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Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see

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under your, your term as president of

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Kelly: AFDA?

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Oh, another great question.

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I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.

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So as my dad said, we alway ... Read More

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Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see

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00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,939
under your, your term as president of

3
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:10,710
Kelly: AFDA?

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00:00:11,660 --> 00:00:12,779
Oh, another great question.

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I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.

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So as my dad said, we always had that.

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idea that you never stop learning.

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And we've just introduced, the
AFDA has just introduced an online

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funeral learning hub because a lot
of our members are really remote.

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So to get to in person training is near
on impossible and very costly, you know,

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to get to major cities or regional cities.

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So this is an Australian first,
it's world class, um, that's in

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the UK and New Zealand as well.

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And it's only exclusively
available to our AFDA members.

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And it is.

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An incredible collection of
training and learning that we

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can do together as members.

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Catherine: Welcome to Don't Be
Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging

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open conversations about dying
and the death of a loved one.

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I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder
of Critical Info, and I'm helping to

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bring your stories of death back to life.

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Because while you may not be ready
to die, at least you can be prepared.

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Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges
the lands of the Kulin Nations.

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and recognises their connection
to land, sea and community.

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We pay our respects to their Elders,
past, present and emerging and extend

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that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander and First

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Nation peoples around the globe.

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Kelly Scott is the General Manager
of TJ Scott Son Funeral Directors

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based in the Macedon Ranges, Victoria.

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It's a family business which was
established by her great grandfather

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Thomas John Scott in 1938.

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She works alongside her father John Scott
and brother Daniel and has joined the

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profession in 1990 over 30 years ago.

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Kelly is president of the Australian
Funeral Directors Association.

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Thank you for joining us Kelly.

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Kelly: Thanks so much
for having me Catherine.

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Catherine: Now what was it like
growing up as a child with your family

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running the only funeral home in

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Kelly: It's funny, it's just
what you know, isn't it?

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It's like anything else.

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But it's something that was
all around us all the time.

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So family functions and lunches
at my grandparents house, the

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phone would ring, everyone would
be quiet, we'd answer a call.

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So it was always around us,
we were very conscious of it.

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Yet at the same time, funnily
enough, it was never forced on us.

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It was not one of those things that
we were kept, oh, you're going to join

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the family business, you know, you and
your brother or anything like that.

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It was, in fact, it was
almost the other way.

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We had to show interest in it later
in life to sort of show dad that we

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were interested in coming along board.

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So that was really interesting, but
it's interesting growing up knowing you,

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Your dad does something quite important.

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You can see that it's important, but you
don't really understand what is involved.

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In fact, I probably thought he was
like what I thought was an air traffic

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controller out in front of the plane.

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I remember seeing him walking
in front of a hearse once.

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I thought, Oh, that's what he does.

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He walks in front of a hearse
and tells it where to go.

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So that was when I was very little.

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So it is funny how you have
those misconceptions and, you

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know, don't really understand.

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So he didn't really bring work home.

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with him.

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It wasn't something talked about.

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The sanctity of people's
privacy was paramount, my

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grandparents instilled that in us.

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So it's not something that was discussed
at home openly because that would be,

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you know, it stopped protecting people's
privacy, but it was very much all around.

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We were very aware that at any
time Dad could be called out and

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need to go and help a family.

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Catherine: So there's just
yourself and your brother, Daniel.

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Kelly: That's right.

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Catherine: And you say that you,
it wasn't discussed at home.

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The work wasn't discussed at home.

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Was death discussed at home and
planning for your own sort of death?

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Kelly: Absolutely.

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So those sorts of conversations, you'd
hear about cemeteries and cremations and

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coffins and at my grandparents house,
they used to have the home office there.

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So families would come to my grandparents
home and they would meet with my granddad

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or my dad, and there was a coffin.

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display room in my grandparents
house in one of the bedrooms.

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So we used to run past for all the time.

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And again, we weren't allowed in
because my grandfather was very

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respectful of, you know, all that.

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So there's no, you know, shenanigans,
but it was very much a part of that.

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So, and my, my grandparents were
very open about things like wills

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and who was getting what, because
they saw families in crisis and

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fighting over those little things.

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So everyone knew.

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Where my grandparents were
going to be buried and what the

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funeral was going to be like.

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And those sorts of conversations
were very, very open in our family.

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So, which was really different.

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So I don't know what that's like
not to have those conversations.

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Catherine: No, I'm, I'm similar.

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My father was a, a clerk of
courts in the coroner's court.

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So I, I grew up just always expecting
that you had a will at the age of 18.

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And, and so like, I didn't know any
different until I met my husband and,

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uh, and that was totally different.

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So tell me at what point in time
did you go, okay, I think I need

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to prove to dad that I'd like to
be involved in the family business.

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Kelly: I don't know exactly
what age I expressed that

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interest, but it was quite early.

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I used to go where our building is now,
when we first bought this, it was an

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old Baptist church here in Kyneton,
and we did it up a little bit to start

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with, it's been fully renovated since.

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And I remember coming here after school
and cleaning, you know, just, you know,

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organizing the kitchen and making sure
his desk was tidy, very fascinated.

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And it was probably because
There weren't any women that I

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knew of in the funeral industry.

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Now I say that, of course, understanding
that my grandmother was very much involved

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in our family business behind the scenes,
but as a person at the front arranging

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00:06:09,380 --> 00:06:12,880
funerals, you know, conducting funerals,
that, that was certainly wasn't my nana.

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So I think it was almost a bit of a,
well, I don't think I can, so I will,

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you know, and I was very interested in,
in doing something that that I didn't

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think was something that was possible.

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A lot of our women in
our family are nurses.

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So to me, that, that segue is
quite a natural segue from nursing

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to fetal directing in many ways.

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Uh, first and foremost is
the care of the deceased.

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That's the most important thing we do.

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Forget all the other bells and whistles.

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It's looking after someone
who has died for a family and

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being entrusted with care.

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With that care is the most important
thing we do and it's something that's been

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instilled in me since I first started.

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So I expressed an interest to dad and
he said, you know, go off and do your,

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there's no room for you here yet.

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And there was literally just my dad and
my uncle working at that time together,

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you know, and my grandparents still had
the phone, well into their eighties.

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And then I went, so I started nursing
and one day dad rang me and said, you

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always said you'd like to do this.

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I need someone there.

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So it's okay if you don't want to, but
before I put it out there, would you

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be interested in coming to work for me?

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And I left uni for Friday
and started work Monday.

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So it was an easy decision
and one I've never regretted.

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Catherine: And how old were
you when you were at uni?

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Kelly: 18.

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Yeah, first year of uni.

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Yeah, I was living in Melbourne and,
and, uh, yeah, it was just, I don't know.

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I just knew that that was what I
wanted to do and I've never, never

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regretted it, I must say, even
though I still love a hospital.

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Isn't that funny?

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I do . I love, I love nursing.

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I love that whole deal idea of it.

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But what I get to do that most
of the nurses I know can't get.

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Do it this time, because
I don't have time.

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You spend time with the patients.

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Whereas here, being a family business,
if I need to spend all day with the

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family, I can spend all day with them.

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You know, there's no time limits.

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And that's what I love
about the work that we do.

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Catherine: Oh, that's really beautiful.

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00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:13,555
I hadn't Thought about it like that,
the fact that you actually do get to

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00:08:13,565 --> 00:08:17,385
take care of your clients for as long
as you want to, where yeah, very much

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00:08:17,545 --> 00:08:21,835
people, healthcare workers don't, are
very time poor in relation to that.

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00:08:22,465 --> 00:08:23,484
Kelly: Oh, they don't have the time.

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00:08:23,484 --> 00:08:26,024
It's not their fault because I think
that's the best part of what they do.

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And they, You know, as I said, the nurses
I know complain about the fact they

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don't have that one on one time with
the patients as much as they used to.

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And so I think, Oh, I really would miss
that because that's what I, when I first

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did my nursing placements, I used to
love, especially being with older people,

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cause I was very close to grandparents.

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I could sit there and
talk to them for hours.

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And to me, that's an
integral part of partner.

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Understanding what they need
in a hospitable environment.

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Catherine: And tell me, what were
your first tasks that you were

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00:08:54,895 --> 00:08:57,195
brought in to, to help dad with?

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Kelly: Was certainly,
probably more administrative.

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00:09:00,445 --> 00:09:02,054
It probably wasn't his strong suit.

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00:09:02,054 --> 00:09:05,695
He's very much a people
person and out and about.

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So, very much, uh, Answering the phones,
doing accounts, that sort of thing.

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And he really, now that I look
back, he really eased me into it.

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I think he probably protected me
early on from some of the more, um,

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confronting situations that might
have, well, gosh, this isn't for me.

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And he, but at the same time,
there was dad and uncle and myself.

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So you're thrown into it.

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You have to be able to learn
to do everything because

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there's only three of us.

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00:09:32,015 --> 00:09:32,594
doing that.

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So it is a little bit of a baptism
of fire in a small, very small

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00:09:36,405 --> 00:09:40,395
family business, but it's great to
learn everything from the ground up.

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And even with our staff now.

