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Oh, it was difficult.

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I mean, I keep looking at him and I kept
thinking, any minute he's just gonna

3
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sort of get up and say, yeah, I fool you.

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Like, 'cause he did have a wicked sense
of humor and loved to play tricks.

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And so I think over those ensuing
days, just seeing how he was, I

6
... Read More

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Oh, it was difficult.

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00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,510
I mean, I keep looking at him and I kept
thinking, any minute he's just gonna

3
00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:08,790
sort of get up and say, yeah, I fool you.

4
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Like, 'cause he did have a wicked sense
of humor and loved to play tricks.

5
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And so I think over those ensuing
days, just seeing how he was, I

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slowly came to accept that yes, he
was definitely not surviving this and.

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If he wasn't going to survive, then
maybe the best thing that we could

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do is to give life to someone else.

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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead.

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00:00:35,795 --> 00:00:40,775
A podcast encouraging open conversations
about dying and the death of a loved one.

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00:00:41,315 --> 00:00:46,265
I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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00:00:46,265 --> 00:00:49,175
bring your stories of death back to life.

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Because while you may not be ready
to die, at least you can be prepared.

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Don't be caught dead.

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Acknowledges the lands of the
Kulin Nations and recognizes their

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connection to land, sea, and community.

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We pay our respects to their
elders past, present, and emerging.

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And extend that respect to all Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander and First

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Nation peoples around the globe.

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Today I'm speaking with Adele.

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Adele, sadly lost her son, Dan
in 2020, and Dan went on to

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transform many lives through organ
donation and tissue donation.

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Thank you so much for
speaking with us today, Adele.

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Thank you Catherine.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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So

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Adele, tell us a little bit about Dan.

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Oh, there is so much that I could say.

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He was an amazing man.

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He was very kindhearted,
great sense of humor.

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But I suppose the thing that defined
him the most was his love of music.

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And that was evident from the
time that he was quite young.

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So even as like I'd say a. 5-year-old, he
would grab the neighborhood kids and set

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up a band and he would use his toy box as
the drum kit and an extension cord as the

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microphone, and he'd have all the other
kids set up with instruments of various

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sorts and, and he was very persistent
around wanting to learn the drums.

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And so he started having lessons at
quite a young age, and we bought him a

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drum kit for his eighth birthday and.

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We used to travel quite a bit too, 'cause
we live regionally, so we had to travel

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quite a bit to get him to music lessons.

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But it was just a lifelong passion that
remained with him right up until he died.

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He has a great knowledge of music
and he was also very clear about what

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he liked and what he didn't like.

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For example, on Christmas day,
we would only hear scar music.

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Wow.

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That's not everyone's melodic tune
choice on Christmas day, is it?

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No, certainly not.

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And not mine, but we would
all go along with it.

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'cause he would just, yeah.

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Take over the music for the day.

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So, and my other kids all
remember that as a very fond

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memory of Dan and Christmas Day.

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And how many other children
was, was Dan the youngest?

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The oldest, the middle child?

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Was he an only child?

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He's the, um, eldest of four.

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And was he the

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first death in the family?

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Well, I'm not quite
sure how to answer that.

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My dad died in 1997, so
that's quite some time ago.

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My young nephew in CAIRs
suicided 14 years ago.

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So while Dan wasn't the first death there,
I don't think there's anything that can

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prepare you for the loss of a child.

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I dunno whether you saw the Nick Cave
interview recently on the A, B, C.

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It was very powerful, wasn't it?

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It was very powerful and his
words really struck me around.

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He was talking about his wife
and her reaction 'cause they have

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lost two sons and he was saying
that he thinks it's very different

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for women and I can't comment on.

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It's like for fathers because I'm not
one, but you know, as a mother you

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carry that child within your body.

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You grow another human and they're
part of you from, you know, like as

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soon as you know you're pregnant,
you are relating to that child.

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From that moment, I think certainly
was the case for me with all of mine.

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And so it's a very sort of
unique relationship, but also

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then a very profound loss.

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I used to always say that I
think the worst loss I could

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imagine would be losing a child.

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And I, yeah, I never
thought it would be me.

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And are you comfortable talking
about when you got the notification

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that Dan had had an accident?

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Look, we were at home, it was a
Saturday night and to get a call from

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Dan at, you know, at eight 30 on a
Saturday night was pretty unusual.

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So I answered the phone.

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'cause usually be out,

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especially someone that you know has
a love of music that is very striking.

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Ah,

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well also it was during COVID,
so I think there was still some

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restrictions on people's movement.

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But as Steve o, the lead singer in the
band has said, Dan was always the first to

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arrive at a party and the last to leave.

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I received this call from him and he said
that he'd had a fall and that he had hurt

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his head and that these kind people had
come to his aid and were staying with him

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and waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

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And so we chatted for a bit and
I said to him, look, as soon as

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you get in the ambulance, please
let me know where they're taking

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you, and then we will head down.

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'cause we had about an hour and a quarters
drive ahead of us, but I didn't hear back.

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Then about 10 30, we were unsure whether
we, you know, should go to bed, should

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we make our way to Melbourne, what to do.

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And then we got a call from the Royal
Melbourne to say that he had been

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admitted there and that it was quite
serious and that we should make our

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way down, and that the neurosurgeon
was looking at the scans that they'd

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taken and would be in touch with us.

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And so we were only about 15
minutes into the journey when.

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The neurosurgeon rang and that she
had looked at the scans and she was

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very sorry to tell me that it was
unsurvivable and I, I couldn't believe it.

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And I said to her, I only spoke to
him a couple of hours ago after his

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accident, and given the amount of
brain damage that he sustained in

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the fall, she couldn't believe it.

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She couldn't believe that he came
to, 'cause he was unconscious.

