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There's people that bring flowers.

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There's people that give money.

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There's people that will buy
somebody something that they need.

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But I feel that at the end
of the day, the materialistic

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kind of stuff doesn't matter.

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It's your presence.

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I feel like somebody can have all the
money in the world, but the love and

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the care and the support that you have
within your community, within your

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family, you can't buy that with money.

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Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead.

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A podcast encouraging open conversations
about dying and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Katherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to life.

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Because while you may not be ready to die.

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At least you can be prepared.

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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations

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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.

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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging, and extend

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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First

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Nation peoples around the globe.

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Today, I'm talking with Kanisha Wines.

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Kinesha works for the Aboriginal
Advancement League located in Thornbury,

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Melbourne, and she also supports the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

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The Victorian Aboriginal Funeral
Service provides community based

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cultural strong funerals and care
for grieving community members.

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It has been doing so since the 1970s.

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Their mortuary is actually located
in Clifton Hill and I really look

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forward to learning more about their
services and having a chat to Kinesha.

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Thanks for being with us today, Kinesha.

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Thank you for having me.

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Now, Kenisha, you work for the
Aboriginal Advancement League, but you've

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also do support as required for the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

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What made you start working
for these organisations?

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What motivated you?

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Oh, I originally started at the Aborigines
Advancement League or the AAL as a

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home and community care support worker.

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So I was hanging out with my elders,
taking them shopping, helping them clean

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their homes, taking them to appointments.

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So My passion and love are my elders in
the community, they're our storytellers,

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they're our matriarchs of knowledge
for all of us little young'uns.

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And then, it just so happened that the
job come available at the Victorian

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Aboriginal Funeral Service and my CEO,
Annie Esmaye, asked if I could go in and

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do it because she Really wanted to kind
of see how I would go in that regard.

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At first it was quite daunting and you
know, trying to keep all of your emotions.

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Cause the one thing about being
in an Aboriginal funeral service

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is you will be burying those that
you do know in the community.

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People that you've hung around when
you were younger, people that you

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see as your aunties and uncles.

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So when you're not working in that space,
you hear of the deaths and you hear of all

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of that type of stuff, but you're never
at the front of it with sitting with the

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families and discussing what's the best.

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And then you get super
anxious about making sure that

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these services are running.

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Very, very smoothly and I will say
I didn't sleep the night before

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a funeral cause I have a little
bit of OCD when it come to it.

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So I would think, did I do this?

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Did I do that?

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Yep.

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Tick, tick.

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Yep.

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That's done.

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Oh my gosh.

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So just making sure that the funeral
was completely organized to the point

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where I was pulling my hair out.

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But at the end of it, it was
all for the right reasons.

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The one thing I tell people is
a funeral isn't like a marriage.

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You can't redo it.

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It's something that is final
and it's something you can't

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redo if something stuffs up.

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So that's why I was so anxious.

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It was, I wanted to make sure it
was perfect, pretty much perfect.

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So.

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I was there for, I think it was at three,
four years, and then my heart took me back

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to my elders, which is where I am now.

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So, but because of my knowledge and
because I was there for so long in that

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space, I do help out when our workers are
on leave, or if they've got too many going

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at once, I'll step in and support them.

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So, Yeah.

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It's something that everybody
needs to kind of support and help.

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And can you describe for me what the
Aboriginal Advancement League does and

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then how does that connect with the
funeral service and why is it important?

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For someone who may not have any
experience or exposure to Aboriginal

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people, why is it significant to you
and the services that you provide?

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Why are they important to the

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community?

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So the Aborigines Advancement League is
what we call the mother organisation.

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She was created in 1957.

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To support Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander people.

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So she has been around for a long time.

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Currently at the moment, we
have a few units that support

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community in all different ways.

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So we have a neighborhood
house, which is called Gurwich.

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They provide support to women.

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She also does youth programs with
children through school holidays.

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That's run through Natasha.

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Then we have family support unit.

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We have two workers in there,
so they support those that are

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struggling with, you know, the
everyday life of, you know, finances.

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They support in gambling, they support
in drug alcohol, they support just

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if you're having a bad week and, you
know, you've had to pay multiple bills.

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They support with that, they have
a food bank, so there's access

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to food constantly here for that.

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They also have referral and links
in with a financial advisor.

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So we have Beautiful Carmel that
also can come in and support

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those that need that too.

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We have our Commonwealth
Home Support Program.

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Which is the CHISP unit.

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So that's supporting elders
staying in their home.

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So they provide home care support,
shopping support, social support, and at

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times transport to and from appointments.

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We also have the maintenance guy
that comes under them as well.

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So they do lawn maintenance
for those that can't do it in

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the community for the elders.

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They also have our HAC PYP, which
is home and community services.

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Community support for younger people.

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So those that are under 50 that do
have disabilities or they've got

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chronic health issues that they
can't do those daily tasks, we can

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also support them too in that unit.

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We have our regional assessment support.

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program.

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So Kalinda, so she would go and assess
the elders prior to them getting the

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services just to see what they're
actually needing or requiring.

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She would do referrals in to other
organizations like FAS, which is

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the Victorian Aboriginal Health
Service that provides all those

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allied health services like OTs,
um, physio, all that type of stuff.

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Then we have a ATAR unit, which
is Aboriginal Tenants at Risk.

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So those that are at risk of losing
their home, it may be they are behind

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in rent or their lawns are too overgrown
and they've got a lending estate

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that it needs to be done or else,
you know, there's their final notice.

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So we also have that program here.

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We've got a new program which is the
eldest care support program, which

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I am the coordinator of currently.

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So they are kind of the middleman
between the regional assessment unit.

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So we support those going through the
my age care and that process, cause

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it's quite difficult for our people.

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So we do also have other
organizations that are stemmed off us.

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So we have Lady Gladys Nichols hostile.

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It's now I hostile for.

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Youth that have got scholarships to
attend schools down here in Victoria,

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and they're from all over Australia.

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They stay at this hostel with a beautiful
couple, Andrew and Cara, and they

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support them through their schooling.

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And then the main one, which is the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

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It's been around for many, many years.

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We've had it since 1995.

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And The biggest thing about the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral

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Service is it's not funded.

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So we purely support our community
through donations, through the

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support of other organizations that
kind of, you know, link in with us.

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We do try to do as much
fundraisers as possible.

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I do remember years and years I would
have been little, but they used to do

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cabarets once a year and they'd hold
it here at the league or they'd hold

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it somewhere at a hall You know, it
was a chance for the community to get

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dolled up and enjoy a night, but it
cost them, you know, 10 bucks entry.

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And then everything else that
the proceeds went to the funeral

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service, there would be raffles
going around the local football,

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Fitzroy Stars, football games for the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

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So I feel like the community was
stronger back then, which made the

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service A little bit easier to navigate.

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Now it's a little bit harder.

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We had to change our name a few times
to get funding through government.

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So at one point it was the Victorian
Aboriginal Social Emotional Wellbeing

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Support Program, like it was, yeah.

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That's the mouthful.

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Yeah it was, and I thought what the,
but we had to do that so we could

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get the littlest funding that was
available under those criteria because

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there was no funding for funerals.

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Yeah, so you obviously had to make
the remit and the name cover as many

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things as possible to, I suppose,
see that you could access as many

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buckets of money as possible.

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Yes.

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Definitely.

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And look, I do say that
it's not free to die.

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It doesn't matter who you are, what
colour you are, where you come from.

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It is not free.

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But with that, nobody should
be buried like a pauper.

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Which is what our mob was happening to.

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There was no family present.

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It was a straight burial, unmarked graves.

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It was a big thing, which is
why the funeral service was

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created in the first place.

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But since it has, we've seen.

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We've stuck it out.

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We've been strong in advocating
for it and like I say, we do what

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we've got to do to get the job done.

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So

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what strikes me, Kinesha, is when
you're speaking and you're explaining

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the Aborigines Advancement League
is just how large it is what you do.

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So you mentioned that you actually
have a regional person that is

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responsible for the regional areas.

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What

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area do you cover?

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So we are Northwest Metro.

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Yeah, right.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So.

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We cover all the way to Whittlesea,
then to the Melbourne CBD, there's

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a line that we cut off there because
then other people can jump on.

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We do have clients out in the West,
which is like Altona, Spotswood.

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There's a few people out that way too.

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So we don't like to kind of put a map
and a line that we can't do this for you.

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If an elder is actually in need and they
can't access services, in their area,

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then we'll definitely try our best to
try and manage to make sure that they

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are getting the support that they need.

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We don't like to tell them that we can't
do it because they're too far away.

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And that's the other thing that,
that when you're talking, you

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know, you're not talking about.

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other colleagues who, you know,
you may have met once or twice, you

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know, passing in the, the kitchen.