185
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I would say when they come in, everyone
cleans the toilets, everyone washes the

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00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:49,660
hearses, everyone vacuums the floors,
and that's including me, and I've been

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00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:53,480
doing this 34 years, but we have to,
all of that's part of caring for a

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00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,429
family, making sure that everything's
ready for a family to come in to say

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goodbye to a loved one, so it was
really good having that really hard

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00:10:01,890 --> 00:10:06,500
grounding, and he certainly, you know,
made sure we knew how to do everything.

191
00:10:06,705 --> 00:10:07,765
Yeah, along the way.

192
00:10:09,585 --> 00:10:12,335
Catherine: Was there anything
in particular that your dad

193
00:10:12,675 --> 00:10:18,454
really wanted for you to take on
board, uh, about the business?

194
00:10:18,515 --> 00:10:23,384
I know that I've spoken to another
funeral director down in, in Gippsland

195
00:10:23,384 --> 00:10:29,325
in sale and, and he was saying that
his mum was really particular about him

196
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learning exactly what you were saying,
how to, you know, wash the hearse,

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00:10:33,755 --> 00:10:35,735
how to vacuum, clean the toilets.

198
00:10:36,354 --> 00:10:42,125
You know, really be involved in it, uh,
always to, to be super clean and, and

199
00:10:42,135 --> 00:10:44,995
tidy and make everything very presentable.

200
00:10:45,444 --> 00:10:48,954
What was, there's something your
dad might've been particular about?

201
00:10:49,504 --> 00:10:53,914
Kelly: Neatness to my dad is very
important and as is important in the back

202
00:10:53,914 --> 00:10:55,374
of house as it is the front of house.

203
00:10:55,414 --> 00:10:59,194
So we've always had that idea that
if families want to come and help

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care for a loved one they can.

205
00:11:00,424 --> 00:11:03,164
So our premises need to
be just as beautiful.

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00:11:03,835 --> 00:11:07,345
We're at the back of the house, as people
would refer to it, but we're a mortuary,

207
00:11:07,555 --> 00:11:11,295
as I said, where the most important thing
happens is the care of a deceased person.

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00:11:11,805 --> 00:11:15,105
So if families want to come in and
be part of that care, we need to

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00:11:15,115 --> 00:11:16,825
have that presentable all the time.

210
00:11:16,825 --> 00:11:19,964
So vehicles are, you know,
always beautifully clean.

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00:11:19,964 --> 00:11:25,735
So it's very much about having a
really presentable place for people

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00:11:25,735 --> 00:11:27,375
to come and feel comfortable.

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00:11:27,735 --> 00:11:29,365
And that feeling of comfort.

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00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:31,120
resounded.

215
00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:34,410
So making sure people have time with you.

216
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:37,150
That was, he said, never
rush an arrangement.

217
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,450
So that was really,
really important for him.

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00:11:40,770 --> 00:11:46,089
And I think that's why even now
he still works at 75, mainly as a

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00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:50,130
celebrant for families because he
knows so many people and people know

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00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:51,449
him and feel comfortable with him.

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So I think those two things were always
Just take your time with the family,

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get to know them if we don't already.

223
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And of course, a lot of the times we
do, but really spend that time with them

224
00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:06,230
and make sure they feel as comfortable
as possible in a really uncomfortable

225
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environment, like in place in your life.

226
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It's really, you know, it
can be really traumatic.

227
00:12:10,749 --> 00:12:11,839
It can be really sad.

228
00:12:11,839 --> 00:12:16,074
So when people come in, you want them
to feel As comfortable as possible.

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Catherine: And what are the things
or the qualities that you find in

230
00:12:21,874 --> 00:12:25,425
the service that, that you deliver
that you believe are the most

231
00:12:25,425 --> 00:12:29,935
important things for when dealing with
families and organizing a funeral?

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00:12:31,574 --> 00:12:34,924
Kelly: I think some of those things
do come with experience and we'll

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talk about the benefit of having
an association behind you because

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00:12:38,275 --> 00:12:41,155
if you don't know something, I've
got a plethora of people around the

235
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country I can ask, which is amazing.

236
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And I've done that many, many times.

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But I think what, what I offer,
what, what our family offers.

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is I think genuine care.

239
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We're really here to help make it
a positive experience, even when

240
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it's the most awful experience
you ever have to go through.

241
00:13:02,075 --> 00:13:05,694
When the funeral experience itself
is positive, and by that I mean a

242
00:13:05,695 --> 00:13:09,485
family feels autonomous, they feel
in control of their decisions.

243
00:13:10,044 --> 00:13:14,504
Sometimes that's saying to them,
just wait, don't make that decision

244
00:13:14,504 --> 00:13:17,595
just yet, because you can tell
They're not quite ready to.

245
00:13:18,205 --> 00:13:22,505
Guiding them through, you know, it's,
it's funny, I think about what we call

246
00:13:22,505 --> 00:13:25,215
as feudal directors, I think, gee,
we're not really directing anything.

247
00:13:25,315 --> 00:13:29,664
We're just supporting, guiding
where necessary, you know, offering

248
00:13:29,664 --> 00:13:31,054
choices, that sort of thing.

249
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So I think just having that gentle
guidance, teasing out information,

250
00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:40,620
When sometimes that's really difficult,
sometimes families come to you and they

251
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can't even speak let alone make decisions.

252
00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:46,559
So, you know, gently asking
them a few questions.

253
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,089
Say, well, what did dad enjoy doing?

254
00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:49,890
How did he spend his time?

255
00:13:49,890 --> 00:13:51,979
What did he like doing with
his, you know, his hands?

256
00:13:51,989 --> 00:13:53,400
Was he crafty?

257
00:13:53,419 --> 00:13:55,519
Did he like to go camping?

258
00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:57,469
You know, did mum like to sew?

259
00:13:57,469 --> 00:13:58,779
Did she listen to music?

260
00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:04,689
And then from that, those conversations
are the most important Where was mum born?

261
00:14:04,689 --> 00:14:06,999
Where did dad go to school?

262
00:14:07,339 --> 00:14:11,879
Those things are obviously necessary,
but to me just finding a little bit about

263
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:17,199
who we're looking after helps everything,
even when there's no funeral service.

264
00:14:17,744 --> 00:14:19,594
We need to know who we're looking after.

265
00:14:19,805 --> 00:14:22,604
We give that information to
whoever's going to be caring for

266
00:14:23,025 --> 00:14:24,165
their loved one in the mortuary.

267
00:14:24,165 --> 00:14:28,265
Say, Oh, I heard Beryl
loved to sing jazz music.

268
00:14:28,265 --> 00:14:31,805
So we might play jazz music in the
mortuary while we're completing that care.

269
00:14:32,074 --> 00:14:36,005
So to me, those little touch
points that some people will

270
00:14:36,005 --> 00:14:37,634
never ever be aware that we do.

271
00:14:38,305 --> 00:14:41,415
But I think that's, that's our point
of difference because we know it

272
00:14:41,415 --> 00:14:42,594
in ourselves, that's what we do.

273
00:14:44,375 --> 00:14:47,454
Catherine: That's lovely to think
that, uh, there'll be, you know,

274
00:14:47,485 --> 00:14:52,564
jazz music being played, uh, when
someone's being taken care of, uh, you

275
00:14:52,564 --> 00:14:56,885
know, I, I really love that, that it
has a very nice imagery in my mind.

276
00:14:57,455 --> 00:15:02,335
And you mentioned earlier that you
ensure that the back of house is

277
00:15:02,335 --> 00:15:04,135
just as tidy as the front of house.

278
00:15:04,645 --> 00:15:08,405
In case someone wants to care for
their, their, their loved one.

279
00:15:08,795 --> 00:15:11,575
Was that referring to
in the, in the mortuary?

280
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Kelly: Yeah, so whilst we have to
protect the privacy of other people

281
00:15:15,184 --> 00:15:18,545
in our care, so sometimes that care
we might bring the person out to our

282
00:15:18,814 --> 00:15:22,894
chapel area, have that really nice
and intimate for a family to come in

283
00:15:23,275 --> 00:15:25,385
and help complete care, so washing.

284
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,579
Dressing, hair, makeup, shaving.

285
00:15:28,829 --> 00:15:32,560
You know, families want to be part
of that care, they absolutely can.

286
00:15:32,579 --> 00:15:35,579
Because we always say, we're
looking after them for you.

287
00:15:35,630 --> 00:15:39,269
So you let us know as much or
as little as you want us to do.

288
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:44,089
We go into quite, quite detailed
conversations about, well, you

289
00:15:44,089 --> 00:15:47,715
know, I mean, Ups, many of us
ladies are very particular about

290
00:15:47,715 --> 00:15:49,785
our little chin hair that pokes up.

291
00:15:49,785 --> 00:15:53,335
So we might, you know, we're moving
facial hair, little things like that.

292
00:15:53,545 --> 00:15:54,625
Do you want to paint our nails?

293
00:15:54,885 --> 00:15:56,275
Touch up a bit of color on their hair.

294
00:15:56,275 --> 00:15:57,885
And they're like, do you
go to that much trouble?