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About five minutes after the fall,
and then somehow the people who

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came to his aid were able to get
his phone and must have gotten

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his pin and he wanted to ring me.

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So I feel very fortunate that I heard like
his last words and I would've heard his

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first words when he was just the baby.

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So it was incredible, and the
doctor could not believe that

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he was able to even speak.

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And just even thinking about the
logistics of that, Adele, the fact that

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someone had to actually get into his
phone and then make that phone call

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and then him to be able to speak to
you directly, that is unbelievable.

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Yeah, it is.

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He lost consciousness as soon as
he got into the ambulance, and

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then I think because he was then
critical, they re diverted and so,

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you know, then we knew where to go.

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So then on the trip down, I'm busy
ringing his father, my other children.

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Stan's ex-wife who was in Queensland.

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00:07:27,855 --> 00:07:32,145
So there was a part of me that was
sort of functioning almost on autopilot

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thinking I had to let these other people
know we had to get to the hospital.

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00:07:36,885 --> 00:07:40,664
But there was another part of me that
was still quite disbelieving of it.

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I think because of this recent
conversation I'd had with him, I

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thought, I don't think I quite believe
it until I could see him and once I saw

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him, of course it was very believable.

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And are you comfortable talking through
that process of when you saw him and then

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the conversations that were had thereafter
about the possibility of donating?

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00:08:01,604 --> 00:08:02,594
Yes, certainly.

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00:08:02,775 --> 00:08:07,905
So he was in a and E when we arrived,
and then they moved him up to Ward.

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00:08:07,905 --> 00:08:12,825
And because of all the COVID, well, COVID
was still rife and the community at that

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00:08:12,825 --> 00:08:17,820
time, he had to have a COVID test and be
isolated before we could see him again.

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00:08:18,555 --> 00:08:23,085
So they scheduled a meeting with us
the next day and said, come back.

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00:08:23,085 --> 00:08:28,515
So his father and I went up to ICU
and we could look at him through a

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00:08:28,515 --> 00:08:32,715
window, but we couldn't go into the
room again once he was moved up there.

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And so the hospital scheduled a medical
meeting the next day with all of us.

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And it was interesting though, I went
to see him before the meeting and there

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00:08:44,895 --> 00:08:47,085
was something different about him, like.

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I knew then that he'd gone.

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00:08:49,875 --> 00:08:53,564
There was something different
about, I mean, he was still on life

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00:08:53,564 --> 00:08:58,454
support and you know, still having
a ventilator, keeping him alive.

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00:08:58,454 --> 00:09:03,135
But I didn't feel that Dan, like his
essence or his spirit, whatever you

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00:09:03,135 --> 00:09:05,295
want to call it, was still there.

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00:09:05,715 --> 00:09:06,615
I felt he'd gone.

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00:09:07,305 --> 00:09:10,995
And when I mentioned this to the
doctor, he said, well, it's actually

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00:09:10,995 --> 00:09:14,295
quite observant of you, because he
said that would've been the case that

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00:09:14,445 --> 00:09:18,015
the brain trauma was so significant
that, you know, it just would've,

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00:09:18,435 --> 00:09:20,295
his brain would've bled out slowly.

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00:09:20,295 --> 00:09:24,405
So by the time I saw him the
next day, there would not

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00:09:24,405 --> 00:09:25,785
have been any brain activity.

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00:09:26,175 --> 00:09:29,500
So in that medical meeting,
look, the staff, I can't.

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Talk highly enough about how wonderful
they were at the Royal Melbourne.

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And I remember the doctor
saying to me, did he ever talk

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00:09:36,390 --> 00:09:37,830
to you about his last wishes?

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00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,750
And I thought he meant funeral
arrangements, but for some

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00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:44,220
reason, that's where my mind went.

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And he said, no.

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He said, I, I mean about organ donation.

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And we all looked at each other
and said, well, no, he, he never

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had that conversation with us.

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I suppose it's probably not a
conversation that people have enough.

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But we were all unanimous and all in
agreement that it would be exactly

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00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:11,250
what Dan would want because he was
so kindhearted and so generous and so

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00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:17,370
thoughtful about others that we just
we're all in agreement that if he

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00:10:17,370 --> 00:10:18,540
could have given permission, he would.

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00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:23,190
And when you say we,
Adele, it was yourself.

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00:10:23,340 --> 00:10:26,010
And who else was part of
that decision making process?

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00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:31,590
So Dan's father, my husband Michael,
and my other three children, their

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00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:36,690
partners and Dan's ex-wife who'd
just come down from Queensland.

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And what was it like to go through
that process of deciding and then

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from what happens thereafter?

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00:10:44,459 --> 00:10:45,839
I remember it all really clearly.

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Actually.

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00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:53,040
They did a very good job explaining
the process and also said to us that if

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00:10:53,130 --> 00:10:57,569
one person wasn't in agreement with the
decision, that they wouldn't go ahead.

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00:10:57,990 --> 00:11:01,170
We either all needed to
be in or it didn't happen.

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00:11:01,740 --> 00:11:04,680
So I'm very grateful that we were all in.

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00:11:05,189 --> 00:11:09,930
And then from there, I think there must
have been another meeting scheduled

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00:11:09,930 --> 00:11:12,360
with someone from the Donate Life team.

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00:11:12,810 --> 00:11:14,100
Maybe the next day.

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00:11:14,490 --> 00:11:19,110
And there was also then a medical like
interview that happened with Dan's

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00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,490
ex-wife and me because you know when
your child's at that age, I mean, Dan was

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00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:25,770
just a few days before his 48th birthday.

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00:11:25,950 --> 00:11:29,190
You don't know the ins and outs of your
child's medical history at that age.

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00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:29,850
Mm-hmm.

193
00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:34,170
So she participated in that
medical interview with me.

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00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:39,870
Because they won't take organs unless
they're 100% sure that it's going

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00:11:39,870 --> 00:11:41,880
to be, well, hopefully success.