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When you're talking about the people
that you work with, your colleagues,

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you're mentioning them by name and
you're talking about your experience

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of when you remember your involvement
with the league from very early on.

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So tell me for you, what
does the league represent?

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Because obviously you've been quite
involved with it all throughout your life.

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Yeah.

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Like I said, the league is
the mother organization.

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It's been here for many, many years,
we've all come through, we've utilised

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it at least at one point in our lives.

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And it's a community based organization.

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We're here for the community.

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And that's what makes me happy
and proud to even be working in

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this old girl, as we would say.

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The other thing too, is I see
that the coworkers here, cause

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I haven't been here for so long.

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And some of them also, uh,
veterans like myself that.

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We're no longer colleagues.

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We are family.

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We support one another through work,
but we also support one another through

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community and through our lives at home.

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And, you know, it's not like that
for everybody because some people

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have different views on how they
come to work and this is work.

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And that's, that's all good.

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That's chill.

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00:12:51,234 --> 00:12:52,595
That's up to you, you know, but.

236
00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:57,060
My dad always says you spend like a third
of your life at work, so you might as

237
00:12:57,060 --> 00:13:00,459
well be happy while you're there because
if you're not, it's time to go because

238
00:13:00,990 --> 00:13:05,770
yeah, you spend so much of your time here
and I'm actually super happy and proud to

239
00:13:05,779 --> 00:13:10,780
be on one, this land and working in this
organization with the people that I do

240
00:13:10,849 --> 00:13:17,000
because I've built long life friendships
with them and, you know, Yeah, we support

241
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,400
one another daily and I think that's
a really good thing for our community.

242
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,909
We know that if they do come through
looking for those services, we're

243
00:13:24,910 --> 00:13:27,569
all on the same page because we all
have the same goal and that's to

244
00:13:27,570 --> 00:13:29,410
support the Aboriginal community.

245
00:13:29,899 --> 00:13:34,149
And tell me, you work directly with
the Elders within the community and you

246
00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:38,190
We're mentioning that you sort of hold
their hand through the process of the My

247
00:13:38,190 --> 00:13:40,930
Aged Care and navigating those services.

248
00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:46,500
What are some of the challenges that
the Elders face in relation to dealing

249
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:50,140
with those sort of organisations
and those sort of procedures?

250
00:13:50,875 --> 00:13:56,205
There's quite a few, actually, because
before I was in this role, myself and

251
00:13:56,245 --> 00:14:01,575
my coworker, my sister girl, Alara,
we were one of the first Aboriginal

252
00:14:01,635 --> 00:14:04,164
regional assessment officers in Victoria.

253
00:14:04,825 --> 00:14:08,774
So we started the whole process
when My Aged Care first came out.

254
00:14:09,294 --> 00:14:13,814
So we were advocating for our people from
day dot all the way through to the end.

255
00:14:14,355 --> 00:14:19,725
And one, our people don't
like to call up a number.

256
00:14:20,594 --> 00:14:24,405
And not know who they're talking to,
to some of them don't have access

257
00:14:24,405 --> 00:14:27,944
to either a phone or the internet,
which is the other way that you can

258
00:14:28,175 --> 00:14:32,114
actually access my age care is getting
online and put you through a referral.

259
00:14:32,224 --> 00:14:35,704
So the barriers were the technology,
the phone and the internet.

260
00:14:36,014 --> 00:14:41,884
Then it was the third of our elders trying
to give some random information and.

261
00:14:42,185 --> 00:14:45,514
You know, quite personal information
to someone they don't even know.

262
00:14:45,904 --> 00:14:47,404
And then the other issue was.

263
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:50,699
When we were doing the actual
assessment, they were questioning,

264
00:14:50,709 --> 00:14:52,410
where is the information going?

265
00:14:52,859 --> 00:14:54,300
Who's going to see this?

266
00:14:54,349 --> 00:14:55,770
So it was all about their privacy.

267
00:14:55,770 --> 00:15:00,049
We, which we had to, you know, inform
them that it's, it is confidential.

268
00:15:00,050 --> 00:15:02,219
Only the certain amount of
people will be able to see it.

269
00:15:02,229 --> 00:15:03,890
And that's if you give permission.

270
00:15:03,939 --> 00:15:09,189
So them even getting onto the service
itself was such a barrier and so

271
00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:13,520
hard for us because the other thing
too, was we weren't getting the

272
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,329
amount of work that we were doing.

273
00:15:15,609 --> 00:15:17,680
We weren't able to put it in for stats.

274
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:24,470
So we were doing a daily three hours or
more of extra work just to support these

275
00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:26,950
Elders, but we couldn't document that.

276
00:15:27,140 --> 00:15:32,449
So at every corner of, you know,
for the statistics, we were always

277
00:15:32,490 --> 00:15:35,309
under what, or under our KPIs.

278
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,250
And we would get questioned constantly,
but the answer to their questioning

279
00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:45,080
was always the same, that we aren't
mainstream, we don't walk into a home with

280
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,640
a laptop and sit there like for half an
hour and ask them, what are your issues?

281
00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:50,939
How do you go to the toilet?

282
00:15:50,939 --> 00:15:52,089
Are you happy to go to the toilet?

283
00:15:52,090 --> 00:15:55,049
Can you, do you know you go to the toilet
straight up before you even know this?

284
00:15:55,250 --> 00:15:56,620
It's Paul Alder.

285
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,430
We never went in with a laptop.

286
00:15:58,459 --> 00:16:00,000
We went in with a piece of paper.

287
00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,859
The connection was the auntie or
uncle would ask, who's your ma?

288
00:16:04,119 --> 00:16:07,869
And that's an automatic connection
on, they can build for themselves on

289
00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:09,539
where we belong, where we come from.

290
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,759
So I'm a proud Wamba Wamba
Ngāiri Ngāiri girl, so I'm from

291
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:15,029
Swan Hill and Barrow Arnold.

292
00:16:15,605 --> 00:16:18,825
So I would say, Oh yeah, I'm
Wemba uncle, I'm Wemba aunt.

293
00:16:18,855 --> 00:16:22,245
And then she'll say, do you know
this person and this person?

294
00:16:22,245 --> 00:16:24,995
I'm like, yeah, that's my auntie,
that's my uncle or whatever.

295
00:16:24,995 --> 00:16:27,795
And then that straight away
built that connection and that

296
00:16:27,795 --> 00:16:29,684
relationship just by them knowing who.

297
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:31,370
or where I come from.

298
00:16:31,589 --> 00:16:36,040
So then asking those questions become
easier because they already felt a

299
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,310
sense of connection and comfort knowing
that one, I am Aboriginal and two

300
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:43,530
that they knew who my family were.

301
00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:45,879
So that's what makes us different.

302
00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:50,710
And that's why Aboriginal people come
to Aboriginal organisations because

303
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:54,730
they get that cultural connection on
an instance of walking through the

304
00:16:54,730 --> 00:16:57,460
door or seeing in our museum here that.

305
00:16:57,580 --> 00:17:00,330
You know, well, that was
my nan, that's my auntie.

306
00:17:00,330 --> 00:17:03,500
And they sit, stand proud and
see that they've got family

307
00:17:03,510 --> 00:17:04,829
all over the walls here.

308
00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:10,970
And I suppose for some of these Elders,
this would be something that has taken

309
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:16,060
a long time for them to be able to see
is an organisation that is reflecting

310
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:23,600
who they are, as opposed to more of a
white European, perhaps, organisation.

311
00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:24,860
Yeah, they're not a stat.

312
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:32,200
They are a valued community member and
look at the end of the day for any type

313
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:34,380
of funding you need to have your stats up.

314
00:17:34,550 --> 00:17:35,260
It's simple.

315
00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:39,989
It's plain and simple, but we just
try to encourage and ensure that

316
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,919
every service we do provide comes
with that cultural appropriateness.

317
00:17:44,084 --> 00:17:48,915
And when you're talking about identifying
as which particular country that you're

318
00:17:48,915 --> 00:17:55,854
from, does that tie into the view of and
the structure of how you view kinship is

319
00:17:55,854 --> 00:18:01,764
very, very different to perhaps what a
conventional way of viewing siblings is?

320
00:18:02,104 --> 00:18:03,225
Yeah, definitely.

321
00:18:03,395 --> 00:18:06,854
So when we state where we're
from or where we are from, our

322
00:18:06,854 --> 00:18:10,794
mobs, that's giving everybody
knowledge on where our country is.

323
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:16,190
So usually I wouldn't have to
state where my country is by

324
00:18:16,190 --> 00:18:19,980
saying Wambaa, they automatically
know that that's in Swan Hill.

325
00:18:20,050 --> 00:18:23,440
But the other thing in regards
to kinship is we are a little

326
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,990
bit different because we're very
family and community orientated.

