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About this episode
Welcome to another episode of 'Don't Be Caught Dead' where we shine a light on the topic many of us shy away from – death.
This week, we're joined by a special guest, Jackie Slater, an authorised marriage and funeral celebrant. Jackie's spent over 40 years working in the funeral industry, and her journey in this industry is as intriguing as it is inspiring.
In this episode, Jackie unravels her career journey, from starting as a 'Saturday girl' doing admin work for a funeral director, to becoming the manager of a cemetery and crematorium. Along the way, she's seen it all – from good funerals, to the bad and mediocre ones, which led Jackie to become a funeral celebrant herself. She shares her experiences of working with families to create personal, meaningful ceremonies, and the challenges she's encountered in this process.
We also dive into Jackie's role as the President of the Funeral Celebrants Association of Australia, and how this role intertwines with her duties as a funeral celebrant. Jackie shares insights on the shift from traditional, religious funerals to more personalised, secular ceremonies, and the importance of open conversations about death in our families.
No matter where you are in your understanding or acceptance of death, this episode is sure to provide valuable insights. As always, we're here to encourage open conversations about death, dying, and everything in between.
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
![Podcast Guest - Image](https://criticalinfo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/screenshot-2023-06-29-at-7-53-44-am-wfsnvroiuijx-wfrznjcqfhlk-1.png)
President - Funeral Celebrants Association Australia
Jacqueline Slater or Jackie as she is preferred to be known, is an Authorised Marriage Celebrant, Funeral Celebrant, President - Funeral Celebrants Association Australia and a member of The Celebrant Network.
She has experience in event management, hospitality, and business administration. For the past twenty years she has worked in the funeral industry and is currently working part time in administration for a charity that provides services for adults with disability.
Jackie describes her celebrant services as Ceremonies for Life, Love and Loss.
Summary
Key points from this episode:
- Jackie’s journey from a 'Saturday girl' to a funeral celebrant
- Challenges faced by the families while planning for a ceremony
- The shift from traditional funerals to more personalised ceremonies
- Role of a celebrant in creating a meaningful ceremony
Transcript
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What do you believe is the most
challenging aspect that you've had to work
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00:00:06,150 --> 00:00:08,939
on with people who have lost a loved one?
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00:00:09,629 --> 00:00:12,920
Not knowing what they're
supposed to feel like.
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You get some people who can't stop crying.
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And they say, oh, I can't stop
crying, I can't do anything.
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00:00:21,040 - ... Read More
1
00:00:01,519 --> 00:00:06,150
What do you believe is the most
challenging aspect that you've had to work
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00:00:06,150 --> 00:00:08,939
on with people who have lost a loved one?
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00:00:09,629 --> 00:00:12,920
Not knowing what they're
supposed to feel like.
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00:00:13,649 --> 00:00:17,599
You get some people who can't stop crying.
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And they say, oh, I can't stop
crying, I can't do anything.
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And I say, well that's fine.
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You will eventually, but
you've got to work it out.
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I get other people that I visit
and they say, Oh, I feel terrible.
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I haven't cried yet.
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That was me.
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I haven't.
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Still haven't had this
huge cry from my husband.
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But, in talking to them I find out their
loved one had been ill for quite a while.
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And they'd been preparing for this.
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They knew it was going to happen, they
just didn't know the exact day and time.
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So they've had what, uh, A
great woman that I know said
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to me was anticipatory grief.
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So you've had that, you've had your
grieving every day leading up to it.
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And that made sense to me.
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For the people who are crying all the
time, it's usually, it's come as a shock.
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There's no easy way to die.
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There's no easy way to
have a loved one die.
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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a
podcast encouraging open conversations
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about dying and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to
life because while you may not be ready
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to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin nations
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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.
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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging and extend
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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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Jacqueline Slater, or Jackie as she's
preferred to be known, is an authorised
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marriage celebrant, funeral celebrant,
and president of the Funeral Celebrants
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Association of Australia, and also
a member of the Celebrant Network.
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She has experience in event management,
hospitality, and business administration.
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For the past 40 years she has
worked in the funeral industry.
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Jackie describes her celebrant services
as ceremonies for life, love and loss.
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Thank you for joining us today, Jackie.
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Thank you for having me.
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Now, Jackie, tell me what led you
to become a funeral celebrant?
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Well, it all started over 40
years ago when I was a young
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mum with two young children and
I got a job as a Saturday girl.
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With a funeral director, for anyone
who doesn't know what a Saturday girl
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is, it's someone that goes in, works
on a Saturday, doing admin work.
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And I started out and learned how
to do admin work, how to arrange
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a funeral when a family came in,
because we were just a couple of
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doors down from the local hospital.
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So people would walk down, When they'd
lost someone, walk down straight away
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and say, I need to arrange a funeral.
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The person that I worked for also
owned a local cemetery and crematorium.
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It was independently owned.
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And so, I became the Wednesday girl.
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Bit like a Saturday
girl, but on a Wednesday.
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And it was Wednesday
because that was pay day.
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And they needed someone in the
office and someone to go to the bank.
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My duties and, uh, knowledge
there grew and grew.
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My days there increased and grew and
grew till when the manager retired.
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I became manager of the
cemetery and crematorium.
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And by this time, my duties at the
funeral directors had decreased.
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as my duties at the cemetery
and crematorium had increased.
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Now, working in a cemetery and
a crematorium, you see lots
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and lots and lots of funerals.
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You see good funerals, you see bad
funerals, and you see mediocre funerals.
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And when I say bad, I
saw some really bad ones.
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And what do you mean by bad funerals?
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I'm not going to mention any names here.
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But, of course, I had a member of
the clergy, and I'm not going to say
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which religion, but who was proud
of the fact that they could be in
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and out of the chapel in 11 minutes.
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Wow, and that's the entire
service that they were delivering?
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That's the entire service
that they were delivering.
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Wow, that's not something
to be proud of, is it?
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No, it's not.
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We had people come in and you knew
they did exactly the same service,
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they just changed the names.
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Peace.
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Yeah.
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And I heard it so many times
I could have recited it.
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That's, that's what it was like and
then it was just as civil celebrants
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were starting to do funerals and I
watched the growth of That happening
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and I thought there's got to be a
way to better way to do this It's the
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last time would have that been Jackie.
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How old were your boys and and what
sort of period are we talking about?
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Okay.
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Well, I started You I was the Saturday
girl and the Wednesday girl, and my
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youngest son was 18 months old, and
my eldest son was three and a half.
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And I had a very, very involved
husband who was involved with the,
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with our children, and would look
after them, on Saturdays and school
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holidays and things like that.
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And I had an amazing mum and mother in law
who would look after them during the day.
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And then when they went to school,
they would be picked up after
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school and I would look there.
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So without my family, I
just couldn't have done it.
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I mean, there wasn't the daycare
like there is now, and long
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daycare and things like that.
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So, and my family, my boys
grew up with a very healthy
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attitude to death and funerals.
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And I remember when my, one
of my boys said to me one day,
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so are you working tomorrow?
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And I said, yes.
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And he said, okay.
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Well, when you go to work, will you?
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Stop and say hello to
my first grandad for me.
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Now he's, what he called his first
grandad was my husband's father who'd
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passed away and his mother had remarried.
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And I said, Yes, of course I will.
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Is there anything in particular
you want me to tell him?
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And he said, No, but will you take a
Kit Kat for him in case he gets hungry?
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Oh, that is so cute.
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So, from the time they were very
young, and for special occasions
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like Mother's Day and Christmas Day
and things like that, I would go in,
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because we live very close to the
crematorium, I would go in on those.
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days to top up flower vases that we'd
put out because families, we never
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had enough flower vases and my boys
used to love to come with me to do it.
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Oh, how lovely.
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They'd ask, are we going to do it?
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So, and they have that very
healthy attitude now and it's been
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passed on to my grandchildren.
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Oh, that must be a lovely thing to see.
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It really is.
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It really, really is.
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And so I'm assuming when the boys were
growing up and your husband was there
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to also assist in taking care of them.
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This would have been
around about the 60s, 70s?
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No, this is the 80s.
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This is the 80s, okay.
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Yes.
