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About this episode
Have you ever pondered the experience of facing the end of a loved one's life? In this episode, we share a touching story from Susan Bollard, who grappled with the loss of her husband during the height of the Covid lockdown.
Susan, the owner of Showbiz Dance Studio, shares her profound journey through the loss of her husband, Phil. It's a story filled with love, loss, and unexpected lessons learnt along the way. Let's dive into the salient points of this extraordinary conversation.
Remember, whilst death might be a disconcerting topic, it is a part of life we all must confront. Susan's story stands as a testament to the inner strength and resilience we can unearth within ourselves. Tune in and let's navigate this journey collectively.
Keep dancing through life, and don't forget to subscribe for more poignant narratives and insights. See you in the next episode!
Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.
Take care,
Catherine
Show notes
Guest Bio
![Podcast Guest - Image](https://criticalinfo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IMG_1885.jpeg)
Susan Bollard believes everyone deserves a chance to learn to dance.
Susan purchased Showbiz Dance Studio in 1990. It is Frankston's longest running and most successful dance studio. Susan and her team of instructors are passionate about teaching dance. Whether its Salsa or Waltz, Rock & Roll or Cha Cha, her studio is a place for the local community to learn social dance even if it’s at a slower pace for her All-abilities classes.
However, when Susan’s landscape designer husband, Phil died she found out that she had to learn many things herself. This is Susan’s story.
Summary
Key Learnings:
- Susan's life before and after Phil's passing: An exploration of her dance studio and how it transformed into a sanctuary after her loss.
- The reality of managing a terminal illness: Susan reveals the emotional rollercoaster and difficult decisions faced during Phil's battle with pancreatic cancer.
- Navigating life after loss: Susan discusses the challenges of adjusting to life without Phil, from managing his affairs to carving out her own path forward.
- The power of dance: Discover how Susan utilised dance as a therapeutic outlet to rediscover herself and establish a supportive community.
- Preparing for the inevitable: Insights into the importance of wills, funeral planning, and engaging in difficult conversations.
Transcript
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Susan Bollard: I was holding his hand, I realised that he was fading away.
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I saw a small mustard cloud
emanate from his chest.
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I thought through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
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It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
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00:00:13,125 --> 00:00:17,045
I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
... Read More
1
00:00:00,010 --> 00:00:03,300
Susan Bollard: I was holding his hand, I realised that he was fading away.
2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,390
I saw a small mustard cloud
emanate from his chest.
3
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,030
I thought through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
4
00:00:10,530 --> 00:00:12,650
It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
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00:00:13,125 --> 00:00:17,045
I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
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00:00:17,095 --> 00:00:19,465
or so before he actually died.
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Catherine Ashton: Welcome to
Don't Be Caught Dead, a podcast
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encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one.
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I'm your host Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to
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bring your stories of death back to life.
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Because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared.
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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin Nations
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and recognises their connection to land, sea and community.
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We pay our respects to their Elders, past, present and emerging and extend
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that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First
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Nation peoples around the globe.
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Susan Bollard believes everyone deserves a chance to learn to dance.
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Susan purchased Showbiz
Dance Studio in 1990.
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It is Frankston's longest running, most successful dance studio.
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Susan and her team of instructors are passionate about dance, and whether it's
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salsa, waltz, rock and roll or cha cha, her studio is the place for the local
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community to learn socially dancing.
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Even if it's at a slower pace
for her all abilities classes.
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However, when Susan's landscape designer husband Phil died, she
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found out that she was the one that had to learn many things herself.
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This is Susan's story.
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Thanks for joining us today, Susan.
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No, thank you for inviting me.
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Now Susan, can you please tell me about the time someone close to you died?
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Susan Bollard: I think given that I'm a baby boomer, there would be
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several instances I could tell you about, all with different outcomes.
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But most recently, my husband
died nearly three years ago.
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He had been one of the fittest men you could ever come across.
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He should have been the pin
up boy for men's health.
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He had a habit of every year when he bought a diary, he'd open to the same
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date in June and write that date down and organise to have an annual medical.
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And for the 23 years we were together, I think he had that every year
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for 23 years, for medical workup, blood tests, because he always
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talked about having baseline data.
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He said if you're going to get sick.
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You need to know what the
situation was like before.
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He wasn't a drinker, he wasn't a smoker, and he was a really fit man.
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And as it came as a real shock that he moved the trailer one day, he
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said, I've got a pain in the back.
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That was on a Sunday.
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The following Thursday, he
said, my back's still hurting.
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It's better to go to the doctor.
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He went on Friday.
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And on the Monday, he was diagnosed with final stage pancreatic cancer.
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So a real shock to, um, to us as a couple, uh, with a really, really fit
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man and no signs of ill health at all.
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But.
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That's the way with pancreatic cancer.
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And what happened
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Catherine Ashton: after you
received that diagnosis?
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Susan Bollard: Oh, life
went into free fall.
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It was in COVID times.
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So we Got the, uh, the initial scan that
it showed that he had pancreatic cancer.
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The only way, because it's very
difficult to diagnose, was that
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they had to do some surgery.
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So he was in it to the Cabrini Hospital, and the specialist was going to put a
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telescopic instrument down, have a little bit of a look at the situation, and make
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a determination of what would happen next.
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Because none of the MRIs or CAT
scans give a definitive answer.
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The surgery proceeded without
me being at the hospital.
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I wasn't allowed to go up there
because of the COVID restrictions.
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The telescope went down, they
did all of their observation.
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Everything showed that because the cancer hadn't moved into Phil's abdomen, that
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it would be, uh, pragmatic to remove, uh, the cancer, and the diagnosis
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00:04:23,770 --> 00:04:27,650 quite healthy life, keeping an eye on his diet, uh, into the future.
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00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:34,210 The upshot came when the surgery commenced and they lifted up the
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00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:38,500 tumor that they were removing to find that completely invisible
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perforated Phil's abdomen.
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surgery ceased at that stage.
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00:04:48,010 --> 00:04:53,149 Uh, he was sewn up and put back together again and for him very
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00:04:53,149 --> 00:04:58,080 poignantly was put back in a hospital bed in a room with no one.
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00:05:01,010 --> 00:05:05,174 He could phone me, but because he was still coming out of The whole
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realisation of the situation that was somewhat difficult for him.
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They eventually, when he asked, found him a social worker.
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So I think it says a lot about
maybe some needs during COVID
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with major hospitals too.
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He talked to a social worker.
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And, uh, he'd been told he was
going to die, but there was no one
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to, to really talk it over with.
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So eventually I got a phone call to say, he's quite restless, and I'm surprised
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that they thought that would be strange with that sort of information, and asked
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me if I could come up almost immediately.
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And I was teaching from home luckily, so I just got in the car and drove
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up, and spent a couple of hours with
him up there and, and talked it over,
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and that was the first time that he'd really Had an opportunity to process
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it with anyone, and then he was sent home a couple of days later again.
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It was all because of COVID, quite bizarre, but just drive up and someone
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would deliver him to the front door.