327
00:18:28,059 --> 00:18:30,670
My sister's kids are my kids.

328
00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:34,120
They're my nephews and my
nieces, but they are my babies.

329
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,730
I treat them as my own.

330
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,900
They can come to me
and my house is theirs.

331
00:18:39,355 --> 00:18:43,625
But also tell them also like they're my
own, so, you know, and vice versa, my

332
00:18:43,625 --> 00:18:47,715
children are my sisters, but I don't know
if you've heard this, but without kinship

333
00:18:47,755 --> 00:18:51,665
too, and a lot of people would think it
was weird or they don't understand it.

334
00:18:51,665 --> 00:18:55,844
But if I'm asking my children
to do something, I'll say, mum,

335
00:18:55,994 --> 00:18:57,325
can you go and grab that for me?

336
00:18:57,705 --> 00:19:00,105
I am their mum, but I'm calling them mum.

337
00:19:00,125 --> 00:19:02,995
So they know to go and get this
with my nephews and nieces.

338
00:19:03,025 --> 00:19:04,825
Aunty, can you go and grab this for me?

339
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,670
Which a lot of people are like,
wait, they're not your auntie.

340
00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:08,330
And I'm like, no, no, no.

341
00:19:08,370 --> 00:19:11,490
I'm their auntie, but that's
my way of telling them.

342
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:13,230
Can you do this for me or baby?

343
00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:15,160
Like, this is, this is how it is.

344
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:20,769
So as weird as it is, I think it's just
natural that we do have that kinship of

345
00:19:21,459 --> 00:19:24,990
whoever's babies are around, they're ours.

346
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:27,700
Like we don't just stand
at a community event.

347
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:29,500
If there's kids running around,
they're doing the wrong thing.

348
00:19:29,659 --> 00:19:30,840
Hey, bub, what are you doing?

349
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:32,790
Oh, sorry, auntie.

350
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,740
Like they don't know me, but
they know I'm an older woman.

351
00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:39,490
Then they're going to call
me auntie out of respect.

352
00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:44,050
So we look after each other's as
if they were our own, which is

353
00:19:44,050 --> 00:19:47,550
what brings us closer and which
makes us a stronger community.

354
00:19:48,195 --> 00:19:53,075
And just on that, the use of
auntie and uncle in reference to

355
00:19:53,135 --> 00:19:56,195
elders, that's also out of respect.

356
00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:56,904
Definitely.

357
00:19:56,905 --> 00:19:57,965
That's respect, yeah.

358
00:19:58,185 --> 00:20:03,004
I remember one time I called
someone by their name and, because

359
00:20:03,014 --> 00:20:05,624
I was just in conversation and I
said, blah, blah, blah, and then

360
00:20:05,624 --> 00:20:07,625
he looked at me and he went, What?

361
00:20:07,795 --> 00:20:09,675
And I said, Hey, I'm so sorry, uncle.

362
00:20:09,985 --> 00:20:13,345
Oh, well, buddy goes, I'll clip you in the
side of the ear if you do that ever again.

363
00:20:13,345 --> 00:20:17,695
Like it's, um, it's funny, but
yes, it's out of respect that

364
00:20:17,725 --> 00:20:19,285
you call them auntie uncle.

365
00:20:19,875 --> 00:20:23,135
The older, older ones, if you're close
enough, you call them man and pop.

366
00:20:23,304 --> 00:20:24,984
Like I had aunties that were.

367
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:30,300
In their 60s and 70s, they were my
Nan and Pop's age, and we were that

368
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,380
close that they weren't my Aunty and
my Uncle, they were my Nan and my Pop.

369
00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:34,960
Yeah, that's lovely.

370
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:35,930
That's a, a

371
00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:41,450
real closeness that you have just
even using those terms, that it's an

372
00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:46,899
endearing, caring kind of way in which
you look out and refer to community.

373
00:20:46,899 --> 00:20:48,550
I find that really quite beautiful.

374
00:20:48,835 --> 00:20:49,135
Yeah.

375
00:20:49,145 --> 00:20:49,625
Thank you.

376
00:20:50,175 --> 00:20:56,385
And tell me, with this identification of
being connected to a particular country

377
00:20:56,665 --> 00:21:02,345
and with bearing in mind the respect that
you show to Elders and really in turn

378
00:21:02,354 --> 00:21:07,045
to, to everyone within the community,
that must then provide the reason

379
00:21:07,045 --> 00:21:10,725
why the foundation of the Aboriginal
Funeral Service is so important.

380
00:21:10,725 --> 00:21:11,104
Definitely.

381
00:21:11,105 --> 00:21:11,935
Definitely.

382
00:21:11,995 --> 00:21:13,285
With the funeral service.

383
00:21:13,895 --> 00:21:18,305
Going home to country for our
mob is vital to our people.

384
00:21:18,765 --> 00:21:22,754
I'm not going to say that it happens all
the time because sometimes, you know,

385
00:21:23,105 --> 00:21:27,274
there are people that live off country
for so many years and the country that

386
00:21:27,274 --> 00:21:28,645
they're living on becomes their home.

387
00:21:28,725 --> 00:21:33,575
So, you know, for instance, where we
are now, I've lived and worked on the

388
00:21:33,575 --> 00:21:38,179
land of the Wurundjeri people for, You
know, pretty much my whole life and

389
00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:42,810
there are people that pass here and
they want to be buried at the Luruna

390
00:21:42,969 --> 00:21:47,629
Aboriginal Cemetery in Greenvale, which
is fine, they're still on country and

391
00:21:47,629 --> 00:21:53,270
country that they call home and it's
just about them and their choices.

392
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,660
So a lot of people want
to go home to country.

393
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,320
So they've got that safe passage to
the Dreaming because a lot of mob

394
00:22:03,330 --> 00:22:05,840
believe that if you aren't on country.

395
00:22:06,379 --> 00:22:11,840
it interferes with the journey
that you go on after life to your

396
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,780
ancestors and to the dream time.

397
00:22:13,790 --> 00:22:19,520
So you may find that a lot of people
that don't get buried on country that

398
00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:22,779
get buried down, they'll have that
smoking ceremony, they'll have that

399
00:22:22,779 --> 00:22:28,720
dance, they'll have those gum trees, gum
leaves, because that's the land owners

400
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:31,590
saying it's okay for them to be here.

401
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:32,620
They're home.

402
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,120
It's all our land.

403
00:22:34,790 --> 00:22:36,919
And that smoking is helping them.

404
00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:42,390
transfer or supporting them through
that journey to the dream time

405
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,750
from being away from country.

406
00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:47,569
And what I'd like you to do, Kinesha,
is if you can actually talk about

407
00:22:47,710 --> 00:22:52,420
what the beliefs are in relation to
that journey, like from when someone

408
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:56,930
dies through to the dream time, what
is that passage and what normally

409
00:22:56,940 --> 00:22:58,820
has to take place for that to happen?

410
00:22:59,530 --> 00:23:03,500
Well, I think everybody's different
in how they believe or what

411
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:07,460
they believe in regards to the
journey of going to the dreamy.

412
00:23:07,870 --> 00:23:11,750
But there are a few things that a lot
of people do, and it is that smoking

413
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:14,680
ceremony, it is having those gum leaves.

414
00:23:14,729 --> 00:23:19,799
Cause for me, gum leaves are a way of
releasing the spirit from the body.

415
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:25,300
And then the smoking is a signal to
help them along the way to find the

416
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:27,280
ancestors, to find their loved ones.

417
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:31,989
And then it's the thing of finding
their way back to their family, loved

418
00:23:31,989 --> 00:23:35,129
ones, but we also believe in our totems.

419
00:23:35,289 --> 00:23:40,099
So our totems to our maw,
we become after death.

420
00:23:40,609 --> 00:23:45,130
So when you see some people
as their wedge tailed eagle.

421
00:23:46,129 --> 00:23:50,200
That represents that loved one that
has passed and they're hovering above

422
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,470
you just to let you know that they're
here and they're supporting you.

423
00:23:53,629 --> 00:23:59,669
My partner passed away two years ago
through the COVID vaccination, and he

424
00:23:59,669 --> 00:24:04,689
was a massive Collingwood supporter,
my Lord, like ride or die Collingwood.

425
00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:12,315
And so when he passed, you know,
he wasn't an Aboriginal But in

426
00:24:12,315 --> 00:24:15,245
our hearts, we knew that he would
always come back as a magpie.

427
00:24:15,305 --> 00:24:19,824
So when we see a magpie at our
feet or standing near our door, we

428
00:24:19,825 --> 00:24:22,025
know he's there saying hello to us.

429
00:24:22,025 --> 00:24:25,975
Or, you know, if my kids are mucking
up and being naughty, then they

430
00:24:25,975 --> 00:24:27,215
know dad's there watching them.