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But still rare for a man to be doing
those sort of roles in, in that time.
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I was very, very fortunate.
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From the time my boys were
born, Michael was involved.
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And he would do things like, he would
take them out for the day, on his own.
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The only thing you used to say, that
was from the time they were toddlers,
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and the only thing you used to say to
me was, please dress them the same,
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because then if I lose one I can say to
people, have you seen a boy like this?
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Oh, that's hilarious, I love that.
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Fortunately, you never lost one.
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Now, you were mentioning previously that
With the change of roles that you, you
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started off doing the administration and
then you moved over to be more involved
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00:09:02,350 --> 00:09:06,720
in, from the funeral side to more of
the crematorium and cemetery side.
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So tell me about that transition.
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Well, I started out, as I
say, the Wednesday girl.
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There was just one other person in
admin, the manager, and I would help her.
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And then, I would get more things to
do and then, uh, Computers came along
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and she was more involved in, when
Computers first came along, she was
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more involved with learning how to
use it and how we could invo operate
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it efficiently for our business.
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And so that got me involved
in doing more of her roles.
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Then, unfortunately, she got
sick and had to have some time.
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Out of work.
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By this time we got so
busy we had another.
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Girl that worked reception, and I
was asked to take, to fill in the
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manager's role while she was off sick.
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She came back to work for a
while, and I stepped back.
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During the time that she
was off sick, there had been
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plans for above ground burial.
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crypts to be built, so I got very
involved in the building of that.
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Then she came back and I stepped
back a little bit into my, my role.
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I used to see families to, to
word plaques and memorials.
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We still had people who would walk
in there occasionally and want
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to arrange a funeral, so I would
do a funeral arrangement there.
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And then when she finally
retired, I was actually asked
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to take over her role full time.
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So that's how I advanced through.
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It was over a period of a number of
years, it didn't happen overnight.
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From the time I started as the Saturday
Girl to the time that I retired, the
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00:10:51,594 --> 00:10:54,995
first time, I was there over 20 years.
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So that's how I saw a lot of changes
and a lot of coming and going.
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00:11:01,565 --> 00:11:02,355
And, yeah.
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00:11:03,555 --> 00:11:07,835
And tell me about some of those changes
that you, you saw during that period.
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Like, you've just mentioned the fact
that you saw the introduction of
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computers into business administration.
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Yes, saw the introduction of computers.
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As I say, we built above
ground burial crypts.
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So I got very involved in that because in
the area that I live, we have a community
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that are used to having, with their
background, above ground burial groups.
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00:11:32,645 --> 00:11:37,555
So I had to learn all about the
rules, regulations and laws involved
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in what was needed with those.
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And also the thing that the, to
liaise with funeral directors
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to make sure everything had been
done that needed to be done.
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00:11:47,964 --> 00:11:51,074
And what are the sort of things
that, that need to be done?
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00:11:51,344 --> 00:11:55,035
Jackie, just for people who are
unfamiliar with what has to happen
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00:11:55,035 --> 00:12:00,795
when you're organising a funeral and
that communication between the person
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00:12:00,795 --> 00:12:04,314
who's arranging the funeral, perhaps
talk us through that role and then
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the role that you find that you're
then communicating with the director.
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00:12:08,924 --> 00:12:16,194
Okay, so Just for a, a, a general
funeral, what I would say a gen in,
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00:12:16,285 --> 00:12:21,324
in a, a cremation, if someone's passed
away and they're going to be buried
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00:12:21,324 --> 00:12:27,885
or cremated, so hopefully they will
have made prearrangements and their
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family knows exactly what they want.
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00:12:32,765 --> 00:12:37,935
If they haven't, the first
thing the family needs to do is
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to consult a funeral director.
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00:12:42,105 --> 00:12:47,785
Now, the funeral director will meet with
them and will help them and guide them.
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to fill out all the paperwork
that needs to be filled out.
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They'll discuss how they want the
funeral to go, where the ceremony
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is to take place, where the burial,
if it's a burial, where it, where
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00:13:01,804 --> 00:13:03,534
the burial is to take place.
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00:13:04,085 --> 00:13:08,354
They will discuss with them the sort of
coffin that would like, they would like,
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whether or not they would like flowers.
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00:13:11,044 --> 00:13:15,620
And if they do, whether they want, the
funeral director to organize them, or
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00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:17,820
the family wants to organize themselves.
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00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:23,800
Whether they want announcements
in newspapers, or on social media,
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00:13:24,430 --> 00:13:36,469
and a myriad of other, um, um, and
they will ask the family if they
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00:13:36,469 --> 00:13:40,250
want to have a religious service,
or a service with a celebrant.
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00:13:42,319 --> 00:13:48,679
Now these days, more and more, because
people don't go to church as they used to.
205
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,479
As much as they used to.
206
00:13:50,785 --> 00:13:51,005
Mm.
207
00:13:51,999 --> 00:14:01,900
They feel that they don't want to use the
church as a convenience just for burials.
208
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:02,530
Mm.
209
00:14:02,535 --> 00:14:09,340
Or weddings because there is more, more
flexibility now in the sort of service
210
00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:15,880
that you have if you use a celebrant
both with weddings and funerals and.
211
00:14:16,875 --> 00:14:21,875
often with, with funerals not being
held in places of worship, they're
212
00:14:21,885 --> 00:14:23,655
held in all sorts of different places.
213
00:14:24,115 --> 00:14:31,985
They can be held outside, inside, in
halls, in the crematorium, in local
214
00:14:32,285 --> 00:14:35,874
neighborhood halls, all sorts of places.
215
00:14:36,704 --> 00:14:40,415
And is that one of the big things
that you've seen is that transition
216
00:14:40,425 --> 00:14:47,800
from a religious, uh, church based
or faith based, um, ceremony to a
217
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,920
more secular, uh, casual approach?
218
00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:52,840
Yes.
219
00:14:53,099 --> 00:14:53,800
Yes.
220
00:14:53,890 --> 00:14:56,790
It has, there's been, uh,
I've noticed a big swing.
221
00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:08,450
Now, some celebrants will not involve
religion in their service at all.
222
00:15:09,069 --> 00:15:15,619
They say, no, I'm a civil celebrant,
I'm not, I'm not affiliated with
223
00:15:15,619 --> 00:15:17,619
religion, I won't have anything.
224
00:15:18,620 --> 00:15:21,369
But you'll be surprised how many times.
225
00:15:21,830 --> 00:15:25,830
I go and visit with the family, and
I sit down with them and we talk
226
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,680
about the ceremony that they want.
227
00:15:28,030 --> 00:15:31,719
And they say, we don't want
any religion, mum or dad wasn't
228
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,579
religious, they didn't go to church.
229
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:41,270
And then when I'm going down my questions
that I always ask, and I have a printed
230
00:15:41,270 --> 00:15:45,210
sheet, which I go down and ask questions,
to make sure I don't miss anything.
231
00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:50,080
And I will say to them, Now, I
probably know the answer to this,
232
00:15:50,110 --> 00:15:51,600
but I'll ask the question anyway.
233
00:15:51,660 --> 00:15:53,150
Would you like the Lord's Prayer?
234
00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:56,200
Oh yes, you can't have a funeral
without the Lord's Prayer.
235
00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,489
So, I will include the Lord's Prayer.
236
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,120
I will say to them, would
you like the 23rd Psalm?
237
00:16:06,429 --> 00:16:07,100
What's that?
238
00:16:08,630 --> 00:16:11,160
So, I recite the opening lines.
239
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:14,540
Oh yes, yes, mum loved that.
240
00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:18,970
And what are, what are those opening
lines, Jackie, if you could share with us?
241
00:16:19,285 --> 00:16:20,575
The Lord is my shepherd.
242
00:16:20,665 --> 00:16:21,955
I shall not want.
243
00:16:23,345 --> 00:16:25,870
I think they're pretty distinct
opening lines, aren't they?
244
00:16:25,870 --> 00:16:26,550
They are.
245
00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:33,425
They're so I do, if a family would like
that included, I am the type of celebrant
246
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:37,985
that will include that the same way as
if And do you meet with the families?
247
00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:39,155
Okay.