295
00:15:57,885 --> 00:16:01,265
I said, if this was important
to them, absolutely we do.

296
00:16:01,354 --> 00:16:03,835
Because, and then some of them
go, Oh no, they didn't wear it.

297
00:16:03,884 --> 00:16:08,144
They were very low key, you know,
just a lovely, just lovely and clean.

298
00:16:08,144 --> 00:16:08,704
That's fine.

299
00:16:08,704 --> 00:16:11,344
So it's, it's lovely to
have those conversations.

300
00:16:11,344 --> 00:16:12,634
So they know that that care.

301
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:14,780
That's how we look at that care.

302
00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:19,969
It's so important and keeping with what
that person did during their life, because

303
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:24,060
to me it's still part of their loved one's
lives to know that that's being done.

304
00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:27,454
So, those conversations
are really important.

305
00:16:27,555 --> 00:16:30,375
I think over time we've
got better at that.

306
00:16:30,415 --> 00:16:35,015
I think when I first started, people
didn't, maybe weren't curious,

307
00:16:35,335 --> 00:16:37,335
um, didn't ask the questions.

308
00:16:37,335 --> 00:16:40,014
And now we know sometimes you just
have to lead into them a little bit

309
00:16:40,015 --> 00:16:42,204
and then opens up that conversation.

310
00:16:42,205 --> 00:16:45,055
So, again, just, just like what
you're doing with the website,

311
00:16:45,055 --> 00:16:48,165
Catherine, it's just opening up
the conversations and, and letting

312
00:16:48,165 --> 00:16:49,355
people know that they can ask more.

313
00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:52,900
Whatever they want, you know, there's
no such thing as a silly question.

314
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:55,610
Catherine: Exactly.

315
00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:56,300
Exactly.

316
00:16:56,620 --> 00:17:01,289
And have you noticed that people over
time, as you said, you know, 30 years

317
00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:07,270
ago, it would be very different to, you
know, the things that you notice now.

318
00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:11,529
Have you noticed that people
are actively seeking to be more

319
00:17:11,529 --> 00:17:15,189
involved or more personalized in
their service as time's gone on?

320
00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:19,900
Kelly: I think the important thing we
always have to remember is Everyone is

321
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:24,430
different, so that level of participation
is very different for every family, and

322
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,250
within each family, it's very different.

323
00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:30,120
So some families will be wondering,
Oh, we definitely don't want a viewing.

324
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,650
And then you can sort of see maybe the
brothers over you going, Oh, I'm not,

325
00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:36,249
I'm not saying no to that just yet.

326
00:17:36,849 --> 00:17:41,040
So it's really trying to tease out
what people are comfortable with.

327
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:44,310
I mean, you know, looking at
the research that we did through

328
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:48,430
MacRindle, I think about 50
percent of people die in hospital.

329
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,859
So that care is there.

330
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:54,610
out of our hands a lot of the time before
they, before people even come to us.

331
00:17:54,629 --> 00:17:59,249
Whereas even when I started that those
statistics weren't so high, people were

332
00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:05,189
still at home a lot longer and would
have died at home more than they do now.

333
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:09,360
So that care's a little bit different,
but knowing You know, having those

334
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,750
conversations with family to say, you
can still have a loved one at home.

335
00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:14,360
That's perfectly okay.

336
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:19,170
But be mindful of these changes
that happens after a person dies.

337
00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:23,379
Just be made aware of the biological
changes that would happen within us

338
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,580
that are completely natural and normal.

339
00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:28,389
And if we can assist with
that, that's, you know, okay.

340
00:18:28,449 --> 00:18:33,330
Or bringing them into our care, just slow
that, that process down a little bit.

341
00:18:33,985 --> 00:18:37,524
To allow for people to come and see
them, you know, a few days later.

342
00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:40,975
So, understanding that
process is really important.

343
00:18:41,004 --> 00:18:43,084
You know, just say, oh yeah,
your loved one can be home.

344
00:18:43,435 --> 00:18:47,104
But not having that understanding that
that means maybe a viewing might not

345
00:18:47,104 --> 00:18:48,925
be possible on day seven or eight.

346
00:18:50,084 --> 00:18:53,020
Because, you There's no
refrigeration or other means that,

347
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:54,850
um, just slows that process down.

348
00:18:54,850 --> 00:18:58,540
So understanding what a family needs
from the get go is really important.

349
00:18:58,540 --> 00:19:01,930
And having those conversations around,
do you want to be part of their care?

350
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:03,130
Sometimes it's not.

351
00:19:04,229 --> 00:19:08,789
And again, some children
wouldn't necessarily want

352
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:10,000
to bathe their own parents.

353
00:19:10,009 --> 00:19:11,439
That's something that wouldn't be done.

354
00:19:11,439 --> 00:19:14,160
And the parent themselves would
not be comfortable with that.

355
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,550
Some people are very open to that.

356
00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:19,739
So my aunties looked after my
nan because they're very kind.

357
00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:23,140
you know, in nursing and that was
very much part of their family.

358
00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:24,540
So we've always done that.

359
00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:27,400
But for some families that
wouldn't be appropriate.

360
00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:31,069
So they're very happy for us to
do it, but they like the fact

361
00:19:31,069 --> 00:19:32,479
that we talk to them about it.

362
00:19:32,489 --> 00:19:35,619
So they know, and they're
saying yes to this, no to that.

363
00:19:35,689 --> 00:19:37,009
Yes, mum would have liked that.

364
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:38,299
No, she wouldn't have liked that.

365
00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:43,020
So they're more involved in that care
rather than just We don't discuss it,

366
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,450
just provide clothing and that's it.

367
00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:50,590
So I think them understanding that, you
know, everyone in our care is prepared

368
00:19:50,849 --> 00:19:52,250
as if you are coming in for a viewing.

369
00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:55,370
That's been done since my
grandfather was in the business.

370
00:19:56,115 --> 00:20:00,004
He started, so that's always
been very an important thing

371
00:20:00,015 --> 00:20:01,335
that we discuss with families.

372
00:20:02,855 --> 00:20:06,324
Catherine: And I know there was
such diversity even with my own

373
00:20:06,325 --> 00:20:08,885
family, so I totally appreciate that.

374
00:20:09,165 --> 00:20:13,425
And for me personally, I know that
it's depended on my relationship

375
00:20:13,434 --> 00:20:17,789
with my loved one who's died as well,
whether it's someone that I, I've lost.

376
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,580
I do want to actually have
a viewing of, or I, I don't.

377
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:26,389
So, uh, yeah, I can imagine that
there is a lot of, a lot of diversity

378
00:20:26,399 --> 00:20:30,760
in, in that process of, of working
out what family wants to do.

379
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:36,040
Now, Kelly, you're the second woman to
be elected national president of the

380
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:38,090
Australian Funeral Directors Association.

381
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:39,920
Tell me how that came about.

382
00:20:41,149 --> 00:20:44,129
Kelly: Our family business has
always been a member of the AFDA

383
00:20:44,479 --> 00:20:46,320
and it's just something that.

384
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:52,060
I've grown up with, Dad's always talked
about the importance of being part

385
00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:53,500
of something bigger than ourselves.

386
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,620
And I think that's for a lot of reasons,
he's certainly always instilled in us the

387
00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:04,199
need to give back to the industry and to
each other and to the community at large.

388
00:21:04,199 --> 00:21:07,560
So a lot of the time that work is,
you know, we're ambassadors for

389
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,970
grieving families in lots of ways.

390
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:12,360
Sometimes we're the ones saying,
this is what grieving families need,

391
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:13,384
or this is what they don't need.

392
00:21:13,705 --> 00:21:14,065
don't need.

393
00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:18,845
So being part of an association that
can have some influence, particularly

394
00:21:18,845 --> 00:21:21,044
with government, is really important.

395
00:21:21,054 --> 00:21:26,135
So, you know, having that ability
to lobby government for important

396
00:21:26,145 --> 00:21:28,605
things is good as a collective.

397
00:21:29,304 --> 00:21:34,284
But to me, being part of an association
like the AFDA, which is the largest in

398
00:21:34,504 --> 00:21:39,245
Australia, and we're in every state and
territory, means I've got A wealth of

399
00:21:39,245 --> 00:21:44,165
information at a phone call that I can,
and I've done this many times as dad has,

400
00:21:44,495 --> 00:21:47,054
we learn from each other all the time.

401
00:21:47,105 --> 00:21:51,215
And you'll be at a meeting or some
function and someone will talk

402
00:21:51,265 --> 00:21:55,155
about it and go, Oh, and then two
months later, that person had the

403
00:21:55,155 --> 00:21:56,975
same situation or something similar.

404
00:21:57,165 --> 00:21:59,814
I'm just going to give them
a ring and just ask them what

405
00:21:59,814 --> 00:22:01,074
they did in that situation.

406
00:22:01,074 --> 00:22:05,865
Because as much as people think funerals
are a traditional industry and I

407
00:22:05,905 --> 00:22:08,815
don't know, it's, we've heard the term
cookie cutter and everything, I think,

408
00:22:08,825 --> 00:22:12,385
goodness me, they don't work in it if
I say that, because it's certainly not.