431
00:24:27,245 --> 00:24:28,709
So they, they kind of, you know.

432
00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:30,670
Oh, dad, see, I would best stop it now.

433
00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:36,340
So the thing about the journey is
that there are multiple ways that,

434
00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:40,260
that our people show science that
they're okay, that it's happening.

435
00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:41,620
It's, it's the right thing.

436
00:24:42,330 --> 00:24:43,970
And the main thing is those totems.

437
00:24:43,979 --> 00:24:48,960
They come back as those totems to
then support you in the afterlife.

438
00:24:49,010 --> 00:24:51,620
But yeah, so everybody's different.

439
00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:54,560
I feel like there's that
many different mobs.

440
00:24:55,820 --> 00:25:00,120
that all have different beliefs in,
you know, because their old elders,

441
00:25:00,150 --> 00:25:05,150
their ancestors told stories of, which
got passed down to every single one

442
00:25:05,150 --> 00:25:10,110
of them to the day now, which we're
continuing to pass down to our young ones.

443
00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:16,150
But the biggest thing too, is Being able
to say goodbye when they do pass being

444
00:25:16,150 --> 00:25:21,460
there, being able to personally, we wash
our women and our men, but our men only

445
00:25:21,730 --> 00:25:23,730
wash men, our women only wash women.

446
00:25:24,669 --> 00:25:26,300
We bath them ourselves.

447
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,969
We dress them ourselves.

448
00:25:28,189 --> 00:25:29,770
We have our gum leaves.

449
00:25:29,979 --> 00:25:32,649
We have their favorite songs
playing in the background.

450
00:25:32,889 --> 00:25:38,090
And it's usually filled with all of
the women of the family to support

451
00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:42,489
one another, to get, you know, to do
that process together as a family.

452
00:25:43,015 --> 00:25:46,675
And Kanisha, is that done at
your mortuary in Clifton Hill,

453
00:25:47,095 --> 00:25:48,255
or is that done in the home?

454
00:25:48,695 --> 00:25:53,025
So it's completely up to the family
on where they want that to happen.

455
00:25:53,425 --> 00:25:55,944
I think it's a bit different
if someone's died suddenly.

456
00:25:56,215 --> 00:25:58,265
You can't do that, you know, at home.

457
00:25:58,385 --> 00:26:02,975
So you do need to wait until the
processes of all of that legal

458
00:26:02,975 --> 00:26:06,085
stuff has been done, and then you
usually would do it at Clifton Hill.

459
00:26:06,415 --> 00:26:09,949
If they've passed away in hospital,
We do it at the hospital before

460
00:26:09,949 --> 00:26:11,470
they take them down to the mortuary.

461
00:26:11,890 --> 00:26:14,430
And the hospitals have been very
supportive over the last few

462
00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:17,750
years of supporting Aboriginal
people through that process.

463
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,209
So there's been a few Aboriginal
people that have passed away in

464
00:26:22,259 --> 00:26:25,610
hospitals and they've allowed smoking
ceremonies on the balconies and

465
00:26:25,619 --> 00:26:27,939
dances and the music being played.

466
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,810
I feel that we're going in the right
direction in regards to our sorry

467
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:34,920
business and what we need to be done.

468
00:26:35,530 --> 00:26:39,090
And a lot of services are
being quite supportive of that.

469
00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:41,360
So I'm very happy to know that.

470
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:46,499
And you mentioned the term sorry
business and you just were talking about

471
00:26:46,740 --> 00:26:50,370
there's certain things that the men do
and certain things that the women do.

472
00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:52,610
Is that something that
you can elaborate on?

473
00:26:53,139 --> 00:26:57,419
So, look, I can't speak on behalf
of the men cause I don't really

474
00:26:57,419 --> 00:26:58,629
know what goes on in there.

475
00:26:58,739 --> 00:27:01,129
I wouldn't expect you to,
that's men's business.

476
00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:05,980
It definitely is men's business, but in
regards to the women, we do dress our own.

477
00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:09,559
We like to say our
goodbyes and kiss and hug.

478
00:27:09,609 --> 00:27:14,920
And like I said, we wash them, we
prepare them, we sit around, we talk.

479
00:27:15,455 --> 00:27:19,685
But that's a personal thing because
there are cultures or there are different

480
00:27:19,695 --> 00:27:24,945
mobs out there that don't speak of their
loved one that has passed because they

481
00:27:24,945 --> 00:27:29,284
believe also that that is an interference
of them going to the dreaming.

482
00:27:29,304 --> 00:27:32,164
So by saying their name, you're
bringing their spirit back to

483
00:27:32,164 --> 00:27:34,475
their body or back surrounding you.

484
00:27:34,475 --> 00:27:39,075
So they try not to speak their name
until, you know, a certain period.

485
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:42,960
That they know that that person has
traveled their journey to the dream time.

486
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:46,650
But personally, or for
myself, that's not the case.

487
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:51,230
I would definitely respect it if I did
come across anybody that was like that.

488
00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:56,689
And is that the same also with depicting
images of the person who's deceased?

489
00:27:57,090 --> 00:27:57,370
Yep.

490
00:27:57,410 --> 00:27:58,280
That's the same thing.

491
00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:01,680
It's interrupting the
journey to the dream time.

492
00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:06,740
And with the pictures, I think a lot
of it is just acknowledging that.

493
00:28:07,235 --> 00:28:12,205
There will be those people that are no
longer with us on the TV, you know, I,

494
00:28:12,225 --> 00:28:15,865
I see that on a few ads, they'll say,
you know, an acknowledgement that there

495
00:28:15,925 --> 00:28:20,955
may be pictures of deceased people or
whatever, that's just an, also a respect

496
00:28:20,955 --> 00:28:24,994
thing to say that, you know, there may
be something or someone that you may see

497
00:28:24,994 --> 00:28:26,645
that, that, you know, hurts a little bit.

498
00:28:26,865 --> 00:28:28,855
So just be wary that that's happening.

499
00:28:28,855 --> 00:28:29,095
So.

500
00:28:29,735 --> 00:28:33,264
Yeah, I've got one on my website when
people first log on to the website,

501
00:28:33,294 --> 00:28:37,564
just so they're aware that, you know,
they're talking about death and it

502
00:28:37,564 --> 00:28:41,794
may upset some people because it is
referring to people in the past, so.

503
00:28:41,794 --> 00:28:43,525
Yeah, definitely.

504
00:28:44,074 --> 00:28:49,915
And tell me, what are some of the
challenges that you find families face

505
00:28:50,155 --> 00:28:52,784
when a loved one does die in community?

506
00:28:53,260 --> 00:28:58,260
There's a few challenges, but I feel
like the main challenge is the finances.

507
00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:02,149
A lot of our mob aren't ready for it.

508
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,259
They're not prepared enough.

509
00:29:04,330 --> 00:29:07,790
Look, it's not a bad thing,
but personally, I don't like to

510
00:29:07,790 --> 00:29:11,189
talk about debt because I don't
want to jinx myself into debt.

511
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,450
So talking about it for our
people is a big, it's a big thing.

512
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,330
They don't like to talk about it.

513
00:29:18,975 --> 00:29:23,274
So when someone actually does pass
away, they're left with all the

514
00:29:23,274 --> 00:29:27,394
decisions having to be made without
having an input from that loved one

515
00:29:27,395 --> 00:29:28,965
because they never spoke about it.

516
00:29:29,124 --> 00:29:31,524
So there's constant conflict.

517
00:29:32,125 --> 00:29:38,385
Between, you know, siblings or loved
ones, there's financial difficulty because

518
00:29:38,435 --> 00:29:43,245
there was no, you know, funeral insurance,
or there was no money there for them

519
00:29:43,275 --> 00:29:46,925
to give their loved ones the best send
off or the send off that they deserved.

520
00:29:47,315 --> 00:29:51,605
And the grieving, the grieving is
the biggest factor for everybody.

521
00:29:51,605 --> 00:29:55,885
It doesn't matter who you are, but
grieving is an individual feeling.

522
00:29:55,925 --> 00:29:59,874
It's not something that you
share with others the same way.

523
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:05,100
Like personally, I'm grieving a
husband, but my children are grieving

524
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:08,420
a father, his mother is grieving a son.

525
00:30:08,620 --> 00:30:12,560
So though we are all grieving,
we are all grieving differently.

526
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:19,230
And that's what makes it harder to
support or to connect with somebody

527
00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:23,420
because everybody is differently
and they see the world differently.

528
00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:28,175
When you lose a loved one, there's
the anger, there's the stresses

529
00:30:28,205 --> 00:30:30,075
of the finances afterwards.