248
00:16:39,605 --> 00:16:43,475
The, the family's been to the funeral
director and they've, they've told
249
00:16:43,475 --> 00:16:49,565
them that they, they want a, a
celebrant to do the funeral sometimes.
250
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:55,560
The funeral director will ring me and
say, we have a family that would like to
251
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:01,070
have a celebrant based, uh, ceremony on
such and such a day, are you available?
252
00:17:01,670 --> 00:17:05,579
I look to my diary and I'll say yes,
I'll take down the details, and I will
253
00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:10,829
contact that family and arrange to
meet with them as soon as suits them.
254
00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:15,240
Sometimes a family get in touch
with me direct and say, Oh, you did
255
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,160
a funeral that we went to, and we
wondered if you'd be available to do a
256
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,059
mum's funeral on such and such a date.
257
00:17:21,649 --> 00:17:22,239
Same thing.
258
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:23,130
Check the diary.
259
00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:24,249
Yes, I'm available.
260
00:17:24,740 --> 00:17:25,494
I take down the date.
261
00:17:25,875 --> 00:17:30,095
The details, and I make an
appointment to go and see the family.
262
00:17:30,965 --> 00:17:35,195
Sometimes it can be the
next day, sometimes it can
263
00:17:35,195 --> 00:17:36,615
be a couple of days later.
264
00:17:37,205 --> 00:17:43,515
Sometimes, and I have had this,
for, with circumstances or
265
00:17:43,515 --> 00:17:47,319
family wishes or whatever, it
can be a week or two weeks later.
266
00:17:48,790 --> 00:17:50,850
But I always meet with the family.
267
00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:55,610
Unless they live a distance away that
is not practical to travel, because
268
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:59,649
that's where they live and they're just
going to come down for the service, then
269
00:17:59,649 --> 00:18:02,530
I will do a Zoom or FaceTime meeting.
270
00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:07,179
But I must admit, I much prefer to
do a face to face meeting if I can.
271
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:11,260
And I don't mind travelling a couple of
hours to get to that face to face meeting.
272
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,180
Wow, that's, that's dedication
for a few hours for a meeting.
273
00:18:17,014 --> 00:18:19,475
And, and tell me, you've
got your checklist that you
274
00:18:19,475 --> 00:18:20,705
go through with the family.
275
00:18:20,925 --> 00:18:23,085
What sort of things are
on that checklist, Jackie?
276
00:18:23,835 --> 00:18:28,264
Okay, well my first checklist that I have
is what I call my inclusions checklist.
277
00:18:29,405 --> 00:18:34,315
So, with that checklist I ask them
what sort of things they would
278
00:18:34,315 --> 00:18:36,165
like to include in the ceremony.
279
00:18:36,704 --> 00:18:38,145
Would they like the Lord's Prayer?
280
00:18:38,145 --> 00:18:40,105
Would they like the 23rd Psalm?
281
00:18:40,635 --> 00:18:42,725
Who is going to be doing the eulogy?
282
00:18:44,055 --> 00:18:47,325
Is it going to be a family
member or friend, or do they
283
00:18:47,325 --> 00:18:48,685
want me to do the whole thing?
284
00:18:49,675 --> 00:18:50,735
So that's another check.
285
00:18:51,695 --> 00:18:56,855
Are they having a slideshow,
they're very popular now, of photos
286
00:18:57,265 --> 00:18:58,935
of the deceased and memories?
287
00:18:58,975 --> 00:19:00,605
Yes, so tick off yes.
288
00:19:00,905 --> 00:19:02,784
And I ask who's going to be preparing it.
289
00:19:03,485 --> 00:19:08,155
Because if it's a family member, I always
like to acknowledge in my ceremony and
290
00:19:08,185 --> 00:19:09,759
thank the family member that's involved.
291
00:19:10,379 --> 00:19:13,710
Has put that together because it
probably wasn't easy for them.
292
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:14,730
So that's a tick.
293
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:21,080
Yeah, are they going to have Reflection
time where we just have some a couple of
294
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,799
quiet moments play a piece of music Well,
everyone can reflect on their memories
295
00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:30,460
of the deceased and at that time too I
always say and if you're a person who
296
00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:35,709
prays You might like to offer a silent
prayer for the deceased name at this
297
00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:42,435
time because you never know tick that
off Are they going to have what What we
298
00:19:42,435 --> 00:19:44,745
call a, what I call a flower placement.
299
00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:49,905
Lots of families these days, as
their personal tribute, like to,
300
00:19:49,915 --> 00:19:53,075
the immediate family, like to place
a single flower on the casket.
301
00:19:54,175 --> 00:19:56,694
So if they're having a flower
placement, I include that.
302
00:19:57,284 --> 00:20:00,135
Do they, if it's a cremation, do
they want the curtains to close?
303
00:20:00,564 --> 00:20:02,034
Or do they want them left open?
304
00:20:02,585 --> 00:20:04,105
Are they having a wake somewhere?
305
00:20:05,105 --> 00:20:11,840
If they are, Do they want me to announce
it and is everyone invited to attend?
306
00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:15,230
Is there anyone special
that would like me to thank?
307
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:18,409
Like a hospital, a nursing home,
a special friend that's looked
308
00:20:18,409 --> 00:20:20,510
after, mum or dad or whatever.
309
00:20:20,819 --> 00:20:23,480
And all those are ticked off my checklist.
310
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:28,530
Then I have a second checklist,
which I call my ceremony checklist.
311
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,280
And I just sit with the
family and we just chat.
312
00:20:33,845 --> 00:20:38,415
Like I'm chatting with you now and
I'm making notes on this checklist as
313
00:20:38,415 --> 00:20:42,225
I'm talking to them And I do explain
to them at the beginning while we are
314
00:20:42,225 --> 00:20:48,155
talking if I'm not looking at you and I'm
writing I'm still listening and taking
315
00:20:48,155 --> 00:20:53,370
down and I go through um, Questions
and gain information and make notes.
316
00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:56,910
Is there anything special that you
want to do within the ceremony?
317
00:20:57,530 --> 00:21:02,330
Is there anything special you would like
to include as a reading or a poem or any
318
00:21:02,330 --> 00:21:04,360
special piece of music that you've chosen?
319
00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,019
And if so, why?
320
00:21:06,635 --> 00:21:08,015
And so on and so forth.
321
00:21:08,775 --> 00:21:15,275
And they may say to me, well, our
grandchildren, you know, they're
322
00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:19,394
not old enough to speak, but they
really would like to do something.
323
00:21:19,905 --> 00:21:28,344
So I suggest that they make a drawing
or write a letter to Grandma or Grandpa.
324
00:21:28,885 --> 00:21:34,185
And They can hand it to me, and we
can go and put it on the coffin.
325
00:21:34,805 --> 00:21:37,965
Sometimes the child wants to hold
my hand and go and do it with me.
326
00:21:38,385 --> 00:21:41,225
Sometimes they want to do
it while I hold their hand.
327
00:21:41,825 --> 00:21:44,024
So it's whatever the family wants.
328
00:21:44,335 --> 00:21:51,725
It's all about designing the ceremony to
suit both the deceased and the family.
329
00:21:53,304 --> 00:21:59,404
Because families come in all shapes,
sizes, and makeup these days.
330
00:21:59,574 --> 00:22:03,004
It's not the nuclear family of
two parents and kids anymore.
331
00:22:05,194 --> 00:22:09,224
And what are the, some of the things
that you find challenging at that
332
00:22:09,225 --> 00:22:15,014
time for families to discuss or
consider in that planning process?
333
00:22:16,544 --> 00:22:23,814
It can be off when the, the deceased
hasn't sort of made any arrangements
334
00:22:23,814 --> 00:22:30,944
in advance and hasn't really written
down their wants and needs in advance.
335
00:22:31,924 --> 00:22:37,214
Sometimes it's difficult for a family to
even work out what they wanted because
336
00:22:38,124 --> 00:22:47,874
I could be sat at a table with, let's
say, four children and one will say, Oh,
337
00:22:47,874 --> 00:22:51,344
well, Mum wanted this because she told me.