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And then I put him in the car and off we went home again, no support really
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at all from the hospital or anyone else.
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The, um, surgeon had said, uh, must have spoken to us, we must have had
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an interview with him after that.
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And he'd said, look, really the best thing you could do is just go home and enjoy
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the rest of the time that you've got left.
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Uh, but we were referred to an oncologist and she had a completely counter
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perspective on the whole thing and said, no, surgeons are just slice and dice.
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If they can't fix you one way,
they're not interested, but of course
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you've got to have chemotherapy.
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And we got caught up in a whirlwind of surgeon's advice of just enjoy the
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time you've got or the chemotherapy where he was very, very ill.
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It's a very invasive program.
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It turned out that that also,
a full cycle of chemo, showed
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no chemo markers in his blood.
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So it looked as though the meeting in the afternoon was going to be good, only
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for the oncologist to say no, there's been huge incremental growth in the
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tumour, so that hasn't worked either.
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All the way along he'd been saying, I'm having real trouble when I eat,
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I'm feeling nauseous all the time, and people just gave him increasing
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Amounts of nausea medication, probably misdiagnosis right from the get go.
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Um, he had, which is common with pancreatic cancer, a blocked duodenum,
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so the food was just wallowing up and, uh, wasn't clearing away, so they tried
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to put a stent in, uh, that surgery also failed, it was 95, I think,
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percent deployed, wouldn't deploy the last few percent, so that took that
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out as well as part of the equation.
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And when he died, he actually died of not the cancer, not the pancreatic
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cancer, but uh, an infection that he'd acquired in the hospital.
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And,
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Catherine Ashton: and what
period of time was it from him
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dying and his initial diagnosis
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Susan Bollard: after?
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He was diagnosed at the end of September.
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And he died in February
the following year.
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Catherine Ashton: And that was
including that round of chemotherapy
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Susan Bollard: that he did?
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It became, from the time of diagnosis until the time that he died, it was
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just a series of medical interventions.
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So our life wasn't our own, it
was just, it's a doctor, it's
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chemo, it's this, it's that.
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And I was still, I work as a full time secondary school teacher.
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And I was going to work during the day and when I had a later start
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or an early finish school was very accommodating and I was able to,
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uh, to be there as much as I could.
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And he was well enough to be in
the house on his own though, and
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school had the understanding that.
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And if I got a phone
call, I just had to go.
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And we had a couple of good friends who would drop in on times when I thought the
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time period might have been a bit long.
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So he was coherent and understanding and everything all the way through that.
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And then the last more difficult stage all occurred during the
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school holiday period when I
finished up in December from school.
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And with him dying in February, um, I was with him for all of those school holidays.
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So the timing, uh, was such that he had, you know, had me there all the time.
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Catherine Ashton: And it was during, still during COVID, this period?
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Susan Bollard: Yes, even after
he died, we weren't sure what was
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going to happen with a funeral.
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Uh, because people were only
being allowed to go to funerals,
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you know, a few at a time.
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At one stage, I think it was four or five, and then it went to nine,
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uh, two days before Phil's funeral.
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So we organized a funeral, not
knowing whether it was actually
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going to happen, because there was talk with the state government that
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they might be changing the rules.
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And the rules changed on the Wednesday. 162
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His funeral was, I think, on the Friday.
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And he was able to have a, a huge funeral at the church of his choice in Mornington.
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And it was a normal funeral.
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So, you know, timing was everything there.
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And
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Catherine Ashton: in that lead up that you had with him, had you had
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discussions about what his wishes were?
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about death and what he wanted, uh,
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Susan Bollard: after his death?
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Not until the absolute last stage when he was in hospital after they diagnosed
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the block duodenum, because I think that he was always, and even if I was looking
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retrospectively, the chemotherapy was designed to get him better for a period.
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The surgery had been designed.
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To give him greater length of life.
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So it was the surgery, expectations for future, chemotherapy with expectations
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of the future, the operation to put the stent in, still with expectations that
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there was going to be a good outcome.
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And it was only at the last stage.
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And I think you get so overwhelmed with the medical things that are
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going on that we had our wills done.
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All of that part was quite sensibly done.
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Uh, he had written a small exercise book with all of his passwords, his bank
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account numbers and things like that, so that was invaluable to try and sort of
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work out what was going on afterwards.
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Without the passwords, I wouldn't
have been able to get into computers
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00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,539 and he had another house that was used as his design practice.
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00:11:35,129 --> 00:11:39,519 Utilities won't speak to you unless you're either the executor.
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00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,120 So for me to try and live our normal life and pay bills and do
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00:11:47,170 --> 00:11:52,150 things without being able to have passwords and things, I wouldn't
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00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:53,840 have been able to transact anything.
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00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,270 And life had to go on.
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00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:03,340 And tell me
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00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:06,640 Catherine Ashton: how, how did you, how was the funeral organized
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Susan Bollard: for Phil?
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I could have made a huge mistake and I'll go a little bit back in the story.
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I was going home from the hospital one night and I said, I'm just
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going out, I'll be back in an
hour to go home and feed the dogs.
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And the nurse on reception said, Oh, have you got the details
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of Phil's funeral director?
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And I said, I beg your pardon, because at that stage, we were expecting Phil
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to be coming home and arrangements had been made for district nursing
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service and all sorts of things to be happening at home in two days time.
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And I thought I was just
going to feed the dogs.
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And she asked me about
the funeral arrangements.
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And I said, Okay.
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No, handed me a brochure, so I went home and in the time that I was feeding
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the dogs, which was just on an hour round trip, I couldn't think what to
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do, so I popped into my neighbours who were both older people and members of
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a golf club, I thought well maybe this is And And I said, could you tell me,
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with people you know, and friends at the golf club, locally, who are the
215
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funeral directors that everyone goes to?
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I don't know any funeral directors, and they told me the name of the company that
217
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everyone used as being the most reliable.
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So I made a quick phone call to them and said, you know, I've been asked
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this question, do you take anyone on?
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And they said, yes, we do.
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So then I reported back at about 6.
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30 and said, oh, let it be.
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This particular company mentioned it to Phil and he said to me, well, what would
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you do for a funeral service for me?
225
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It was like a quiz.
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And I said, oh, the place at Mount Martha on the Esplanade is very
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nice, it seems very tasteful.
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And he said, oh, you would have done a good job doing that, but no, I would have
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hoped you would have picked a church.
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And he hadn't been to church in the 23 years that we'd been together.
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So I said, well, what
church would that be?
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And he told me, and he had had a very long affiliation there as a younger person.
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been a youth worker associated with them, and he had worked for a Christian
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organisation before he and I had met.
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So then I rang up the minister and had a bit of a chat with her, and she
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asked if I'd like her to come into the hospital, and I facilitated that,
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and then he and she sat down together and talked it over there, and, uh, And
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they worked it out together then, but I would have got it completely wrong.
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Catherine Ashton: So Phil, uh, wanted to have a, a religious service.
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Absolutely.
241
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Yes.
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And that was something that he hadn't given you any indication
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Susan Bollard: prior?