530
00:30:30,115 --> 00:30:34,945
And it may be, I think a lot of
people forget to that say, when an

531
00:30:34,965 --> 00:30:41,604
auntie passes away, the uncle has
lost his soulmate, someone that

532
00:30:41,604 --> 00:30:44,044
he's been with for 40 odd years.

533
00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:49,285
A dependent of the children, a
dependent of himself, a dependent of

534
00:30:49,875 --> 00:30:53,794
finances, a dependent of conversation.

535
00:30:53,845 --> 00:30:59,814
It's not just about the money, it's
about the loss of his whole life of

536
00:30:59,845 --> 00:31:04,525
being with one person and then having
to change that because of death.

537
00:31:05,205 --> 00:31:08,995
And it's coming to terms with
all of your everyday life being

538
00:31:08,995 --> 00:31:10,215
so different without them.

539
00:31:10,965 --> 00:31:14,085
And it's as simple as
sitting down for dinner.

540
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:19,890
Or getting in the car to go on a
holiday, or it's for, say, if it's for

541
00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:24,189
an auntie or an uncle, it's as simple
as them driving them to the supermarket.

542
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,960
So all those little things that people
forget, that when you are going through

543
00:31:30,050 --> 00:31:34,619
death and you have to get through all
of that massive process of a funeral,

544
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:37,640
that sometimes your headspace isn't.

545
00:31:38,055 --> 00:31:41,995
where it needs to be, which is why
the Victorian Aboriginal funeral

546
00:31:41,995 --> 00:31:46,765
service is so fantastic because they
know this, they understand this, and

547
00:31:46,785 --> 00:31:49,695
they will work with you in your time.

548
00:31:50,235 --> 00:31:54,125
They're not going to rush through
it because it needs to be done.

549
00:31:54,145 --> 00:31:56,155
And you have two weeks
to bury this loved one.

550
00:31:56,165 --> 00:31:56,645
No, no, no.

551
00:31:56,735 --> 00:31:57,785
We're going to take our time.

552
00:31:57,785 --> 00:31:58,985
We're going to get everything done.

553
00:31:59,395 --> 00:32:03,905
Even if we're in the background rushing
around, like I said, not sleeping, working

554
00:32:03,905 --> 00:32:08,834
till 12 o'clock, whatever it is, as long
as we know that that person has that

555
00:32:08,834 --> 00:32:12,955
little bit less of a burden on them when
they go home, then we're doing our job.

556
00:32:13,165 --> 00:32:14,475
And it's so right when you talk

557
00:32:14,485 --> 00:32:18,984
about there's the grief aspect, but then.

558
00:32:19,325 --> 00:32:22,385
There's the loss, which
is different to the grief.

559
00:32:23,355 --> 00:32:27,705
And it's then all of those little
losses that you were referring to,

560
00:32:28,215 --> 00:32:33,245
and then, you know, that identity
and that defined identity of

561
00:32:33,245 --> 00:32:35,685
being a partner for 40 odd years.

562
00:32:35,685 --> 00:32:37,465
And then what does that mean now?

563
00:32:37,705 --> 00:32:39,735
Who does that make me, who I am?

564
00:32:40,265 --> 00:32:42,785
So it is extremely complex.

565
00:32:42,845 --> 00:32:46,275
And what sort of services are
offered within the community

566
00:32:46,555 --> 00:32:48,515
that after sort of the funeral?

567
00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:49,210
Yeah.

568
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:52,600
So the thing about the Victorian
Aboriginal Funeral Service is too,

569
00:32:52,650 --> 00:32:58,280
that we're not just a service of once
we've buried a loved one, that's it.

570
00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:00,630
We have a check in service.

571
00:33:00,630 --> 00:33:01,850
We check in with them.

572
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:05,989
If they are needing a referral into
our family support unit because

573
00:33:05,989 --> 00:33:09,260
they're struggling with, you know,
the bills or they need that financial

574
00:33:09,260 --> 00:33:10,800
help, we refer them into there.

575
00:33:10,830 --> 00:33:13,710
We have the Victorian Aboriginal
Health Service that has

576
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,250
psychologists and counsellors.

577
00:33:15,250 --> 00:33:16,229
We have our local.

578
00:33:16,675 --> 00:33:18,795
Doctor, which is first people's wellbeing.

579
00:33:18,805 --> 00:33:22,705
Also, they have counsellors
and psychologists that can

580
00:33:22,715 --> 00:33:24,805
support through that as well.

581
00:33:24,835 --> 00:33:30,454
So we do also make referrals to other
support services to get the support that

582
00:33:30,454 --> 00:33:32,775
that individual is requiring at that time.

583
00:33:33,155 --> 00:33:34,955
They may not want it
straight away because.

584
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,470
We all know that when somebody passes,
there's that period of everybody's

585
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:41,090
surrounding you and everybody's there.

586
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,960
They're there to support you.

587
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,099
They help clean your home.

588
00:33:44,099 --> 00:33:44,760
They feed you.

589
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,220
They bring, you know,
casserole dishes to your house.

590
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,909
And so it's one thing that you
don't have to think about is

591
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,199
cooking dinner for your family.

592
00:33:53,199 --> 00:33:54,360
But it's the months after.

593
00:33:55,105 --> 00:33:59,375
That I'm not saying that you need them
all the time that you become reliant

594
00:33:59,375 --> 00:34:03,295
on them, but it's the months after that
you still need that little bit of ear to

595
00:34:03,355 --> 00:34:08,444
talk to someone to talk to about them,
tell somebody that you're struggling.

596
00:34:08,475 --> 00:34:11,444
And then that's when
the check in comes in.

597
00:34:11,564 --> 00:34:16,444
So it's not straight after it's
months later to see how they're going.

598
00:34:16,714 --> 00:34:20,415
Is there any supports or help that
you need that we can put you through?

599
00:34:20,925 --> 00:34:22,085
If it isn't uncle that.

600
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:23,610
and the aunts passed away.

601
00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:28,770
He may now need help with cleaning his
home or going to appointments or doing

602
00:34:28,770 --> 00:34:33,199
his shopping because his wife was the one
that was driving him or his wife was the

603
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:34,809
one that did all of that around the house.

604
00:34:34,810 --> 00:34:39,199
So it's the months after that we then
check in to see what services will be

605
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:43,470
available, what services he's wanting
and what services are available.

606
00:34:43,740 --> 00:34:46,960
We have multiple Aboriginal
organisations here.

607
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,290
We're very lucky in Victoria.

608
00:34:48,740 --> 00:34:53,860
what I feel, because we do have a whole
heap of supports that surround the

609
00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:57,690
northern suburbs that can help with
all of the care that you are needing.

610
00:34:58,210 --> 00:35:01,680
The other thing I'll say is all of
our services here at the Aboriginal

611
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,580
Expansion League is a holistic service.

612
00:35:04,090 --> 00:35:09,990
And it's community based, so when we
are sitting with the one person and

613
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:15,690
we're having conversation, we don't
just focus our attention on that person.

614
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:19,059
We focus on the people that
are surrounding them and

615
00:35:19,060 --> 00:35:20,750
that mean something to them.

616
00:35:21,309 --> 00:35:25,600
You know, if an aunt's come in, but
she's looking after her grandchildren

617
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,970
or she gets visitors from, you know,
family all over, but she's struggling.

618
00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:30,280
Thanks.

619
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:35,010
We know that auntie is not going to
get any help unless those that she

620
00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:37,020
loves around her get the help first.

621
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,440
So we will support those around her,
do what's necessary for them while we

622
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,189
are doing what's necessary for aunt.

623
00:35:44,579 --> 00:35:48,069
Because then we know that she is
more inclined to get the support

624
00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:53,240
that she's needing if she knows that
her babies are also being supported.

625
00:35:53,845 --> 00:36:00,635
Yeah, that's a very good way to manage a
situation is, you know, take the pressure

626
00:36:00,635 --> 00:36:05,205
off where the pressure is obviously may be
felt and that's when you have people who

627
00:36:05,205 --> 00:36:09,155
are dependent on you because more than,
you know, the case is that people will

628
00:36:09,155 --> 00:36:13,404
actually put all their love and attention
onto the things that they're responsible

629
00:36:13,554 --> 00:36:15,274
for rather than taking care of themselves.

630
00:36:15,514 --> 00:36:16,174
Yep, definitely.

631
00:36:16,355 --> 00:36:17,855
That's a really beautiful model.

632
00:36:18,385 --> 00:36:21,565
And what if someone is
attending an Aboriginal funeral?

633
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:26,170
Is there a particular protocol,
like what should people follow?

634
00:36:26,650 --> 00:36:28,070
What should people be mindful of?

635
00:36:28,615 --> 00:36:31,525
Look, I think it's down to
the individual and how that

636
00:36:31,525 --> 00:36:33,125
family is running that funeral.