338
00:22:52,015 --> 00:22:54,045
And another one said, well,
no, that's not right, because
339
00:22:54,045 --> 00:22:55,685
she told me she wanted this.
340
00:22:55,685 --> 00:23:00,565
And the third one says, well, you're
both wrong, because she told me this.
341
00:23:00,565 --> 00:23:04,125
And the fourth one says, well, she
didn't tell me anything, so I don't know.
342
00:23:04,835 --> 00:23:11,264
But then we, we chat and we find
out, she told one 20 years ago, she
343
00:23:11,265 --> 00:23:15,435
told another one 10 years ago, and
she told the third one last week.
344
00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:22,520
So, actually coming to grips and, and
working out what the deceased actually
345
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,410
wanted can be difficult for them.
346
00:23:24,410 --> 00:23:34,820
Um, it can also be difficult sometimes
if mum or dad has had a, Difficult
347
00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:44,330
life, um, and some of the family think
that mum wouldn't like that included.
348
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,959
For perhaps, mum had, was, mum
or dad was perhaps married very
349
00:23:48,959 --> 00:23:53,059
young, and it wasn't a happy
marriage, it didn't last very long.
350
00:23:53,489 --> 00:24:00,699
There could have been domestic violence
involved or, or anything else like that.
351
00:24:00,869 --> 00:24:01,809
The marriage ended.
352
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:10,270
And then they went on and married
someone else years later who they
353
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,920
had a long and happy marriage with.
354
00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:18,270
and had more children, so, and,
so we might get children from this
355
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:22,700
blended family because she had
some in the first unhappy marriage,
356
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,070
some in the second who've all come
together to make these arrangements.
357
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:31,719
And the, the, some of them will say,
Oh, we don't need to include that
358
00:24:31,719 --> 00:24:36,500
first marriage because, nah, it was
short, it wasn't happy, no need to
359
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:37,650
do it, we don't need to include it.
360
00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:42,480
And others saying, Yes, but
it was a part of her life.
361
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,449
So, You can't just brush
it under the carpet.
362
00:24:46,379 --> 00:24:52,040
So then, I sit and chat with them and
discuss ways that we can acknowledge
363
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,920
that first marriage took place.
364
00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:56,489
Sadly, it didn't last.
365
00:24:56,529 --> 00:24:59,080
We don't have to go into why,
or we don't have to say sadly.
366
00:24:59,460 --> 00:25:04,460
We can just say, unfortunately, or we can
just, just say the marriage didn't last.
367
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:11,330
And she went on, you know, a few years
later she met or he met someone else and
368
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:15,510
we go on to say they had, they developed
a loving and lasting relationship
369
00:25:15,899 --> 00:25:18,330
that went on for however many years.
370
00:25:18,810 --> 00:25:23,999
So it's all about finding what
they want and if they can't agree
371
00:25:24,009 --> 00:25:28,900
wholeheartedly on something,
thinking and suggesting ways that.
372
00:25:29,435 --> 00:25:34,205
They can perhaps be a happy
medium, so that can be quite
373
00:25:34,235 --> 00:25:35,705
challenging for families.
374
00:25:36,065 --> 00:25:40,234
Yeah, it sounds to me that in this what
can be sometimes quite challenging,
375
00:25:40,234 --> 00:25:45,545
Jackie, that you're almost like a gallery
curator and you're curating a collection
376
00:25:45,545 --> 00:25:47,704
of stories and the best way to tell them.
377
00:25:48,144 --> 00:25:50,015
Would that be a fair way of thinking?
378
00:25:50,015 --> 00:25:53,555
That would be, I've never heard it
put like that before, but yes, that
379
00:25:53,565 --> 00:25:55,395
would be a very good way of putting it.
380
00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:59,330
Well, that's, that's
quite the talent you have.
381
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,160
Thank you.
382
00:26:00,980 --> 00:26:05,750
And tell me where you're the
president of the Funeral Celebrants
383
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:07,220
Association of Australia.
384
00:26:07,810 --> 00:26:12,649
So tell me a little bit, well, actually
we haven't even covered off on, on, on how
385
00:26:12,649 --> 00:26:14,949
you got started as a funeral celebrant.
386
00:26:15,379 --> 00:26:17,580
So perhaps we should
talk about that first.
387
00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:18,110
Right.
388
00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:23,559
Well, as I say, I saw those funerals that
were good, bad, and absolutely awful.
389
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:30,645
And in my family, Not just my immediate
family, but also the extended family.
390
00:26:31,295 --> 00:26:35,415
I was the person that was always
asked to do the eulogy at funerals.
391
00:26:35,684 --> 00:26:40,464
So whether it be a church, a religious
funeral, or one in a cemetery or a
392
00:26:40,465 --> 00:26:46,475
crematorium done by someone else, the
family always asked me to do the eulogy
393
00:26:47,025 --> 00:26:52,034
and then my brother in law got sick.
394
00:26:52,665 --> 00:26:55,044
I think it was my brother in law
because it's done so many now.
395
00:26:55,375 --> 00:26:58,235
A family member got sick and
said, Would I do their funeral?
396
00:26:59,949 --> 00:27:02,399
So I said, of course, I
was honoured to be asked.
397
00:27:02,419 --> 00:27:05,909
It was a step up from doing a eulogy.
398
00:27:06,339 --> 00:27:10,630
I'd seen funerals, I knew what,
what I liked and what I didn't like.
399
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,819
So I sat down and I
wrote that first funeral.
400
00:27:15,929 --> 00:27:19,050
I delivered it and it turned
out to be quite a big funeral
401
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,730
and I never looked back.
402
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:25,639
More and more family members, family
members, friends, you know, people.
403
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:28,200
So that's how I got into doing funerals.
404
00:27:28,550 --> 00:27:29,460
And also.
405
00:27:30,085 --> 00:27:35,215
I'm an authorized marriage celebrant,
so I, I do weddings among other things.
406
00:27:35,685 --> 00:27:41,185
And I've even had people say to me
when I've done a wedding that was
407
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:45,325
an absolutely beautiful service,
beautiful ceremony, beautiful wedding.
408
00:27:45,775 --> 00:27:47,455
I don't suppose you do funerals, do you?
409
00:27:47,455 --> 00:27:48,475
And I say, yes.
410
00:27:48,735 --> 00:27:49,165
Yes, I do.
411
00:27:50,115 --> 00:27:52,615
And they'd say, right, I
want you when my time comes.
412
00:27:54,275 --> 00:27:56,575
And tell me, is that a
common thing that happens?
413
00:27:56,965 --> 00:27:59,235
That people say, I like what you've done.
414
00:27:59,945 --> 00:28:02,615
Can you, can you then
come and do this for me?
415
00:28:03,565 --> 00:28:03,995
Yes.
416
00:28:04,855 --> 00:28:05,015
Yep.
417
00:28:06,029 --> 00:28:11,290
And, and that, that, that path that
you've taken of being a, involved in
418
00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:15,759
the funeral industry and then moving
on to become a celebrant, is that
419
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:21,339
a traditional way of doing it or is
it normally people who are marriage
420
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:23,379
celebrants becoming funeral celebrants?
421
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:26,070
What, how does it normally sort of happen?
422
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,660
Happens both ways.
423
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:28,750
Ah, okay.
424
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:30,110
Happens both ways.
425
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,590
Sometimes people start out working
in the funeral industry and go
426
00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:36,289
on to become a funeral celebrant.
427
00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:42,379
Sometimes it's marriage celebrants that
are asked to do a funeral for a member of
428
00:28:42,379 --> 00:28:44,059
a family that they've done a wedding for.
429
00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:49,000
Sometimes people have no prior experience.
430
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,940
They just decide that they
want to be a funeral celebrant
431
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:55,470
and so they, they go for it.
432
00:28:55,910 --> 00:29:01,485
The funerals The celebrant industry
in Australia is not regulated like
433
00:29:01,485 --> 00:29:04,555
the marriage celebrant industry is.
434
00:29:04,975 --> 00:29:08,094
To be a marriage celebrant in Australia
you have to do your training, you have
435
00:29:08,094 --> 00:29:12,445
to apply to the Attorney General's
Department to be authorised, you have
436
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:17,534
to do ongoing professional development
every year, so it's quite involved.
