07,550 --> 00:57:11,980 That's great that that's there because obviously beyond the funeral, you know, 901 00:57:11,980 --> 00:57:18,510 then you've got assets and you've got bank details and closures and superannuation. 902 00:57:19,905 --> 00:57:25,835 The ATO and, oh, there's so much, you know, and I, with dad, you know, 903 00:57:26,015 --> 00:57:31,385 six months later I was still, you know, trying to close a, I don't know 904 00:57:31,385 --> 00:57:37,385 what it was, an RACV And you're just like, wow, how, how is this so hard? 905 00:57:38,605 --> 00:57:42,365 Or I wish I knew, or why didn't someone tell me six months ago? 906 00:57:42,425 --> 00:57:45,175 Because I could have knocked it on the head instead of dragging it just 907 00:57:45,175 --> 00:57:47,205 drags your grief, grief out, I guess. 908 00:57:48,605 --> 00:57:54,415 Things you, you would hope you could put to bed pretty quick and not worry about 909 00:57:54,565 --> 00:57:59,955 the, yeah, there's process processes to it, um, uh, but they're not easy and 910 00:57:59,955 --> 00:58:02,465 they're not, you don't have a guide. 911 00:58:02,695 --> 00:58:06,955 A guide would be wonderful, you know, uh, and, uh, yeah. 912 00:58:07,015 --> 00:58:09,445 And it's funny that Kirsten and I mentioned it and then, and then 913 00:58:09,445 --> 00:58:13,635 you got in touch, it's required. 914 00:58:13,635 --> 00:58:15,975 It's definitely required because I think it would. 915 00:58:18,215 --> 00:58:24,275 You would just slow down and you would be so much more aware of the process, 916 00:58:24,315 --> 00:58:26,465 the steps, what to think about. 917 00:58:28,435 --> 00:58:32,545 Yeah, I think it would help you make probably far better decisions at 918 00:58:32,545 --> 00:58:36,075 that point in time when, yeah, you're grieving and You know, a loved one. 919 00:58:37,715 --> 00:58:38,105 And 920 00:58:38,385 --> 00:58:41,975 Catherine Ashton: knowing what you know now, have you done anything 921 00:58:41,985 --> 00:58:44,395 to prepare for your own death? 922 00:58:44,785 --> 00:58:46,785 Have you done any end of life planning, 923 00:58:46,785 --> 00:58:47,245 James Robinson: James? 924 00:58:47,255 --> 00:58:48,855 No, which is terrible, isn't it? 925 00:58:49,005 --> 00:58:50,885 Lost three family members and I'm still not planned. 926 00:58:52,585 --> 00:58:57,565 No, I don't know, I think, yes, I should, I know I should. 927 00:58:58,565 --> 00:59:00,925 You know, curse the knife, probably touched on things. 928 00:59:01,470 --> 00:59:07,370 Over the years and, ah, look I'm a bit like mum and dad, like to be cremated 929 00:59:07,370 --> 00:59:13,180 and, like not to be kept on life support if I've got no quality of life, you 930 00:59:13,180 --> 00:59:16,120 don't want to be a burden to others, and that's probably as far as I've 931 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,539 got, yeah, which I know is pretty neat. 932 00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:22,310 Pretty terrible. 933 00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:25,150 Catherine Ashton: And what do you think has, do you think has been the thing 934 00:59:25,150 --> 00:59:31,140 that's held you back from, from being more formal with your, your wishes 935 00:59:31,140 --> 00:59:33,950 and documenting what you choose to do? 936 00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:41,129 James Robinson: Oh, I don't know if there's, nothing's held me back. 937 00:59:41,130 --> 00:59:44,800 I know, you know, particularly with my experiences. 938 00:59:47,235 --> 00:59:50,975 I know I should do it and we both should do it. 939 00:59:51,175 --> 00:59:56,765 Um, Yeah, nothing's really held me back. 940 00:59:56,765 --> 01:00:03,905 I think it's just actually making time to do it, to, to be planned. 941 01:00:04,905 --> 01:00:10,685 We're, we're probably more planned around the, well, if we both went, what would 942 01:00:10,685 --> 01:00:19,405 happen to the boys, you know, but not so much in, you know, wills and things 943 01:00:19,405 --> 01:00:22,255 like that, which again, I should do. 944 01:00:22,255 --> 01:00:22,615 I know. 945 01:00:23,555 --> 01:00:26,375 Well, and truly that I should do it, but yeah, just haven't, 946 01:00:26,805 --> 01:00:29,915 haven't made it a priority as such. 947 01:00:32,805 --> 01:00:37,305 Catherine Ashton: And given the scenarios that you've been in, how 948 01:00:37,325 --> 01:00:44,245 have you found when people offer their support or how can they, how 949 01:00:44,245 --> 01:00:46,015 can they help someone who's grieving? 