409
00:22:12,845 --> 00:22:13,755
It's so different.

410
00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:16,145
And there's, you know, we
love those curly questions.

411
00:22:16,145 --> 00:22:18,605
We think, oh, okay, haven't
heard that one before.

412
00:22:18,605 --> 00:22:19,994
So what do we do?

413
00:22:20,035 --> 00:22:22,034
And not just thinking we know everything.

414
00:22:22,374 --> 00:22:25,854
And I remember my dad saying,
years and years ago, the minute

415
00:22:25,855 --> 00:22:30,004
you think you know everything, Move
on, get out, because you never know

416
00:22:30,004 --> 00:22:33,145
everything, because every family that
we deal with teaches us something.

417
00:22:33,364 --> 00:22:35,024
And that's the beauty
of what we do, I think.

418
00:22:35,365 --> 00:22:38,825
So association's been really
important to our family business,

419
00:22:39,135 --> 00:22:42,885
and to us as individuals, as a
wonderful support for our business.

420
00:22:43,354 --> 00:22:49,154
But I think, I think personally, as
much as anything else as well, a lot

421
00:22:49,154 --> 00:22:50,754
of people would never understand.

422
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:54,120
The responsibility you bear
doing this sort of work.

423
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:59,750
And there's so much involved that
you could never speak about to other

424
00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:03,880
people because that would be a breach
of privacy or something like there's

425
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,480
lots of things I don't even take home
to mind because you're protecting the

426
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,564
privacy of the people you're looking
after, but sometimes to be able to.

427
00:23:10,735 --> 00:23:12,685
Unload a little bit to people who get it.

428
00:23:13,305 --> 00:23:15,505
Sometimes you don't have to
say, you just go, Oh, I had this

429
00:23:15,505 --> 00:23:20,034
situation and it was a funeral for,
you know, a nine month old baby.

430
00:23:20,164 --> 00:23:22,105
And you don't, they just know.

431
00:23:22,505 --> 00:23:23,365
They just know.

432
00:23:23,514 --> 00:23:27,714
And to have that support, I'm telling
you, that's why I think I'm doing

433
00:23:27,714 --> 00:23:29,254
what I'm doing 34 years later.

434
00:23:29,335 --> 00:23:33,194
Because I've had this from the
very earliest time of my life.

435
00:23:33,525 --> 00:23:36,995
career with dad, he introduced
me to people so he would, I would

436
00:23:36,995 --> 00:23:38,685
develop my own network of support.

437
00:23:39,225 --> 00:23:41,425
And we do that all the time.

438
00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:45,215
And it's, it's quite powerful,
I think, and just the learning

439
00:23:45,215 --> 00:23:47,295
from each other is amazing.

440
00:23:49,245 --> 00:23:53,785
Catherine: And when, How did
it come about that you, were

441
00:23:53,785 --> 00:23:55,415
you nominated for president?

442
00:23:55,995 --> 00:23:58,965
How does that process happen
within the association?

443
00:24:00,085 --> 00:24:02,625
Kelly: We have divisional
councils as well.

444
00:24:02,635 --> 00:24:04,635
So each state and territory
have their own division.

445
00:24:04,655 --> 00:24:08,475
So where you could be an active member
and go to all the education training

446
00:24:08,475 --> 00:24:09,975
sessions, functions, et cetera.

447
00:24:10,465 --> 00:24:15,094
Then you might nominate for council just
to sit around your divisional council.

448
00:24:15,095 --> 00:24:15,945
That's how I started.

449
00:24:15,945 --> 00:24:17,004
Dan had always done that.

450
00:24:17,014 --> 00:24:19,985
So it felt like a natural
progression for me.

451
00:24:20,114 --> 00:24:24,295
And again, that's, You're taking
time out of your business for the

452
00:24:24,465 --> 00:24:27,005
wider industry and for other members.

453
00:24:27,375 --> 00:24:28,745
So that seemed like a natural progression.

454
00:24:28,745 --> 00:24:33,485
So you just get nominated to council
and we have in Victoria, it's divided

455
00:24:33,485 --> 00:24:37,075
up so you have a really good cross
section of regional, rural and metro

456
00:24:37,345 --> 00:24:40,425
members, both large and small businesses.

457
00:24:40,435 --> 00:24:44,574
So you have a really good cross
section and from that council, they

458
00:24:44,665 --> 00:24:46,634
nominate an executive on that council.

459
00:24:46,655 --> 00:24:48,034
So you have a divisional precedent.

460
00:24:48,499 --> 00:24:50,489
The senior vice president, et cetera.

461
00:24:51,209 --> 00:24:55,149
And so then you'll do things, and so I've
served in that role as well as Victorian

462
00:24:55,149 --> 00:24:59,800
president, which I absolutely love because
to me, that's the divisional councils.

463
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:01,479
That's the whole face things.

464
00:25:01,489 --> 00:25:04,849
That's meeting with BDM and the
coroner's court and the department

465
00:25:04,849 --> 00:25:09,249
of health and really making sure they
understand, you know, what we need to

466
00:25:09,270 --> 00:25:11,959
do and how we need to support families.

467
00:25:11,999 --> 00:25:13,884
So that's all those sort
of really key things.

468
00:25:14,235 --> 00:25:16,754
everyday things that affect
our business every day.

469
00:25:17,245 --> 00:25:21,375
And then from your divisional council,
you can get nominated to national council.

470
00:25:21,375 --> 00:25:24,405
So again, that's representatives
from every state and territory,

471
00:25:24,775 --> 00:25:27,895
both large and small businesses,
both metro and regional members.

472
00:25:27,905 --> 00:25:33,085
So that's a council of 15 people
from around the country, and you get

473
00:25:33,085 --> 00:25:34,805
nominated to go onto that council.

474
00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:36,165
So I'm representing Victoria.

475
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:38,770
I'm not representing T.

476
00:25:38,770 --> 00:25:38,949
J.

477
00:25:38,949 --> 00:25:40,100
Scott and Sunday Our Business.

478
00:25:40,650 --> 00:25:42,630
I'm representing our Victorian members.

479
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:46,420
And you really have to make sure you're
wearing the right hat because I'm not

480
00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:48,520
there for the benefit of my business.

481
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,610
I'm there for the benefit
of all of our membership.

482
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:55,795
So, then, once you're on National Council,
I was lucky enough to be nominated to go

483
00:25:55,795 --> 00:25:57,455
on to the executive and, and here I am.

484
00:25:59,025 --> 00:26:00,085
And when were you,

485
00:26:00,105 --> 00:26:02,175
Catherine: when were you elected
to the role of president?

486
00:26:03,065 --> 00:26:04,205
Kelly: Uh, just over a year ago.

487
00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,085
So I'm halfway through my two year term.

488
00:26:07,145 --> 00:26:07,975
Catherine: Fantastic.

489
00:26:08,465 --> 00:26:14,265
And tell me just on that process of
being elected and just to give me an idea

490
00:26:14,265 --> 00:26:17,494
of the, the makeup of the association.

491
00:26:17,884 --> 00:26:22,364
So is it predominantly male, female mix?

492
00:26:22,614 --> 00:26:23,954
What, what sort of?

493
00:26:24,644 --> 00:26:29,154
Kelly: It's a good, again, I've come
from a very traditionally male dominated

494
00:26:29,154 --> 00:26:33,445
industry, and I think someone was
talking about a later study, I think it

495
00:26:33,445 --> 00:26:38,254
might have been in New Zealand, to say
majority of staff in funeral businesses

496
00:26:38,274 --> 00:26:41,834
now are female, and we're certainly
seeing that even at management level.

497
00:26:42,689 --> 00:26:44,040
And at ownership level.

498
00:26:44,050 --> 00:26:46,340
So around the council, it's a good mix.

499
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,850
Um, but yeah, not that long
ago it was, it was all men.

500
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,839
So it's great to see that diversity at
the moment and national council executive.

501
00:26:55,139 --> 00:26:56,800
Um, there are three women.

502
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,479
So the next two presidents
after me are female.

503
00:27:00,179 --> 00:27:01,139
So it's.

504
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:02,540
Yeah, it's great to see.

505
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,700
Yeah, but you know, I'm it's all
about equality and having that

506
00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:10,369
great balance is my way of thinking.

507
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,840
Catherine: And do you, what sort of
qualities do you think that you bring as?

508
00:27:17,629 --> 00:27:23,480
I suppose a woman and also someone
from a regional funeral home, uh,

509
00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:25,510
to the role at a national level.

510
00:27:27,699 --> 00:27:29,719
Kelly: That's a great question,
Catherine, because I think everyone

511
00:27:29,719 --> 00:27:32,169
has their pros and cons probably.

512
00:27:32,189 --> 00:27:35,699
And probably what I, I lack in business
acumen, I always call myself a funeral

513
00:27:35,699 --> 00:27:40,650
director first as much as we're running
a business here, probably one thing I

514
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:42,659
offer is that I'm still at the coalface.

515
00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:44,350
I'm still arranging funerals.

516
00:27:44,794 --> 00:27:49,354
I'm still cleaning hearses, you know,
so I know what it's like for, for staff.