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00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,530
They'll only take organs that
are functioning well and that

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00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:50,640
have the best hope of survival,
I suppose, upon transplanting.

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00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:54,450
So there were a whole series of tests
then that needed to be done on his

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00:11:54,450 --> 00:12:00,570
various organs and also asking us
what we would agree to have taken.

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00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:01,740
So.

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00:12:02,145 --> 00:12:04,965
We donated his heart, his two kidneys.

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00:12:04,965 --> 00:12:07,395
So his heart has given life to someone.

203
00:12:08,265 --> 00:12:11,355
His two kidneys allowed two
people to come off dialysis.

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00:12:12,045 --> 00:12:14,625
His eyes have given sight to people.

205
00:12:15,045 --> 00:12:21,710
We also agreed to skin tissue and
bones being removed if needed.

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00:12:21,825 --> 00:12:26,415
So, you know, for chemotherapy
patients, burns victims, there's

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00:12:26,415 --> 00:12:27,585
lots of different ways that.

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00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,950
Different parts of his body were used
and have made a difference to people.

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00:12:32,610 --> 00:12:38,310
And tell me, what was it like navigating
your grieving process through that time?

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00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:40,110
Oh, it was difficult.

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00:12:40,110 --> 00:12:44,430
I mean, I would keep looking at him and I
kept thinking any minute he was just gonna

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00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:46,770
sort of get up and say, yeah, fool you.

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00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:49,495
Like, 'cause he did have
a wicked sense of humor.

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00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:51,660
And loved to play tricks.

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00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:56,670
And so I think over those ensuing
days, just seeing how he was, I

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00:12:56,670 --> 00:13:01,740
slowly came to accept that yes, he
was definitely not surviving this.

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00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,750
And if he wasn't going to survive,
then maybe the best thing that we could

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00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:09,030
do is to give life to someone else.

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00:13:09,510 --> 00:13:13,710
And the medical staff were amazing
in terms of their treatment of him.

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00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:18,450
And I remember at one stage
a nurse came in to check.

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00:13:19,185 --> 00:13:23,594
One of the lines that was going into
his hand, and she pulled off the bandaid

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00:13:23,625 --> 00:13:27,765
a bit firmly and she rubbed his hand
and she said, oh, I'm so sorry Dan.

223
00:13:27,824 --> 00:13:29,834
Like treating him very respectfully.

224
00:13:29,864 --> 00:13:34,125
And the other thing that I didn't
know is that when people go to theater

225
00:13:34,185 --> 00:13:37,905
to have their organs retrieved that
they give them a full anesthetic.

226
00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:39,405
And I hadn't realized that.

227
00:13:39,405 --> 00:13:43,125
And when I asked why, given that, you
know, there was no brain activity,

228
00:13:43,155 --> 00:13:45,849
they said, well, they treat people
just as they would if they were.

229
00:13:46,574 --> 00:13:52,035
Going in for any medical procedure, it's
the same sort of treatment in terms of an

230
00:13:52,035 --> 00:13:56,505
anesthetic, and I suppose it also means
that the person doesn't move in any way.

231
00:13:56,505 --> 00:14:01,155
But I was quite impressed with
how sensitively it was handled.

232
00:14:01,515 --> 00:14:05,505
So over the course of the day, from the
Saturday through to the following midweek

233
00:14:05,535 --> 00:14:09,615
when he went off to theater, we had
lots of opportunity to spend time with

234
00:14:09,615 --> 00:14:15,645
him, sit with him, talk about him, talk
to him, play his favorite scar music.

235
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,950
Look, I sort of remember
almost every day really.

236
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:25,590
And each year at the anniversary of
when he fell and it was like a week then

237
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:31,140
from when he fell to when he is, when
he went to theater, almost a week each

238
00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:35,130
year, it's, I find it quite an incredible
that I go through the same sort of.

239
00:14:35,715 --> 00:14:39,765
Visceral reliving of it takes
me by surprise each year.

240
00:14:40,095 --> 00:14:44,235
And given that it was so close to
his birthday too, that must also

241
00:14:44,445 --> 00:14:46,755
perhaps compound that experience.

242
00:14:47,055 --> 00:14:48,225
Yes, it does.

243
00:14:48,705 --> 00:14:52,515
Each year we, I mean, we all
remember the day he died, but we

244
00:14:52,515 --> 00:14:54,795
all celebrate and started the band.

245
00:14:54,795 --> 00:14:57,225
Actually, they all celebrate his birthday.

246
00:14:57,645 --> 00:15:00,555
You know, we get together as
a family, we go out to dinner.

247
00:15:00,615 --> 00:15:03,045
We remember him talk about him.

248
00:15:03,225 --> 00:15:04,396
I mean, we talk about him often, often.

249
00:15:05,115 --> 00:15:11,025
And do you think that that period of
time that you refer to from when you knew

250
00:15:11,025 --> 00:15:17,745
that he was brain dead to the time in
which he was operated on for the donation

251
00:15:17,745 --> 00:15:24,555
process, do you think that ability to
sit with him and spend time with him has

252
00:15:24,555 --> 00:15:27,165
helped the family through this process?

253
00:15:27,855 --> 00:15:28,575
Oh yes.

254
00:15:28,935 --> 00:15:29,685
I think so.

255
00:15:29,805 --> 00:15:30,165
Yeah.

256
00:15:30,525 --> 00:15:30,765
I mean.

257
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,610
It's not easy losing a child,
but you know, it's happening

258
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:37,199
to people all the time.

259
00:15:37,530 --> 00:15:41,550
And I, in many ways, I feel grateful
that we had nearly 48 years with him.

260
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,010
People lose children at a very young age.

261
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,500
People lose children
before they're even born.

262
00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:48,360
Look at Dan's funeral.

