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Susan Bollard: I was holding his hand, I realised that he was fading away.
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I saw a small mustard cloud
emanate from his chest.
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I thought through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
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It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
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I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
... Read More

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Susan Bollard: I was holding his hand, I realised that he was fading away.
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00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,390
I saw a small mustard cloud
emanate from his chest.
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I thought through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
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It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
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I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
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or so before he actually died.
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Catherine Ashton: Welcome to
Don't Be Caught Dead, a podcast
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00:00:24,984 --> 00:00:29,094
encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to life.
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Because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin Nations
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and recognises their connection to land, sea and community.
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We pay our respects to their Elders, past, present and emerging and extend
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that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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Susan Bollard believes everyone deserves a chance to learn to dance.
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Susan purchased Showbiz
Dance Studio in 1990.
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It is Frankston's longest running, most successful dance studio.
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Susan and her team of instructors are passionate about dance, and whether it's
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salsa, waltz, rock and roll or cha cha, her studio is the place for the local
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community to learn socially dancing.
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Even if it's at a slower pace
for her all abilities classes.
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However, when Susan's landscape designer husband Phil died, she
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found out that she was the one that had to learn many things herself.
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This is Susan's story.
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Thanks for joining us today, Susan.
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No, thank you for inviting me.
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Now Susan, can you please tell me about the time someone close to you died?
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Susan Bollard: I think given that I'm a baby boomer, there would be
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several instances I could tell you about, all with different outcomes.
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But most recently, my husband
died nearly three years ago.
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He had been one of the fittest men you could ever come across.
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He should have been the pin
up boy for men's health.
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He had a habit of every year when he bought a diary, he'd open to the same
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date in June and write that date down and organise to have an annual medical.
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And for the 23 years we were together, I think he had that every year
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for 23 years, for medical workup, blood tests, because he always
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talked about having baseline data.
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He said if you're going to get sick.
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You need to know what the
situation was like before.
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He wasn't a drinker, he wasn't a smoker, and he was a really fit man.
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And as it came as a real shock that he moved the trailer one day, he
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said, I've got a pain in the back.
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That was on a Sunday.
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The following Thursday, he
said, my back's still hurting.
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It's better to go to the doctor.
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He went on Friday.
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And on the Monday, he was diagnosed with final stage pancreatic cancer.
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So a real shock to, um, to us as a couple, uh, with a really, really fit
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man and no signs of ill health at all.
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But.
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That's the way with pancreatic cancer.
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And what happened
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Catherine Ashton: after you
received that diagnosis?
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Susan Bollard: Oh, life
went into free fall.
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It was in COVID times.
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So we Got the, uh, the initial scan that
it showed that he had pancreatic cancer.
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The only way, because it's very
difficult to diagnose, was that
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they had to do some surgery.
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So he was in it to the Cabrini Hospital, and the specialist was going to put a
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telescopic instrument down, have a little bit of a look at the situation, and make
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a determination of what would happen next.
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Because none of the MRIs or CAT
scans give a definitive answer.
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The surgery proceeded without
me being at the hospital.
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I wasn't allowed to go up there
because of the COVID restrictions.
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The telescope went down, they
did all of their observation.
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Everything showed that because the cancer hadn't moved into Phil's abdomen, that
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it would be, uh, pragmatic to remove, uh, the cancer, and the diagnosis
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perforated Phil's abdomen.
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surgery ceased at that stage.
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realisation of the situation that was somewhat difficult for him.
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They eventually, when he asked, found him a social worker.
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So I think it says a lot about
maybe some needs during COVID
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with major hospitals too.
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He talked to a social worker.
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And, uh, he'd been told he was
going to die, but there was no one
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to, to really talk it over with.
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So eventually I got a phone call to say, he's quite restless, and I'm surprised
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that they thought that would be strange with that sort of information, and asked
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me if I could come up almost immediately.
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And I was teaching from home luckily, so I just got in the car and drove
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up, and spent a couple of hours with
him up there and, and talked it over,
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and that was the first time that he'd really Had an opportunity to process
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it with anyone, and then he was sent home a couple of days later again.
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It was all because of COVID, quite bizarre, but just drive up and someone
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would deliver him to the front door.
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And then I put him in the car and off we went home again, no support really
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at all from the hospital or anyone else.
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The, um, surgeon had said, uh, must have spoken to us, we must have had
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an interview with him after that.
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And he'd said, look, really the best thing you could do is just go home and enjoy
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the rest of the time that you've got left.
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Uh, but we were referred to an oncologist and she had a completely counter
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perspective on the whole thing and said, no, surgeons are just slice and dice.
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If they can't fix you one way,
they're not interested, but of course
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you've got to have chemotherapy.
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And we got caught up in a whirlwind of surgeon's advice of just enjoy the
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time you've got or the chemotherapy where he was very, very ill.
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It's a very invasive program.
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It turned out that that also,
a full cycle of chemo, showed
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no chemo markers in his blood.
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So it looked as though the meeting in the afternoon was going to be good, only
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for the oncologist to say no, there's been huge incremental growth in the
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tumour, so that hasn't worked either.
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All the way along he'd been saying, I'm having real trouble when I eat,
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I'm feeling nauseous all the time, and people just gave him increasing
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Amounts of nausea medication, probably misdiagnosis right from the get go.
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Um, he had, which is common with pancreatic cancer, a blocked duodenum,
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so the food was just wallowing up and, uh, wasn't clearing away, so they tried
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to put a stent in, uh, that surgery also failed, it was 95, I think,
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percent deployed, wouldn't deploy the last few percent, so that took that
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out as well as part of the equation.
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And when he died, he actually died of not the cancer, not the pancreatic
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cancer, but uh, an infection that he'd acquired in the hospital.
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And,
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Catherine Ashton: and what
period of time was it from him
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dying and his initial diagnosis
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Susan Bollard: after?
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He was diagnosed at the end of September.
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And he died in February
the following year.
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Catherine Ashton: And that was
including that round of chemotherapy
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Susan Bollard: that he did?
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It became, from the time of diagnosis until the time that he died, it was
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just a series of medical interventions.
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So our life wasn't our own, it
was just, it's a doctor, it's
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chemo, it's this, it's that.
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And I was still, I work as a full time secondary school teacher.
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And I was going to work during the day and when I had a later start
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or an early finish school was very accommodating and I was able to,
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uh, to be there as much as I could.
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And he was well enough to be in
the house on his own though, and
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school had the understanding that.
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And if I got a phone
call, I just had to go.
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And we had a couple of good friends who would drop in on times when I thought the
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time period might have been a bit long.
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So he was coherent and understanding and everything all the way through that.
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And then the last more difficult stage all occurred during the
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school holiday period when I
finished up in December from school.
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And with him dying in February, um, I was with him for all of those school holidays.
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So the timing, uh, was such that he had, you know, had me there all the time.
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Catherine Ashton: And it was during, still during COVID, this period?