517
00:27:49,504 --> 00:27:53,254
I know what it's like to run a business,
to be responsible for staff, to make

518
00:27:53,254 --> 00:27:57,404
sure our business is sustainable, that we
can employ them next week and that we're

519
00:27:57,404 --> 00:27:58,864
here for our families and our community.

520
00:27:58,864 --> 00:28:01,235
So, you know, you've got
all different levels.

521
00:28:01,725 --> 00:28:07,715
And I think just having Probably
years of experience, but also an

522
00:28:07,715 --> 00:28:10,185
incredible support from my family.

523
00:28:10,285 --> 00:28:15,065
And it started with my dad, who never,
ever made me feel like, Oh, it's going

524
00:28:15,065 --> 00:28:16,365
to be harder for you because you're fair.

525
00:28:16,395 --> 00:28:19,995
It was like, this is what you're doing
off you go, you know, and, and he's been a

526
00:28:19,995 --> 00:28:22,345
great support where, you know, very lucky.

527
00:28:22,555 --> 00:28:25,065
I'm sure not everyone has this at
a family business and I belong to

528
00:28:25,065 --> 00:28:26,485
family business Australia as well.

529
00:28:26,495 --> 00:28:29,975
So I know this doesn't always happen,
but I've got a dad who always says,

530
00:28:29,975 --> 00:28:32,554
you know, You know, I'll come with
him with an idea that, yeah, great.

531
00:28:32,555 --> 00:28:33,115
Yeah, go with it.

532
00:28:33,265 --> 00:28:34,935
You know, fantastic.

533
00:28:34,975 --> 00:28:35,585
That was easy.

534
00:28:35,585 --> 00:28:40,104
So, you know, he's really supportive,
really encouraging, loves to see both

535
00:28:40,104 --> 00:28:44,775
my brother and I, you know, going in,
you know, keeping the business going

536
00:28:45,195 --> 00:28:48,084
and, and contributing to AFDA as well.

537
00:28:48,135 --> 00:28:50,655
So he loves to see that, um, involvement.

538
00:28:50,665 --> 00:28:51,425
He really thinks.

539
00:28:51,925 --> 00:28:53,685
It's bigger than, it's bigger than us.

540
00:28:55,544 --> 00:28:59,815
Catherine: And what direction or
improvements would you like to see under

541
00:28:59,815 --> 00:29:02,145
your, your term as president of AFDA?

542
00:29:03,754 --> 00:29:04,885
Kelly: Oh, another great question.

543
00:29:04,885 --> 00:29:09,274
I think I'm really passionate about
learning and about continued learning.

544
00:29:09,274 --> 00:29:10,065
So as.

545
00:29:10,409 --> 00:29:14,010
My dad said we always had that idea
that you'd never stop learning.

546
00:29:14,050 --> 00:29:18,440
And we've just introduced the
FDA has just introduced it online

547
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,550
funeral learning hub, because a lot
of our members are really remote.

548
00:29:21,889 --> 00:29:26,989
So to get to in person training is near
on impossible and very costly, you know,

549
00:29:26,989 --> 00:29:29,509
to get to major cities or regional cities.

550
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:33,289
So this is an Australian
first it's world class.

551
00:29:33,665 --> 00:29:36,675
Um, that's in the UK
and New Zealand as well.

552
00:29:36,685 --> 00:29:39,844
And it's only exclusively
available to our AGM members.

553
00:29:39,925 --> 00:29:44,075
And it is an incredible collection
of training and learning that

554
00:29:44,075 --> 00:29:45,975
we can do together as members.

555
00:29:45,985 --> 00:29:51,675
So my, my goal over this time
is to We've now got that in

556
00:29:51,915 --> 00:29:53,195
and everyone can get onto it.

557
00:29:53,205 --> 00:29:57,565
Now it's encouraging every member to
utilise that because, you know, it's a

558
00:29:57,575 --> 00:30:01,822
massive resource that we've put a lot
of time and money into for our members.

559
00:30:01,822 --> 00:30:03,301
That's what they asked for.

560
00:30:03,301 --> 00:30:05,075
They wanted more
opportunities for learning.

561
00:30:05,075 --> 00:30:08,919
But how do we engage every single
member, no matter where they are?

562
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:15,220
No matter what size they are, and it's
amazing to see the uptake of people

563
00:30:15,270 --> 00:30:20,610
already onto that funeral learning
home, so it's, it's just incredible and

564
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:25,270
it's just a wonderful way to, you know,
share information and, you know, whilst

565
00:30:25,270 --> 00:30:28,200
we all offer that, that funeral care.

566
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,640
We do all do it in different ways.

567
00:30:30,670 --> 00:30:33,800
So we all have our own policies and
procedures in our own business, but

568
00:30:33,810 --> 00:30:38,260
there's some things that are just
universal and that, you know, AFTA, we

569
00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:43,130
have our code of ethics and conduct and
those sort of things are just reiterated

570
00:30:43,150 --> 00:30:47,940
time and time again, why we're here, why
these standards are so, so important.

571
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,160
And when those standards aren't
there, because we're not a

572
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,770
regulated industry, you know, this
is where the cracks appeared, you

573
00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:57,605
know, can, can, um, come about.

574
00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:58,905
So it's really important.

575
00:30:59,525 --> 00:31:04,305
All our staff, all our teams know
the importance of why you're an AFDA

576
00:31:04,355 --> 00:31:07,655
member because we have to maintain
these standards at all costs.

577
00:31:08,175 --> 00:31:10,355
So our families get the
best experience possible.

578
00:31:12,105 --> 00:31:14,995
Catherine: I saw in, uh, I think
it was one of the research papers

579
00:31:14,995 --> 00:31:19,045
you did with McRindle about the
fact that your members had actually

580
00:31:19,385 --> 00:31:21,365
requested professional development.

581
00:31:21,365 --> 00:31:23,635
It was something that was, I
think, one of the highest things

582
00:31:23,645 --> 00:31:25,415
that they, they were after.

583
00:31:25,495 --> 00:31:26,845
I think it was about 22.

584
00:31:27,275 --> 00:31:29,695
And I have to say when I.

585
00:31:30,030 --> 00:31:33,740
First was reaching out to
industry associations last year.

586
00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:39,680
Uh, I was really impressed, I think,
coming from a state government background.

587
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,080
I'm very familiar with compliance training
and and the importance of compliance

588
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,650
training on and completing our modules.

589
00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:48,750
I think we used to do about 13 per year.

590
00:31:49,455 --> 00:31:51,635
But it really is important.

591
00:31:51,645 --> 00:31:56,515
But yet only the flip side of that,
I've also, you know, my husband

592
00:31:56,515 --> 00:31:58,085
runs a decorative painting business.

593
00:31:58,085 --> 00:32:01,005
So I understand the
difficulty of that compliance.

594
00:32:02,035 --> 00:32:05,995
when you're actually a small business
because you can't implement it yourself.

595
00:32:05,995 --> 00:32:07,005
It's very difficult.

596
00:32:07,345 --> 00:32:11,205
So I was super impressed when
I saw that platform last year.

597
00:32:11,715 --> 00:32:18,185
Uh, and yeah, it, it, it just seems, you
know, providing a need that, you know,

598
00:32:18,195 --> 00:32:20,985
would be very costly to actually get if it

599
00:32:20,985 --> 00:32:21,775
Kelly: wasn't there.

600
00:32:22,325 --> 00:32:25,385
Well, most, most of our members
would never be able to implement.

601
00:32:25,655 --> 00:32:29,415
Probably even, you know, anything like
that for sure, and even our largest

602
00:32:29,415 --> 00:32:32,325
members, you know, have already got
things in place, but they're loving

603
00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:36,455
it because we're learning from a big,
again, from a bigger source of, of

604
00:32:36,455 --> 00:32:40,665
information, and it's a lot of shared
information, a lot of, um, people that are

605
00:32:40,665 --> 00:32:42,475
contributing to that funeral learning hub.

606
00:32:43,165 --> 00:32:47,005
are people from our membership who have
got great experience in certain areas

607
00:32:47,005 --> 00:32:50,665
and and listening to their stories like
you're just not ticking a box you're

608
00:32:50,665 --> 00:32:54,575
actually getting this person telling
you about this experience they've had

609
00:32:54,965 --> 00:33:00,558
and for some people who don't get to
those in person um opportunities to be

610
00:33:00,558 --> 00:33:04,430
able to learn and listen from people
who are willing to support and help you.

611
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:06,730
And as I said, and they could
just as easily turn around

612
00:33:06,730 --> 00:33:07,790
and offer them something.

613
00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:09,490
So it's never just a one way street.

614
00:33:09,930 --> 00:33:12,560
And I think the learning
hub will only get stronger.

615
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,800
I mean, it's started with so many
modules, it's going to be added

616
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,430
to over the, over the years.

617
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:21,620
And we're already responding to people
going, Oh, I'd love to see this on it.