263
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,290
I had quite a few family members and
extended family members talk to me

264
00:15:52,290 --> 00:15:54,569
about the still birth that they'd had.

265
00:15:54,569 --> 00:15:58,350
And, you know, losing infants
from cancer at a very young age.

266
00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:00,330
And you sort of think, well.

267
00:16:00,719 --> 00:16:01,979
None of us are immune to it.

268
00:16:01,979 --> 00:16:05,189
None of us are protected
from grief, from loss.

269
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:06,240
It's part of life.

270
00:16:06,599 --> 00:16:09,420
You can't have life without death and
you can't have death without life.

271
00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:11,010
That is very true.

272
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:17,819
And as Dan was the eldest of
the four, how have you seen this

273
00:16:17,819 --> 00:16:21,030
experience impact his siblings?

274
00:16:21,270 --> 00:16:24,990
I think what it has done for all
of us is an appreciation of life,

275
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:28,140
and that life is so short and.

276
00:16:28,530 --> 00:16:31,920
If you don't pay attention to the
here and now and live in the moment

277
00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:36,210
and live your life in a way that's
meaningful for you and meaningful

278
00:16:36,210 --> 00:16:38,460
for others, then what's the point?

279
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:42,180
So I think for us, it's made
us appreciate what we have.

280
00:16:42,450 --> 00:16:47,100
Like we miss him every day and wish
that he was, you know, still alive,

281
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,970
you know, to see his niece and
nephew grow up, which he just adored.

282
00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:54,600
He never had children of his own,
but he loved kids and he would

283
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,225
love to see them growing into the
young teenagers that they are.

284
00:16:57,990 --> 00:17:02,040
So I think they've all dealt
with his death in different ways.

285
00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:05,099
'cause their relationship with him varied.

286
00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:10,200
I mean, my youngest talked about at,
he didn't speak at Dan's funeral,

287
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,060
somebody read it out on his behalf.

288
00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:16,379
But he said if ever he was having any
issues in his love life, Dan would

289
00:17:16,379 --> 00:17:17,940
be the one that he'd go to talk to.

290
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,315
He's like a big brother that
would give him some wise advice.

291
00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:27,480
It's so true what you were saying is that
it is so dependent on the relationship

292
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,640
that you actually have while they're alive
because that will continue when they die.

293
00:17:32,670 --> 00:17:33,750
That doesn't change.

294
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:33,810
Yeah.

295
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:33,990
Does it?

296
00:17:34,635 --> 00:17:35,775
No, it doesn't.

297
00:17:36,045 --> 00:17:36,945
It doesn't change.

298
00:17:37,395 --> 00:17:39,855
And you mentioned the word legacy.

299
00:17:40,215 --> 00:17:47,175
Not many people can create music or leave
a legacy where their music can be listened

300
00:17:47,175 --> 00:17:52,095
to, and Dan was part of a band and he
recorded music and it can be listened to.

301
00:17:52,605 --> 00:17:56,865
How does that feel that there's,
that's the legacy that's left behind?

302
00:17:57,255 --> 00:18:00,915
Well, I find it very comforting,
very reassuring for a long

303
00:18:00,915 --> 00:18:02,540
time after he died and.

304
00:18:03,645 --> 00:18:04,905
I had trouble sleeping.

305
00:18:05,715 --> 00:18:11,805
I would often play YouTube videos of
the band and watch him in his heyday

306
00:18:11,805 --> 00:18:16,875
and his element, and I found it very
comforting, actually very comforting.

307
00:18:17,355 --> 00:18:19,545
I still love scar music even today.

308
00:18:19,575 --> 00:18:20,025
And.

309
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:25,500
I have on my Spotify playlist,
I have all his favorite songs

310
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:26,880
that I will often listen to.

311
00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:31,800
The band that he played with Area seven,
they remember him in so many ways.

312
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,010
Like his photo is still up
there on their Facebook page.

313
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,040
There are many music festivals
that have been held where

314
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,960
they dedicate a stage to him.

315
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:44,070
About a year or year, about 18
months or so after he died, they,

316
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,700
and once COVID had lifted, of
course they had a fundraising gig.

317
00:18:48,315 --> 00:18:52,215
At the Corner Hotel in Richmond,
and uh, we as a family decided to

318
00:18:52,215 --> 00:18:56,175
auction his gum and his drum kit and
the proceeds went to Support Act,

319
00:18:56,775 --> 00:18:58,905
which is a, a charity that supports.

320
00:18:59,324 --> 00:19:01,695
Anyone involved in the music
industry who's either going

321
00:19:01,695 --> 00:19:03,435
through illness or a hard time.

322
00:19:03,645 --> 00:19:08,054
And so the proceeds of the night from
that event and also the proceeds from the

323
00:19:08,054 --> 00:19:10,754
selling bees drum kit went to support act.

324
00:19:10,754 --> 00:19:16,064
So, and there were so many musicians
from lots of different bands, you

325
00:19:16,064 --> 00:19:21,044
know, the Living End, you name it, who
came and wanted to get up on stage and

326
00:19:21,044 --> 00:19:23,024
perform that night in memory of Dan.

327
00:19:23,415 --> 00:19:24,314
It was a great night.

328
00:19:24,314 --> 00:19:26,590
So yeah, he lives on lots of ways.

329
00:19:27,615 --> 00:19:32,715
Well, I think I let you know that, that
I'm a child of the nineties, Adele, so

330
00:19:33,255 --> 00:19:38,325
I remember Dan's music in Area seven
and it is a time capsule 'cause it,

331
00:19:38,595 --> 00:19:43,095
they were very big when, you know,
you could only hear music and local

332
00:19:43,095 --> 00:19:48,675
music on Triple J or through, hey,
hey, at Saturday and Molly Meldrum.