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Susan Bollard: Yes, even after
he died, we weren't sure what was
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going to happen with a funeral.
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Uh, because people were only
being allowed to go to funerals,
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you know, a few at a time.
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At one stage, I think it was four or five, and then it went to nine,
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uh, two days before Phil's funeral.
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So we organized a funeral, not
knowing whether it was actually
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going to happen, because there was talk with the state government that
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they might be changing the rules.
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And the rules changed on the Wednesday. 162
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His funeral was, I think, on the Friday.
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And he was able to have a, a huge funeral at the church of his choice in Mornington.
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And it was a normal funeral.
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So, you know, timing was everything there.
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And
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Catherine Ashton: in that lead up that you had with him, had you had
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discussions about what his wishes were?
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about death and what he wanted, uh,
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Susan Bollard: after his death?
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Not until the absolute last stage when he was in hospital after they diagnosed
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the block duodenum, because I think that he was always, and even if I was looking
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retrospectively, the chemotherapy was designed to get him better for a period.
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The surgery had been designed.
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To give him greater length of life.
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So it was the surgery, expectations for future, chemotherapy with expectations
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of the future, the operation to put the stent in, still with expectations that
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there was going to be a good outcome.
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And it was only at the last stage.
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And I think you get so overwhelmed with the medical things that are
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going on that we had our wills done.
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All of that part was quite sensibly done.
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Uh, he had written a small exercise book with all of his passwords, his bank
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account numbers and things like that, so that was invaluable to try and sort of
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work out what was going on afterwards.
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Without the passwords, I wouldn't
have been able to get into computers
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00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,539 and he had another house that was used as his design practice.
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00:11:35,129 --> 00:11:39,519 Utilities won't speak to you unless you're either the executor.
189
00:11:40,810 --> 00:11:42,590 or the person involved.
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00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,120 So for me to try and live our normal life and pay bills and do
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00:11:47,170 --> 00:11:52,150 things without being able to have passwords and things, I wouldn't
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00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:53,840 have been able to transact anything.
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00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,270 And life had to go on.
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00:11:56,540 --> 00:11:59,040 And, you know, I don't think utility companies and things.
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00:11:59,470 --> 00:12:00,970 make life very easy at all.
196
00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:03,340 And tell me
197
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:06,640 Catherine Ashton: how, how did you, how was the funeral organized
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Susan Bollard: for Phil?
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I could have made a huge mistake and I'll go a little bit back in the story.
200
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I was going home from the hospital one night and I said, I'm just
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going out, I'll be back in an
hour to go home and feed the dogs.
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00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,820
And the nurse on reception said, Oh, have you got the details
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00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:25,220
of Phil's funeral director?
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And I said, I beg your pardon, because at that stage, we were expecting Phil
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to be coming home and arrangements had been made for district nursing
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service and all sorts of things to be happening at home in two days time.
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And I thought I was just
going to feed the dogs.
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And she asked me about
the funeral arrangements.
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And I said, Okay.
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No, handed me a brochure, so I went home and in the time that I was feeding
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the dogs, which was just on an hour round trip, I couldn't think what to
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do, so I popped into my neighbours who were both older people and members of
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00:13:02,425 --> 00:13:05,780
a golf club, I thought well maybe this is And And I said, could you tell me,
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with people you know, and friends at the golf club, locally, who are the
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funeral directors that everyone goes to?
216
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I don't know any funeral directors, and they told me the name of the company that
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everyone used as being the most reliable.
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00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,600
So I made a quick phone call to them and said, you know, I've been asked
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00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,560
this question, do you take anyone on?
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And they said, yes, we do.
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So then I reported back at about 6.
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30 and said, oh, let it be.
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This particular company mentioned it to Phil and he said to me, well, what would
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you do for a funeral service for me?
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00:13:41,650 --> 00:13:42,489
It was like a quiz.
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And I said, oh, the place at Mount Martha on the Esplanade is very
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nice, it seems very tasteful.
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And he said, oh, you would have done a good job doing that, but no, I would have
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hoped you would have picked a church.
230
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And he hadn't been to church in the 23 years that we'd been together.
231
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So I said, well, what
church would that be?
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And he told me, and he had had a very long affiliation there as a younger person.
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been a youth worker associated with them, and he had worked for a Christian
234
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organisation before he and I had met.
235
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So then I rang up the minister and had a bit of a chat with her, and she
236
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asked if I'd like her to come into the hospital, and I facilitated that,
237
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and then he and she sat down together and talked it over there, and, uh, And
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they worked it out together then, but I would have got it completely wrong.
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Catherine Ashton: So Phil, uh, wanted to have a, a religious service.
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Absolutely.
241
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Yes.
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And that was something that he hadn't given you any indication
243
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Susan Bollard: prior?
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00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:42,940
No.
245
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,059
And I'd asked him lots of times in the time that we were together,
246
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uh, whether he was only not
going to church because of me.
247
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Uh, I would have been more than happy if he'd chittled off and
248
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gone to church groups and things.
249
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He was, I think, fundamentally, he was a Christian through and
250
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through from his upbringing.
251
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But when we'd met, his Christian friends were quite spiteful in their
252
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attitudes to the fact that I was a divorced person, and really went
253
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out of their way to be quite mean.
254
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I was referred to, despite all the professional things I've accomplished in
255
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my life, I was referred to at a wedding that we went to by his colleagues as,
256
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oh, you've brought the ballroom dancer.
257
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And I just took that on the chin, and so did Phil, and he moved away from working
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for a Christian organisation then and, uh, had a complete career change to
259
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work in, uh, the garden design industry.
260
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Catherine Ashton: So was
Phil your second husband,
261
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Susan Bollard: was he?
262
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Yes, he was.
263
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Yeah.
264
00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:44,939
Okay.
265
00:15:44,979 --> 00:15:50,299
I was divorced and, um, we met
after he was separated for a
266
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:51,740
considerable period of time.
267
00:15:52,119 --> 00:15:55,673
He wasn't divorced because he thought divorcing would upset his daughter,
268
00:15:55,673 --> 00:15:58,939
who was 12 or 13 at that stage.
269
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So we were together for Just over, oh, we only married in the November, after
270
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he was diagnosed in the November before he married, he died in the February.
271
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So even though we'd been together all of that time and the majority of the
272
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people that knew us just assumed that we were married, it had never come
273
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up as an issue for anyone to ask us.
274
00:16:21,649 --> 00:16:26,180
So yeah, we got married toward the end and that was, it sounds a bit of a bizarre
275
00:16:26,189 --> 00:16:30,199
thing to say, but that was a suggestion of the accountant that we'd had for years.
276
00:16:30,910 --> 00:16:35,870
And she was also a marriage celebrant, and she knew both of us, and she thought that
277
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that would be a really good thing to do.
278
00:16:39,750 --> 00:16:42,030
So we got married in
our neighbour's garden.