950 01:00:46,475 --> 01:00:50,515 What have you found that has worked well when someone's come 951 01:00:50,515 --> 01:00:51,945 to you and offered support? 952 01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:54,200 James Robinson: For me, 953 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,470 I guess it, for me it was more just knowing that someone was there. 954 01:01:03,710 --> 01:01:11,620 Yeah, I try, I don't know, just my nature, I probably take on things 955 01:01:11,620 --> 01:01:15,830 and particularly, yeah, during the death, particularly Dad, I, you 956 01:01:15,830 --> 01:01:24,650 know, I think I just carried, uh, my own grief and, and my to do list. 957 01:01:26,715 --> 01:01:33,525 Because I felt responsible for it, but in saying that, I knew that there were family 958 01:01:33,525 --> 01:01:35,245 members there who would offer support. 959 01:01:36,705 --> 01:01:39,965 You know, even Kirsten, you know, being there, but, you 960 01:01:39,965 --> 01:01:41,605 know, and my mates as well. 961 01:01:41,985 --> 01:01:48,655 I knew there were people there, but I didn't feel like I actually had to lean 962 01:01:48,655 --> 01:01:52,455 on them to help or to help me get through. 963 01:01:53,645 --> 01:01:57,165 Either the grieving, or the planning, or the preparation, or the doing, you 964 01:01:57,165 --> 01:01:59,865 know, of what to came after dad passing. 965 01:02:00,235 --> 01:02:05,575 But just, just the knowing that they were there was enough for me. 966 01:02:06,335 --> 01:02:12,445 Yeah, which sounds a bit obvious, that that would be, yeah, but 967 01:02:12,445 --> 01:02:18,235 that, yeah, I didn't feel like I needed to lean on people to do 968 01:02:18,285 --> 01:02:21,009 elements or tasks for me that then. 969 01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:23,810 Yeah, it would make things any better for me. 970 01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:28,940 I just probably carried myself and, and what I needed to do. 971 01:02:29,850 --> 01:02:32,490 I think it just helped me get through it as well. 972 01:02:32,540 --> 01:02:37,194 Knowing that I was probably in control of, you know. 973 01:02:37,585 --> 01:02:41,625 Of everything once dad, dad passed, but certainly not to say that, yeah, 974 01:02:41,625 --> 01:02:44,825 friends and family didn't reach out a lot and offer their support. 975 01:02:45,745 --> 01:02:48,515 Catherine Ashton: You mentioned that there was people making meals 976 01:02:48,515 --> 01:02:48,895 James Robinson: at times. 977 01:02:49,115 --> 01:02:49,605 Yeah. 978 01:02:49,605 --> 01:02:49,875 Yeah. 979 01:02:49,875 --> 01:02:53,935 Look definitely, you know that, you know, that was definitely wonderful, 980 01:02:53,965 --> 01:02:56,565 you know, for both Kirsten and myself. 981 01:02:56,595 --> 01:03:00,015 Yeah, knowing that you've got a fridge full of food. 982 01:03:00,205 --> 01:03:00,775 Yeah, I don't know. 983 01:03:00,775 --> 01:03:03,355 We did that for dad when mum passed, you know. 984 01:03:04,515 --> 01:03:07,855 Dad's a bit of a meat and three veg guy, not much cooking going on. 985 01:03:07,855 --> 01:03:13,295 Mum did most of the cooking, but yeah, I know that was, that would 986 01:03:13,295 --> 01:03:16,275 have been a huge thing for dad. 987 01:03:16,615 --> 01:03:21,725 You know, a, knowing that we were on the doorstep, you know, 50 meters from his 988 01:03:21,725 --> 01:03:28,085 back door, but to take care of some of those really simple, small things in dad's 989 01:03:28,085 --> 01:03:34,385 case, when mum passed, yeah, it would have gone a long way just to relieve some. 990 01:03:34,810 --> 01:03:41,310 pressure for dad because I knew that if we didn't cook anything he probably wouldn't 991 01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:48,060 be eating too much so we probably you know put ourselves in that space not that he 992 01:03:48,060 --> 01:03:54,420 asked for it but yeah look it does and it's such a simple and easy thing and not 993 01:03:54,430 --> 01:03:59,460 that we ever asked people for it but if they offered we didn't say no you know 994 01:03:59,460 --> 01:04:05,805 so Yeah, small things