333
00:19:48,895 --> 00:19:54,415
On the show, you know, introducing new
bands and on rage or, or smash hits,

334
00:19:54,415 --> 00:19:59,875
it's, it's not, certainly not like with
the flood of platforms and, and ways

335
00:19:59,875 --> 00:20:01,975
in which we can access new music now.

336
00:20:02,275 --> 00:20:07,645
So it really is also a reference to
a time capsule and period that is

337
00:20:07,645 --> 00:20:09,775
certainly due to my heart as well.

338
00:20:09,985 --> 00:20:10,740
Yes, you're right.

339
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,165
It, it was a different era in terms of how
music was listened to and, and recorded.

340
00:20:16,844 --> 00:20:20,564
And, and the band were also
invited to go to East Timor by the

341
00:20:20,564 --> 00:20:23,445
soldiers who were on tour there.

342
00:20:23,445 --> 00:20:27,165
And that was a very momentous
time for all of the band members.

343
00:20:27,735 --> 00:20:33,135
And I'm sure that must be challenging
to honor that legacy when one

344
00:20:33,135 --> 00:20:36,824
of the members is no longer
with the group due to to death.

345
00:20:37,425 --> 00:20:39,014
You mentioned that you.

346
00:20:39,419 --> 00:20:41,820
Get together every anniversary.

347
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,879
Can you tell us a little bit
about what that looks like and,

348
00:20:44,879 --> 00:20:49,679
and how you memorialize Dan
in your sort of everyday life?

349
00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:53,399
Well, the first year we went to one
of his favorite restaurants, Dan was

350
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,800
the vegetarian and loved animals.

351
00:20:55,979 --> 00:20:57,225
Certainly wouldn't eat meat, so.

352
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,320
We went to a Middle Eastern
restaurant that specialized in various

353
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:03,450
vegetarian food, but I can't remember.

354
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:06,300
We've done something
every year and every year.

355
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:09,060
It varies just depending
on how we are feeling.

356
00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:14,700
I think last year we met at one of my
other kids' homes and because it was

357
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:17,580
a little more intimate, and that's
what we find, it's much easier to

358
00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:22,020
talk about him in a more personal
space than it is in a restaurant.

359
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:22,710
So.

360
00:21:23,445 --> 00:21:27,345
Look, we get together and we will
eat the food that he liked, and we'll

361
00:21:27,345 --> 00:21:31,455
play the music that he liked and talk
about him and talk about what's gone

362
00:21:31,455 --> 00:21:35,115
on in people's lives that he would've
loved to have known about and seen.

363
00:21:35,115 --> 00:21:39,585
And recently my daughter turned 50
and I said to her, wouldn't Dan love

364
00:21:39,585 --> 00:21:42,915
to have been alive to give you a
hard time about being middle aged?

365
00:21:43,485 --> 00:21:47,505
So yeah, things like that, we,
it's part of, I suppose, every

366
00:21:47,625 --> 00:21:48,900
family get togethers that we have.

367
00:21:49,649 --> 00:21:54,240
And Adele, you've experienced this as
a mother whose son has been able to

368
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,580
give the gift of donating their organs.

369
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,240
You've also experienced it from
another side as well, haven't you?

370
00:22:01,290 --> 00:22:01,560
Yes.

371
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,179
Well, yeah, it's, I think it's a bit
unusual to be both the, the mother of a

372
00:22:06,179 --> 00:22:10,860
donor and also a family member of somebody
who has needed a heart transplant.

373
00:22:10,860 --> 00:22:11,340
So.

374
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,800
About a year ago, my brother-in-law, he
had been sick for a long time and in and

375
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,730
out of hospital for a long time, was then
told that he needed a heart transplant

376
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:27,030
and he was very ill towards, in the lead
up to his transplant, like really sick.

377
00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:30,150
You know, they told him he probably
only had a couple of more weeks to live.

378
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,815
His heart was failing so badly and he's.

379
00:22:33,764 --> 00:22:38,145
Early sixties, and, and I found that
I was, I suppose the journey for me

380
00:22:38,145 --> 00:22:42,825
as a family member, I was sharing that
with, with so many other family members.

381
00:22:43,095 --> 00:22:45,915
But it was different for me
because there was something

382
00:22:45,915 --> 00:22:47,835
about I needed him to survive.

383
00:22:47,835 --> 00:22:51,495
I needed this new heart in him
to survive and keep on working.

384
00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:55,425
'cause I somehow, in my mind,
thought, well, if Brad survives,

385
00:22:55,425 --> 00:22:58,274
then Dan's recipient will survive.

386
00:22:58,274 --> 00:23:00,825
You know, like, I can't quite explain.

387
00:23:01,455 --> 00:23:04,875
That connection in my mind, but
I was just so willing him to

388
00:23:04,875 --> 00:23:07,395
get well and get through this.

389
00:23:07,395 --> 00:23:11,774
And of course there are so many hurdles
for people who receive a transplant.

390
00:23:11,774 --> 00:23:17,325
It's not just a case of getting a new
organ and you know they're right in a week

391
00:23:17,325 --> 00:23:19,186
or two because usually their bodies are.

392
00:23:20,175 --> 00:23:24,045
Have started to shut down because
major organs are starting to fail.

393
00:23:24,405 --> 00:23:30,255
So it takes a long time for the body to
get used to new blood supply, new organ.

394
00:23:30,285 --> 00:23:32,595
And there's lots of hurdles.

395
00:23:32,595 --> 00:23:36,405
Like I know Brad had to go on
dialysis for a while just until his

396
00:23:36,405 --> 00:23:40,365
kidneys sort of caught up, but now a
year later, like he's back at work.

397
00:23:40,905 --> 00:23:44,775
He's going to the football tomorrow
night with my husband, like he is really,

398
00:23:44,775 --> 00:23:49,725
well, it's been an absolute miracle and
so it gave me a new appreciation for

399
00:23:50,025 --> 00:23:55,035
the struggle that Dan's heart recipient
and maybe his kidney donors as well.