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No.
245
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And I'd asked him lots of times in the time that we were together,
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uh, whether he was only not
going to church because of me.
247
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Uh, I would have been more than happy if he'd chittled off and
248
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gone to church groups and things.
249
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He was, I think, fundamentally, he was a Christian through and
250
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through from his upbringing.
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But when we'd met, his Christian friends were quite spiteful in their
252
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attitudes to the fact that I was a divorced person, and really went
253
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out of their way to be quite mean.
254
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I was referred to, despite all the professional things I've accomplished in
255
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my life, I was referred to at a wedding that we went to by his colleagues as,
256
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oh, you've brought the ballroom dancer.
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And I just took that on the chin, and so did Phil, and he moved away from working
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for a Christian organisation then and, uh, had a complete career change to
259
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work in, uh, the garden design industry.
260
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Catherine Ashton: So was
Phil your second husband,
261
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Susan Bollard: was he?
262
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Yes, he was.
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Yeah.
264
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Okay.
265
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I was divorced and, um, we met
after he was separated for a
266
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considerable period of time.
267
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He wasn't divorced because he thought divorcing would upset his daughter,
268
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who was 12 or 13 at that stage.
269
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So we were together for Just over, oh, we only married in the November, after
270
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he was diagnosed in the November before he married, he died in the February.
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So even though we'd been together all of that time and the majority of the
272
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people that knew us just assumed that we were married, it had never come
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up as an issue for anyone to ask us.
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So yeah, we got married toward the end and that was, it sounds a bit of a bizarre
275
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thing to say, but that was a suggestion of the accountant that we'd had for years.
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And she was also a marriage celebrant, and she knew both of us, and she thought that
277
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that would be a really good thing to do.
278
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So we got married in
our neighbour's garden.
279
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With our account and come marriage celebrant, who's beautiful woman,
280
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and because it was COVID, uh, we had to pick eight selected people.
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We had a group photo taken.
282
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So it looked as though it was a group of older age people getting ready for
283
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a bus tour to the pokies or something.
284
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But it was a very lovely event.
285
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The catering was whip around to
the local bakery and buy some
286
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lovely cakes from there and sausage rolls and done in the dining room.
287
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Because again, Phil was too ill to go, we couldn't go to a restaurant
288
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because restaurants weren't open.
289
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He couldn't get married in the gardens because he had to have particular criteria
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of toilets and things and they weren't undoing the toilets because of COVID.
291
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Yeah.
292
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So, uh, we came up with our own little version of what was a
293
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very lovely and memorable day.
294
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And, uh, our accountant friend
was really right in saying that
295
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that was the right thing to do.
296
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Oh, that's
297
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Catherine Ashton: so special.
298
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Yep.
299
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And did you, you mentioned
that you had written
300
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Susan Bollard: wills?
301
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Yes.
302
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Yeah, I'm very definite that
everyone has to have a will.
303
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And, uh, it doesn't matter whether you own very little or whether you own a lot.
304
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:59,450 I think a will is a document that specifies what you want done.
305
00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:00,700 And
306
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,479 Catherine Ashton: did you also have power of attorneys written as
307
00:18:03,479 --> 00:18:03,989 Susan Bollard: well?
308
00:18:04,835 --> 00:18:10,765 No, we didn't have power of attorney, uh, but being his wife, that was one
309
00:18:10,765 --> 00:18:14,305 of the reasons I think the accountant wanted me to be his wife, because
310
00:18:14,305 --> 00:18:17,475 I was able to make decisions at the hospital that I wouldn't have been
311
00:18:17,605 --> 00:18:20,274 able to make if I was his partner.
312
00:18:20,675 --> 00:18:26,654 That wouldn't have been treated in the same way, uh, but it did have, not
313
00:18:26,655 --> 00:18:30,845 being a financial power of attorney, there was nothing I needed to do.
314
00:18:30,845 --> 00:18:33,835 We had separate money, we
had a joined account, but I
315
00:18:33,835 --> 00:18:35,455 could transact those things.
316
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And I was not the executor of his will, which is probably where the most
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difficult part came in, because you can't do anything with any mobile phones or
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iPads, any organization that you have that you deal with Telstra, Origin,
319
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through the business, unless you're the executor, you can't transact any of that
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to keep your own combined life going.
321
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So that was more important,
I think, than anything else.
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But that.
323
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Had I been financial power of
attorney anyway, that would all have
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ceased at the time of his death.
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So the person that you select
as your executor, I think is the
326
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paramount decision and I wouldn't have known that before of how
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difficult that was going to be.
328
00:19:19,949 --> 00:19:21,680
Catherine Ashton: And can you
talk me through some of the
329
00:19:21,689 --> 00:19:23,280
challenges that you discovered?
330
00:19:23,835 --> 00:19:26,745
you know, about that after Phil died.
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Susan Bollard: Well, he had his own home that he used as a design studio about
332
00:19:30,765 --> 00:19:37,114
300 metres from where we lived, to keep the, because various organisations are
333
00:19:37,115 --> 00:19:42,945
notified at the time of someone's death, you can't own property if you're deceased.
334
00:19:43,404 --> 00:19:47,884
So with the council, the rates
had to be paid, but were they
335
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going to send the rates to me?
336
00:19:49,434 --> 00:19:53,155
Well, no, they would send the rates to the executor, but the executor was very
337
00:19:53,155 --> 00:19:56,725
tardy in documentation that he sent to me.
338
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:03,430
Um, you can't keep your light bill or your gas bill and all sorts of things going,
339
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:05,520
that's all in the hands of the executor.
340
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:08,920
And yet I didn't want to come home and find that the lights were out on my
341
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,470
house or something like that, or the lights were out in the other house.
342
00:20:11,895 --> 00:20:17,155
We'd use both properties simultaneously, and yet for one of them, I was
343
00:20:17,155 --> 00:20:21,055
quite cut off from uh, being able to transact things for that house.
344
00:20:21,064 --> 00:20:25,775
So, you know, that, that did cause some real dilemmas at the time.
345
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And people are quite intransigent.
346
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Unless you're the executor,
they won't deal with you.
347
00:20:31,165 --> 00:20:32,095
And would you say
348
00:20:32,095 --> 00:20:34,345
Catherine Ashton: in your personal experience, that is one of the biggest
349
00:20:34,345 --> 00:20:36,055
challenges that you've experienced?
350
00:20:36,115 --> 00:20:37,005
Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
351
00:20:37,015 --> 00:20:37,415
Yeah.
352
00:20:38,245 --> 00:20:42,865
Even to the stage that time has moved on, it will be three years in February.
353
00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:48,150
It's only relatively recently that I've got the title to one of our vehicles
354
00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:54,600
that I've been driving around since then, because, uh, the executor was tardy in
355
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,870
just deciding not to sign paperwork that was sent to him through the solicitor.
356
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,829
So unless the person's on the ball and, and sees something as being a priority.
357
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,389
It was making my life very difficult.