like that, but you know, certainly people, you know, we're 995 01:04:05,805 --> 01:04:11,995 offering photos, stories and insights, you know, for dad or, you know, I reached 996 01:04:11,995 --> 01:04:17,465 out for stories, you know, I reached out to, to his motorbike mates to, you know, 997 01:04:17,795 --> 01:04:22,435 to put stories together and speak at the funeral and, you know, people were, were 998 01:04:22,435 --> 01:04:27,605 certainly, you know, forthcoming for that, which was, which was great, you know, took 999 01:04:27,605 --> 01:04:29,705 a bit of pressure off in that space too. 1000 01:04:32,055 --> 01:04:36,005 Catherine Ashton: What would you say, from your experience, would be 1001 01:04:36,375 --> 01:04:41,505 the most significant challenge that a family faces after someone dies? 1002 01:04:53,315 --> 01:04:57,095 James Robinson: Look, I mean, it depends on Oh, look, I think 1003 01:04:57,615 --> 01:05:01,105 planning the funeral is just huge. 1004 01:05:03,325 --> 01:05:07,535 Particularly, you know, maybe in an unexpected death. 1005 01:05:09,545 --> 01:05:12,095 , there's so many, and again, it's going back to there's not 1006 01:05:12,335 --> 01:05:17,405 a location to just go to, to go, okay, what do I need to do first? 1007 01:05:17,405 --> 01:05:18,965 What's the most important step? 1008 01:05:19,355 --> 01:05:20,315 And then what's the next? 1009 01:05:20,315 --> 01:05:21,245 And then what's the next? 1010 01:05:21,250 --> 01:05:27,755 So, you know, it's bleedingly obvious, but a funeral is just, there's a 1011 01:05:27,755 --> 01:05:32,605 hell of a lot to, it takes a lot of time and, you know, you, you, 1012 01:05:33,085 --> 01:05:35,245 you almost have this pressure that. 1013 01:05:39,220 --> 01:05:45,620 You're trying to do it, do a funeral well for the person who passed, but 1014 01:05:45,620 --> 01:05:50,100 you're almost trying to impress others because there's an audience that goes 1015 01:05:50,110 --> 01:05:53,090 and wants to hear about the individual. 1016 01:05:53,090 --> 01:06:01,100 And so I just, yeah, it's, it's a hard period of time to grieve and to plan 1017 01:06:01,510 --> 01:06:05,140 and to do it justice for that person. 1018 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:12,760 I certainly found, like I wanted to make sure that, you know, that almost all the 1019 01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,790 people in dad's life were acknowledged or that, you know, there were snippets 1020 01:06:15,790 --> 01:06:20,240 in there for that individual who I knew was going to the funeral that 1021 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,100 they could go, Oh, that's when we did this with Ken or whatever it might be. 1022 01:06:24,460 --> 01:06:25,180 So that was hard. 1023 01:06:25,180 --> 01:06:31,050 But Oh, look, for me, it was probably all the stuff afterwards, um, just 1024 01:06:31,050 --> 01:06:33,990 the life packing up their life. 1025 01:06:35,335 --> 01:06:42,285 Oh yeah, from house insurance and car registrations, transferring ownership 1026 01:06:42,305 --> 01:06:52,425 over banks, mobile phones, finding bloody passwords, and although luckily with 1027 01:06:52,425 --> 01:06:58,655 dad he had a million notebooks that had a All these email addresses, all these 1028 01:06:58,655 --> 01:07:04,105 bank details, he, he'd almost when mum passed because mum was sort of managing 1029 01:07:04,105 --> 01:07:10,295 all that stuff, the finances and all that sort of back of house stuff in life, dad 1030 01:07:10,295 --> 01:07:14,935 wrote it all down once mum, so whenever he found a password or a bank account 1031 01:07:15,185 --> 01:07:18,955 or something, he wrote it down in these little journals and notebooks and they 1032 01:07:18,965 --> 01:07:24,075 had handwritten contacts and like, you know, they'd cross them out so they were, 1033 01:07:24,075 --> 01:07:28,780 you know, they were, So organized in that space, you know, I think it's just 1034 01:07:28,790 --> 01:07:35,020 that era So I was fortunate enough that You know find going through the house 1035 01:07:35,020 --> 01:07:40,030 and you know, you're packing up Bits and pieces but finding all these notebooks 1036 01:07:40,030 --> 01:07:46,240 and finding all these passwords people's contact information bank account details 1037 01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:51,275 