400
00:23:55,035 --> 00:23:58,455
I dunno, I've only had contact
with his heart recipient.

401
00:23:59,175 --> 00:24:03,705
It just made me realize what a
struggle it is to get from the

402
00:24:03,705 --> 00:24:07,815
time of the, the surgery to being
really well and, and being able

403
00:24:07,815 --> 00:24:09,290
to get back into one's life again.

404
00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:14,640
It's such a U unique perspective
that you have really, isn't it?

405
00:24:15,450 --> 00:24:16,260
Yeah.

406
00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:16,920
Yeah.

407
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:21,270
I must say it's been extremely
comforting for me and for all the

408
00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:25,920
family to have received the letters
that I have from Dan's heart recipient.

409
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,830
So I couldn't even bear to write to
her until a good year or so afterwards,

410
00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:35,850
and I had to, 'cause I was really
worried that she hadn't survived and

411
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:38,130
I think something in me would've died.

412
00:24:38,685 --> 00:24:41,084
Again, if that had been the news.

413
00:24:41,084 --> 00:24:46,334
So I reached out to donate Life and
they encouraged me to write to her.

414
00:24:46,334 --> 00:24:49,905
So I write anonymously to donate life.

415
00:24:49,965 --> 00:24:53,415
They write to the or they send the
letter on to the transplant team

416
00:24:53,415 --> 00:24:55,304
who then give it to the recipient.

417
00:24:55,304 --> 00:24:58,905
So there's lots of checks and
balances to make sure that everybody

418
00:24:58,905 --> 00:25:01,814
remains confidential and anonymous.

419
00:25:02,024 --> 00:25:05,774
But her letters have been
amazingly comforting.

420
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,530
To hear and to read about, you know, the
new lease of life that it has given her,

421
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,820
how grateful she is, the things in her
life that she's been able to get back

422
00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:17,220
into seeing her first grandchild born.

423
00:25:17,820 --> 00:25:19,560
You know, it's pretty amazing.

424
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,850
I think sometimes we can take it
quite lightly when you say organ

425
00:25:23,850 --> 00:25:28,110
donation and you know, giving some
back, someone back their life.

426
00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:33,630
But when you actually say things
like seeing her grandchild grow up.

427
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:34,560
Yes.

428
00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:38,400
That is very much a different
context when you actually say that

429
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,090
this is not just a statistic, this
is the difference that it makes to

430
00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:43,860
someone's life and what they can see.

431
00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:44,310
Yeah.

432
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:44,430
Yes.

433
00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:45,840
Well, and the same with Brad.

434
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,380
I can just see what a
difference it's made to him.

435
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:51,541
I mean, he is fit and well, and.

436
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:54,510
Active and still bar for Collingwood.

437
00:25:54,510 --> 00:25:56,970
Mind you, he hasn't changed there.

438
00:25:57,750 --> 00:26:02,790
But to see him go from being so sick
to so well, it really is incredible.

439
00:26:03,150 --> 00:26:03,840
Really is.

440
00:26:04,290 --> 00:26:05,520
It's an absolute miracle.

441
00:26:06,210 --> 00:26:10,380
And what would you say to other
families who may have a loved one

442
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:14,880
who has had an accident and they face
the same decision making process?

443
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,080
What would you say to them?

444
00:26:16,514 --> 00:26:18,135
I'd certainly say considerate.

445
00:26:18,435 --> 00:26:22,395
I mean, I suppose every family
situation is unique and their

446
00:26:22,395 --> 00:26:24,735
feelings about it would vary.

447
00:26:25,335 --> 00:26:29,055
I think there's a lot of maybe
myths about organ donation.

448
00:26:29,055 --> 00:26:35,565
Like there is somebody in my own family,
extended family who said that they

449
00:26:35,565 --> 00:26:39,195
would find it hard to tick the box
for organ donation because they were

450
00:26:39,195 --> 00:26:40,725
worried that they mightn't be dead.

451
00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:45,480
And so I think that, you know,
the percentage of people who

452
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,110
can actually donate or in a
position to donate is quite small.

453
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:50,850
I think it's only like one or 2%.

454
00:26:51,570 --> 00:26:55,950
So you basically need to be in
hospital on life support to be

455
00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:58,500
eligible to donate an organ.

456
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:05,310
And so it's not that they go out there
taking organs from people who are still

457
00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:07,110
alive and there's, you know, like.

458
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,180
Dan had to have a brain scan
that had to be checked off by two

459
00:27:12,180 --> 00:27:18,090
different doctors, and so that all
has to happen prior to the surgery.

460
00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:22,020
So there's, there's lots of steps
along the way, but I would say for

461
00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:25,920
anyone who's considering it, talk to
the hospital staff, talk to somebody

462
00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:32,280
from the Donate Life team, and just
make your decision based on what you

463
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,780
think your loved one would've wanted.

464
00:27:34,215 --> 00:27:37,815
It was quite easy for us when we
focused on what Dan would've wanted.

465
00:27:38,415 --> 00:27:44,055
Has the experience changed how
your wishes are documented now?

466
00:27:44,055 --> 00:27:47,595
Has have people changed within
the family to become donors?

467
00:27:47,865 --> 00:27:52,095
How has that experience changed
how you planned for end of life?

468
00:27:52,095 --> 00:27:53,295
Has it changed you?

469
00:27:53,295 --> 00:27:53,895
I don't know.

470
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,230
Oh, yes.

471
00:27:55,230 --> 00:27:55,920
Yeah, definitely.

472
00:27:56,010 --> 00:27:57,690
Yeah, I, I certainly ticked the box.

473
00:27:58,290 --> 00:28:00,240
Well, I had done even before Dan died.