279
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With our account and come marriage celebrant, who's beautiful woman,
280
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and because it was COVID, uh, we had to pick eight selected people.
281
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We had a group photo taken.
282
00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:59,030
So it looked as though it was a group of older age people getting ready for
283
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a bus tour to the pokies or something.
284
00:17:00,930 --> 00:17:05,010
But it was a very lovely event.
285
00:17:05,369 --> 00:17:08,639
The catering was whip around to
the local bakery and buy some
286
00:17:08,649 --> 00:17:12,059
lovely cakes from there and sausage rolls and done in the dining room.
287
00:17:12,059 --> 00:17:17,895
Because again, Phil was too ill to go, we couldn't go to a restaurant
288
00:17:17,944 --> 00:17:19,204
because restaurants weren't open.
289
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He couldn't get married in the gardens because he had to have particular criteria
290
00:17:24,474 --> 00:17:27,775
of toilets and things and they weren't undoing the toilets because of COVID.
291
00:17:28,035 --> 00:17:28,605
Yeah.
292
00:17:28,645 --> 00:17:31,715
So, uh, we came up with our own little version of what was a
293
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very lovely and memorable day.
294
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And, uh, our accountant friend
was really right in saying that
295
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that was the right thing to do.
296
00:17:41,070 --> 00:17:41,530
Oh, that's
297
00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:42,260
Catherine Ashton: so special.
298
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:42,510
Yep.
299
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,130
And did you, you mentioned
that you had written
300
00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:45,880
Susan Bollard: wills?
301
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:46,690
Yes.
302
00:17:46,819 --> 00:17:49,859
Yeah, I'm very definite that
everyone has to have a will.
303
00:17:49,859 --> 00:17:54,899
And, uh, it doesn't matter whether you own very little or whether you own a lot.
304
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:59,450 I think a will is a document that specifies what you want done.
305
00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:00,700 And
306
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,479 Catherine Ashton: did you also have power of attorneys written as
307
00:18:03,479 --> 00:18:03,989 Susan Bollard: well?
308
00:18:04,835 --> 00:18:10,765 No, we didn't have power of attorney, uh, but being his wife, that was one
309
00:18:10,765 --> 00:18:14,305 of the reasons I think the accountant wanted me to be his wife, because
310
00:18:14,305 --> 00:18:17,475 I was able to make decisions at the hospital that I wouldn't have been
311
00:18:17,605 --> 00:18:20,274 able to make if I was his partner.
312
00:18:20,675 --> 00:18:26,654 That wouldn't have been treated in the same way, uh, but it did have, not
313
00:18:26,655 --> 00:18:30,845 being a financial power of attorney, there was nothing I needed to do.
314
00:18:30,845 --> 00:18:33,835 We had separate money, we
had a joined account, but I
315
00:18:33,835 --> 00:18:35,455 could transact those things.
316
00:18:36,254 --> 00:18:40,215
And I was not the executor of his will, which is probably where the most
317
00:18:40,215 --> 00:18:47,195
difficult part came in, because you can't do anything with any mobile phones or
318
00:18:47,245 --> 00:18:52,294
iPads, any organization that you have that you deal with Telstra, Origin,
319
00:18:52,415 --> 00:18:57,764
through the business, unless you're the executor, you can't transact any of that
320
00:18:57,785 --> 00:18:59,805
to keep your own combined life going.
321
00:19:00,105 --> 00:19:03,334
So that was more important,
I think, than anything else.
322
00:19:03,334 --> 00:19:03,865
But that.
323
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:08,040
Had I been financial power of
attorney anyway, that would all have
324
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,520
ceased at the time of his death.
325
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,850
So the person that you select
as your executor, I think is the
326
00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:17,490
paramount decision and I wouldn't have known that before of how
327
00:19:17,499 --> 00:19:19,060
difficult that was going to be.
328
00:19:19,949 --> 00:19:21,680
Catherine Ashton: And can you
talk me through some of the
329
00:19:21,689 --> 00:19:23,280
challenges that you discovered?
330
00:19:23,835 --> 00:19:26,745
you know, about that after Phil died.
331
00:19:27,575 --> 00:19:30,765
Susan Bollard: Well, he had his own home that he used as a design studio about
332
00:19:30,765 --> 00:19:37,114
300 metres from where we lived, to keep the, because various organisations are
333
00:19:37,115 --> 00:19:42,945
notified at the time of someone's death, you can't own property if you're deceased.
334
00:19:43,404 --> 00:19:47,884
So with the council, the rates
had to be paid, but were they
335
00:19:47,884 --> 00:19:49,394
going to send the rates to me?
336
00:19:49,434 --> 00:19:53,155
Well, no, they would send the rates to the executor, but the executor was very
337
00:19:53,155 --> 00:19:56,725
tardy in documentation that he sent to me.
338
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:03,430
Um, you can't keep your light bill or your gas bill and all sorts of things going,
339
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:05,520
that's all in the hands of the executor.
340
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:08,920
And yet I didn't want to come home and find that the lights were out on my
341
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,470
house or something like that, or the lights were out in the other house.
342
00:20:11,895 --> 00:20:17,155
We'd use both properties simultaneously, and yet for one of them, I was
343
00:20:17,155 --> 00:20:21,055
quite cut off from uh, being able to transact things for that house.
344
00:20:21,064 --> 00:20:25,775
So, you know, that, that did cause some real dilemmas at the time.
345
00:20:26,565 --> 00:20:28,105
And people are quite intransigent.
346
00:20:28,135 --> 00:20:30,114
Unless you're the executor,
they won't deal with you.
347
00:20:31,165 --> 00:20:32,095
And would you say
348
00:20:32,095 --> 00:20:34,345
Catherine Ashton: in your personal experience, that is one of the biggest
349
00:20:34,345 --> 00:20:36,055
challenges that you've experienced?
350
00:20:36,115 --> 00:20:37,005
Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
351
00:20:37,015 --> 00:20:37,415
Yeah.
352
00:20:38,245 --> 00:20:42,865
Even to the stage that time has moved on, it will be three years in February.
353
00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:48,150
It's only relatively recently that I've got the title to one of our vehicles
354
00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:54,600
that I've been driving around since then, because, uh, the executor was tardy in
355
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,870
just deciding not to sign paperwork that was sent to him through the solicitor.
356
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,829
So unless the person's on the ball and, and sees something as being a priority.
357
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,389
It was making my life very difficult.
358
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:13,290
So, fortunately now, through my own chasing around and things, getting
359
00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:17,849
the signature on a piece of paper from the, the executor, and then having some
360
00:21:17,849 --> 00:21:22,250
amazing people at VicRoads who helped me, they talked me through what I would
361
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:24,710
need to do as a minimum to get that done. 362
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:28,690
And I couldn't speak more highly of Vicroads, just the most beautiful people.
363
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:29,780
Oh, that's good.
364
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:30,909
Catherine Ashton: Yeah.
365
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:36,030
And you mentioned when Phil
was, was ill and the challenges
366
00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:37,970
around COVID at that time.