insurance details You know, I did almost just went through dad's list, but it's, 1038 01:07:51,445 --> 01:07:54,435 it's, it's daunting and it takes time. 1039 01:07:54,695 --> 01:08:01,495 You know, six months later, you're still going, trying to close up superannuations, 1040 01:08:02,195 --> 01:08:09,895 you know, Centrelink and ATO, uh, getting bloody reimbursements from 1041 01:08:10,875 --> 01:08:13,295 car insurance companies, they won't. 1042 01:08:14,540 --> 01:08:19,030 Just drop money into a bank account for, it's like 40 that you don't care of. 1043 01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:24,830 They send you a check, but you can't bank the check because we're with ING 1044 01:08:24,830 --> 01:08:27,020 and they don't have a face to face. 1045 01:08:27,020 --> 01:08:29,680 Like, you know, these things you just don't think of. 1046 01:08:30,060 --> 01:08:33,660 So it's just a process and it's a time consuming process. 1047 01:08:33,660 --> 01:08:41,490 Like I, I had this box or these two boxes of all dad's journals and. 1048 01:08:41,905 --> 01:08:49,215 a million paper statements that they had of mobile phones and bank account details. 1049 01:08:49,215 --> 01:08:56,185 I had this box that sat beside my bed for, God, it would have been 1050 01:08:56,985 --> 01:09:04,265 almost 12 months that I would just slowly go to and go through and, oh 1051 01:09:04,265 --> 01:09:06,445 yeah, I've got to do that, you know. 1052 01:09:06,445 --> 01:09:12,635 So, you know, I did a bulk of it quite quickly, but. 1053 01:09:13,505 --> 01:09:18,575 As time went on, and you just, you just get a bit worn down for the process, and 1054 01:09:19,175 --> 01:09:23,225 particularly dealing with some companies, and you've got this probate, you're 1055 01:09:23,235 --> 01:09:28,845 trying to say on the, how many times you've got to say I, I'm the next to 1056 01:09:28,845 --> 01:09:33,615 kin, I'm the only child, yes, I've got this, yes, I'll send you the original, 1057 01:09:33,615 --> 01:09:36,585 but it's not the original, it's going to be a photocopied version, you know, 1058 01:09:37,585 --> 01:09:43,885 all these It's just processes and steps that legally these firms want you to do. 1059 01:09:44,995 --> 01:09:54,165 It's time and energy and it just, it takes, it takes a lot 1060 01:09:54,165 --> 01:09:56,795 of commitment to get through it. 1061 01:09:56,925 --> 01:09:57,105 Yeah. 1062 01:09:57,105 --> 01:09:58,805 You're packing up someone's life. 1063 01:09:59,875 --> 01:10:00,595 Um. 1064 01:10:01,605 --> 01:10:05,155 Catherine Ashton: And how do you feel that it impacted on your 1065 01:10:05,175 --> 01:10:07,095 grief and your ability to grieve? 1066 01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:15,200 James Robinson: Ah, look, I kind of feel like, um, I've been lucky, I 1067 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:21,160 don't know how to put it, with mum and dad living next door, I could 1068 01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:26,430 take my time going through their house, going through their stuff, 1069 01:10:27,340 --> 01:10:31,200 finding stuff I didn't know existed, finding a lot of my childhood stuff. 1070 01:10:31,255 --> 01:10:42,245 So, I could wander over to their side of the property and 1071 01:10:42,245 --> 01:10:44,285 I could just look at stuff. 1072 01:10:44,425 --> 01:10:49,545 I could stand in the bedroom with the best intentions of packing up a 1073 01:10:49,545 --> 01:10:52,375 wardrobe or a drawer or something. 1074 01:10:52,375 --> 01:10:58,035 But I really had the luxury of time, you know, which I was really 1075 01:10:58,035 --> 01:11:00,005 blessed with when I think about it. 1076 01:11:01,165 --> 01:11:07,825 Because I didn't have to sell a house or rent it out or, you know, they weren't in 1077 01:11:08,625 --> 01:11:12,235 an aged care facility that you just pack up the room and you probably got to move 1078 01:11:12,235 --> 01:11:13,685 on because they've got another client in. 1079 01:11:13,685 --> 01:11:19,095 So yeah, I could wander over anytime I could hang out in the garden, prune some 1080 01:11:19,095 --> 01:11:24,365 roses and you know, think about mom or go in the garage and just look at the 1081 01:11:24,405 --> 01:11:27,515 endless stuff that dad had in his garage. 