474
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,700
But yeah, the others all have it as well.

475
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:06,630
And, and also again, it's also
around thinking about end of

476
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:08,160
life and things such as the will.

477
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,300
He didn't have a will, and
that makes life a bit harder.

478
00:28:13,290 --> 00:28:17,370
The loved ones afterwards
sorting out matters, and

479
00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:19,110
because his father and I were.

480
00:28:19,635 --> 00:28:22,395
He's next to kin and his
father wasn't very well.

481
00:28:22,395 --> 00:28:24,075
So a lot of that fell to me.

482
00:28:24,075 --> 00:28:27,825
And it, it's difficult at a time
where you're grieving, you know,

483
00:28:27,885 --> 00:28:32,925
going in and closing bank accounts
and closing Netflix accounts and, you

484
00:28:32,925 --> 00:28:34,215
know, all of those sort of things.

485
00:28:34,215 --> 00:28:38,625
There's so many things that just are
a reminder that they've died that are,

486
00:28:39,495 --> 00:28:44,445
it's like a, a stab in your heart every
single time, but it has to be done.

487
00:28:45,165 --> 00:28:49,245
What would you suggest to people
that they should do to perhaps, you

488
00:28:49,245 --> 00:28:51,225
know, is it have a conversation?

489
00:28:51,225 --> 00:28:52,995
Is it making sure they're a donor?

490
00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:57,375
What do you think may have made
things easier for you in the

491
00:28:57,375 --> 00:28:59,595
situation you found yourself in?

492
00:28:59,595 --> 00:29:05,715
Because I think that sometimes when
we have a life limiting illness and a

493
00:29:05,715 --> 00:29:10,905
diagnosis, there is some sort of timeframe
and there's more of a framework around it.

494
00:29:10,905 --> 00:29:13,935
But when it's an accident,
it's very, very different.

495
00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:15,600
It is very different.

496
00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:19,500
Well, I think people should actually
talk about it, have conversations

497
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,740
with people, and I do think
a lot of people find it hard.

498
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,150
I mean, it is very hard to think about
our own non-existence, but I think the

499
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:32,130
biggest favor that you can do for your
loved ones is to be prepared, have a

500
00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:36,930
will let people know what's in the will
so that there's no surprises at the end.

501
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,530
Particularly like for us, we've got
a blended family, so they all know

502
00:29:40,530 --> 00:29:42,030
that they're gonna be treated equally.

503
00:29:42,705 --> 00:29:46,935
And you know, my kids know exactly,
you know, like I want a quarter

504
00:29:46,935 --> 00:29:48,915
of my ashes buried with Dan.

505
00:29:49,335 --> 00:29:50,055
They know that.

506
00:29:50,175 --> 00:29:54,405
So yeah, I still, I just think have
the conversation as hard as it is.

507
00:29:54,825 --> 00:30:02,055
And how has Dan's donations
framed your view on legacy now?

508
00:30:02,595 --> 00:30:06,285
I suppose I'm surprised that,
you know, we don't do it more, we

509
00:30:06,285 --> 00:30:08,265
don't consider it more, we don't.

510
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,820
I suppose you're not really
forced to until you're put in the

511
00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:15,690
situation, but his legacy, I think,
has helped us all to, you know,

512
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,430
appreciate the life that we give him.

513
00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:19,920
And as far as we know,
we only get one go at it.

514
00:30:20,220 --> 00:30:23,580
So yeah, just make the most of
the life that you give him, live

515
00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:27,360
it in the best way that you can
with as much integrity as you can.

516
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:28,230
You know, be kind.

517
00:30:29,055 --> 00:30:30,015
Care for others.

518
00:30:30,105 --> 00:30:31,035
'cause you never know.

519
00:30:31,095 --> 00:30:34,845
I mean, we know the day of our
birth, but unless you are maybe

520
00:30:34,845 --> 00:30:38,655
going through voluntary euthanasia,
nobody knows the day of their death.

521
00:30:39,015 --> 00:30:40,125
You dunno when it's coming.

522
00:30:40,125 --> 00:30:44,745
So make the most of life, and
my husband and I have a bit

523
00:30:44,745 --> 00:30:45,975
of a saying to each other.

524
00:30:46,605 --> 00:30:47,835
If not now, when

525
00:30:48,525 --> 00:30:49,245
I really like that.

526
00:30:49,245 --> 00:30:49,725
If there's something

527
00:30:49,725 --> 00:30:51,795
you wanna do, do it now.

528
00:30:52,125 --> 00:30:54,170
You know, because you don't know.

529
00:30:55,199 --> 00:30:56,399
That's beautiful, Adele.

530
00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:57,360
There is one.

531
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,439
One other thing I would like to say
about grief that I read somewhere

532
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:06,060
that I think is very true, that
your grief doesn't diminish.

533
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,899
It doesn't listen over time,
particularly with the loss of a child.

534
00:31:10,649 --> 00:31:12,840
But what happens is
that you grow around it.

535
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:17,639
You learn to go on and you live
your life without that person, but

536
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:20,070
still with their memory with you.

537
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:22,770
But you in a sense become.

538
00:31:23,205 --> 00:31:25,665
More of who you have the potential to be.

539
00:31:25,665 --> 00:31:29,985
I suppose you, you just, yeah, I suppose
that's the best way to describe it.

540
00:31:30,045 --> 00:31:31,065
You grow around it.

541
00:31:31,485 --> 00:31:35,565
You become more, to enable you
to go on with your life, despite

542
00:31:36,045 --> 00:31:37,905
enduring, unimaginable loss.

543
00:31:38,565 --> 00:31:43,605
Do you think it's because you are
stripped back to the bare essentials

544
00:31:43,665 --> 00:31:45,315
during that time of vulnerability?