437
00:29:17,535 --> 00:29:20,824
Funeral celebrancy is not like that.
438
00:29:21,824 --> 00:29:25,115
Anyone at all can be a funeral celebrant.
439
00:29:26,205 --> 00:29:34,285
And that is why sometimes they say, a
funeral, a family will say, Oh, we have
440
00:29:34,285 --> 00:29:36,175
a friend that's going to do the funeral.
441
00:29:36,485 --> 00:29:38,135
So the funeral director says, fine.
442
00:29:38,565 --> 00:29:39,795
And they let them get on with it.
443
00:29:39,865 --> 00:29:45,034
And that person might only have been to
three or four funerals in their life.
444
00:29:45,625 --> 00:29:48,405
So they can only go with what they know.
445
00:29:50,045 --> 00:29:56,085
And it might not always be
what a more experienced person.
446
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,890
Funeral celebrant would do.
447
00:29:59,610 --> 00:30:04,020
Funeral celebrant association
Australia is the only celebrant
448
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:08,530
association in Australia that
is only for funeral celebrants.
449
00:30:08,919 --> 00:30:13,869
There are other celebrant Australia,
uh, celebrant associations in
450
00:30:13,870 --> 00:30:16,284
Australia that have funeral celebrants.
451
00:30:16,685 --> 00:30:21,725
celebrants and funeral celebrants as
part of their, under their umbrella,
452
00:30:21,795 --> 00:30:23,525
you know, as part of their association.
453
00:30:23,525 --> 00:30:27,534
But we are the only one that is
purely for funeral celebrants.
454
00:30:28,814 --> 00:30:34,664
So we, we run professional
development workshops every year.
455
00:30:34,925 --> 00:30:39,445
We have days of learning that we run
each year in various states in Australia.
456
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,030
We have a website where anyone can
go to our website and have a look and
457
00:30:44,030 --> 00:30:49,010
that's how people can get in touch
with a celebrant in their area and
458
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,999
there's ideas on there for people.
459
00:30:51,059 --> 00:30:55,855
There's, there's readings,
there's all sorts of information.
460
00:30:55,865 --> 00:31:01,045
There's a plethora of information
on there that anyone who is wanting
461
00:31:01,105 --> 00:31:03,035
to get more information can go to.
462
00:31:04,744 --> 00:31:08,435
There's a few things that just struck
me that you've just said then, Jackie,
463
00:31:08,435 --> 00:31:14,554
and, and, you know, it does always
surprise me when I found out that
464
00:31:14,555 --> 00:31:17,320
funeral celebrants aren't regulated.
465
00:31:17,770 --> 00:31:24,440
And for me, I suppose the reason why
that struck me as surprising is that,
466
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:30,080
you know, with what you've mentioned, the
challenges that people have to navigate
467
00:31:30,410 --> 00:31:35,570
when you're talking to families who may
be blended families and all of those
468
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,480
issues or perhaps complications that
could arise during that period, especially
469
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,220
when you then mix, uh, grief and other
emotions at a very heightened time.
470
00:31:46,845 --> 00:31:51,535
That was a real surprise when I found
out that, that it wasn't regulated.
471
00:31:52,075 --> 00:31:57,015
And the other thing that you were
mentioning where people decide
472
00:31:57,085 --> 00:31:58,615
to become a funeral celebrant.
473
00:31:59,014 --> 00:32:03,895
I know it was something that I was
considering to become a funeral celebrant
474
00:32:03,915 --> 00:32:08,475
when I was looking at a, a role that
I could do with my chronic pain.
475
00:32:09,005 --> 00:32:13,674
And for me, the emotion I realized
was probably too triggering for me
476
00:32:13,965 --> 00:32:15,695
to be that close to the emotion.
477
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,840
But the idea was placed in my head
because my auntie was a funeral celebrant
478
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:27,840
and she said it was the most rewarding
role that she's ever had in her life.
479
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:33,650
And she even showed me these
beautiful scrapbooks that she's
480
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:39,030
been, or she's, she's created
from all of the thank you cards.
481
00:32:39,195 --> 00:32:44,905
from the people and the families that
she's done the funeral services for.
482
00:32:45,205 --> 00:32:47,565
And it was really, really beautiful.
483
00:32:47,955 --> 00:32:53,135
So I can see why people, you know,
do just specialise in funerals.
484
00:32:53,545 --> 00:32:53,815
Mm.
485
00:32:54,175 --> 00:32:54,385
Mm.
486
00:32:55,725 --> 00:32:59,385
To be honest with you, I
personally would like to see that.
487
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,970
funeral celebrants regulated.
488
00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:07,100
I mean, we all know funeral
directors that the funeral directors,
489
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:08,890
funeral industry is regulated.
490
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,200
So I'm not saying that's not because
it is, it's highly regulated.
491
00:33:12,530 --> 00:33:16,799
What I'm talking about not being
regulated are funeral celebrants.
492
00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:24,670
So, you know, anyone can,
can take a funeral ceremony.
493
00:33:26,110 --> 00:33:33,295
I would like to see The industry,
personally, I'm can't, I'm not speaking
494
00:33:33,295 --> 00:33:38,145
for FCAA members or any other celebrants
I know, I'm just speaking for myself.
495
00:33:39,345 --> 00:33:45,660
I personally would like to see it
regulated because you would get,
496
00:33:45,730 --> 00:33:50,760
there would be far more training
involved in the celebrants.
497
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:56,090
They would have to make sure their skills
and their knowledge are kept up to date.
498
00:33:56,390 --> 00:34:00,149
They would have to make sure
that the right thing is done.
499
00:34:00,149 --> 00:34:04,560
They would have to really
put some effort into it.
500
00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:10,670
I mean, I, all my ceremonies are
written for each individual family.
501
00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:12,880
Yes, I have a couple of little things.
502
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,150
that work, that I might use more
often than not, but every single
503
00:34:19,150 --> 00:34:21,160
ceremony is written individually.
504
00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:26,770
I don't have a shelf where there's half
a dozen different ceremonies, and I pick
505
00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:30,920
the one that I think is most improper,
most appropriate, and change the names.
506
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:31,830
I don't do that.
507
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,400
They are all written individually.
508
00:34:33,949 --> 00:34:36,779
So that's something else
that's involved as well as,
509
00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:39,070
You know, all the other things.
510
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:46,110
And I think if people had to do funeral
celebrant training, they were more trained
511
00:34:46,130 --> 00:34:55,705
in poetry and prose, and public speaking,
and, writing because not everybody that
512
00:34:55,725 --> 00:34:57,695
thinks they are is a good public speaker.
513
00:34:58,185 --> 00:35:03,295
And in addition to those qualities
that you just mentioned, is there
514
00:35:03,295 --> 00:35:07,265
anything else that you think
makes a good funeral celebrant?
515
00:35:08,394 --> 00:35:09,004
Empathy.
516
00:35:10,854 --> 00:35:11,374
Empathy.
517
00:35:11,375 --> 00:35:18,855
You have to have empathy with your family,
but you can't let that overtake your life.
518
00:35:19,315 --> 00:35:21,875
You have to have a way of separating.
519
00:35:23,095 --> 00:35:28,125
When you're working and when you're not,
you have to have a good work life balance.
520
00:35:28,645 --> 00:35:30,615
And I think that's very, very important.
521
00:35:31,145 --> 00:35:35,215
I know a lot of us have our own little
thing that we do when we get home from
522
00:35:35,215 --> 00:35:37,285
taking a ceremony or meeting a family.
523
00:35:37,615 --> 00:35:42,234
For me, it's, and it sounds an odd thing
to say, but I go and first thing I do
524
00:35:42,245 --> 00:35:48,280
when I come in, is put my bag down, switch
the kettle on, Go and change my clothes.
525
00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:53,910
Take off my, my ceremony clothes, my
working clothes and put on casual clothes.
526
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:55,870
Make myself a cup of tea.
527
00:35:56,129 --> 00:35:57,830
Sit down with my cup of tea.
528
00:35:58,235 --> 00:36:01,625
And just decompress a little
bit, and then I'm back to work.