1082 01:11:28,625 --> 01:11:33,755 Slowly sell bits and pieces that I didn't need or want or 1083 01:11:33,785 --> 01:11:35,765 give to his motorbike mates. 1084 01:11:36,535 --> 01:11:38,975 You know, he still had his car, he still had his caravan, 1085 01:11:38,985 --> 01:11:40,275 he still had his motorbike. 1086 01:11:41,455 --> 01:11:47,465 All these tools, you know, from, Dad was keeping stuff that was 50, 60 years ago. 1087 01:11:47,465 --> 01:11:49,675 You know, when he was a kid he still had stuff. 1088 01:11:49,815 --> 01:11:50,585 It's amazing. 1089 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:56,410 I'm so lucky that he still had, I could reflect on it and give 1090 01:11:56,410 --> 01:11:59,200 myself time to pack up their life. 1091 01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:05,540 So my grieving, you know, was over a long period of time, but it was, 1092 01:12:08,140 --> 01:12:10,400 I felt like I had time to do it. 1093 01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:12,354 And I'm still cleaning, you know, we. 1094 01:12:12,645 --> 01:12:17,655 We since moved all their stuff out of that house and we used that house 1095 01:12:17,865 --> 01:12:23,095 after almost 12 months as an Airbnb and we've got it rented out at the moment, 1096 01:12:23,275 --> 01:12:28,985 which I actually don't enjoy because I can't walk over there and it's, it's 1097 01:12:28,985 --> 01:12:32,465 certainly taken the shine off being at that property where we thought I guess 1098 01:12:32,705 --> 01:12:34,644 mum and dad would be for 20 years. 1099 01:12:34,925 --> 01:12:39,345 And now there's somebody else in the house and I can't just walk over there and 1100 01:12:40,015 --> 01:12:41,755 sort of sit in a space where they were. 1101 01:12:41,785 --> 01:12:47,545 So it's changed, certainly changed, uh, now, but you know, I've got, you 1102 01:12:47,545 --> 01:12:51,485 know, a lot of mum and dad stuff still, and it's in boxes in the shed and, 1103 01:12:52,215 --> 01:12:53,635 you know, we're thinking of moving. 1104 01:12:53,635 --> 01:12:58,165 So I'm now sort of going back through all their stuff and probably 1105 01:12:58,175 --> 01:13:03,720 having a bit more of a, um, Blunt assessment of do I need to keep this? 1106 01:13:03,750 --> 01:13:05,470 You know, is it valuable to me? 1107 01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:06,870 Will my boys cherish it? 1108 01:13:07,050 --> 01:13:08,010 What does it mean? 1109 01:13:09,610 --> 01:13:14,690 So I think you know you in everybody's situation will be different. 1110 01:13:14,690 --> 01:13:20,680 You don't want to rush I Think into making these decisions when you're packing up 1111 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,790 someone's life of what to keep what not to keep I think if you've got the beauty of 1112 01:13:24,790 --> 01:13:33,250 time to a grieve and process it and then their physical things process and think 1113 01:13:33,250 --> 01:13:37,360 about, you know, like I kept all dad's jackets and they're still in my wardrobe. 1114 01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:41,950 Now I look at them two years on, I don't actually think 1115 01:13:41,950 --> 01:13:43,210 I've got a connection to that. 1116 01:13:43,210 --> 01:13:50,070 So I'll pass it on, you know, but maybe in, in haste or in, in grief, 1117 01:13:50,100 --> 01:13:54,210 you know, straight after somebody, if you've got to make snap decisions, 1118 01:13:54,210 --> 01:13:56,350 maybe you wouldn't make the best ones. 1119 01:13:56,350 --> 01:13:59,480 But yeah, I feel for us, I've had. 1120 01:14:00,550 --> 01:14:06,030 Ample time to grieve and come to terms, you know, with, with mum and dad passing. 1121 01:14:06,510 --> 01:14:11,100 And I've had this beautiful time to physically hold their things for a long 1122 01:14:11,100 --> 01:14:16,930 time and decide what means the most to me, what doesn't, do I need to keep 1123 01:14:16,930 --> 01:14:18,630 it, do I need to keep it for the boys? 1124 01:14:18,660 --> 01:14:19,869 Can I donate it? 1125 01:14:19,870 --> 01:14:20,320 Pass it on? 1126 01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:27,090 So yeah, that, that certainly helped in my, in my, you know, loss and grieving. 1127 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,890 Time's been probably on our side in that space. 