637
00:36:33,365 --> 00:36:36,325
But the one thing is we're
all good at communicating.

638
00:36:37,085 --> 00:36:41,505
So if anything needs to be done or
anything's wanting to be done, it

639
00:36:41,515 --> 00:36:43,264
will be communicated to that person.

640
00:36:43,465 --> 00:36:48,435
So the biggest thing is just be
there, just be there, support.

641
00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:53,210
The person that you're there to support
and their family, they may say we're

642
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:55,750
yellow, like we've got a funeral blessed.

643
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:59,350
We've gone through a bit of sorry
business the last week, which is

644
00:36:59,350 --> 00:37:00,940
absolutely horrible in the community.

645
00:37:00,940 --> 00:37:04,909
We're all mourning, but one of our
aunties passed away, Aunt Debbie,

646
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:07,560
and her funeral will be next week.

647
00:37:08,085 --> 00:37:11,765
Next week, but the family box
that everyone wears yellow, cause

648
00:37:11,765 --> 00:37:12,995
yellow was her favorite color.

649
00:37:13,575 --> 00:37:18,185
So in regards to when you're attending
our funerals, just be mindful that

650
00:37:18,185 --> 00:37:20,175
there will most likely be smoking.

651
00:37:20,535 --> 00:37:24,135
Some people don't believe in the smoking
from different backgrounds or different

652
00:37:24,135 --> 00:37:26,085
cultures, different religious beliefs.

653
00:37:26,534 --> 00:37:30,925
But if you don't want to participate
in that, you can steer clear.

654
00:37:30,995 --> 00:37:34,305
But, um, yeah, just being
mindful that of your own beliefs

655
00:37:34,305 --> 00:37:36,235
and your own cultural aspects.

656
00:37:36,235 --> 00:37:36,565
Thanks.

657
00:37:36,905 --> 00:37:39,535
You'll feel more comfortable
going, but like I said, they will

658
00:37:39,535 --> 00:37:43,485
definitely tell you what they
want or what is necessary for it.

659
00:37:43,765 --> 00:37:46,755
The thing about our funerals
is everybody is welcome.

660
00:37:47,114 --> 00:37:50,994
It's not totally, it was really funny
because my, I'll tell you a story quickly.

661
00:37:51,535 --> 00:37:56,275
My oldest is 16 this year, but she would
have been maybe 13, I reckon, maybe 12.

662
00:37:56,325 --> 00:38:01,635
And one of her best friends, cousin,
distant cousin, but best friends,

663
00:38:01,635 --> 00:38:06,060
her dad passed away and, She said
to me after, she said, Mum, I really

664
00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:07,270
want to go to Uncle's funeral.

665
00:38:07,350 --> 00:38:08,520
And I said, Yeah, bub, that's fine.

666
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,970
She goes, Yeah, but Mum, I
didn't get an invitation.

667
00:38:11,470 --> 00:38:15,220
And I said, Bub, you don't
get invitations to funerals.

668
00:38:16,645 --> 00:38:17,995
And she was like, wait, what?

669
00:38:18,035 --> 00:38:18,345
No.

670
00:38:18,415 --> 00:38:22,945
And I said, no, if you know that person,
you want to pay your respects to that

671
00:38:22,945 --> 00:38:27,274
person and to their family, you just
go, they'll put up a notice on when it's

672
00:38:27,275 --> 00:38:29,394
happening, what day, and then you go.

673
00:38:29,614 --> 00:38:32,995
And she's like, Oh, I thought
I needed an invitation.

674
00:38:33,215 --> 00:38:36,265
Which I thought was absolutely
adorable at the same time.

675
00:38:36,525 --> 00:38:40,775
I was like, you don't need an invitation
to go to a funeral, you poor thing.

676
00:38:40,875 --> 00:38:41,885
That's so amazing.

677
00:38:41,885 --> 00:38:45,465
Like I love the way in which kids
think they just break it down,

678
00:38:45,535 --> 00:38:47,655
like to the just basic level.

679
00:38:48,024 --> 00:38:52,765
And to be honest, I hadn't really thought
of that difference, but it really is.

680
00:38:52,765 --> 00:38:56,575
Like up until that point, she probably
always got invitations to birthdays.

681
00:38:56,645 --> 00:38:57,025
Yes,

682
00:38:57,055 --> 00:38:57,665
that's right.

683
00:38:57,715 --> 00:38:57,965
Yep.

684
00:38:57,985 --> 00:38:59,815
You know, and birthday parties.

685
00:38:59,825 --> 00:39:02,645
So, you know, one, she
was confused that she.

686
00:39:02,955 --> 00:39:05,965
Didn't feel like she could go because
she hadn't received her invitation.

687
00:39:06,005 --> 00:39:06,405
Yeah.

688
00:39:07,165 --> 00:39:08,325
That's amazing.

689
00:39:08,415 --> 00:39:09,445
I really like that.

690
00:39:09,525 --> 00:39:10,685
That one will stay with me.

691
00:39:10,705 --> 00:39:11,325
That's very beautiful.

692
00:39:12,125 --> 00:39:17,225
How would you, you've already mentioned
that, you know, supporting someone is

693
00:39:17,244 --> 00:39:20,994
to not just be there at the funeral
or immediately after someone's

694
00:39:20,994 --> 00:39:23,275
died, but also checking in on them.

695
00:39:23,790 --> 00:39:25,810
You know, months after as well.

696
00:39:26,330 --> 00:39:28,570
Is there anything else
that people should do?

697
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,760
Is there anything that people
should bring or people should

698
00:39:32,770 --> 00:39:34,649
offer in relation to a funeral?

699
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:34,889
I

700
00:39:34,889 --> 00:39:38,490
feel like it's an individual perspective.

701
00:39:38,499 --> 00:39:41,700
So, you know, there's people that
bring flowers, there's people that give

702
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:43,860
money, there's people that will buy.

703
00:39:44,585 --> 00:39:48,445
Somebody, something that they need
or it's food or it's whatever.

704
00:39:48,465 --> 00:39:52,355
But I feel that at the end of
the day, that the materialistic

705
00:39:52,355 --> 00:39:53,665
kind of stuff doesn't matter.

706
00:39:54,035 --> 00:39:55,175
It's your presence.

707
00:39:55,334 --> 00:39:59,834
If you can't call text, if you
can't be there, give them a call.

708
00:39:59,875 --> 00:40:05,705
Like personally, I feel like somebody
can have all the money in the world,

709
00:40:05,725 --> 00:40:11,255
but if they don't have that love and
support, then what's the money, money

710
00:40:11,265 --> 00:40:13,795
doesn't make you anything, but money is.

711
00:40:14,205 --> 00:40:17,465
What gets you through every day, make
sure you have a roof over your head.

712
00:40:17,465 --> 00:40:18,395
Your bills are paid.

713
00:40:18,395 --> 00:40:23,005
You've got clothes on your back, you know,
new shoes for your children, but the love

714
00:40:23,045 --> 00:40:26,385
and the care and the support that you
have within your community, within your

715
00:40:26,385 --> 00:40:28,905
family, you can't buy that with money.

716
00:40:29,395 --> 00:40:30,374
Flowers die.

717
00:40:30,434 --> 00:40:32,954
So I personally don't
like flowers given to me.

718
00:40:33,065 --> 00:40:35,525
They smell beautiful, but
I'm not a green thumb.

719
00:40:35,525 --> 00:40:36,723
So I don't look after them.

720
00:40:36,723 --> 00:40:38,041
So they're not weak.

721
00:40:38,041 --> 00:40:42,770
They're like, Dead and I'm like, oh
man, so I do prefer fake flowers,

722
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,380
but my main message here is
supporting those By being present.

723
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,060
That's the biggest thing be present for
those that you care and you love for

724
00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:59,560
Because at the end of the day tomorrow
is never promised and the saying of

725
00:40:59,610 --> 00:41:05,200
you only live once No, you only die
once but you live every single day.

726
00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:12,085
So make it worth it I personally, for my
loved ones, we do, which is really cute.

727
00:41:12,135 --> 00:41:16,315
My pop passed away a few years ago now,
and he was a big golf player, right?

728
00:41:16,365 --> 00:41:19,785
So he was retired playing
golf three, four times a week.

729
00:41:19,815 --> 00:41:26,975
And when he passed away, my dad decided to
do a golf tournament in memory of my pop.

730
00:41:26,985 --> 00:41:27,365
So.

731
00:41:28,025 --> 00:41:33,015
The whole family, once a year
at my pop's birthday, we all go

732
00:41:33,435 --> 00:41:37,034
to the country where my pop was,
and we all do a golf tournament.

733
00:41:37,425 --> 00:41:42,144
So, we all go out and play golf, and
whoever wins gets their name on the Sutton

734
00:41:42,144 --> 00:41:44,785
Golf Trophy, which is Absolutely awesome.