529
00:36:02,075 --> 00:36:03,785
But you need to take something.
530
00:36:04,375 --> 00:36:07,565
And I'm never frightened to take
a day off if I've got a spare
531
00:36:07,565 --> 00:36:09,264
day, even if it's during the week.
532
00:36:09,885 --> 00:36:13,704
Because, also being a marriage
celebrant, I often work weekends too, so.
533
00:36:13,795 --> 00:36:14,405
Mmm.
534
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,400
I really like the idea that you
come home and you get changed.
535
00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:20,680
Yeah.
536
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:28,190
I think that's an amazing way of
physically shedding that sort of aspect,
537
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:33,420
uh, and, and that responsibility that
you have, and then sort of reclaiming,
538
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:35,410
I suppose, that, that casual bit.
539
00:36:35,770 --> 00:36:37,570
more comfortable bit for yourself.
540
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:39,550
I can really relate to that.
541
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,280
For me, when I was working in a
corporate environment, that was the
542
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,760
first thing that I used to do was
get out of the, the stockings and the
543
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:53,430
high heels and the skirt and the, the
power dressing, you know, jackets and,
544
00:36:53,540 --> 00:36:59,479
and change because just that simple
process really does change how you feel.
545
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:00,865
It does.
546
00:37:00,865 --> 00:37:02,009
It does.
547
00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:03,060
So that's great.
548
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:06,370
That's really fantastic
advice for, for someone.
549
00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:11,120
And, and one of the other things
that you find that other celebrants
550
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,690
do to set those boundaries and
make sure that they are giving
551
00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:17,399
themselves a little bit of self care.
552
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,530
I know, actually, funnily enough,
on one of our Days of Learning
553
00:37:22,530 --> 00:37:26,130
last year, that was one of the
topics that we covered, self care.
554
00:37:26,449 --> 00:37:33,120
I do know of some people who have a
playlist that they put on in the car.
555
00:37:33,469 --> 00:37:36,769
They have one playlist for when
they're going to do a ceremony, to
556
00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:42,580
sort of put them in the right frame of
mind, and then they have a different
557
00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:48,189
playlist that they play in the car on
the way home to get them out of it.
558
00:37:48,490 --> 00:37:50,930
the ceremonial frame of mind into another.
559
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:55,090
Some, I know, meditate when they get home.
560
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,940
Uh, some go for a walk.
561
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,549
Some actually stop at a coffee shop
on the way home and have coffee.
562
00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:05,140
Those are just some of the simple things.
563
00:38:06,810 --> 00:38:11,580
And tell me about Funeral
Celebrants Association of Australia.
564
00:38:11,890 --> 00:38:13,290
How long has it been running?
565
00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:17,540
And you've mentioned the fact that
it's the only association in Australia
566
00:38:17,540 --> 00:38:22,299
that focuses on funeral celebrants
alone and, and does not focus on
567
00:38:22,349 --> 00:38:26,940
civil celebrants, uh, in relation
to weddings or other ceremonies.
568
00:38:27,210 --> 00:38:30,000
So tell me a little bit about
that history and your involvement
569
00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:31,380
and how that came about.
570
00:38:32,290 --> 00:38:39,180
Okay, it started, the idea sort of came
forward in about two thousand and seven
571
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,009
when there were some celebrants that
did funerals that were involved with a
572
00:38:45,010 --> 00:38:49,339
marriage celebrant organisation and wanted
to sort of get them involved a little bit
573
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:51,370
with funerals and the association didn't.
574
00:38:51,790 --> 00:38:55,570
So, a few celebrants got
together and decided to form an
575
00:38:55,570 --> 00:38:57,470
association purely for funerals.
576
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:05,120
That actually place, the
association began in 2008.
577
00:39:05,530 --> 00:39:09,589
It's incorporated in New South Wales.
578
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:18,200
As a not for profit, so we work under
NSW guidelines in that our constitution
579
00:39:18,660 --> 00:39:23,659
is, and we have a constitution
with things, you know, has to be
580
00:39:23,659 --> 00:39:26,670
registered with Fair Trading in NSW.
581
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,934
And actually, we have just,
uh, in March, uh, registered.
582
00:39:32,425 --> 00:39:34,035
made changes to our constitution.
583
00:39:34,035 --> 00:39:37,755
It was registered with Fairtrade
in New South Wales in March.
584
00:39:38,345 --> 00:39:43,625
And it's grown from just a couple of
people that used to get together in New
585
00:39:43,625 --> 00:39:46,485
South Wales until now it's Australia wide.
586
00:39:47,015 --> 00:39:48,984
In the early days, they
used to have meetings.
587
00:39:48,984 --> 00:39:51,725
They would get together
physically for meetings.
588
00:39:52,210 --> 00:39:55,690
But of course, and then when people
in other states join, they used to
589
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:57,510
have their meetings in other states.
590
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,740
It's always been, uh, one of our aims
has always been, it's a learning place,
591
00:40:03,050 --> 00:40:05,420
but it's also a networking working place.
592
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:07,349
It's a sharing place.
593
00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:13,790
As technology has increased, we now
have, uh, two Facebook groups, an
594
00:40:13,830 --> 00:40:18,349
open Facebook group for everyone and
a closed Facebook group for everyone.
595
00:40:18,620 --> 00:40:23,150
Where our members can ask questions
and of each other and help each other.
596
00:40:24,030 --> 00:40:27,250
Helping, sharing, that's one
of the reasons we're all about.
597
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:30,560
We, our committee meets once a month.
598
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:32,529
We now meet via Zoom.
599
00:40:32,959 --> 00:40:35,620
We, since COVID with the
wonders of technology.
600
00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:39,230
And yeah, we, we're always
there for each other.
601
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:45,560
We reckon if you can't do a, take a
funeral in your area, we're Um, you
602
00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:50,490
may recommend someone that you know
that would suit this family that can.
603
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:57,820
So yes, and it's, I guess we're
all about bringing knowledge to the
604
00:40:57,830 --> 00:41:00,499
public of what they can and can't do.
605
00:41:01,190 --> 00:41:12,990
And also, for a long time, the funeral
celebrants were contacted by funeral
606
00:41:12,990 --> 00:41:15,440
directors on behalf of the family.
607
00:41:16,030 --> 00:41:21,560
And funeral directors tended to
contact the same ones all the time
608
00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:25,030
because they know that one works and
they've got their number on file.
609
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:33,359
So we, we are educating people as well
that you don't have to have the celebrant
610
00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:36,469
that the funeral director says, Oh,
we'll get in touch with this for you.
611
00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:38,410
You can choose your own.
612
00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:41,150
It's your personal choice.
613
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:51,270
And person that you choose will work
with you to make the ceremony fit
614
00:41:51,740 --> 00:41:55,870
the family's wants and needs and
the personality of the person, the
615
00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:57,840
deceased that the person is for.
616
00:41:58,450 --> 00:42:05,100
So we're about bringing knowledge To
the public as well as to Celebrants.
617
00:42:05,850 --> 00:42:10,260
And Jackie, you mentioned previously
that on your website people
618
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:12,720
can search for a celebrant Yes.
619
00:42:12,810 --> 00:42:18,510
Uh, in their local area and find someone
nearby when they, uh, they are making
620
00:42:18,510 --> 00:42:20,190
those inquiries with the celebrant.
621
00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:23,760
What do you think are the, the
key questions that a family should
622
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,170
be asking to find a celebrant
that might suit what they need?
623
00:42:29,690 --> 00:42:30,140
Okay.
624
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:30,905
I would.
625
00:42:33,475 --> 00:42:37,805
If I was choosing my celebrant,
first of all, I would ask them,
626
00:42:38,515 --> 00:42:41,965
do you come and meet me somewhere,
or do I have to come and meet you?
627
00:42:42,025 --> 00:42:43,505
What do I need to bring?
628
00:42:43,555 --> 00:42:49,564
Can I, if I've got any pre
requests, I would say, would
629
00:42:49,564 --> 00:42:51,225
you be comfortable doing this?
630
00:42:51,474 --> 00:42:58,055
For example, I did a ceremony for
a young gentleman who had passed
631
00:42:58,055 --> 00:43:05,000
away, who was well known for his,
let's say, colourful language.