1128 01:14:30,930 --> 01:14:32,570 Yeah and 1129 01:14:32,570 --> 01:14:37,800 Catherine Ashton: in relation to Michael you were talking about the the fact that 1130 01:14:37,810 --> 01:14:43,360 you look at the place where your parents lived on the property with you and It 1131 01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:48,590 was not The the house that you know, you expected or for them to be there. 1132 01:14:49,130 --> 01:14:53,860 Is there anything with Michael's death, you know Obviously it 1133 01:14:53,860 --> 01:14:56,740 was more of a public suicide. 1134 01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,430 Is there an area that you avoid now or after 1135 01:15:01,430 --> 01:15:02,120 James Robinson: his death? 1136 01:15:02,170 --> 01:15:06,930 Yeah, funny actually there's, it was in Frankston and a, a 1137 01:15:06,940 --> 01:15:10,290 development was underway where he went to and took his life. 1138 01:15:10,700 --> 01:15:14,690 So I don't, I don't go down that street. 1139 01:15:17,010 --> 01:15:19,390 Not that I'm there or in that area often. 1140 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:21,950 I don't feel like I need to, but. 1141 01:15:23,515 --> 01:15:28,585 Same time, I don't, I don't want to, that's a, it's a funny one. 1142 01:15:28,855 --> 01:15:34,095 But then, you know, like we grew up, uh, all our lives at the same house in 1143 01:15:34,105 --> 01:15:38,915 Frankston and a heap of memories, you know, in and around Frankston and I'm 1144 01:15:38,915 --> 01:15:44,285 more than happy to, you know, to drive and I would detour to see our house. 1145 01:15:44,745 --> 01:15:45,035 Yeah. 1146 01:15:45,035 --> 01:15:46,325 So that's, you know, that's fine. 1147 01:15:46,325 --> 01:15:52,425 But yeah, certainly, you know, where he passed, I think I'd been into the, into 1148 01:15:52,425 --> 01:15:59,075 the, into The court wants following and I don't, I don't need to, I don't need 1149 01:15:59,075 --> 01:16:07,145 to, to go back there or feel I want to, but then yeah, at the same time, a street 1150 01:16:07,145 --> 01:16:11,915 that comes off it, I don't drive down there, but I don't think, I don't feel 1151 01:16:11,915 --> 01:16:13,355 like I need to, it's not going to help me. 1152 01:16:13,825 --> 01:16:18,585 Uh, yeah, and that's whatever, over 20 years ago, so yeah, 1153 01:16:19,395 --> 01:16:21,245 it's certainly, yeah, different. 1154 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:26,190 Oh, a different time, different experience, you know, different 1155 01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:34,130 age, different way of passing, which just changes, I guess, how you, how 1156 01:16:34,130 --> 01:16:38,320 you view the death and the passing and your grief and yeah, what you 1157 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:39,900 do and what you do and don't do. 1158 01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:45,130 I think everybody's going to come at it differently with their own experience 1159 01:16:45,350 --> 01:16:50,500 and I think the way in which the person, their loved one has passed, you know. 1160 01:16:52,255 --> 01:16:54,895 You might get time to say goodbye, you might, you might not. 1161 01:16:55,615 --> 01:16:57,575 Might be expected, it might not be. 1162 01:16:57,575 --> 01:17:02,345 I think that's going to certainly dictate how you manage your own grief, 1163 01:17:02,545 --> 01:17:04,355 you know, moving, moving forward. 1164 01:17:04,385 --> 01:17:04,715 Yeah. 1165 01:17:04,755 --> 01:17:09,385 Like for dad, I feel super wrapped that he got time to say goodbye and I feel happy 1166 01:17:09,385 --> 01:17:13,455 and blessed that his friends and family got to come and see him even though he 1167 01:17:13,455 --> 01:17:18,355 wasn't, you know, Ken that they, that they knew from even months ago, at least I was 1168 01:17:18,355 --> 01:17:25,675 still in his presence and his there's, whereas mom, I feel so sad for her that. 1169 01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:32,320 You know, life was taken within a day or two days in terms of really her being 1170 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:39,500 aware, I feel, of what, who was around her and her not being able to say goodbye. 