735
00:41:44,795 --> 00:41:47,835
So every year we honor
our pop by playing golf.

736
00:41:47,865 --> 00:41:50,565
And there's people that like, there's
my cousins that don't even know

737
00:41:50,565 --> 00:41:53,675
how to play golf, but they just
go in and he, oh, it takes hours,

738
00:41:53,705 --> 00:41:57,865
but you know, it's being present,
it's being present for that memory.

739
00:41:57,865 --> 00:42:03,690
And, you know, personally, when my partner
passed away, His first year anniversary,

740
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:07,990
I thought, you know, what can I do that's
going to make me a little bit happier.

741
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:13,840
And so I began to wear silly
socks for the whole month of May.

742
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,550
So every day I wore
different stupid socks.

743
00:42:17,579 --> 00:42:21,020
There was Elmo and South Park
and whatever I could get my

744
00:42:21,020 --> 00:42:22,540
hands on, you know, chisels.

745
00:42:23,180 --> 00:42:28,410
So every day for the month of May, I
wore different socks to lift my spirits

746
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:30,649
up for that month, to get through.

747
00:42:31,135 --> 00:42:34,445
The loss of someone that
I truly cared and loved.

748
00:42:34,905 --> 00:42:36,575
So I did that last year.

749
00:42:36,945 --> 00:42:38,205
This year I did it again.

750
00:42:38,595 --> 00:42:42,695
I posted it on my Facebook, but my
sister has gotten involved in it as well.

751
00:42:42,715 --> 00:42:47,654
So every year I think I'll get more and
more of our family to, not that I have

752
00:42:47,684 --> 00:42:50,545
to do it for the whole month, maybe
just do it on the day that he passed.

753
00:42:50,555 --> 00:42:55,325
So his death anniversary, but all my
kids wore silly socks on his anniversary.

754
00:42:55,335 --> 00:42:57,485
My sister, my cousins, all of them.

755
00:42:57,895 --> 00:43:02,545
Participated in the Silly Sock Day this
year, which was absolutely fantastic,

756
00:43:02,575 --> 00:43:05,875
but it's that keeping their memory alive.

757
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:11,180
By doing something that was special
to them and bringing in your family

758
00:43:11,180 --> 00:43:13,120
to support you with that as well.

759
00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:14,650
That's really beautiful.

760
00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:15,699
I love the

761
00:43:15,699 --> 00:43:17,400
simplicity of the socks.

762
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:17,840
Yeah.

763
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,079
I, I am a big lover of wacky sock.

764
00:43:21,630 --> 00:43:23,749
Everyone who knows me knows that.

765
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,189
And I think that's a great way
to just remember someone because,

766
00:43:28,189 --> 00:43:29,639
you know, it makes you smile.

767
00:43:30,005 --> 00:43:30,675
Yeah, it does.

768
00:43:30,745 --> 00:43:31,245
It does.

769
00:43:31,595 --> 00:43:32,765
It makes you happy.

770
00:43:33,055 --> 00:43:38,345
And my biggest thing too is, so my
partner died when I was six months

771
00:43:38,365 --> 00:43:39,595
pregnant with our little boy.

772
00:43:40,445 --> 00:43:45,255
So he didn't get to meet, well, he
met my son Valentino before I did,

773
00:43:45,494 --> 00:43:50,094
put it this way, in the spirits, but
he didn't get to meet him earth side.

774
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:57,310
So for my family and for myself,
having to introduce Valentino's dad

775
00:43:57,330 --> 00:44:02,499
to him through pictures and stories
and memories is a difficult thing

776
00:44:02,499 --> 00:44:05,959
because he would never meet him, but
he'll see photos and hear stories.

777
00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:06,150
So.

778
00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:10,790
My biggest thing with my children is as
hard as it is to talk about daddy, you

779
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:15,849
need to, you know, and that goes back on
what other people or other mobs do that

780
00:44:15,849 --> 00:44:20,170
they don't speak their name, but for my
household, it is vital for my children

781
00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:27,410
to speak about their dad and what he did
and who he was for our youngest children.

782
00:44:27,790 --> 00:44:32,570
Because my, My youngest is one, so
I was pregnant with him and then my

783
00:44:32,570 --> 00:44:34,070
second youngest was two years old.

784
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,440
So still a baby.

785
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,460
She still remembers daddy and
looks for daddy, but she grieves

786
00:44:38,490 --> 00:44:41,220
in her own little way because she
doesn't understand the difference.

787
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,019
She's not old enough to
comprehend the grief and the loss.

788
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:49,099
She feels it and doesn't understand why
she's feeling that way, which is probably

789
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:54,350
worse than myself and my other two is
not knowing that, that she's feeling

790
00:44:54,350 --> 00:44:56,389
this pain, but she can feel the pain.

791
00:44:56,970 --> 00:44:58,530
So for us talking about.

792
00:44:58,990 --> 00:45:05,750
My partner is a big, it's a big must
just to keep his presence and his memory

793
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:07,900
alive within those two little ones.

794
00:45:08,910 --> 00:45:09,999
It's really beautiful.

795
00:45:10,279 --> 00:45:13,280
Do you have pictures up on
the wall that you have of him?

796
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,530
Yep, so I have a, I have pictures
all over my house of Daniel.

797
00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:24,660
And I actually got a beautiful Aboriginal
artist to do a family portrait of

798
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:26,970
all of us, including our unborn baby.

799
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,239
So I've got a family portrait with
Daniel and myself and the four kids in

800
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:33,959
my hallway, which is absolutely awesome.

801
00:45:33,989 --> 00:45:37,980
But yeah, so we definitely have
photos and all of that around.

802
00:45:38,220 --> 00:45:42,310
We have videos playing all the time,
his favorite songs play, you know,

803
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,060
while we're home dancing to them.

804
00:45:44,060 --> 00:45:44,180
We'll

805
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:45,190
But yeah.

806
00:45:45,650 --> 00:45:49,670
Kanesha, I can't thank you enough for
sharing your personal story with us.

807
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,570
Is there anything else that you'd
like to share or like to say?

808
00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:02,689
Yeah, I really do want to stress a little
bit on community, on supporting the

809
00:46:02,689 --> 00:46:04,570
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

810
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:08,850
It is an essential service for our people.

811
00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:12,070
We have supported community members.

812
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:14,010
For many, many years.

813
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:19,880
And we will continue to do so, even if
it means we have to, I don't know, we'll

814
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,180
get it done, let's just say that, but we
do need support through community, all

815
00:46:24,210 --> 00:46:29,029
communities, you know, here at the league,
we have all put in, we take, you know,

816
00:46:29,869 --> 00:46:36,550
a little 5 out of our pay weekly, and
we put it into the funeral service fund.

817
00:46:36,670 --> 00:46:42,890
So it may not seem like a lot of money,
but if, You know, thousands of people

818
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:46,040
put in 5 a week out of their little pay.

819
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:51,340
It accumulates and it does help those
that cannot afford a proper funeral.

820
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,830
A Victorian Aboriginal
funeral is not expensive.

821
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:56,119
We do not.

822
00:46:56,295 --> 00:47:03,215
Charge any extra cash on top of anything,
what we pay for each item we charge.

823
00:47:03,245 --> 00:47:09,244
So if we're paying 900 for a, for a
coffin, you're paying 900 for a coffin.

824
00:47:09,245 --> 00:47:12,645
We're not putting on any extra cash
on top of it to make a profit for

825
00:47:12,645 --> 00:47:16,075
ourselves, which is why it's so low cost.

826
00:47:16,195 --> 00:47:19,960
A standard funeral, depending on
where you're being buried, The cost

827
00:47:20,090 --> 00:47:22,470
of a funeral is the burial place.

828
00:47:22,510 --> 00:47:26,620
That's where the money is going,
you know, Faulkner Cemetery, all

829
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:32,019
of those big cemeteries, a cost of
fortune to get buried in now, you're

830
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:34,070
talking minimum five grand for a plot.

831
00:47:34,645 --> 00:47:38,895
You know, and then you've got
all the extras of a coffin.

832
00:47:39,215 --> 00:47:41,605
If you want to live stream it,
there's that extra thousand

833
00:47:41,605 --> 00:47:42,965
dollars for live streaming.

834
00:47:42,995 --> 00:47:46,945
Then you've got, you know, your
flowers and some people can't afford

835
00:47:46,975 --> 00:47:50,555
to get clothes for their loved one
because the clothes that they had

836
00:47:50,575 --> 00:47:54,014
don't fit them anymore or all of
that kind of stuff, which we provide.

837
00:47:54,014 --> 00:47:59,205
We have clothes here for that, for
that instance, we support families.