367
00:21:38,590 --> 00:21:43,759
Uh, what support would you have liked to have been given during that period
368
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,820
that perhaps wasn't, or, or could you give an example of, of what was done
369
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:48,150
Susan Bollard: well?
370
00:21:49,670 --> 00:21:54,630
I think what was done appallingly, and, uh, I wrote to them at Cabrini Hospital.
371
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:59,940
A man shouldn't be told that surgery had failed and that his prognosis
372
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:06,540
was quite final and be left in a room for, I've forgotten the amount
373
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:11,200
of time now, but probably about five days without being able to
374
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,219
see anyone in his immediate family.
375
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,270
I understood COVID, I understood the dilemmas of people bringing
376
00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:19,740
disease into a hospital.
377
00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:26,020
Even before he went into hospital, he, he and I both had to have COVID tests.
378
00:22:26,409 --> 00:22:30,259
And from the time that he had the test, a certain amount of days had to
379
00:22:30,259 --> 00:22:34,860
elapse and I wasn't allowed to leave the property again at that stage.
380
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:41,479
So we had to have our milk, milk and bread, hung in a supermarket bag, a
381
00:22:41,479 --> 00:22:45,789
plastic bag as it was then, have that hung on the gate because they didn't
382
00:22:45,789 --> 00:22:48,049
want us to, to gain any infection.
383
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,709
So we had that period
of isolation at home.
384
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:55,180
And when I dropped him at the hospital, I had to just drop him at the door.
385
00:22:55,450 --> 00:23:00,319
And similarly, when I picked him up to go home, he was brought down to the
386
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,460
front door by the staff and then just bundled into my car and off we drove home.
387
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:11,179
But I think that was just so callous and unprofessional to not have anyone there.
388
00:23:11,179 --> 00:23:14,030
And it was only when I insisted
that they must have had some
389
00:23:14,030 --> 00:23:15,870
sort of social worker on staff.
390
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:19,950
And they had a civilian visitor, I think was the person that sat
391
00:23:19,950 --> 00:23:21,010
with him for a little while.
392
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,330
And
393
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:27,710
Catherine Ashton: what are the sort of things that you feel, in hindsight now,
394
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:32,029
would have been really beneficial for you to have had that support at that
395
00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:32,569
Susan Bollard: stage?
396
00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:37,939
The private hospital was very negligent.
397
00:23:38,010 --> 00:23:40,930
I should have taken an action
of negligence against them
398
00:23:40,990 --> 00:23:42,840
afterwards for his treatment there.
399
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:47,320
But a friend who's involved in the medical system said, don't even bother,
400
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,625
they just cover up and It's happened to two other friends more recently, but I
401
00:23:52,635 --> 00:23:55,825
would like someone at the hospital to have sort of sat me down and said, look,
402
00:23:55,915 --> 00:23:59,545
you know, this is some of the things that you probably need to think about.
403
00:23:59,554 --> 00:24:02,035
Some of the things that
you need to work through.
404
00:24:03,115 --> 00:24:06,014
Yes, it's COVID times, this
is some of the dilemmas.
405
00:24:07,085 --> 00:24:11,865
Um, but finding out that I had to find out about a funeral director when I was
406
00:24:11,865 --> 00:24:13,835
going for, you know, a dog feed break.
407
00:24:14,325 --> 00:24:18,075
Uh, was very confronting and again, a very unprofessional approach.
408
00:24:18,075 --> 00:24:22,585
So whether it's down to COVID and that's why hospitals were so ill
409
00:24:22,585 --> 00:24:27,095
prepared or whether hospitals are so blasé with dealing with it all the
410
00:24:27,095 --> 00:24:32,445
time, uh, I think there's a lot of scope that more should happen there.
411
00:24:32,524 --> 00:24:36,625
Even if it had been a booklet or something someone had given me in advance
412
00:24:36,635 --> 00:24:40,235
so that the two of us, when Phil was quite lucid as he was, We could have
413
00:24:40,235 --> 00:24:43,675
sat there and talked it through, but he was expecting to get better, and
414
00:24:43,675 --> 00:24:47,685
we'd been led, because he was coming home, to believe that we had that time
415
00:24:47,685 --> 00:24:49,485
at home to do those sorts of things.
416
00:24:50,044 --> 00:24:54,424
Uh, initially it was about, you know, prognosis six to eight years, then
417
00:24:54,424 --> 00:24:56,074
it was going to be a couple of years.
418
00:24:56,485 --> 00:24:59,755
And then it came down to
the final stage, which was a
419
00:24:59,755 --> 00:25:02,105
couple of, uh, couple of weeks.
420
00:25:02,105 --> 00:25:06,365
And from when I took him back to the hospital, uh, he didn't come out.
421
00:25:06,645 --> 00:25:08,765
That was about two weeks in hospital then.
422
00:25:09,964 --> 00:25:12,934
Catherine Ashton: And are you
comfortable talking to me about that
423
00:25:12,935 --> 00:25:16,879
period when, those last few weeks when, when Phil was in hospital?
424
00:25:17,490 --> 00:25:18,470
Susan Bollard: Yep, not a problem.
425
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:24,190
Some people would say that I handled what they might describe as grief
426
00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:27,729
quite differently to others, but I think, I'd like to think I'm
427
00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:29,989
a sensible and pragmatic person.
428
00:25:30,610 --> 00:25:34,449
And I was fairly stoic in just
knowing I had to work through
429
00:25:34,449 --> 00:25:36,720
things because I have no children.
430
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,950
He had a daughter who was living overseas, so I was really, it
431
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:42,460
was down to me to do things.
432
00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:45,720
And
433
00:25:46,429 --> 00:25:49,169
Catherine Ashton: what are the sort of things that you, you prepared in those,
434
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,389
Susan Bollard: in those sort of weeks?
435
00:25:52,465 --> 00:25:56,425
Well, once we realized how he was not going to get any better, and there was
436
00:25:56,425 --> 00:26:01,825
nothing more medically that we could do, we made the arrangements for his funeral.
437
00:26:01,845 --> 00:26:06,305
I organized for the minister at the church that he wanted, he wanted a church
438
00:26:06,305 --> 00:26:11,405
funeral, uh, organized the minister to come in and sit with him and talk
439
00:26:11,405 --> 00:26:17,495
with him and talk over aspects of the service, so he had a real call in that.
440
00:26:19,115 --> 00:26:23,695
He went through with his little book of passwords, and bank account numbers,
441
00:26:23,695 --> 00:26:25,185
where to find things like that.
442
00:26:26,355 --> 00:26:30,565
He was very, very ill, but was determined that I was going to learn how to use
443
00:26:30,565 --> 00:26:34,765
the ride-on mower that I'd never used, how to start the brush cutter, we
444
00:26:34,765 --> 00:26:37,154
live on a substantial sized property.