545
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:51,780
I think so the most raw, like for the
first 12 months, I, many times I thought

546
00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:56,250
I was, you know, losing my mind or I was,
you know, like my grief was just so raw.

547
00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:59,970
I couldn't talk about Dan
without bursting into tears.

548
00:32:00,270 --> 00:32:05,040
And of course a lot of people reach
out and I found it really hard to be

549
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,780
telling the story over and over again.

550
00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:11,940
And so it was just easier for a while
to be with those who had been part of

551
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:13,950
the journey, like family members and.

552
00:32:14,550 --> 00:32:17,190
Really close friends
because it's just hard.

553
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:18,540
It's just hard getting through it.

554
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:19,410
Okay?

555
00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:22,470
And there's that small moment
when you wake up in the morning.

556
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:26,790
A lot of people talk about it where
just for a moment you've forgotten.

557
00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:30,600
It's not there front
and center of your mind.

558
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:33,000
And then of course it
all comes flooding back.

559
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:38,700
But for that nanosecond, the loss and,
and the pain that you're going through

560
00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:41,370
is not there, even just for a small.

561
00:32:42,165 --> 00:32:47,504
Fleeting moment, but I don't know, it just
becomes, you just find a way to survive

562
00:32:47,504 --> 00:32:49,605
it and to manage it and to live with it.

563
00:32:50,024 --> 00:32:51,645
You have to if you want to live your life.

564
00:32:51,885 --> 00:32:58,215
And did you receive any support
around that process after Dan's death?

565
00:32:58,905 --> 00:32:59,294
Yeah.

566
00:32:59,294 --> 00:33:01,965
The people from Donate
Life were fantastic.

567
00:33:01,965 --> 00:33:07,034
So I had a couple of conversations
with people throughout that time with

568
00:33:07,455 --> 00:33:09,735
lots of close friends, the family.

569
00:33:10,379 --> 00:33:15,899
My husband, he was a great support that I,
I just said to him last night how much I

570
00:33:15,899 --> 00:33:19,590
appreciated the fact that he came with me.

571
00:33:19,770 --> 00:33:23,550
I wanted to see Dan after he'd
come back from theater after

572
00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:25,350
they had retrieved his organs.

573
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:30,389
It was, I don't know, because
when he was wheeled away, he

574
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:31,560
was still on a ventilator.

575
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,300
He still looked very much alive.

576
00:33:33,705 --> 00:33:38,445
And I think for myself, I just needed
to fully accept that he was dead.

577
00:33:38,445 --> 00:33:44,295
I needed to see him after, and the
hospital were very sensitive around

578
00:33:44,295 --> 00:33:46,245
preparing me for how he would look.

579
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:50,970
They allowed us to sit with him
for as long as we needed to.

580
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,260
They also informed us that because
he died in a public place, he fell

581
00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:59,700
in public, you know, on a footpath,
that the police would be coming to

582
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:03,060
collect his body and to be taken to the
coroner's court, which is the process

583
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:05,939
that happens if somebody dies in public.

584
00:34:06,179 --> 00:34:09,569
But they allowed us that time,
and that was important for me.

585
00:34:09,569 --> 00:34:16,020
So I suppose that would be the other thing
is to ask for what you need if you are.

586
00:34:16,395 --> 00:34:20,385
In this situation, ask for
what you need to sit with a

587
00:34:20,385 --> 00:34:21,885
person for as long as you need.

588
00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:26,865
And if you need to be there through
the various stages, just ask.

589
00:34:27,585 --> 00:34:31,455
And I say that that would be
the same principle when you are

590
00:34:31,455 --> 00:34:34,815
sort of, you're talking through
that, that very dark period.

591
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,770
In that time afterwards where, you
know, you were saying that your

592
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,550
network got smaller 'cause it was
easier just to, you didn't wanna

593
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:47,070
keep telling the story over and over.

594
00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:50,160
Yes, and I felt like a bit of a recluse.

595
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,210
I didn't really feel like going
out and talking to people anyway.

596
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:58,290
So it was just easy to be with people
who were part of the journey and were

597
00:34:58,290 --> 00:35:00,720
experiencing the pain and loss as well.

598
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,740
And speaking from someone
who is in that space.

599
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,000
How can people around you who are
not in that inner circle, but perhaps

600
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,560
just a circle removed, how can they
support you during something like that?

601
00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:14,580
Just listen.

602
00:35:14,730 --> 00:35:15,480
Just be there.

603
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:16,470
Make a meal.

604
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:20,070
The last thing you feel like doing
is well, and I love to cook, but

605
00:35:20,070 --> 00:35:23,820
the last thing I felt like doing was
thinking about what to have for dinner.

606
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:27,450
And not that I felt like I didn't have
much appetite anyway, but you just

607
00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:31,620
need people to listen and you certainly
don't need people changing the subject

608
00:35:32,190 --> 00:35:33,745
or trying to make you feel better.

609
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:38,700
Whatever form that might take, because
nothing is gonna take away the pain.

610
00:35:39,029 --> 00:35:41,850
You just need to be able to talk about
them, if that's what you want to do.

611
00:35:42,569 --> 00:35:46,109
And it's much easier for somebody
to say to you, look, I can't imagine

612
00:35:46,109 --> 00:35:49,109
what it is that you are feeling at
the moment, or, I can't imagine what

613
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:51,750
this is like for you, but I'm here.

614
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,375
That's all you need to hear.

615
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:59,940
Adele, I can't thank you enough for
sharing your story with us today, and

616
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,180
I really like those parting words.

617
00:36:03,330 --> 00:36:04,735
I think that's very, very fitting.

618
00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:05,730
Yeah.

619
00:36:05,730 --> 00:36:05,910
Thank you.

620
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:12,660
We hope you enjoyed today's
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621
00:36:12,990 --> 00:36:14,730
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622
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,770
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