838
00:47:59,545 --> 00:48:02,095
If they don't have clothes for
the funeral, we've got clothes for

839
00:48:02,095 --> 00:48:03,655
them to support them in that too.

840
00:48:03,655 --> 00:48:03,895
So.

841
00:48:04,455 --> 00:48:07,505
All those little things that we
kind of forget, we're here, we

842
00:48:07,505 --> 00:48:09,095
do support in that type of way.

843
00:48:09,465 --> 00:48:12,425
The funeral service needs all
the funding that they could get.

844
00:48:12,525 --> 00:48:15,255
We just brought a new hearse
because our old hearse broke down.

845
00:48:15,620 --> 00:48:20,360
And it's very old, but we had to
ask community members and community

846
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,710
organizations to pitch in for that because
we just do not have the money to support.

847
00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:29,539
Well, we don't have the money to outlay
for a brand new hearse, which is a hundred

848
00:48:29,540 --> 00:48:31,649
and well, it's like a hundred grand.

849
00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:32,839
Like it's very expensive.

850
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,044
Yeah.

851
00:48:34,465 --> 00:48:37,695
But we finally got one, which
we want to thank everybody

852
00:48:37,695 --> 00:48:39,175
that had contributed to that.

853
00:48:39,185 --> 00:48:40,035
So thank you.

854
00:48:40,385 --> 00:48:45,685
I just want to say, if anybody
does want to, you can contact the

855
00:48:45,685 --> 00:48:50,924
Aborigines Advancement League and
they can give you a bank details.

856
00:48:50,925 --> 00:48:55,365
And it is purely just for the
Victorian Aboriginal Funeral Service.

857
00:48:55,385 --> 00:48:57,085
It does not go anywhere else.

858
00:48:57,505 --> 00:49:01,725
It is there reserved for those
families that cannot afford.

859
00:49:02,215 --> 00:49:04,625
To lay their loved one to rest.

860
00:49:04,785 --> 00:49:08,325
The other thing that I found that
because of the cost of burials,

861
00:49:08,345 --> 00:49:11,715
a lot of our mob have started to
go the other way in cremating.

862
00:49:12,235 --> 00:49:16,644
I was always told growing up
that you belong to the earth and

863
00:49:16,645 --> 00:49:18,134
when you die, you go back to it.

864
00:49:18,464 --> 00:49:20,025
And that is meaning by burial.

865
00:49:20,134 --> 00:49:24,575
So cremation is somewhat against
what we really do believe.

866
00:49:25,275 --> 00:49:29,535
But families have had to do the
cremation because they just could

867
00:49:29,535 --> 00:49:33,855
not afford to bury their loved ones
where they really wanted them to go.

868
00:49:34,365 --> 00:49:40,925
The other thing is our service
has connections and rapports

869
00:49:40,945 --> 00:49:44,974
with all the local Aboriginal
cemeteries and local councils.

870
00:49:45,075 --> 00:49:51,615
So it doesn't matter if, you know, you're
unsure where you come from or what, or

871
00:49:51,635 --> 00:49:57,315
if you can go home, those people, we
have connections with the elders and they

872
00:49:57,315 --> 00:50:01,125
are there to support you as well, which
we can refer and have a yarn with them.

873
00:50:01,215 --> 00:50:04,565
We have connection to all of
those local land councils.

874
00:50:04,585 --> 00:50:09,005
So going home to be buried is easy
through us because we know who we need

875
00:50:09,034 --> 00:50:13,185
to contact and how we can get you home
safely and culturally appropriate.

876
00:50:13,695 --> 00:50:17,825
The other thing I wanted to say was,
the funeral service do get supports

877
00:50:17,825 --> 00:50:21,574
through other organizations, through
local land councils, they also have

878
00:50:21,574 --> 00:50:24,855
certain amount of money, I'm not saying
they're big amounts, but they do support

879
00:50:24,855 --> 00:50:30,305
Aboriginal people through the processing
of, you know, losing a loved one.

880
00:50:30,695 --> 00:50:35,325
It may be, you know, a thousand
dollars to contribute to the funeral.

881
00:50:35,555 --> 00:50:39,035
There's a fantastic, which I'm very
grateful for them at the moment.

882
00:50:39,535 --> 00:50:40,685
They're called Pay the Rent.

883
00:50:41,085 --> 00:50:46,635
They support a lot of our community in
regards to paying off some funerals, or

884
00:50:46,665 --> 00:50:50,515
they give them, you know, some money to
go and buy themselves some new clothes

885
00:50:50,665 --> 00:50:52,575
for the funeral or for the loved one.

886
00:50:52,625 --> 00:50:53,585
So they're very supportive.

887
00:50:53,585 --> 00:50:58,064
So we're very, very thankful that they
are on board with us and they support us.

888
00:50:58,115 --> 00:51:01,135
But again, they're not sort of
massive amount of money and maybe

889
00:51:01,135 --> 00:51:06,755
1, 500, but 1, 500, 1, 500 is good
enough to get the ball rolling.

890
00:51:06,755 --> 00:51:07,504
Yeah.

891
00:51:07,685 --> 00:51:11,795
So yeah, make sure that we put
all of that information and those

892
00:51:11,795 --> 00:51:15,665
links to your website and your
contact details in the show notes.

893
00:51:15,675 --> 00:51:20,255
So people can, you know, go there straight
away and support the work that you're

894
00:51:20,255 --> 00:51:21,924
doing because it really is so important.

895
00:51:22,605 --> 00:51:23,525
Yeah, that would be great.

896
00:51:23,545 --> 00:51:25,005
If you could definitely do that.

897
00:51:25,015 --> 00:51:29,775
Let's try and get some more people around
this beautiful service and supporting them

898
00:51:29,825 --> 00:51:34,584
to keep it going for another 60 years,
because I've used this service myself.

899
00:51:34,645 --> 00:51:39,114
Personally, my partner was not Aboriginal
or Torres Strait Islander, like I did say

900
00:51:39,125 --> 00:51:41,074
earlier, but because of my connection.

901
00:51:41,375 --> 00:51:45,215
Through the funeral service, they
supported me with doing his funeral,

902
00:51:45,215 --> 00:51:46,645
which I'm very thankful for.

903
00:51:47,195 --> 00:51:50,454
I have used it through all of my
family members that have passed

904
00:51:50,455 --> 00:51:54,455
away, their, their first call
for anyone that has passed going

905
00:51:54,455 --> 00:51:56,245
straight to the funeral service.

906
00:51:56,405 --> 00:52:00,155
So I have personally worked in, in it.

907
00:52:00,645 --> 00:52:04,115
I have used it and I am a community
and proud Aboriginal woman.

908
00:52:04,115 --> 00:52:09,885
So this service is essential to our
people, essential to our mobs, and

909
00:52:10,045 --> 00:52:11,835
we don't just support our own people.

910
00:52:11,884 --> 00:52:15,555
You know, if your loved one
is like, we support aunties

911
00:52:15,575 --> 00:52:17,364
that are not Aboriginal, but.

912
00:52:17,740 --> 00:52:20,670
Our uncle, that's their
love of their life.

913
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,420
So their family, it doesn't matter.

914
00:52:22,530 --> 00:52:24,250
So we're not exclusive.

915
00:52:24,370 --> 00:52:26,100
Like we don't exclude anybody.

916
00:52:26,469 --> 00:52:30,910
If you are struggling, you have connection
to community in any shape or form.

917
00:52:31,009 --> 00:52:32,230
We're there to support you.

918
00:52:32,670 --> 00:52:33,569
So it is a service.

919
00:52:34,130 --> 00:52:37,440
purely for cultural reasons for
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

920
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,150
people, but we're definitely here
to help if that's what is necessary.

921
00:52:41,150 --> 00:52:44,259
And if that's what a family is
needing, we wouldn't ever turn

922
00:52:44,259 --> 00:52:47,789
down somebody because they're not
Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander.

923
00:52:48,289 --> 00:52:50,570
Well, thank you so much
for your time, Kanesha.

924
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,240
And just to explain the amazing
work that you do and also

925
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:56,860
sharing your very personal story.

926
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:57,930
Thank you.

927
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,140
Appreciate that.

928
00:52:59,150 --> 00:53:00,160
Thank you very much.

929
00:53:02,910 --> 00:53:06,320
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,

930
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,220
brought to you by Critical Info.

931
00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:13,419
If you liked the episode, learnt something
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932
00:53:13,420 --> 00:53:15,340
heard, we'd love for you to let us know.

933
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,930
Send us an email, even tell your friends.

934
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:20,820
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935
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:25,180
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936
00:53:25,180 --> 00:53:26,920
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937
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:28,570
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938
00:53:28,690 --> 00:53:29,680
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939
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,610
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940
00:53:33,610 --> 00:53:39,840
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