1171 01:17:40,220 --> 01:17:45,550 Knowing her as a person and her character, I feel, she would be looking down, 1172 01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:51,840 kicking herself going Yeah, I did get the opportunity to say goodbye to friends 1173 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,760 and family and, and, and friends and family didn't, I mean, they did, you 1174 01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:00,520 know, people came in, you know, obviously her brothers and sisters came in to 1175 01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:07,000 see her, but yeah, you know, she's well and truly gone by that point in time. 1176 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:12,560 So yeah, I feel, I feel sorry for mum, you know, in that, in that space. 1177 01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:16,200 And then my brother, well, he, he made that decision. 1178 01:18:16,975 --> 01:18:22,775 For whatever reason and probably, you know, I think probably with 1179 01:18:22,775 --> 01:18:25,595 all, a lot of suicides, I guess. 1180 01:18:28,005 --> 01:18:32,715 At that point in time when they make the decision, I don't think they're thinking 1181 01:18:33,515 --> 01:18:35,405 about the impact that it may have. 1182 01:18:35,465 --> 01:18:38,845 And that was his decision, so you can't, yeah, what do you, what do you 1183 01:18:38,845 --> 01:18:40,035 do, you can't do anything about it. 1184 01:18:40,205 --> 01:18:44,105 He'd actually gone to, you know, his mates beforehand and hung out for. 1185 01:18:45,410 --> 01:18:50,240 For dinner and a handful of hours, you know, so maybe that was his way of saying 1186 01:18:50,250 --> 01:18:58,420 goodbye at that point in time It left us a note Handful of words, but I guess 1187 01:18:58,420 --> 01:19:04,600 he said goodbye and it wasn't wasn't our fault, but yeah, no no reason in 1188 01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:11,110 that sense, but Yeah different, you know each each death those three completely 1189 01:19:11,110 --> 01:19:16,470 different, you know for probably People who were close to that person 1190 01:19:16,780 --> 01:19:20,000 and then, yeah, just the death itself. 1191 01:19:20,490 --> 01:19:27,500 Unexpected, expected, you know, accepted, not accepted, you know, yeah. 1192 01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,110 All completely different in that space. 1193 01:19:30,450 --> 01:19:34,630 And then my age, you know, 18. 1194 01:19:36,490 --> 01:19:40,930 So, you know, an unexpected death. 1195 01:19:42,750 --> 01:19:50,330 Um, 20 odd years on, and then to dad being a known outcome, yeah, you just handle it. 1196 01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:52,710 Or you just grieve differently, I think. 1197 01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:59,560 Catherine Ashton: Is there anything else you'd like to add or share with us today? 1198 01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:05,910 James Robinson: No, I mean, look, I touched on it earlier and, you know, on 1199 01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:10,590 the passing of dad, you know, personally touching on God, I wish there was a. 1200 01:20:11,215 --> 01:20:16,295 You know, a one stop shop where you could, you could look ahead and foresee 1201 01:20:16,305 --> 01:20:19,855 some of this to help you decision making and, you know, and then, you know, 1202 01:20:19,855 --> 01:20:26,075 yourself reaching out and I think it's a, you know, not saying it just because 1203 01:20:26,075 --> 01:20:30,375 I'm on the podcast, but it is, it's a, it's an absolutely wonderful idea and 1204 01:20:30,375 --> 01:20:36,225 it's required because, you know, yeah, I had experience in, in deaths, not 1205 01:20:36,235 --> 01:20:43,040 that I wanted to, but, you know, um, You don't have direction and you're, and 1206 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,890 you're just sort of jumping and you're being told by others in the industry, 1207 01:20:46,890 --> 01:20:51,720 particularly, I mean, the funerals for mom and dad were fantastic and I wouldn't 1208 01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:57,960 have changed a thing, um, but I could imagine people would make decisions that 1209 01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:05,720 they would regret, regret in months or years to come based around Who they went 1210 01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:14,120 with in terms of a funeral, um, director and photos or stories or, or how that 1211 01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:18,180 would handle wills or like, there is just, it's such a minefield and there 1212 01:21:18,180 --> 01:21:26,750 really isn't a location to, to find out all of that in one portal or point. 