358
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:13,290
So, fortunately now, through my own chasing around and things, getting
359
00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:17,849
the signature on a piece of paper from the, the executor, and then having some
360
00:21:17,849 --> 00:21:22,250
amazing people at VicRoads who helped me, they talked me through what I would
361
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:24,710
need to do as a minimum to get that done. 362
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:28,690
And I couldn't speak more highly of Vicroads, just the most beautiful people.
363
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:29,780
Oh, that's good.
364
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:30,909
Catherine Ashton: Yeah.
365
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:36,030
And you mentioned when Phil
was, was ill and the challenges
366
00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:37,970
around COVID at that time.
367
00:21:38,590 --> 00:21:43,759
Uh, what support would you have liked to have been given during that period
368
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,820
that perhaps wasn't, or, or could you give an example of, of what was done
369
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:48,150
Susan Bollard: well?
370
00:21:49,670 --> 00:21:54,630
I think what was done appallingly, and, uh, I wrote to them at Cabrini Hospital.
371
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:59,940
A man shouldn't be told that surgery had failed and that his prognosis
372
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:06,540
was quite final and be left in a room for, I've forgotten the amount
373
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:11,200
of time now, but probably about five days without being able to
374
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,219
see anyone in his immediate family.
375
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,270
I understood COVID, I understood the dilemmas of people bringing
376
00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:19,740
disease into a hospital.
377
00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:26,020
Even before he went into hospital, he, he and I both had to have COVID tests.
378
00:22:26,409 --> 00:22:30,259
And from the time that he had the test, a certain amount of days had to
379
00:22:30,259 --> 00:22:34,860
elapse and I wasn't allowed to leave the property again at that stage.
380
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:41,479
So we had to have our milk, milk and bread, hung in a supermarket bag, a
381
00:22:41,479 --> 00:22:45,789
plastic bag as it was then, have that hung on the gate because they didn't
382
00:22:45,789 --> 00:22:48,049
want us to, to gain any infection.
383
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,709
So we had that period
of isolation at home.
384
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:55,180
And when I dropped him at the hospital, I had to just drop him at the door.
385
00:22:55,450 --> 00:23:00,319
And similarly, when I picked him up to go home, he was brought down to the
386
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,460
front door by the staff and then just bundled into my car and off we drove home.
387
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:11,179
But I think that was just so callous and unprofessional to not have anyone there.
388
00:23:11,179 --> 00:23:14,030
And it was only when I insisted
that they must have had some
389
00:23:14,030 --> 00:23:15,870
sort of social worker on staff.
390
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:19,950
And they had a civilian visitor, I think was the person that sat
391
00:23:19,950 --> 00:23:21,010
with him for a little while.
392
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,330
And
393
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:27,710
Catherine Ashton: what are the sort of things that you feel, in hindsight now,
394
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:32,029
would have been really beneficial for you to have had that support at that
395
00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:32,569
Susan Bollard: stage?
396
00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:37,939
The private hospital was very negligent.
397
00:23:38,010 --> 00:23:40,930
I should have taken an action
of negligence against them
398
00:23:40,990 --> 00:23:42,840
afterwards for his treatment there.
399
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:47,320
But a friend who's involved in the medical system said, don't even bother,
400
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,625
they just cover up and It's happened to two other friends more recently, but I
401
00:23:52,635 --> 00:23:55,825
would like someone at the hospital to have sort of sat me down and said, look,
402
00:23:55,915 --> 00:23:59,545
you know, this is some of the things that you probably need to think about.
403
00:23:59,554 --> 00:24:02,035
Some of the things that
you need to work through.
404
00:24:03,115 --> 00:24:06,014
Yes, it's COVID times, this
is some of the dilemmas.
405
00:24:07,085 --> 00:24:11,865
Um, but finding out that I had to find out about a funeral director when I was
406
00:24:11,865 --> 00:24:13,835
going for, you know, a dog feed break.
407
00:24:14,325 --> 00:24:18,075
Uh, was very confronting and again, a very unprofessional approach.
408
00:24:18,075 --> 00:24:22,585
So whether it's down to COVID and that's why hospitals were so ill
409
00:24:22,585 --> 00:24:27,095
prepared or whether hospitals are so blasé with dealing with it all the
410
00:24:27,095 --> 00:24:32,445
time, uh, I think there's a lot of scope that more should happen there.
411
00:24:32,524 --> 00:24:36,625
Even if it had been a booklet or something someone had given me in advance
412
00:24:36,635 --> 00:24:40,235
so that the two of us, when Phil was quite lucid as he was, We could have
413
00:24:40,235 --> 00:24:43,675
sat there and talked it through, but he was expecting to get better, and
414
00:24:43,675 --> 00:24:47,685
we'd been led, because he was coming home, to believe that we had that time
415
00:24:47,685 --> 00:24:49,485
at home to do those sorts of things.
416
00:24:50,044 --> 00:24:54,424
Uh, initially it was about, you know, prognosis six to eight years, then
417
00:24:54,424 --> 00:24:56,074
it was going to be a couple of years.
418
00:24:56,485 --> 00:24:59,755
And then it came down to
the final stage, which was a
419
00:24:59,755 --> 00:25:02,105
couple of, uh, couple of weeks.
420
00:25:02,105 --> 00:25:06,365
And from when I took him back to the hospital, uh, he didn't come out.
421
00:25:06,645 --> 00:25:08,765
That was about two weeks in hospital then.
422
00:25:09,964 --> 00:25:12,934
Catherine Ashton: And are you
comfortable talking to me about that
423
00:25:12,935 --> 00:25:16,879
period when, those last few weeks when, when Phil was in hospital?
424
00:25:17,490 --> 00:25:18,470
Susan Bollard: Yep, not a problem.
425
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:24,190
Some people would say that I handled what they might describe as grief
426
00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:27,729
quite differently to others, but I think, I'd like to think I'm
427
00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:29,989
a sensible and pragmatic person.
428
00:25:30,610 --> 00:25:34,449
And I was fairly stoic in just
knowing I had to work through
429
00:25:34,449 --> 00:25:36,720
things because I have no children.
430
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,950
He had a daughter who was living overseas, so I was really, it
431
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:42,460
was down to me to do things.
432
00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:45,720
And
433
00:25:46,429 --> 00:25:49,169
Catherine Ashton: what are the sort of things that you, you prepared in those,
434
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,389
Susan Bollard: in those sort of weeks?
435
00:25:52,465 --> 00:25:56,425
Well, once we realized how he was not going to get any better, and there was
436
00:25:56,425 --> 00:26:01,825
nothing more medically that we could do, we made the arrangements for his funeral.
437
00:26:01,845 --> 00:26:06,305
I organized for the minister at the church that he wanted, he wanted a church
438
00:26:06,305 --> 00:26:11,405
funeral, uh, organized the minister to come in and sit with him and talk
439
00:26:11,405 --> 00:26:17,495
with him and talk over aspects of the service, so he had a real call in that.
440
00:26:19,115 --> 00:26:23,695
He went through with his little book of passwords, and bank account numbers,
441
00:26:23,695 --> 00:26:25,185
where to find things like that.