632
00:43:06,140 --> 00:43:06,450
Yeah.
633
00:43:07,490 --> 00:43:12,310
And he had a certain phrase
that he always said when he
634
00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:13,520
was saying goodbye to someone.
635
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:22,459
And it had one of the words in
it that I would not use within my
636
00:43:22,459 --> 00:43:27,130
language, but he used it all the time.
637
00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:33,570
And the family said, at the end
of the ceremony, when you close
638
00:43:33,570 --> 00:43:35,750
it, would you say this phrase?
639
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:40,740
It was what the family wanted.
640
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,770
Yeah, it's not something I would
normally, but it was important to them.
641
00:43:45,830 --> 00:43:51,119
So what I did was, I did say that
phrase with a colorful word, but I
642
00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:57,000
said, this is not something that I
would say, but in the words of, use
643
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:58,769
the deceased name, and then used it.
644
00:43:59,990 --> 00:44:01,079
So you need to find it.
645
00:44:01,090 --> 00:44:06,800
If you've, if you've, you're a family that
has a person like that in their family,
646
00:44:07,420 --> 00:44:10,750
I would talk to your celebrant and say,
would you be comfortable doing this?
647
00:44:10,750 --> 00:44:14,190
Because if they say, oh no,
they're not the celebrant for you.
648
00:44:14,940 --> 00:44:15,400
Yeah, that's true.
649
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,630
I would ask, if you're a family that
wants some religious content like the
650
00:44:19,630 --> 00:44:24,070
Lord's Prayer, the Twenty Third Psalm,
or a Bible reading, ask your celibate
651
00:44:25,110 --> 00:44:26,959
would they be comfortable doing that?
652
00:44:27,779 --> 00:44:30,150
Because that way you'll
find out yes or no.
653
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,879
Because you don't want
someone that's not going to be
654
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,339
comfortable doing what you want.
655
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,900
So they're the sorts of
questions that I would ask.
656
00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:40,970
No, that, that's, that's
really good advice, Jacqui.
657
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:42,110
Thank you very much.
658
00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:44,670
Now here's a question for you, Jacqui.
659
00:44:45,645 --> 00:44:48,705
What have you done to actually
prepare for your own funeral?
660
00:44:50,155 --> 00:44:58,345
Well, I have my funeral
arrangements made and paid for.
661
00:44:59,374 --> 00:45:05,275
I have my plot in the
crematorium chosen and paid for.
662
00:45:06,175 --> 00:45:11,735
It's all in a file in my
filing cabinet in my office.
663
00:45:12,445 --> 00:45:16,005
And I've taken both my sons, when
they visited, I've said, come with me.
664
00:45:16,025 --> 00:45:18,345
And I've said, this is
the file that you need.
665
00:45:20,385 --> 00:45:25,145
Now, it was something that
I was always going to do.
666
00:45:26,154 --> 00:45:28,894
And lots of people are always going to do.
667
00:45:28,895 --> 00:45:30,765
We're great gunners, aren't we, people?
668
00:45:30,845 --> 00:45:33,045
You know, there's always
things we're going to do.
669
00:45:33,285 --> 00:45:33,625
Yeah.
670
00:45:33,645 --> 00:45:37,569
Well, in 2022, I went to
a celebrants conference.
671
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:39,080
in Adelaide.
672
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,620
It was a marriage celebrants conference.
673
00:45:41,540 --> 00:45:46,030
And my husband always used to go to these
conferences with me because he, my best
674
00:45:46,030 --> 00:45:50,020
friend is a celebrant in Queensland and
her husband used to go with her and the
675
00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:51,900
boys would catch up and have a great time.
676
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,839
My husband had, uh, was ill.
677
00:45:56,145 --> 00:45:59,575
That was a progressive illness and
he decided he wasn't going to go with
678
00:45:59,575 --> 00:46:05,755
me because the weather, if it got to
his chest, he had a lung condition.
679
00:46:05,795 --> 00:46:09,725
And so he said, I'm not going
to go, but you still go.
680
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:14,460
So I took my sister as a traveling
companion, and off I went, and I
681
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:18,070
spoke to him while I was away, but
I had a day that I couldn't get hold
682
00:46:18,070 --> 00:46:21,270
of him, and the day I was traveling
home, I couldn't get hold of him.
683
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,659
Now unfortunately, I came home
to find that he had passed away.
684
00:46:26,910 --> 00:46:27,620
Oh, Jackie.
685
00:46:28,210 --> 00:46:33,640
So I had to make his arrangements,
and then once his service was over,
686
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:38,505
I said, You know, a couple of months
later I said, I just woke up one day
687
00:46:38,505 --> 00:46:40,055
and today was the day I had to do it.
688
00:46:40,115 --> 00:46:42,795
I just felt it within myself, I
had to do it, so I went and did it.
689
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:52,070
So that's so I have prepared as much as
I possibly can and and that's the thing
690
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:57,960
is that you know There's those tasks
that we always say that we'll do when We
691
00:46:57,969 --> 00:47:05,850
have the holidays or when we have some
time off In your case, I believe you're
692
00:47:05,850 --> 00:47:09,575
on your Second career, is that correct?
693
00:47:09,975 --> 00:47:11,015
Are you retired?
694
00:47:11,025 --> 00:47:16,135
You mentioned retirement before
and Well, I retired from the
695
00:47:16,135 --> 00:47:18,964
cemetery and crematorium.
696
00:47:19,645 --> 00:47:22,665
Some of us aren't meant for
retirement and staying home all
697
00:47:22,665 --> 00:47:23,934
day just didn't agree with me.
698
00:47:25,230 --> 00:47:32,620
So, I went to work part time for a
charity for disabled adults, and I
699
00:47:32,620 --> 00:47:37,840
used to do the payroll for the people,
the, the disabled adults that worked
700
00:47:37,950 --> 00:47:40,930
in the, uh, in the organization.
701
00:47:41,619 --> 00:47:45,360
And, you know, I just went for a little
while and I ended up being there.
702
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:48,460
I went on mater to fill in for
someone on maternity leave and
703
00:47:48,460 --> 00:47:49,850
ended up being there ten years.
704
00:47:49,850 --> 00:47:50,020
Thanks.
705
00:47:51,540 --> 00:47:57,270
So then I retired again from that and
we did a little bit of traveling and
706
00:47:57,270 --> 00:48:01,180
then I came back and during that It
was during that time that I had become
707
00:48:01,180 --> 00:48:02,670
authorised as a marriage celebrant.
708
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,730
So I was doing marriages right there.
709
00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:08,119
And then the funeral
started coming in as well.
710
00:48:08,590 --> 00:48:11,519
So I thought, Oh, so I
retired for a second time.
711
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,950
So really I'm on my third career.
712
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,029
That's great to hear.
713
00:48:16,189 --> 00:48:17,529
That's, that's fantastic.
714
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:23,260
Now, what do you believe you've touched
on a few of them, but, but what do
715
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:27,530
you believe is the most challenging
aspect that you've had to work on?
716
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:30,390
With people who have lost a loved one.
717
00:48:31,070 --> 00:48:39,770
Not knowing how to They're supposed to
do what they're supposed to feel like.
718
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:47,140
You get some people who Can't stop
crying and they say I can't stop crying.
719
00:48:47,150 --> 00:48:51,890
I can't do anything and I said,
well, that's fine You will eventually
720
00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:53,099
but you've got to work it out.
721
00:48:53,690 --> 00:48:58,000
I get other people that I visit and they
say I feel terrible I haven't cried yet.
722
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:59,190
That was me.
723
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:07,580
I Haven't Still haven't had this huge
cry from my husband, but in talking
724
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:12,290
to them, I find out their loved
one had been ill for quite a while,
725
00:49:12,980 --> 00:49:14,870
and they'd been preparing for this.
726
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:18,590
They knew it was going to happen, they
just didn't know the exact day and time.
727
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:24,350
So they've had what, uh, a
great woman that I know said
728
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:26,890
to me was anticipatory grief.
729
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:28,569
So you've had that.
730
00:49:29,110 --> 00:49:33,140
You, you've had your grieving
every day leading up to it.