445
00:26:37,715 --> 00:26:41,784
And there were things that he thought I just needed to, to learn to know, just
446
00:26:41,784 --> 00:26:43,735
to get by until I got myself sorted out.
447
00:26:44,084 --> 00:26:45,824
So I was very much appreciative of that.
448
00:26:46,274 --> 00:26:49,124
And that was the, the sort of
partnership we had that, you know,
449
00:26:50,095 --> 00:26:53,665
he would be going, but I would
have to manage after he was gone.
450
00:26:56,004 --> 00:26:56,394
And from
451
00:26:56,399 --> 00:27:00,925
Catherine Ashton: your point of view, what do you believe are probably the most
452
00:27:00,985 --> 00:27:05,634
challenging things when you're looking at, you know, facing a loved one's death.
453
00:27:09,324 --> 00:27:11,395
Susan Bollard: I had a, a
list that he'd given me.
454
00:27:11,925 --> 00:27:19,005
of once he'd actually died, who I had to ring, and I think looking at the list
455
00:27:19,005 --> 00:27:25,134
of people before he died, and it was all typed up, he sat down on the computer
456
00:27:25,135 --> 00:27:27,125
and he typed up the list of people.
457
00:27:28,165 --> 00:27:31,705
I think looking at that and realising that everything was going to be
458
00:27:31,705 --> 00:27:35,055
final, and I had to sort of follow through with that, that was one
459
00:27:35,055 --> 00:27:36,345
of the really difficult things.
460
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:43,460
And, and just trying to keep his spirits up in hospital when, because he was a
461
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:47,690
Christian and because he knew he wasn't getting better, he was ready to go.
462
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,239
He was on a mission that
he knew where he was going.
463
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:52,600
He was not fearful of dying.
464
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:54,850
He was ready to be out of there.
465
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,279
Uh, so it was a real contradiction for me of sitting and chatting
466
00:27:59,370 --> 00:28:00,960
and buoying his spirits.
467
00:28:01,709 --> 00:28:06,890
But also knowing that he was, if he could have gone any day there,
468
00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:09,290
he was not wanting to linger on.
469
00:28:10,299 --> 00:28:10,799
Catherine Ashton: Yeah.
470
00:28:11,429 --> 00:28:16,289
Um, from your personal experience with, with Phil and, and other experiences in
471
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:22,400
your life, uh, how would you recommend or suggest people can support you during
472
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:25,620
that period and, and after when someone
473
00:28:25,630 --> 00:28:26,179
Susan Bollard: dies?
474
00:28:28,090 --> 00:28:32,610
Oh, a really difficult question that one, because it hits at
475
00:28:32,610 --> 00:28:34,310
what I had to do for myself.
476
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,600
After the funeral, from the time that Phil passed away in the hospital,
477
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,160
the realisation was very much, you're on your own girl, you've
478
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,639
just gotta, you know, gotta do this.
479
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:56,370
There weren't people who were offering help, and I don't think I probably needed
480
00:28:56,370 --> 00:29:04,350
help because I knew what had to be done, but people meaning really well, and uh,
481
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:10,340
ringing my young colleagues at school when I took a period of bereavement leave,
482
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,730
there's a, a period of, I had three, two weeks, three weeks of bereavement leave,
483
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:21,650
and they were trying to be nice, but they would say, are you feeling better?
484
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:27,930
Each, each person who would
say, are you feeling better?
485
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,340
I got to the stage, I wanted to scream at them and say, I haven't had the flu.
486
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,550
And yet I would smile and nod and say, yes, you know, we're getting by.
487
00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:41,069
People would say to me, I can't
believe, you know, the grief, the
488
00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:42,839
grief you must be going through. 489
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,380
And it was strange.
490
00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:48,770
I had to sort of play a role in, I want to say, it's not grief.
491
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,140
And eventually I did this and
it's not grief, it's bewilderment.
492
00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:59,475
Uh, one moment you're part of a, a team, and you work very successfully as a team.
493
00:30:00,455 --> 00:30:03,805
And then you find that everything in your life that's meshed together
494
00:30:03,915 --> 00:30:09,515
for, you know, 23 plus years, uh, you've suddenly got to unravel that
495
00:30:09,575 --> 00:30:13,155
to run things on your own again.
496
00:30:13,965 --> 00:30:15,515
And that takes a lot of confidence.
497
00:30:15,545 --> 00:30:20,465
And I did things that I think people who were maybe more Phil's friends, Probably
498
00:30:20,475 --> 00:30:25,585
thought it was a bit odd, about two weeks after his funeral, I rang up a friend who
499
00:30:25,585 --> 00:30:31,725
had a dance studio and a social dance and I said, this is what's happened, I own
500
00:30:31,725 --> 00:30:35,425
another studio so you don't necessarily,
in case they think you're trying to do
501
00:30:35,465 --> 00:30:39,785
intellectual uh, espionage or something of their business, I said I would like to
502
00:30:39,785 --> 00:30:45,255
come dancing because I've got to find who I used to be before I was part of a team.
503
00:30:45,765 --> 00:30:49,835
And I used dance and going where there were completely anonymous
504
00:30:49,835 --> 00:30:55,265
people that would ask me nothing about Phil, nothing about my life,
505
00:30:55,585 --> 00:30:57,595
nothing about how I was coping.
506
00:30:57,885 --> 00:31:02,575
So that was my strategy that
worked well for me to strengthen
507
00:31:02,575 --> 00:31:08,335
myself by, uh, pushing myself to go to places where no one knew me.
508
00:31:08,665 --> 00:31:15,295
And dancing was fabulous for me because you drive yourself there, you go in,
509
00:31:15,895 --> 00:31:19,465
you talk to people politely while you're there, you dance with people,
510
00:31:19,465 --> 00:31:21,725
you get in your own car and you go home.
511
00:31:22,045 --> 00:31:26,765
It's just the old fashioned sort of cliche of a safe place to go.
512
00:31:28,435 --> 00:31:28,665
And
513
00:31:28,665 --> 00:31:33,780
Catherine Ashton: so you
found yourself by Anonymity.
514
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:34,900
Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
515
00:31:35,410 --> 00:31:39,210
And I cope much better with that, and I've suggested that to people.
516
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,640
Maybe I was lucky in that I didn't have children, and that sounds a strange
517
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,070
thing to say, but people in my own age group who've got children seem
518
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:51,040
to get closeted by their children.
519
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,140
And they seem to get looked after in a way that their children think
520
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,830
that they need looking after.
521
00:31:59,255 --> 00:32:03,345
And the children seem to take, seem to take over the role of managing their life.
522
00:32:04,295 --> 00:32:07,345
And then I met a lot, meet a lot of these people when they come to the dance
523
00:32:07,355 --> 00:32:11,885
studio, maybe 12 months or two years later, where they're trying to find
524
00:32:11,885 --> 00:32:17,165 themselves then when they realize that they've been smothered by their close
525
00:32:17,165 --> 00:32:21,365 family and particularly their children and they try and find themselves.