442
00:26:26,355 --> 00:26:30,565
He was very, very ill, but was determined that I was going to learn how to use
443
00:26:30,565 --> 00:26:34,765
the ride-on mower that I'd never used, how to start the brush cutter, we
444
00:26:34,765 --> 00:26:37,154
live on a substantial sized property.
445
00:26:37,715 --> 00:26:41,784
And there were things that he thought I just needed to, to learn to know, just
446
00:26:41,784 --> 00:26:43,735
to get by until I got myself sorted out.
447
00:26:44,084 --> 00:26:45,824
So I was very much appreciative of that.
448
00:26:46,274 --> 00:26:49,124
And that was the, the sort of
partnership we had that, you know,
449
00:26:50,095 --> 00:26:53,665
he would be going, but I would
have to manage after he was gone.
450
00:26:56,004 --> 00:26:56,394
And from
451
00:26:56,399 --> 00:27:00,925
Catherine Ashton: your point of view, what do you believe are probably the most
452
00:27:00,985 --> 00:27:05,634
challenging things when you're looking at, you know, facing a loved one's death.
453
00:27:09,324 --> 00:27:11,395
Susan Bollard: I had a, a
list that he'd given me.
454
00:27:11,925 --> 00:27:19,005
of once he'd actually died, who I had to ring, and I think looking at the list
455
00:27:19,005 --> 00:27:25,134
of people before he died, and it was all typed up, he sat down on the computer
456
00:27:25,135 --> 00:27:27,125
and he typed up the list of people.
457
00:27:28,165 --> 00:27:31,705
I think looking at that and realising that everything was going to be
458
00:27:31,705 --> 00:27:35,055
final, and I had to sort of follow through with that, that was one
459
00:27:35,055 --> 00:27:36,345
of the really difficult things.
460
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:43,460
And, and just trying to keep his spirits up in hospital when, because he was a
461
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:47,690
Christian and because he knew he wasn't getting better, he was ready to go.
462
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,239
He was on a mission that
he knew where he was going.
463
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:52,600
He was not fearful of dying.
464
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:54,850
He was ready to be out of there.
465
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,279
Uh, so it was a real contradiction for me of sitting and chatting
466
00:27:59,370 --> 00:28:00,960
and buoying his spirits.
467
00:28:01,709 --> 00:28:06,890
But also knowing that he was, if he could have gone any day there,
468
00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:09,290
he was not wanting to linger on.
469
00:28:10,299 --> 00:28:10,799
Catherine Ashton: Yeah.
470
00:28:11,429 --> 00:28:16,289
Um, from your personal experience with, with Phil and, and other experiences in
471
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:22,400
your life, uh, how would you recommend or suggest people can support you during
472
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:25,620
that period and, and after when someone
473
00:28:25,630 --> 00:28:26,179
Susan Bollard: dies?
474
00:28:28,090 --> 00:28:32,610
Oh, a really difficult question that one, because it hits at
475
00:28:32,610 --> 00:28:34,310
what I had to do for myself.
476
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,600
After the funeral, from the time that Phil passed away in the hospital,
477
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,160
the realisation was very much, you're on your own girl, you've
478
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,639
just gotta, you know, gotta do this.
479
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:56,370
There weren't people who were offering help, and I don't think I probably needed
480
00:28:56,370 --> 00:29:04,350
help because I knew what had to be done, but people meaning really well, and uh,
481
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:10,340
ringing my young colleagues at school when I took a period of bereavement leave,
482
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,730
there's a, a period of, I had three, two weeks, three weeks of bereavement leave,
483
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:21,650
and they were trying to be nice, but they would say, are you feeling better?
484
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:27,930
Each, each person who would
say, are you feeling better?
485
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,340
I got to the stage, I wanted to scream at them and say, I haven't had the flu.
486
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,550
And yet I would smile and nod and say, yes, you know, we're getting by.
487
00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:41,069
People would say to me, I can't
believe, you know, the grief, the
488
00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:42,839
grief you must be going through. 489
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,380
And it was strange.
490
00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:48,770
I had to sort of play a role in, I want to say, it's not grief.
491
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,140
And eventually I did this and
it's not grief, it's bewilderment.
492
00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:59,475
Uh, one moment you're part of a, a team, and you work very successfully as a team.
493
00:30:00,455 --> 00:30:03,805
And then you find that everything in your life that's meshed together
494
00:30:03,915 --> 00:30:09,515
for, you know, 23 plus years, uh, you've suddenly got to unravel that
495
00:30:09,575 --> 00:30:13,155
to run things on your own again.
496
00:30:13,965 --> 00:30:15,515
And that takes a lot of confidence.
497
00:30:15,545 --> 00:30:20,465
And I did things that I think people who were maybe more Phil's friends, Probably
498
00:30:20,475 --> 00:30:25,585
thought it was a bit odd, about two weeks after his funeral, I rang up a friend who
499
00:30:25,585 --> 00:30:31,725
had a dance studio and a social dance and I said, this is what's happened, I own
500
00:30:31,725 --> 00:30:35,425
another studio so you don't necessarily,
in case they think you're trying to do
501
00:30:35,465 --> 00:30:39,785
intellectual uh, espionage or something of their business, I said I would like to
502
00:30:39,785 --> 00:30:45,255
come dancing because I've got to find who I used to be before I was part of a team.
503
00:30:45,765 --> 00:30:49,835
And I used dance and going where there were completely anonymous
504
00:30:49,835 --> 00:30:55,265
people that would ask me nothing about Phil, nothing about my life,
505
00:30:55,585 --> 00:30:57,595
nothing about how I was coping.
506
00:30:57,885 --> 00:31:02,575
So that was my strategy that
worked well for me to strengthen
507
00:31:02,575 --> 00:31:08,335
myself by, uh, pushing myself to go to places where no one knew me.
508
00:31:08,665 --> 00:31:15,295
And dancing was fabulous for me because you drive yourself there, you go in,
509
00:31:15,895 --> 00:31:19,465
you talk to people politely while you're there, you dance with people,
510
00:31:19,465 --> 00:31:21,725
you get in your own car and you go home.
511
00:31:22,045 --> 00:31:26,765
It's just the old fashioned sort of cliche of a safe place to go.
512
00:31:28,435 --> 00:31:28,665
And
513
00:31:28,665 --> 00:31:33,780
Catherine Ashton: so you
found yourself by Anonymity.
514
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:34,900
Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
515
00:31:35,410 --> 00:31:39,210
And I cope much better with that, and I've suggested that to people.
516
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,640
Maybe I was lucky in that I didn't have children, and that sounds a strange
517
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,070
thing to say, but people in my own age group who've got children seem
518
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:51,040
to get closeted by their children.
519
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,140
And they seem to get looked after in a way that their children think
520
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,830
that they need looking after.
521
00:31:59,255 --> 00:32:03,345
And the children seem to take, seem to take over the role of managing their life.