618
00:33:21,790 --> 00:33:27,485
So it's just, I'm, I'm just so thrilled
about it because it is, One of the

619
00:33:27,525 --> 00:33:31,375
biggest things our members asked for
was opportunities and COVID really

620
00:33:31,385 --> 00:33:34,405
shut a lot of that down because so
much of our training was in person.

621
00:33:34,955 --> 00:33:39,595
So to come up with that, and that's thanks
to our CEO, Dale Gilson, who's done a

622
00:33:39,595 --> 00:33:41,365
lot of research into what we could do.

623
00:33:41,365 --> 00:33:44,425
And as I said, a lot of people went,
all this is, it's increased our, you

624
00:33:44,425 --> 00:33:45,995
know, the cost of being a member.

625
00:33:46,755 --> 00:33:50,415
You know, when I look at what it
costs to give my staff this excellent

626
00:33:50,425 --> 00:33:54,325
training for our team, as I said,
it's negligible compared to if I had

627
00:33:54,325 --> 00:33:55,775
to try and implement that myself.

628
00:33:55,785 --> 00:33:59,995
So for all of our members, I think it's
such an, it's such a valuable tool.

629
00:34:01,495 --> 00:34:06,355
Catherine: And tell me what, what is
involved in the membership of, and joining

630
00:34:06,405 --> 00:34:08,355
Australian Funeral Directors Association?

631
00:34:08,615 --> 00:34:10,595
You know, what do you do?

632
00:34:10,785 --> 00:34:13,975
I, you mentioned a little bit
about advocating earlier on.

633
00:34:14,295 --> 00:34:16,895
Obviously we've touched on
professional development.

634
00:34:17,225 --> 00:34:19,515
Why is membership important?

635
00:34:21,185 --> 00:34:23,195
Kelly: The A& T is a member association.

636
00:34:23,195 --> 00:34:24,915
So it's there to support members.

637
00:34:24,985 --> 00:34:25,585
And I think.

638
00:34:26,405 --> 00:34:28,925
As you said, there's lots
of parts to what we do.

639
00:34:28,945 --> 00:34:31,745
I mean, we're here to promote
the value of the funeral.

640
00:34:32,655 --> 00:34:34,705
And a lot of people think, oh,
that's having a big service.

641
00:34:34,715 --> 00:34:36,405
And it doesn't necessarily mean that.

642
00:34:36,405 --> 00:34:38,885
I think COVID showed us that
even when they're beautiful and

643
00:34:38,885 --> 00:34:43,235
small and intimate, they could
be just as powerful and special.

644
00:34:43,635 --> 00:34:47,735
But it is acknowledging the fact that
For thousands of years people have

645
00:34:47,735 --> 00:34:51,455
gathered when someone's died and there
is a reason why, that importance of

646
00:34:51,455 --> 00:34:53,735
acknowledging when someone has died.

647
00:34:54,185 --> 00:34:57,565
And I don't often say sometimes it's
not someone we love, sometimes it's

648
00:34:57,575 --> 00:35:00,945
someone we've had a really difficult
relationship with, but some things

649
00:35:00,945 --> 00:35:05,610
need to be shared and acknowledged
at a time of loss and grief.

650
00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:11,790
So we try and promote the value of that
coming together, you know, and even when

651
00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:18,450
we, we're doing what we call a no service
cremation, we always have a viewing or

652
00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:21,520
a vigil with a family the night before,
so they have time to connect with their

653
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,230
loved one in their physical presence.

654
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:26,870
Not, if they don't want a viewing,
that's fine, but just sitting with the

655
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:29,210
coffin, I think, can be just as helpful.

656
00:35:29,220 --> 00:35:33,460
So having those opportunities
together, to have that support.

657
00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:38,670
I think I read, I think it was on one
of those pages, it was the National

658
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:43,395
COVID 19 Bereavement study they did
afterwards, you know, said something

659
00:35:43,395 --> 00:35:46,595
about when we were restricted, we couldn't
have family and friends around us.

660
00:35:46,885 --> 00:35:50,105
You know, how people felt
that lack of support and felt

661
00:35:50,105 --> 00:35:51,445
like it didn't even happen.

662
00:35:52,615 --> 00:35:57,105
And I've had, we know this, I've seen
this over years, I've had, I remember

663
00:35:57,105 --> 00:36:01,095
one lady distinctly coming in to see
me, she came to pick up her husband's,

664
00:36:01,235 --> 00:36:02,695
her loved one's cremated remains.

665
00:36:02,735 --> 00:36:05,100
And, She said, I said, Oh, here you go.

666
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:06,460
It doesn't even feel real.

667
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:08,440
No one's come up to me
because no one knows.

668
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:09,840
He didn't want a funeral.

669
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,130
It just means now I don't get any support.

670
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:16,080
And I thought there's got to be
something said around that because

671
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:20,730
we need, people need that, I think
someone's excuse to say I'm so sorry.

672
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,850
But if they don't see it, or it's
not advertised, or there's nothing,

673
00:36:24,130 --> 00:36:26,430
it's really hard to say, oh, perhaps
they don't want to talk about it.

674
00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:28,060
Perhaps we better not mention it.

675
00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:30,360
And it's just like it never happened.

676
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,870
And I think we need to be
really careful of that.

677
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:36,330
And I think COVID showed us that
because when families couldn't do

678
00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:42,345
what they wanted to do, the extra
layer, of grief and trauma, I think.

679
00:36:42,625 --> 00:36:44,695
I think it won't be understood
for many years to come.

680
00:36:44,785 --> 00:36:45,975
I really believe that.

681
00:36:45,975 --> 00:36:47,955
So we talk about the value of the funeral.

682
00:36:47,955 --> 00:36:48,985
That's really important.

683
00:36:49,095 --> 00:36:50,905
And we talk about having
professional standards.

684
00:36:50,935 --> 00:36:53,155
As I mentioned, it's not
a regulated industry.

685
00:36:53,155 --> 00:36:57,155
So people could start up with literally
no premises and maybe a vehicle.

686
00:36:57,555 --> 00:37:01,275
And people don't understand that
when it's a low cost funeral.

687
00:37:01,275 --> 00:37:01,365
I think.

688
00:37:01,775 --> 00:37:06,405
And that's why, you know, when we look at
the infrastructure, we, we have to provide

689
00:37:06,405 --> 00:37:07,575
for the families we're looking after.

690
00:37:07,645 --> 00:37:10,935
They would expect nothing less in
our community that they are top notch

691
00:37:11,165 --> 00:37:12,665
and the best we could possibly offer.

692
00:37:13,265 --> 00:37:15,915
Those sorts of things, of
course, have a cost behind them.

693
00:37:16,295 --> 00:37:20,915
But if you don't have that infrastructure
or staff or the education around it,

694
00:37:21,255 --> 00:37:22,555
of course your costs could be lower.

695
00:37:22,555 --> 00:37:27,955
So it's understanding what your, you
know, those standards must be maintained.

696
00:37:27,975 --> 00:37:30,635
We must offer the families
the very, very best.

697
00:37:31,035 --> 00:37:31,665
of care.

698
00:37:31,835 --> 00:37:34,305
And that means having all that
infrastructure behind us to

699
00:37:34,305 --> 00:37:37,435
support us, to make sure we're
doing it as well as possible.

700
00:37:37,455 --> 00:37:41,085
Also as safely as possible,
you know, not just for us, but

701
00:37:41,095 --> 00:37:42,245
the people we're looking after.

702
00:37:42,255 --> 00:37:42,605
I think that's.

703
00:37:43,095 --> 00:37:44,025
Absolutely imperative.

704
00:37:44,035 --> 00:37:47,825
So I think having those certain standards
of premises, vehicle, equipment,

705
00:37:48,415 --> 00:37:51,625
you must have continued develop,
professional development to be a member.

706
00:37:52,005 --> 00:37:55,175
So there are some future directors who
couldn't be members of ours because they

707
00:37:55,175 --> 00:37:57,125
would not be able to meet our standards.

708
00:37:57,585 --> 00:38:01,355
But as I said, we're the largest
in, in Australia because most

709
00:38:01,355 --> 00:38:02,624
people want to be part of that team.

710
00:38:02,795 --> 00:38:06,755
Um, self regulation and to make
sure there are some standards.

711
00:38:07,335 --> 00:38:09,315
Probably the wider community
aren't aware of that.

712
00:38:09,455 --> 00:38:12,555
That's our job to let people
know what the difference is.

713
00:38:13,345 --> 00:38:18,335
But I think it's the intangible benefit
of membership that people will, you

714
00:38:18,335 --> 00:38:22,255
don't have to say you're an AFDA
Because our standards are so high,

715
00:38:22,385 --> 00:38:24,055
that's because we're an AFTA member.

716
00:38:24,245 --> 00:38:26,175
We, we're rising to standards.

717
00:38:26,415 --> 00:38:29,795
We're looking at each other and they say,
oh we've just got this new vehicle and

718
00:38:29,795 --> 00:38:32,645
this great lifter and oh that's fantastic.

719
00:38:32,995 --> 00:38:34,195
Great, we'll look at doing that.

720
00:38:34,235 --> 00:38:35,625
That looks like a really good option.

721
00:38:36,025 --> 00:38:40,274
So I think those sort of things
make us better, better carers.