526
00:32:21,685 --> 00:32:25,805 Whereas I knew having no one, I had to find myself very quickly
527
00:32:25,815 --> 00:32:30,545 and I had to find out what gave me my tenacity and my strength.
528
00:32:31,410 --> 00:32:34,630 Uh, all those years ago before I met Phil, I had my business, the dance
529
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,430 studio, before I met Phil, and I knew that I could run that business on my
530
00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:40,710 own, and I had to find that again.
531
00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:44,110 And that was my strategy, and I think that was my strength too,
532
00:32:44,140 --> 00:32:45,630 that worked really well for me.
533
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:49,030 Catherine Ashton: And that's what gave you the confidence, was?
534
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:49,980 Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
535
00:32:50,030 --> 00:32:57,110
Because I, I knew that I had been a very confident individual as a single person.
536
00:32:58,550 --> 00:33:01,160
I had been a part of a very strong team.
537
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:06,520
But I had to work out how to work as that very independent, confident person again,
538
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:10,300
because the team had been disbanded, so.
539
00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:15,070
Catherine Ashton: And what other skills did you find yourself having to take on?
540
00:33:15,070 --> 00:33:18,290
You mentioned the ride on
mower, the whipper snipper.
541
00:33:19,475 --> 00:33:21,115
Did you have to now start paying
542
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:22,235
Susan Bollard: bills or?
543
00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:24,485
I'd always paid all of my own bills.
544
00:33:24,485 --> 00:33:29,675
We'd had two houses and one had been used as a design office and the other
545
00:33:29,675 --> 00:33:31,475
one had been the house that we lived in.
546
00:33:32,935 --> 00:33:36,075
Phil was in the middle of thinking about a renovation and I wasn't quite
547
00:33:36,075 --> 00:33:37,655
sure what to do with the other house.
548
00:33:38,745 --> 00:33:44,285
I found out very quickly that legally you have two years to sell a property,
549
00:33:44,285 --> 00:33:48,655
if you're going to sell a property, before you include capital gains
550
00:33:48,655 --> 00:33:50,995
tax, uh, and all sorts of things.
551
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,000
And two years is a very short period of time, particularly when COVID impacted
552
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,930
on a very significant part of that time.
553
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,730
Almost 12 months of it was taken up with things to do with the COVID lockdowns.
554
00:34:04,235 --> 00:34:08,465
It was, I couldn't think what to do, so I thought, well, yes, he had asbestos
555
00:34:08,465 --> 00:34:12,235
walls on two sides that he was going to take down, so I renovated his house.
556
00:34:13,085 --> 00:34:15,805
The windows had to be
replaced, I put new windows in.
557
00:34:16,375 --> 00:34:19,625
And that was probably going through the motions of doing things that I
558
00:34:19,635 --> 00:34:21,535
thought were sensible things to do.
559
00:34:22,165 --> 00:34:27,625
As it turned out then, uh, towards the end of the two years, I got my first real
560
00:34:27,625 --> 00:34:30,345
shock financially in regards his house.
561
00:34:30,345 --> 00:34:31,885
I hadn't rented it out.
562
00:34:31,885 --> 00:34:36,235
I put a friend in as a caretaker with no rent because that meant that
563
00:34:36,235 --> 00:34:37,535
the insurance was still covered.
564
00:34:38,995 --> 00:34:41,885
But I was still maintaining
the extensive grounds there.
565
00:34:42,905 --> 00:34:46,515
And I found out that I then
was incurring land tax.
566
00:34:46,615 --> 00:34:52,520
So by the time I had the The impost of land tax, the insurance for the house,
567
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,940
and the extensive rates, just to keep the house long enough for me to work out what
568
00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:01,520
to do with it, would have been nearly ten and a half thousand dollars a year.
569
00:35:02,010 --> 00:35:05,240
And out of a single teacher's
salary, that was just too much.
570
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:09,190
So that was the catalyst that led me to, against my better judgement,
571
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:12,040
but now I know I did the right
thing, to have to sell the house.
572
00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:14,700
And
573
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,680
Catherine Ashton: that takes a lot of confidence to actually make that decision.
574
00:35:21,845 --> 00:35:26,825
Did it impact on your grieving, having to let go of the house, or how did you feel
575
00:35:26,825 --> 00:35:27,555
Susan Bollard: about that process?
576
00:35:27,645 --> 00:35:35,645
Um, I felt, it wasn't so much grief, it was guilt, because I, I knew that
577
00:35:35,755 --> 00:35:41,505
the house was very special to him, and the house was filled with his lifetime
578
00:35:41,505 --> 00:35:45,755
treasures, going back to diaries that he'd had from year eight and things.
579
00:35:46,235 --> 00:35:50,445
So to sell the house meant that
I also had to empty the house.
580
00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:56,880
So it was filing cabinets of
personal documents and anecdotes
581
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,140
that he'd held onto since he was a, I suppose, a 14 year old boy.
582
00:36:01,350 --> 00:36:04,700
There were things that I was reading that I would open something before I threw it
583
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:08,680
out to make sure that it was something that I should have been throwing out.
584
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:13,250
And sometimes I'd think, no, this was something that I shouldn't be reading,
585
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:14,900
so I'd have to close it up very quickly.
586
00:36:15,490 --> 00:36:16,670
I made up boxes.
587
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,480
He'd had his mother and father's memorabilia in the house.
588
00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:26,265
So I made up boxes for
things to go to his siblings.
589
00:36:27,130 --> 00:36:31,280
And things to be boxed up to hang on to for his daughter, who in fact
590
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:33,180
subsequently has come back to Australia.
591
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:37,910
So I was able to give those boxes to her so that she could go through
592
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:42,500
that grief process that she hadn't been able to manage because she
593
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:44,150
hadn't been in Australia at the time.
594
00:36:45,085 --> 00:36:49,955
So there was a lot of, a lot of sorting, a lot of culling, a lot of
595
00:36:49,955 --> 00:36:54,555
feeling badly about what to do with his beautiful architectural books.
596
00:36:54,585 --> 00:37:00,135
He was a design, he worked as an architectural draftsman, but he was also
597
00:37:00,155 --> 00:37:02,265
in his own right a landscape designer.
598
00:37:02,475 --> 00:37:05,125
So he did both businesses simultaneously.
599
00:37:05,575 --> 00:37:09,045
And I've still got a room full of books that I had to go out to Ikea
600
00:37:09,045 --> 00:37:12,455
and buy bookcases for because I didn't have the heart to get rid of
601
00:37:12,455 --> 00:37:14,345
his precious professional library.
602
00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:19,620
I'm never going to read three or four Ikea bookshelves full of, uh,
603
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,120
bookcases full of professional books. 604
00:37:22,620 --> 00:37:26,340 But I felt obliged to do justice to that by hanging on to them.
605
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:28,840 But it was a, it was a big process.
606
00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:30,790 That sounds like it.