522
00:32:04,295 --> 00:32:07,345
And then I met a lot, meet a lot of these people when they come to the dance
523
00:32:07,355 --> 00:32:11,885
studio, maybe 12 months or two years later, where they're trying to find
524
00:32:11,885 --> 00:32:17,165 themselves then when they realize that they've been smothered by their close
525
00:32:17,165 --> 00:32:21,365 family and particularly their children and they try and find themselves.
526
00:32:21,685 --> 00:32:25,805 Whereas I knew having no one, I had to find myself very quickly
527
00:32:25,815 --> 00:32:30,545 and I had to find out what gave me my tenacity and my strength.
528
00:32:31,410 --> 00:32:34,630 Uh, all those years ago before I met Phil, I had my business, the dance
529
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,430 studio, before I met Phil, and I knew that I could run that business on my
530
00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:40,710 own, and I had to find that again.
531
00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:44,110 And that was my strategy, and I think that was my strength too,
532
00:32:44,140 --> 00:32:45,630 that worked really well for me.
533
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:49,030 Catherine Ashton: And that's what gave you the confidence, was?
534
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:49,980 Susan Bollard: Absolutely.
535
00:32:50,030 --> 00:32:57,110
Because I, I knew that I had been a very confident individual as a single person.
536
00:32:58,550 --> 00:33:01,160
I had been a part of a very strong team.
537
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:06,520
But I had to work out how to work as that very independent, confident person again,
538
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:10,300
because the team had been disbanded, so.
539
00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:15,070
Catherine Ashton: And what other skills did you find yourself having to take on?
540
00:33:15,070 --> 00:33:18,290
You mentioned the ride on
mower, the whipper snipper.
541
00:33:19,475 --> 00:33:21,115
Did you have to now start paying
542
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:22,235
Susan Bollard: bills or?
543
00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:24,485
I'd always paid all of my own bills.
544
00:33:24,485 --> 00:33:29,675
We'd had two houses and one had been used as a design office and the other
545
00:33:29,675 --> 00:33:31,475
one had been the house that we lived in.
546
00:33:32,935 --> 00:33:36,075
Phil was in the middle of thinking about a renovation and I wasn't quite
547
00:33:36,075 --> 00:33:37,655
sure what to do with the other house.
548
00:33:38,745 --> 00:33:44,285
I found out very quickly that legally you have two years to sell a property,
549
00:33:44,285 --> 00:33:48,655
if you're going to sell a property, before you include capital gains
550
00:33:48,655 --> 00:33:50,995
tax, uh, and all sorts of things.
551
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,000
And two years is a very short period of time, particularly when COVID impacted
552
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,930
on a very significant part of that time.
553
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,730
Almost 12 months of it was taken up with things to do with the COVID lockdowns.
554
00:34:04,235 --> 00:34:08,465
It was, I couldn't think what to do, so I thought, well, yes, he had asbestos
555
00:34:08,465 --> 00:34:12,235
walls on two sides that he was going to take down, so I renovated his house.
556
00:34:13,085 --> 00:34:15,805
The windows had to be
replaced, I put new windows in.
557
00:34:16,375 --> 00:34:19,625
And that was probably going through the motions of doing things that I
558
00:34:19,635 --> 00:34:21,535
thought were sensible things to do.
559
00:34:22,165 --> 00:34:27,625
As it turned out then, uh, towards the end of the two years, I got my first real
560
00:34:27,625 --> 00:34:30,345
shock financially in regards his house.
561
00:34:30,345 --> 00:34:31,885
I hadn't rented it out.
562
00:34:31,885 --> 00:34:36,235
I put a friend in as a caretaker with no rent because that meant that
563
00:34:36,235 --> 00:34:37,535
the insurance was still covered.
564
00:34:38,995 --> 00:34:41,885
But I was still maintaining
the extensive grounds there.
565
00:34:42,905 --> 00:34:46,515
And I found out that I then
was incurring land tax.
566
00:34:46,615 --> 00:34:52,520
So by the time I had the The impost of land tax, the insurance for the house,
567
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,940
and the extensive rates, just to keep the house long enough for me to work out what
568
00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:01,520
to do with it, would have been nearly ten and a half thousand dollars a year.
569
00:35:02,010 --> 00:35:05,240
And out of a single teacher's
salary, that was just too much.
570
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:09,190
So that was the catalyst that led me to, against my better judgement,
571
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:12,040
but now I know I did the right
thing, to have to sell the house.
572
00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:14,700
And
573
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,680
Catherine Ashton: that takes a lot of confidence to actually make that decision.
574
00:35:21,845 --> 00:35:26,825
Did it impact on your grieving, having to let go of the house, or how did you feel
575
00:35:26,825 --> 00:35:27,555
Susan Bollard: about that process?
576
00:35:27,645 --> 00:35:35,645
Um, I felt, it wasn't so much grief, it was guilt, because I, I knew that
577
00:35:35,755 --> 00:35:41,505
the house was very special to him, and the house was filled with his lifetime
578
00:35:41,505 --> 00:35:45,755
treasures, going back to diaries that he'd had from year eight and things.
579
00:35:46,235 --> 00:35:50,445
So to sell the house meant that
I also had to empty the house.
580
00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:56,880
So it was filing cabinets of
personal documents and anecdotes
581
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,140
that he'd held onto since he was a, I suppose, a 14 year old boy.
582
00:36:01,350 --> 00:36:04,700
There were things that I was reading that I would open something before I threw it
583
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:08,680
out to make sure that it was something that I should have been throwing out.
584
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:13,250
And sometimes I'd think, no, this was something that I shouldn't be reading,
585
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:14,900
so I'd have to close it up very quickly.
586
00:36:15,490 --> 00:36:16,670
I made up boxes.
587
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,480
He'd had his mother and father's memorabilia in the house.
588
00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:26,265
So I made up boxes for
things to go to his siblings.
589
00:36:27,130 --> 00:36:31,280
And things to be boxed up to hang on to for his daughter, who in fact
590
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:33,180
subsequently has come back to Australia.
591
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:37,910
So I was able to give those boxes to her so that she could go through
592
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:42,500
that grief process that she hadn't been able to manage because she
593
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:44,150
hadn't been in Australia at the time.
594
00:36:45,085 --> 00:36:49,955
So there was a lot of, a lot of sorting, a lot of culling, a lot of
595
00:36:49,955 --> 00:36:54,555
feeling badly about what to do with his beautiful architectural books.
596
00:36:54,585 --> 00:37:00,135
He was a design, he worked as an architectural draftsman, but he was also
597
00:37:00,155 --> 00:37:02,265
in his own right a landscape designer.
598
00:37:02,475 --> 00:37:05,125
So he did both businesses simultaneously.
599
00:37:05,575 --> 00:37:09,045
And I've still got a room full of books that I had to go out to Ikea
600
00:37:09,045 --> 00:37:12,455
and buy bookcases for because I didn't have the heart to get rid of
601
00:37:12,455 --> 00:37:14,345
his precious professional library.
602
00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:19,620
I'm never going to read three or four Ikea bookshelves full of, uh,
603
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,120
bookcases full of professional books. 604
00:37:22,620 --> 00:37:26,340 But I felt obliged to do justice to that by hanging on to them.