731
00:49:33,850 --> 00:49:35,120
And that made sense to me.
732
00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:39,379
For the people who are crying all the
time, it's usually, it's come as a shock.
733
00:49:40,779 --> 00:49:42,210
There's no easy way to die.
734
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,900
There's no easy way to
have a loved one die.
735
00:49:46,169 --> 00:49:49,980
For some people, it happens very suddenly.
736
00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:53,800
And the deceased doesn't suffer.
737
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,660
But the family does because they
haven't had time to do and say
738
00:49:57,660 --> 00:49:59,130
everything that they would want to do.
739
00:50:00,550 --> 00:50:04,270
For some people, some families,
it takes quite a while.
740
00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:13,160
And the family doesn't, let's use the word
suffer again, but that's not what I mean.
741
00:50:13,550 --> 00:50:18,760
But the family doesn't maybe feel it
as, as keenly because they've had time
742
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,720
to do and say everything that they want
to do and say and prepare themselves.
743
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:31,380
But the person who passes away may
have had, may have, once again we'll
744
00:50:31,380 --> 00:50:38,779
use the word suffer, may have had,
uh, not the, the best few months or
745
00:50:38,860 --> 00:50:41,110
weeks or days before they've gone.
746
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:48,239
So, sorting that out can be quite a
challenge with families and people that
747
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,459
I visit and that, that I work with.
748
00:50:51,099 --> 00:50:53,039
And I'm never afraid to say, I don't know.
749
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:57,750
If they ask me a question, should I do
this, should I not do that, should I,
750
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:59,850
should I, I would say, I don't know.
751
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,180
You have to do what's right for you.
752
00:51:03,340 --> 00:51:05,270
I don't pretend to be a grief counsellor.
753
00:51:06,419 --> 00:51:10,299
I don't pretend to be a
therapist or anything like that.
754
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:16,060
But I can say, if you would like me to, I
can maybe look for some resources that may
755
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:19,380
be of help to you and pass them on to you.
756
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:22,130
I don't know everything.
757
00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:22,560
I don't know.
758
00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:24,020
I'm not trained in any of that.
759
00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:26,160
So I don't, that's not
my area of expertise.
760
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,700
I don't try and pretend that it is.
761
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,640
So, yeah, that can be quite challenging.
762
00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:36,849
And is there, in your experience, would
you say there's an, you've seen an
763
00:51:36,899 --> 00:51:40,380
optimal time in which to have a funeral?
764
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:46,590
Like is it sooner or waiting a few
weeks or is it totally dependent?
765
00:51:46,590 --> 00:51:46,629
Dependent.
766
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:47,760
It suits the family.
767
00:51:48,730 --> 00:51:50,270
Whatever suits the family.
768
00:51:52,340 --> 00:51:54,660
Some people want to have it
and get it over and done with,
769
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,970
so that it doesn't linger on.
770
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,680
They don't want it to linger.
771
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:07,039
For some, for some reason, family may
live overseas and they have to come from
772
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,939
overseas, or they may be away on holidays.
773
00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:14,430
Cruising's a popular way to have
holidays these days, and if you're on
774
00:52:14,430 --> 00:52:16,840
a cruise somewhere, you can't get home.
775
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,570
It depends what the
family has spoken about.
776
00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:22,510
what preparations have
been made in advance.
777
00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:27,400
Some religious faiths have to have
their funeral ceremonies held within
778
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,670
so many hours or so many days.
779
00:52:30,090 --> 00:52:36,099
So that's quite often that
is normal practice for them.
780
00:52:36,750 --> 00:52:42,340
Other people really, it's,
it's personal preference.
781
00:52:42,690 --> 00:52:43,690
It's personal preference.
782
00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:47,680
And I often think you really
don't know what you would do until
783
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:48,849
you're in that person's shoes.
784
00:52:51,980 --> 00:52:56,850
And is there any advice, additional
advice that you'd provide, given your
785
00:52:56,850 --> 00:52:58,969
experience and what you've seen, Jackie?
786
00:52:59,500 --> 00:53:00,050
Prepare.
787
00:53:01,620 --> 00:53:02,100
Prepare.
788
00:53:02,730 --> 00:53:06,919
I work with families, if they would
like me to, I work with families
789
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:09,830
where they can contact me in advance.
790
00:53:09,830 --> 00:53:13,460
I have some literature that they can
read and fill out and put aside and
791
00:53:13,460 --> 00:53:14,890
tell their family they've done it.
792
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:20,360
So that when The person passes
away, all the family has to do is
793
00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:24,240
go and grab that little booklet and
everything is there that they need.
794
00:53:24,690 --> 00:53:29,840
The documents that they need is,
uh, is listed in that literature,
795
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:33,280
and they can get them all ready,
like birth certificates and marriage
796
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,480
certificates and, and, uh, name, where
they were born, where they went to,
797
00:53:38,649 --> 00:53:39,970
you know, all those sorts of things.
798
00:53:40,229 --> 00:53:44,039
Also, the questions in there help,
would help the celebrant prepare
799
00:53:44,729 --> 00:53:47,659
for their ceremony, and also the
person that's doing their eulogy.
800
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,179
Lots of questions.
801
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:52,990
Celebrants do things like that
now, but it's, it's very, very
802
00:53:52,990 --> 00:53:54,860
helpful to have everything there.
803
00:53:54,930 --> 00:53:57,650
It just makes it so much easy for them.
804
00:53:58,140 --> 00:54:02,539
So yeah, as much as people can prepare
and look into things and don't be
805
00:54:02,539 --> 00:54:03,920
frightened to talk about death.
806
00:54:04,470 --> 00:54:06,819
Just because you talk about it
doesn't mean it's going to happen.
807
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:13,290
I mean, I have sons that have been
talking about it since they were talk
808
00:54:13,690 --> 00:54:17,450
and they're now in their mid forties
and it hasn't happened to them, you
809
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:20,280
know, so just because you talk about
it doesn't mean it's going to happen.
810
00:54:21,015 --> 00:54:24,465
There's also don't brush off children.
811
00:54:25,095 --> 00:54:30,845
If children ask questions about death,
answer them as honestly as you can.
812
00:54:31,444 --> 00:54:36,165
There's lots of literature that
you can get for books to read to
813
00:54:36,165 --> 00:54:37,725
children and to tell children.
814
00:54:38,705 --> 00:54:41,955
If children want to go to,
give children the opportunity.
815
00:54:42,625 --> 00:54:43,845
To go to a funeral.
816
00:54:44,455 --> 00:54:46,025
Don't tell them they can't go.
817
00:54:46,365 --> 00:54:49,235
Don't push them off to school or
to a friend's to have the funeral
818
00:54:49,265 --> 00:54:51,755
and then let them be involved.
819
00:54:52,534 --> 00:54:56,545
Children are far more knowledgeable
than we give them credit for.
820
00:54:56,845 --> 00:55:00,924
They can handle far more than we
give them credit for and it hurts
821
00:55:00,924 --> 00:55:05,775
them more if they found out that
they've been told stories or untruths.
822
00:55:06,905 --> 00:55:13,825
They will ask the questions their little
brain and knowledge set needs to know.
823
00:55:15,075 --> 00:55:17,155
And don't fob them off.
824
00:55:17,495 --> 00:55:21,755
And I think if you do those sorts of
things, you're fostering a healthy
825
00:55:21,755 --> 00:55:25,404
attitude to, to death and dying.
826
00:55:25,494 --> 00:55:28,935
Because let's face it,
it comes to all of us.
827
00:55:30,234 --> 00:55:31,725
There's no way we can avoid it.
828
00:55:33,925 --> 00:55:37,824
Well, Jackie, I think that's a beautiful
way in which to end the interview.
829
00:55:38,245 --> 00:55:39,842
so much for being on top of this today.
830
00:55:39,842 --> 00:55:40,455
for having me.
831
00:55:44,100 --> 00:55:47,520
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,
832
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,420
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833
00:55:50,359 --> 00:55:54,620
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834
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:56,420
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835
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,029
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836
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:02,070
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837
00:56:02,220 --> 00:56:06,360
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00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,130
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00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:09,750
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841
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