607
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:35,240 Catherine Ashton: And has there been any incidents that have
608
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,710 influenced your personal thoughts on
609
00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:37,990 Susan Bollard: death?
610
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,560 I didn't want to ever be cremated.
611
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,570 I wanted to be buried.
612
00:37:45,315 --> 00:37:48,695 I wanted them to play the, the only request I had was, uh, the
613
00:37:48,695 --> 00:37:51,375 music Always look on the bright side and everyone encouraged to
614
00:37:51,375 --> 00:37:53,815 click and clap along as I went out.
615
00:37:55,035 --> 00:37:58,305 I was very reluctant to tell anything, anyone much about Phil's death.
616
00:37:59,415 --> 00:38:03,985
I was with him, sitting with him at the time that he died, but I've become
617
00:38:03,985 --> 00:38:09,455
more confident with sharing that Phil was a very Christian person and had
618
00:38:09,455 --> 00:38:11,065
no doubts about where he was going.
619
00:38:11,685 --> 00:38:14,975
I was holding his hand, I
realised that he was fading away.
620
00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:24,345
I saw a mustard, can only describe a small mustard cloud, emanate from his chest.
621
00:38:24,405 --> 00:38:26,995
I thought it through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
622
00:38:27,495 --> 00:38:29,565
It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
623
00:38:30,085 --> 00:38:34,495
I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
624
00:38:34,495 --> 00:38:36,995
or so before he actually died.
625
00:38:37,975 --> 00:38:41,835
His hand was still warm
and you could still feel.
626
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:45,110
But I went out and I said to the nurse, I think you better come in.
627
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:47,060
I think Phil's died.
628
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,310
And she confirmed that yes, he had, but it would take another five minutes.
629
00:38:52,110 --> 00:38:57,230
That gave me quite the profound
experience to, to think about my own
630
00:38:57,230 --> 00:39:01,720
death and death in general, that when we organize a funeral for someone,
631
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:05,890
they're somewhere else probably
looking on, they're not actually there.
632
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,060
And so my ideas will have to be
reviewed when I get around to it.
633
00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:15,250
And that's the next stage
for me to think through.
634
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,990
of how do I feel about
funerals and, uh, and things.
635
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:22,670
I'm not a religious person, so
it wouldn't be a church service.
636
00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:27,790
So yeah, it's, it's changed my way of thinking much more significantly than I
637
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:30,110
would have ever thought in a profound way.
638
00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:32,230
And
639
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:34,710 Catherine Ashton: you mentioned that you don't have children.
640
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,040 No.
641
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,130 You've, you've had your own will.
642
00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:37,430 Yep.
643
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,590 What other sort of planning, obviously you're starting to
644
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,110 think about what you would, would like for your, your own funeral.
645
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:47,960 What other things have you, you considered in relation to
646
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,360 Susan Bollard: this?
647
00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:52,220 Well, because of this rethinking it, I always thought that I
648
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:54,000 would be buried in a cemetery.
649
00:39:54,850 --> 00:40:01,960 And again, I teach sustainability, Phil was very big on sustainability.
650
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,370 And the whole idea of taking up land by cemeteries is something
651
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:08,350
that I'll have to come to consider.
652
00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:13,260
I think having worked on traditional history for years and things.
653
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:17,040
Um, I always used to joke to people and say, well, I don't want to turn up in
654
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,900
the next life with a few bits missing if that's what happens after cremation.
655
00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:26,140
But I will have to rethink that in time, but the time hasn't been at the moment.
656
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:29,690
And I understand that if I went suddenly tomorrow, that would be
657
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:31,110
someone's problem to sort out.
658
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,420
But yeah, I'll come to that in time, but that's not the right time yet.
659
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:37,950
But I have put that on the
agenda for more thinking about.
660
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:41,700
And given your
661
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:43,220
Catherine Ashton: personal experience.
662
00:40:43,325 --> 00:40:47,325
Is there any advice or encouragement you'd like to share with
663
00:40:47,325 --> 00:40:47,775
Susan Bollard: others?
664
00:40:52,975 --> 00:40:58,075
I think on the sensible side of having documentation, I've been recently
665
00:40:58,075 --> 00:40:59,985
asked to do this with a friend.
666
00:41:00,465 --> 00:41:05,355
Her children didn't want to ask their mum about her arrangements.
667
00:41:05,855 --> 00:41:11,535
So only a week ago I was asked to speak to my friend and say, look, you know,
668
00:41:11,565 --> 00:41:13,955
things are not good and we, we know that.
669
00:41:15,325 --> 00:41:16,815
What arrangements have you got?
670
00:41:16,815 --> 00:41:18,595
And she said, I really haven't got any.
671
00:41:19,205 --> 00:41:23,815
And she and I talk through those sorts of things about passwords and the pragmatic
672
00:41:23,815 --> 00:41:28,975
side that her bills would be paid while she's, uh, still in hospital and when she
673
00:41:28,975 --> 00:41:34,635
passes away, it's a direct debit until that stage, uh, the nuts and bolts of it,
674
00:41:35,465 --> 00:41:40,375
but also by me having the conversation with her, um, I said, I think you need
675
00:41:40,375 --> 00:41:42,005
to talk to your children about that.
676
00:41:42,525 --> 00:41:47,415
Uh, she's subsequently done that, her daughter then spoke to me and said, I
677
00:41:47,415 --> 00:41:51,855
don't think I'm handling mum being so matter of fact about all of this, but
678
00:41:51,885 --> 00:41:57,145
I think my friend feels much better now that, like Phil, she was going through
679
00:41:57,425 --> 00:42:03,145
what she wants them to know, and, and that's an imminent situation, so I
680
00:42:03,175 --> 00:42:08,435
think she's taking control of it, so I think taking control of, you know,
681
00:42:08,495 --> 00:42:10,005
of your own affairs there probably.
682
00:42:10,005 --> 00:42:14,545
Finally, the other side of it
for the person who's left behind.
683
00:42:16,770 --> 00:42:20,060
I think you really, uh, have to, it doesn't matter what age you are,
684
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:24,070
whether you're younger or you're older and it's going to be really difficult,
685
00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:30,360
but I think you have to find your own self and not rely too much on others.
686
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,930
I think from a lot of people that I, uh, meet through the dance studio,
687
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:40,060
it sometimes takes them several years because their children like to closet
688
00:42:40,070 --> 00:42:42,970
them and pamper them and look after them.
689
00:42:43,525 --> 00:42:48,655
And almost manage the life of the one left behind, but that means once you
690
00:42:48,655 --> 00:42:53,355
dust yourself off, what your children or your close associates want for
691
00:42:53,355 --> 00:42:58,035
you or think is good for you, may not necessarily, uh, once you've thought
692
00:42:58,035 --> 00:42:59,855
about it, be what you want for yourself.
693
00:43:00,405 --> 00:43:02,515
And, and life truly does go on.