605
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:28,840 But it was a, it was a big process.
606
00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:30,790 That sounds like it.
607
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:35,240 Catherine Ashton: And has there been any incidents that have
608
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,710 influenced your personal thoughts on
609
00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:37,990 Susan Bollard: death?
610
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,560 I didn't want to ever be cremated.
611
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,570 I wanted to be buried.
612
00:37:45,315 --> 00:37:48,695 I wanted them to play the, the only request I had was, uh, the
613
00:37:48,695 --> 00:37:51,375 music Always look on the bright side and everyone encouraged to
614
00:37:51,375 --> 00:37:53,815 click and clap along as I went out.
615
00:37:55,035 --> 00:37:58,305 I was very reluctant to tell anything, anyone much about Phil's death.
616
00:37:59,415 --> 00:38:03,985
I was with him, sitting with him at the time that he died, but I've become
617
00:38:03,985 --> 00:38:09,455
more confident with sharing that Phil was a very Christian person and had
618
00:38:09,455 --> 00:38:11,065
no doubts about where he was going.
619
00:38:11,685 --> 00:38:14,975
I was holding his hand, I
realised that he was fading away.
620
00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:24,345
I saw a mustard, can only describe a small mustard cloud, emanate from his chest.
621
00:38:24,405 --> 00:38:26,995
I thought it through and I thought, he's not breathing that out.
622
00:38:27,495 --> 00:38:29,565
It's not coming out
from any other orifice.
623
00:38:30,085 --> 00:38:34,495
I believe that was his soul leaving his body in the maybe five minutes
624
00:38:34,495 --> 00:38:36,995
or so before he actually died.
625
00:38:37,975 --> 00:38:41,835
His hand was still warm
and you could still feel.
626
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:45,110
But I went out and I said to the nurse, I think you better come in.
627
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:47,060
I think Phil's died.
628
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,310
And she confirmed that yes, he had, but it would take another five minutes.
629
00:38:52,110 --> 00:38:57,230
That gave me quite the profound
experience to, to think about my own
630
00:38:57,230 --> 00:39:01,720
death and death in general, that when we organize a funeral for someone,
631
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:05,890
they're somewhere else probably
looking on, they're not actually there.
632
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,060
And so my ideas will have to be
reviewed when I get around to it.
633
00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:15,250
And that's the next stage
for me to think through.
634
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,990
of how do I feel about
funerals and, uh, and things.
635
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:22,670
I'm not a religious person, so
it wouldn't be a church service.
636
00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:27,790
So yeah, it's, it's changed my way of thinking much more significantly than I
637
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:30,110
would have ever thought in a profound way.
638
00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:32,230
And
639
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:34,710 Catherine Ashton: you mentioned that you don't have children.
640
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,040 No.
641
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,130 You've, you've had your own will.
642
00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:37,430 Yep.
643
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,590 What other sort of planning, obviously you're starting to
644
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,110 think about what you would, would like for your, your own funeral.
645
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:47,960 What other things have you, you considered in relation to
646
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,360 Susan Bollard: this?
647
00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:52,220 Well, because of this rethinking it, I always thought that I
648
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:54,000 would be buried in a cemetery.
649
00:39:54,850 --> 00:40:01,960 And again, I teach sustainability, Phil was very big on sustainability.
650
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,370 And the whole idea of taking up land by cemeteries is something
651
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:08,350
that I'll have to come to consider.
652
00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:13,260
I think having worked on traditional history for years and things.
653
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:17,040
Um, I always used to joke to people and say, well, I don't want to turn up in
654
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,900
the next life with a few bits missing if that's what happens after cremation.
655
00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:26,140
But I will have to rethink that in time, but the time hasn't been at the moment.
656
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:29,690
And I understand that if I went suddenly tomorrow, that would be
657
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:31,110
someone's problem to sort out.
658
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,420
But yeah, I'll come to that in time, but that's not the right time yet.
659
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:37,950
But I have put that on the
agenda for more thinking about.
660
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:41,700
And given your
661
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:43,220
Catherine Ashton: personal experience.
662
00:40:43,325 --> 00:40:47,325
Is there any advice or encouragement you'd like to share with
663
00:40:47,325 --> 00:40:47,775
Susan Bollard: others?
664
00:40:52,975 --> 00:40:58,075
I think on the sensible side of having documentation, I've been recently
665
00:40:58,075 --> 00:40:59,985
asked to do this with a friend.
666
00:41:00,465 --> 00:41:05,355
Her children didn't want to ask their mum about her arrangements.
667
00:41:05,855 --> 00:41:11,535
So only a week ago I was asked to speak to my friend and say, look, you know,
668
00:41:11,565 --> 00:41:13,955
things are not good and we, we know that.
669
00:41:15,325 --> 00:41:16,815
What arrangements have you got?
670
00:41:16,815 --> 00:41:18,595
And she said, I really haven't got any.
671
00:41:19,205 --> 00:41:23,815
And she and I talk through those sorts of things about passwords and the pragmatic
672
00:41:23,815 --> 00:41:28,975
side that her bills would be paid while she's, uh, still in hospital and when she
673
00:41:28,975 --> 00:41:34,635
passes away, it's a direct debit until that stage, uh, the nuts and bolts of it,
674
00:41:35,465 --> 00:41:40,375
but also by me having the conversation with her, um, I said, I think you need
675
00:41:40,375 --> 00:41:42,005
to talk to your children about that.
676
00:41:42,525 --> 00:41:47,415
Uh, she's subsequently done that, her daughter then spoke to me and said, I
677
00:41:47,415 --> 00:41:51,855
don't think I'm handling mum being so matter of fact about all of this, but
678
00:41:51,885 --> 00:41:57,145
I think my friend feels much better now that, like Phil, she was going through
679
00:41:57,425 --> 00:42:03,145
what she wants them to know, and, and that's an imminent situation, so I
680
00:42:03,175 --> 00:42:08,435
think she's taking control of it, so I think taking control of, you know,
681
00:42:08,495 --> 00:42:10,005
of your own affairs there probably.
682
00:42:10,005 --> 00:42:14,545
Finally, the other side of it
for the person who's left behind.
683
00:42:16,770 --> 00:42:20,060
I think you really, uh, have to, it doesn't matter what age you are,
684
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:24,070
whether you're younger or you're older and it's going to be really difficult,
685
00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:30,360
but I think you have to find your own self and not rely too much on others.
686
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,930
I think from a lot of people that I, uh, meet through the dance studio,
687
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:40,060
it sometimes takes them several years because their children like to closet
688
00:42:40,070 --> 00:42:42,970
them and pamper them and look after them.
689
00:42:43,525 --> 00:42:48,655
And almost manage the life of the one left behind, but that means once you
690
00:42:48,655 --> 00:42:53,355
dust yourself off, what your children or your close associates want for
691
00:42:53,355 --> 00:42:58,035
you or think is good for you, may not necessarily, uh, once you've thought
692
00:42:58,035 --> 00:42:59,855
about it, be what you want for yourself.