722
00:38:41,295 --> 00:38:44,655
for the community in what we do
because we're part of something bigger.

723
00:38:46,435 --> 00:38:53,265
Catherine: And I would think that also if
you're an organization wanting to strive

724
00:38:53,285 --> 00:38:59,485
for best practice, it would also in turn
have a flow on effect for your staff as

725
00:38:59,485 --> 00:39:02,065
well, working within those organizations.

726
00:39:02,065 --> 00:39:02,515
Absolutely.

727
00:39:02,515 --> 00:39:09,220
Kelly: Because again, we have support with
things like HR and OH& S and You know, as

728
00:39:09,220 --> 00:39:12,700
I said before, Catherine, I'm, I'm a field
director, I'm not a business manager, I'm

729
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:15,150
not a HR manager, I'm not an OHS manager.

730
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,830
And how do you keep on top of all those
updates and changes in regulations

731
00:39:20,830 --> 00:39:24,630
and requirements and, you know, all
the things that you have to be aware

732
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:28,090
of when you're managing one person,
let alone a hundred people, and making

733
00:39:28,090 --> 00:39:31,800
sure they come to work every day
in a safe and healthy environment.

734
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:34,330
So those sorts of things
are really important.

735
00:39:34,690 --> 00:39:37,155
And The AFTA helps us be aware of that.

736
00:39:37,165 --> 00:39:40,705
All those things that come through, we're,
you know, provided that information.

737
00:39:40,715 --> 00:39:44,465
So I don't know how you keep up
with all of those changes otherwise.

738
00:39:44,475 --> 00:39:48,555
So it's, it's really amazing that
we've got that support to make sure

739
00:39:48,555 --> 00:39:52,625
that our staff come to the best place
that we can offer them to work in

740
00:39:52,625 --> 00:39:54,139
this, you know, in this industry.

741
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:58,180
Catherine: And you mentioned that,
uh, there's some organizations

742
00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:00,900
that you know that would not be
able to qualify for membership.

743
00:40:01,330 --> 00:40:05,790
So, there's obviously some sort of
vetting process that you go through

744
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,790
Kelly: when someone
applies for membership?

745
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:09,080
That's right.

746
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,490
So, they have to complete a PAV
inspection, Premises Vehicle

747
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:14,560
Inspection, uh, Equipment Inspection.

748
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,855
And, so, it's just Basic things, as I
said, that we self regulate, but it's

749
00:40:19,855 --> 00:40:23,135
the way a mortuary is set up to make
sure it can be completely washed down

750
00:40:23,135 --> 00:40:27,575
and infection control is, you know, at
the highest level it possibly can be.

751
00:40:28,095 --> 00:40:31,655
Our vehicles are beautifully maintained
and they're proper vehicles with

752
00:40:31,655 --> 00:40:34,795
proper safety barriers between,
you know, the front and the back.

753
00:40:34,795 --> 00:40:39,195
They're not just an ordinary station
wagon or four wheel drive that I've

754
00:40:39,195 --> 00:40:43,225
heard some people use, their own
family vehicle for that sort of thing.

755
00:40:43,235 --> 00:40:44,795
And, you know, for
professional businesses.

756
00:40:45,205 --> 00:40:46,235
That's not good enough.

757
00:40:46,455 --> 00:40:51,755
You know, we need to have those safety
measures in place, again, not just

758
00:40:51,755 --> 00:40:53,789
to protect our staff, to protect
the person that we're dealing with.

759
00:40:53,790 --> 00:40:59,120
We have to make sure that everything we
have, the structures that we use are the

760
00:40:59,130 --> 00:41:03,980
very best that we can possibly provide
and everything's beautifully clean and,

761
00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:07,380
and we're looking after infection control.

762
00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:09,220
All of those things are so imperative.

763
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,980
So, you know, there's some people
that just don't have those resources,

764
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,690
they'll be able to meet those standards.

765
00:41:17,215 --> 00:41:20,305
Catherine: And something that you
mentioned that really surprised me,

766
00:41:20,325 --> 00:41:25,495
actually shocked me when I found out that
there's no regulation in the industry.

767
00:41:26,625 --> 00:41:29,945
Kelly: No, apart from things like,
obviously we have to complete births,

768
00:41:29,945 --> 00:41:33,375
deaths and marriages registration
to the, you know, requirements and,

769
00:41:33,605 --> 00:41:37,585
and those sorts of things, but there
isn't as far as what does a funeral

770
00:41:37,585 --> 00:41:39,655
director have to have in their premises?

771
00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:40,405
There's nothing.

772
00:41:40,465 --> 00:41:42,529
There's no licensing or anything.

773
00:41:42,620 --> 00:41:44,740
Or, you know, requirements.

774
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:52,160
So it's, it's impossible to, you know,
see what all of these are offering or what

775
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:56,730
they have, you know, and, and sometimes
you're having refrigeration space isn't a

776
00:41:56,730 --> 00:41:58,570
mortuary, yet they'll call it a mortuary.

777
00:41:58,670 --> 00:42:03,760
You need a space to look after someone
as beautifully and as carefully as

778
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,170
possible in a secure, intimate environment
that's very safe, that protects the

779
00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:10,990
privacy of the people in your care.

780
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,470
So those sorts of things,
I sound really bicey.

781
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,250
But sometimes those people, some
people don't have those resources.

782
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:19,820
So it's, it's really sad.

783
00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:21,670
I'd love to see that regulation.

784
00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:25,040
Um, and that's something that as an
association, you know, I'd love to look

785
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,590
at that, that even if, if we helped
to, you know, provide that, because

786
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,100
all our members already have these.

787
00:42:30,495 --> 00:42:33,565
more than probably standards
overseas with this license.

788
00:42:33,575 --> 00:42:35,485
Our standards are above and beyond that.

789
00:42:35,485 --> 00:42:40,285
So I'd love to see us all held
to an account, or at least all

790
00:42:40,285 --> 00:42:43,045
funeral directors must be part
of a professional association.

791
00:42:43,045 --> 00:42:45,545
So that means there's
some level of checking.

792
00:42:45,820 --> 00:42:51,350
That there's a check of some course,
even if it's by peers, I think

793
00:42:51,350 --> 00:42:52,460
that would be really important.

794
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,020
Catherine: And at this stage, if
people are wanting to find a funeral

795
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:02,820
director in their local area, that is
a member of your association, so they

796
00:43:02,850 --> 00:43:06,930
can, you know, feel more comfortable
that there is some sort of, you know,

797
00:43:06,970 --> 00:43:09,170
best practice standard being upheld.

798
00:43:09,540 --> 00:43:11,250
That's available on your website,

799
00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:11,670
Kelly: isn't it?

800
00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:12,450
It is.

801
00:43:12,450 --> 00:43:15,690
You just go to the AFDA website
and it's that it's a find a

802
00:43:15,690 --> 00:43:16,680
funeral director function.

803
00:43:17,095 --> 00:43:20,235
We put in the town or the postcode
and it will give you, you know,

804
00:43:20,245 --> 00:43:22,045
options for however many kilometres.

805
00:43:22,055 --> 00:43:26,555
So, you know, you can still get that
option to compare, to ring around, to make

806
00:43:26,555 --> 00:43:32,605
sure it's not just the person, it's not
just about cost, it's also about feel.

807
00:43:32,625 --> 00:43:35,395
Is that the right person that's going
to be looking after me and my family and

808
00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:36,815
this will be looking after our loved one.

809
00:43:37,135 --> 00:43:38,845
So it's really good to have those options.

810
00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:40,855
So it's a really good place to start.

811
00:43:40,855 --> 00:43:44,695
So, you know, but at the very least
we have to have maintained these.

812
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:46,350
Standards to be a member.

813
00:43:47,950 --> 00:43:52,580
Catherine: And I know that it's very
comprehensive, the process that you,

814
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:54,810
you have outlined on your website.

815
00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:59,060
I know when I was writing my guide, you
know, you know, my loved one has died.

816
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:00,200
What do I do now?

817
00:44:00,450 --> 00:44:05,055
I didn't even bother going in to
detail about funerals because it's very

818
00:44:05,055 --> 00:44:07,350
comprehensively covered on your website.

819
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:11,450
So I know that that's a great resource
and we'll, we'll put a link to that,

820
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:14,330
uh, in the, the show notes as well.

821
00:44:14,330 --> 00:44:14,380
Um,

822
00:44:14,730 --> 00:44:15,610
Kelly: Oh, fantastic.

823
00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:18,980
Look, I think, if nothing else, just
like what you're doing, Catherine,

824
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:24,460
information is powerful and it's
so important at a time like this.

825
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,760
And if we can look for that
information before that time comes.

826
00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:32,030
even better because you're
thinking a little bit more clearly.

827
00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:35,250
You've probably got more
time to make those decisions.

828
00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:39,040
Just even looking at all the options,
you know, we always say when people ring

829
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,290
up, just, Oh, can we have a funeral here?

830
00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:42,670
There's no obligation.

831
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:44,680
I'd love to send this
information out to you.

832
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:47,410
Even if you don't do anything
else, you will have more

833
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:48,600
information than you do now.