1213 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:32,210 And at the same time, you're not in a mindset where you're going to go, I'm 1214 01:21:32,210 --> 01:21:40,085 going to go and Google all of this and you would just get lost anyway and you 1215 01:21:40,085 --> 01:21:45,065 know there is a clock that ticks between someone dying and having a funeral so 1216 01:21:47,375 --> 01:21:52,315 yeah there's a heap of decisions to make so I think what you're trying to create 1217 01:21:52,625 --> 01:22:00,805 is a is a really fantastic Space for people, you know, particularly if they 1218 01:22:00,825 --> 01:22:07,085 do get to plan or have a time to plan before someone passes, you know, via an 1219 01:22:07,095 --> 01:22:13,235 illness or whatever, if they've got time, you know, an absolute wonderful resource 1220 01:22:13,245 --> 01:22:18,035 for someone to delve into to prepare, not always obviously going to have that, 1221 01:22:18,115 --> 01:22:22,485 that time and energy, but before someone passes, but even then, I think if people 1222 01:22:22,485 --> 01:22:29,680 were aware of he's a place where I can go and, and search and just get some real 1223 01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:34,670 quick, quick answers or some referrals to other websites or organizations 1224 01:22:34,670 --> 01:22:36,710 to help in whatever way they need. 1225 01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:37,580 Yeah. 1226 01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:41,680 I think, I think, you know, absolute, absolutely. 1227 01:22:41,690 --> 01:22:42,420 It's required. 1228 01:22:42,540 --> 01:22:45,800 And it's just not something that you think of when you're in the, 1229 01:22:46,990 --> 01:22:50,760 you know, the, the grief period of losing someone, you just gotta. 1230 01:22:51,845 --> 01:22:56,155 Pick yourself up and move into this other space of preparing for funerals 1231 01:22:56,155 --> 01:23:01,815 and informing friends and family and then potentially packing up someone's 1232 01:23:01,965 --> 01:23:03,635 life and managing that ailment. 1233 01:23:03,635 --> 01:23:05,065 So there's so much to it. 1234 01:23:05,825 --> 01:23:07,155 So I think it's a fantastic. 1235 01:23:07,705 --> 01:23:11,245 Fantastic piece of work and uh, and I really hope it goes well, 1236 01:23:12,805 --> 01:23:13,585 . Catherine Ashton: Thank you, James. 1237 01:23:13,585 --> 01:23:15,025 Well, thank you so much for your time 1238 01:23:15,025 --> 01:23:15,415 James Robinson: today. 1239 01:23:15,625 --> 01:23:16,315 Thanks Catherine. 1240 01:23:16,315 --> 01:23:16,885 Appreciate it. 1241 01:23:17,065 --> 01:23:17,215 You 1242 01:23:20,095 --> 01:23:21,685 Catherine Ashton: enjoyed today's episode of 1243 01:23:25,455 --> 01:23:31,505 If you liked the episode, learnt something new, let us know. 1244 01:23:31,805 --> 01:23:35,405 Send us an email, even tell your friends, subscribe so you 1245 01:23:35,405 --> 01:23:37,145 don't miss out on new episodes. 1246 01:23:37,325 --> 01:23:38,915 If you can spare a few moments. 1247 01:23:39,465 --> 01:23:43,185 Please rate and review us as it helps other people to find the show. 1248 01:23:43,505 --> 01:23:44,855 Are you dying to know more? 1249 01:23:45,005 --> 01:23:48,455 Stay up to date with Don't Dead by signing up to our newsletter 1250 01:23:48,765 --> 01:23:50,355 and follow us on social media. 1251 01:23:50,795 --> 01:23:51,755 Head to don'tbecaughtdead. 1252 01:23:52,715 --> 01:23:56,075 com for more information and loads of resources.
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Resources
- My Loved One Has Died, What Do I Do Now?
Our guide, ‘My Loved One Has Died, What Do I Do Now?’ provides practical steps for the hours and days after a loved one's death. It has a checklist that Danielle refers to in this episode. Download it here.
- Support Services
If you're feeling overwhelmed by grief, find support through our resources and bereavement services here.
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