693
00:43:00,405 --> 00:43:02,515
And, and life truly does go on.
694
00:43:03,195 --> 00:43:08,075
And, um, mine, I said before, wasn't so much grief as bewilderment.
695
00:43:09,155 --> 00:43:14,095
I think that you have to handle that situation in a way that is best for you,
696
00:43:14,385 --> 00:43:19,895
that you go on and honour the life of the person who passed away by giving
697
00:43:20,105 --> 00:43:24,735
the best quality to your life, and you being the best person you can be
698
00:43:24,745 --> 00:43:30,705
going forward, not placating others by doing what they think is right for you.
699
00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:33,080
and what they think would be good for you.
700
00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:36,880
Be feisty, be determined, and be yourself.
701
00:43:37,970 --> 00:43:39,780
And keep on dancing, I'm sure.
702
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:45,090
Oh, if I could say to anyone,
it's not about the dancing.
703
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:49,800
For me, I will never be a millionaire from owning a dance business.
704
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:56,690
To me, dancing is a conduit, whether it's death, divorce, just being lost in
705
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:59,110
some way of, you know, losing your job.
706
00:44:00,030 --> 00:44:04,200
Dancing is that really safe space where you can go with people.
707
00:44:04,855 --> 00:44:05,995
of like mind.
708
00:44:06,805 --> 00:44:08,225
Everyone's got a story.
709
00:44:08,345 --> 00:44:11,025
You don't share your
story with anyone there.
710
00:44:11,325 --> 00:44:12,835
The story is the music.
711
00:44:12,865 --> 00:44:14,555
The story is the style.
712
00:44:14,825 --> 00:44:17,925
The story is that you become
part of a new community.
713
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:22,850
I run a group of, a very loose group out of the dance studio, nicknamed
714
00:44:22,890 --> 00:44:24,660
the Naughty Ladies to start with.
715
00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:32,900
Women who were divorced or widowed, which is not a word I'd normally use, but they
716
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:36,210
were sitting home and watching television and they wanted to go out again.
717
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:38,140
They wanted to go and listen to music.
718
00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:39,320
They wanted to go out to dinner.
719
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,570
So I'd say, all right, let's carpool.
720
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:45,440
And the first time there was
five of us and we went out to a
721
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,770
fabulous night at the jazz club.
722
00:44:48,955 --> 00:44:52,405
Then the next time some more people wanted to come, so we had two cars went.
723
00:44:52,785 --> 00:44:56,345
Then I started to get phone calls and people said, what do I have to do
724
00:44:56,345 --> 00:44:58,305
to join the group of naughty ladies?
725
00:44:58,635 --> 00:45:01,335
I said, well, it's not just
a very loose arrangement.
726
00:45:01,345 --> 00:45:02,265
You don't pay anything.
727
00:45:02,265 --> 00:45:03,005
You just say.
728
00:45:03,455 --> 00:45:07,265
You're going out to a particular band or a dance or a destination,
729
00:45:07,275 --> 00:45:08,575
we'd like to tag along.
730
00:45:09,125 --> 00:45:13,685
And then some men start to say, can men go to the group of naughty ladies?
731
00:45:13,695 --> 00:45:15,485
And I said, well, yes,
if you're a naughty man.
732
00:45:16,645 --> 00:45:21,955
But what it's turned out to be now is
I advertise on our, um, Dance Studio
733
00:45:21,955 --> 00:45:26,295
Facebook page, places that I think will be interesting and enticing.
734
00:45:26,615 --> 00:45:29,475
And if anyone wants to go, they
just say, can you make a booking?
735
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:33,630
And it's a loose arrangement, but people can be their own people.
736
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,380
They can go out to things that they would like to go out to and enjoy with their
737
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:42,780
partners before they were either, uh, you know, left on their own after a death.
738
00:45:43,375 --> 00:45:45,345
Or left on their own after divorce.
739
00:45:45,345 --> 00:45:48,805
I think it's probably a similar
reaction, that one of bewilderment.
740
00:45:50,215 --> 00:45:50,335
Oh,
741
00:45:50,335 --> 00:45:51,675
Catherine Ashton: that's beautiful, Susan.
742
00:45:52,075 --> 00:45:55,645
And is there anything else
that you'd like to, to share?
743
00:45:55,765 --> 00:45:57,285
Or any story you'd like to tell? 744
00:45:59,525 --> 00:46:02,535
Susan Bollard: Oh, there's so many stories and so many different things.
745
00:46:04,345 --> 00:46:09,125
No, I think probably all I could think of would be, just be true to yourself.
746
00:46:10,175 --> 00:46:14,265
And, and that will be, there'll be small things, whether you're a lady or a man.
747
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,190
The way you dress when you're part of a couple, when you start to go out
748
00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:23,220
again, you start to look at your clothes and think, is someone going to think
749
00:46:23,220 --> 00:46:25,190
I'm a bit risque if I go out in that?
750
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:31,020
You know, if I go out on my own, are people going to be frowning on that?
751
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:34,550
And you, again, you've just
got to be true to yourself.
752
00:46:34,610 --> 00:46:35,650
You want to keep going.
753
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:36,630
You want to be healthy.
754
00:46:36,820 --> 00:46:38,080
You want to be vibrant.
755
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:41,940
And you want to go into the
future as your own healthy person.
756
00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:45,385 And I think just having confidence, you might have to compromise a
757
00:46:45,385 --> 00:46:49,295 little bit, you know, for a while, but yeah, be your own person.
758
00:46:50,175 --> 00:46:50,455 That's
759
00:46:50,455 --> 00:46:52,305 Catherine Ashton: beautiful
advice to, to end on,
760
00:46:52,305 --> 00:46:52,795 Susan Bollard: Susan.
761
00:46:52,895 --> 00:46:53,385 Thank you.
762
00:46:53,455 --> 00:46:54,875 And thank you for giving me the time.
763
00:46:55,215 --> 00:46:56,175 Catherine Ashton: Oh, thank you for
764
00:46:56,255 --> 00:46:57,565 Susan Bollard: being a guest today.
765
00:46:58,005 --> 00:46:58,765 Much appreciated.
766
00:47:00,395 --> 00:47:03,505 Catherine Ashton: We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught
767
00:47:03,535 --> 00:47:05,715 Dead, brought to you by Critical Info.
768
00:47:06,645 --> 00:47:10,905
If you liked the episode, learnt something new, or were touched by a story you
769
00:47:10,905 --> 00:47:12,565
heard, we'd love for you to let us know.
770
00:47:13,005 --> 00:47:16,595
Send us an email, even tell
your friends, subscribe so you
771
00:47:16,595 --> 00:47:18,325
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772
00:47:18,515 --> 00:47:22,635
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773
00:47:22,645 --> 00:47:24,375
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774
00:47:24,695 --> 00:47:26,055
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775
00:47:26,205 --> 00:47:29,665
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776
00:47:29,965 --> 00:47:31,555
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777
00:47:31,995 --> 00:47:33,855
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778
00:47:33,905 --> 00:47:37,265
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