694
00:43:03,195 --> 00:43:08,075
And, um, mine, I said before, wasn't so much grief as bewilderment.
695
00:43:09,155 --> 00:43:14,095
I think that you have to handle that situation in a way that is best for you,
696
00:43:14,385 --> 00:43:19,895
that you go on and honour the life of the person who passed away by giving
697
00:43:20,105 --> 00:43:24,735
the best quality to your life, and you being the best person you can be
698
00:43:24,745 --> 00:43:30,705
going forward, not placating others by doing what they think is right for you.
699
00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:33,080
and what they think would be good for you.
700
00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:36,880
Be feisty, be determined, and be yourself.
701
00:43:37,970 --> 00:43:39,780
And keep on dancing, I'm sure.
702
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:45,090
Oh, if I could say to anyone,
it's not about the dancing.
703
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:49,800
For me, I will never be a millionaire from owning a dance business.
704
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:56,690
To me, dancing is a conduit, whether it's death, divorce, just being lost in
705
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:59,110
some way of, you know, losing your job.
706
00:44:00,030 --> 00:44:04,200
Dancing is that really safe space where you can go with people.
707
00:44:04,855 --> 00:44:05,995
of like mind.
708
00:44:06,805 --> 00:44:08,225
Everyone's got a story.
709
00:44:08,345 --> 00:44:11,025
You don't share your
story with anyone there.
710
00:44:11,325 --> 00:44:12,835
The story is the music.
711
00:44:12,865 --> 00:44:14,555
The story is the style.
712
00:44:14,825 --> 00:44:17,925
The story is that you become
part of a new community.
713
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:22,850
I run a group of, a very loose group out of the dance studio, nicknamed
714
00:44:22,890 --> 00:44:24,660
the Naughty Ladies to start with.
715
00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:32,900
Women who were divorced or widowed, which is not a word I'd normally use, but they
716
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:36,210
were sitting home and watching television and they wanted to go out again.
717
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:38,140
They wanted to go and listen to music.
718
00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:39,320
They wanted to go out to dinner.
719
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,570
So I'd say, all right, let's carpool.
720
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:45,440
And the first time there was
five of us and we went out to a
721
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,770
fabulous night at the jazz club.
722
00:44:48,955 --> 00:44:52,405
Then the next time some more people wanted to come, so we had two cars went.
723
00:44:52,785 --> 00:44:56,345
Then I started to get phone calls and people said, what do I have to do
724
00:44:56,345 --> 00:44:58,305
to join the group of naughty ladies?
725
00:44:58,635 --> 00:45:01,335
I said, well, it's not just
a very loose arrangement.
726
00:45:01,345 --> 00:45:02,265
You don't pay anything.
727
00:45:02,265 --> 00:45:03,005
You just say.
728
00:45:03,455 --> 00:45:07,265
You're going out to a particular band or a dance or a destination,
729
00:45:07,275 --> 00:45:08,575
we'd like to tag along.
730
00:45:09,125 --> 00:45:13,685
And then some men start to say, can men go to the group of naughty ladies?
731
00:45:13,695 --> 00:45:15,485
And I said, well, yes,
if you're a naughty man.
732
00:45:16,645 --> 00:45:21,955
But what it's turned out to be now is
I advertise on our, um, Dance Studio
733
00:45:21,955 --> 00:45:26,295
Facebook page, places that I think will be interesting and enticing.
734
00:45:26,615 --> 00:45:29,475
And if anyone wants to go, they
just say, can you make a booking?
735
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:33,630
And it's a loose arrangement, but people can be their own people.
736
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,380
They can go out to things that they would like to go out to and enjoy with their
737
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:42,780
partners before they were either, uh, you know, left on their own after a death.
738
00:45:43,375 --> 00:45:45,345
Or left on their own after divorce.
739
00:45:45,345 --> 00:45:48,805
I think it's probably a similar
reaction, that one of bewilderment.
740
00:45:50,215 --> 00:45:50,335
Oh,
741
00:45:50,335 --> 00:45:51,675
Catherine Ashton: that's beautiful, Susan.
742
00:45:52,075 --> 00:45:55,645
And is there anything else
that you'd like to, to share?
743
00:45:55,765 --> 00:45:57,285
Or any story you'd like to tell? 744
00:45:59,525 --> 00:46:02,535
Susan Bollard: Oh, there's so many stories and so many different things.
745
00:46:04,345 --> 00:46:09,125
No, I think probably all I could think of would be, just be true to yourself.
746
00:46:10,175 --> 00:46:14,265
And, and that will be, there'll be small things, whether you're a lady or a man.
747
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,190
The way you dress when you're part of a couple, when you start to go out
748
00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:23,220
again, you start to look at your clothes and think, is someone going to think
749
00:46:23,220 --> 00:46:25,190
I'm a bit risque if I go out in that?
750
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:31,020
You know, if I go out on my own, are people going to be frowning on that?
751
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:34,550
And you, again, you've just
got to be true to yourself.
752
00:46:34,610 --> 00:46:35,650
You want to keep going.
753
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:36,630
You want to be healthy.
754
00:46:36,820 --> 00:46:38,080
You want to be vibrant.
755
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:41,940
And you want to go into the
future as your own healthy person.
756
00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:45,385 And I think just having confidence, you might have to compromise a
757
00:46:45,385 --> 00:46:49,295 little bit, you know, for a while, but yeah, be your own person.
758
00:46:50,175 --> 00:46:50,455 That's
759
00:46:50,455 --> 00:46:52,305 Catherine Ashton: beautiful
advice to, to end on,
760
00:46:52,305 --> 00:46:52,795 Susan Bollard: Susan.
761
00:46:52,895 --> 00:46:53,385 Thank you.
762
00:46:53,455 --> 00:46:54,875 And thank you for giving me the time.
763
00:46:55,215 --> 00:46:56,175 Catherine Ashton: Oh, thank you for
764
00:46:56,255 --> 00:46:57,565 Susan Bollard: being a guest today.
765
00:46:58,005 --> 00:46:58,765 Much appreciated.
766
00:47:00,395 --> 00:47:03,505 Catherine Ashton: We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught
767
00:47:03,535 --> 00:47:05,715 Dead, brought to you by Critical Info.
768
00:47:06,645 --> 00:47:10,905
If you liked the episode, learnt something new, or were touched by a story you
769
00:47:10,905 --> 00:47:12,565
heard, we'd love for you to let us know.
770
00:47:13,005 --> 00:47:16,595
Send us an email, even tell
your friends, subscribe so you
771
00:47:16,595 --> 00:47:18,325
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772
00:47:18,515 --> 00:47:22,635
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773
00:47:22,645 --> 00:47:24,375
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774
00:47:24,695 --> 00:47:26,055
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775
00:47:26,205 --> 00:47:29,665
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776
00:47:29,965 --> 00:47:31,555
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777
00:47:31,995 --> 00:47:33,855
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778
00:47:33,905 --> 00:47:37,265
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