834
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,950
And So when that time comes, you'll
at least have a starting point.

835
00:44:52,270 --> 00:44:56,090
And I think that's absolutely key
because it makes, it helps families

836
00:44:56,090 --> 00:45:00,750
feel empowered and in control at a
time that you don't feel in control.

837
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,220
Someone you love has died, you
feel completely out of control.

838
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:04,830
You can't control that situation.

839
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:08,795
But we need to be able to have You
know, all the options in front of

840
00:45:08,795 --> 00:45:10,325
you without it being overwhelming.

841
00:45:10,405 --> 00:45:13,715
And that's the fine point is if I
gave you all the options available,

842
00:45:13,715 --> 00:45:16,405
when someone's passed away, the
arrangement would take a week.

843
00:45:16,765 --> 00:45:22,165
So it's trying to ascertain how
much information do we offer

844
00:45:22,255 --> 00:45:23,885
so we don't overwhelm a family.

845
00:45:24,315 --> 00:45:24,895
in grief.

846
00:45:25,145 --> 00:45:29,265
So if you can look at that information
before a person passes, even if it's

847
00:45:29,265 --> 00:45:32,885
just for yourself, even if you, all
you do is think, right, if I don't,

848
00:45:32,885 --> 00:45:34,285
what would I do for my funeral?

849
00:45:34,485 --> 00:45:36,795
And start looking at and having
those conversations with families.

850
00:45:37,045 --> 00:45:41,465
The more those conversations are just
easy conversations, the better it is,

851
00:45:41,515 --> 00:45:45,185
you know, when the time comes, because
then families are saying, Oh, daddy's

852
00:45:45,185 --> 00:45:46,295
talking about that all the time.

853
00:45:46,355 --> 00:45:48,345
You know, we know exactly what he wants.

854
00:45:49,125 --> 00:45:49,765
The difference.

855
00:45:50,155 --> 00:45:52,635
That Max is palpable.

856
00:45:54,175 --> 00:45:55,195
Catherine: It really is.

857
00:45:55,245 --> 00:46:00,575
You know, I, I liken it to when you
have to have the, the sex conversation

858
00:46:00,575 --> 00:46:05,165
with children, you know, how they always
say to you that, you know, you should

859
00:46:05,165 --> 00:46:09,745
always have these conversations when
you're in the car driving somewhere.

860
00:46:10,085 --> 00:46:12,805
So you've got them in a
contained environment.

861
00:46:14,185 --> 00:46:17,655
You can have the hard conversation
and they can't get out of the car.

862
00:46:17,845 --> 00:46:19,015
Yes, exactly.

863
00:46:19,015 --> 00:46:19,879
for having me.

864
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:23,280
I think we should be doing the
same thing in relation to having

865
00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:27,870
conversations about death, because I
think that of recent incidents that

866
00:46:27,870 --> 00:46:34,460
we saw in Sydney over the weekend,
things aren't always where we, we, we

867
00:46:34,460 --> 00:46:36,430
expect them to be when someone dies.

868
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:39,550
Unfortunately, it can happen at any time.

869
00:46:39,620 --> 00:46:43,460
I had a car accident five years
ago on my way to work and it

870
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:44,990
changed my life completely.

871
00:46:45,810 --> 00:46:50,350
So you never know when that one
incident's going to happen, that you

872
00:46:50,350 --> 00:46:53,330
need to act in one way or another.

873
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:59,660
Uh, and I think that as you said, you
know, the, the majority of people only

874
00:46:59,660 --> 00:47:04,170
sort of seem to make those decisions or
have those conversations when they're

875
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:09,725
feeling very vulnerable and they're in
a very, uh, tight situation, perhaps

876
00:47:09,725 --> 00:47:15,195
timeline wise, uh, and it would be great
if we could just see people have those

877
00:47:15,215 --> 00:47:21,315
conversations in the car on the way to
school or, you know, doing the grocery

878
00:47:21,315 --> 00:47:22,605
Kelly: shopping or having dinner.

879
00:47:23,715 --> 00:47:24,305
Absolutely.

880
00:47:24,305 --> 00:47:26,495
I mean, it is an old age, but It's true.

881
00:47:26,505 --> 00:47:29,605
Death is a part of life and
we, we, we are surrounded by it

882
00:47:29,605 --> 00:47:32,865
and, and we all experience it,
you know, and that's the thing.

883
00:47:32,875 --> 00:47:37,715
And I think, you know, often when people
come to us and say, Oh, you know, dad

884
00:47:37,715 --> 00:47:41,825
didn't want a funeral and you sort of
tease a bit of information out about that.

885
00:47:42,335 --> 00:47:46,825
And often what that means is, they
didn't have a great experience at a

886
00:47:46,825 --> 00:47:51,405
funeral, maybe years ago, and they're
trying to protect their family from that.

887
00:47:51,415 --> 00:47:54,315
So they go, Oh, you don't have
to do that, I'll protect you.

888
00:47:54,315 --> 00:47:56,365
So I'm going to just give you
permission not to have anything.

889
00:47:56,985 --> 00:48:00,695
But then of course the family feel
obliged to do exactly what dad

890
00:48:00,695 --> 00:48:04,745
wanted, but it's not necessarily
the right thing for either.

891
00:48:05,705 --> 00:48:08,345
Because sometimes it's that
protectiveness, I see it in

892
00:48:08,345 --> 00:48:11,485
parents all the time, that
wanting to protect their children.

893
00:48:12,085 --> 00:48:16,215
The children who might be 60 or 70
themselves, but still want to protect

894
00:48:16,215 --> 00:48:18,395
them from the reality of death.

895
00:48:19,165 --> 00:48:22,295
And of course we can't, you
know, it's, it stays there and

896
00:48:22,295 --> 00:48:26,145
unfortunately, you know, like
anything, you can't, you can't bury it.

897
00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:30,315
It is, it'll come up and having
those conversations around, well,

898
00:48:30,495 --> 00:48:33,414
you know, if your mum or dad
says, Oh, I don't want anything.

899
00:48:33,585 --> 00:48:35,355
Well, can you tell me why that is?

900
00:48:35,395 --> 00:48:40,415
Because, you know, I can see the value
in being us all together as a family,

901
00:48:40,415 --> 00:48:44,695
so I just want to understand your
reason why, and would you, would you be

902
00:48:44,695 --> 00:48:48,005
upset if we did want to do something,
even if it's something really simple?

903
00:48:48,605 --> 00:48:51,805
And there's still a lot of people around
that still think you have to have.

904
00:48:52,380 --> 00:48:55,360
A big advertised funeral,
still in a church.

905
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:57,270
People go, oh, do I have
to have it in a church?

906
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,430
Do you have to advertise
it in the newspaper?

907
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:00,630
No, you don't.

908
00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:03,990
A funeral, you can call it a gathering,
if you like, just to get away from

909
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:06,490
that, the, the older terminology.

910
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:11,350
We often say, we're having a gathering of
family and friends on this day, and we're

911
00:49:11,350 --> 00:49:12,910
going to share some beautiful stories.

912
00:49:13,180 --> 00:49:16,750
And it's very different to having a wake.

913
00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:18,720
You know, people go, oh, we'll
just have a wake afterwards.

914
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:18,924
It's very different.

915
00:49:19,255 --> 00:49:22,185
Often, what's missed is, number
one, your presence with the

916
00:49:22,185 --> 00:49:23,385
deceased for the last time.

917
00:49:24,165 --> 00:49:30,405
And I think the stories and the sharing
of things doesn't come out as easily if

918
00:49:30,405 --> 00:49:32,165
it doesn't start with something first.

919
00:49:32,545 --> 00:49:34,295
Someone's got to start that process.

920
00:49:34,715 --> 00:49:38,205
You know, when that's not being done
well at the service or the gathering,

921
00:49:38,415 --> 00:49:40,195
when they go back to the wake afterwards.

922
00:49:40,375 --> 00:49:42,735
Oh, that's stimulated a
whole lot of conversations.

923
00:49:42,745 --> 00:49:45,105
Like you can see it and we often
go to them, of course, because

924
00:49:45,105 --> 00:49:48,445
we know so many people and think,
oh, it's just chat, chat, chat.

925
00:49:48,475 --> 00:49:49,655
And I love that.

926
00:49:49,685 --> 00:49:53,945
I think that's the most amazing part
about bringing people together for a

927
00:49:53,945 --> 00:49:56,455
funeral is having that camaraderie.

928
00:49:56,455 --> 00:50:00,295
You're all sharing something really
special on that day, as hard as it

929
00:50:01,205 --> 00:50:02,945
It is actually a very special day.

930
00:50:02,975 --> 00:50:07,575
So having those conversations around
why, why you want certain things,

931
00:50:07,575 --> 00:50:11,025
why you don't want certain things
is just as important as I don't want

932
00:50:11,025 --> 00:50:13,085
a service or I do want a service.

933
00:50:13,595 --> 00:50:14,385
Why is that?

934
00:50:14,425 --> 00:50:17,695
And let's work around that to make
sure we've got something because

935
00:50:17,865 --> 00:50:20,285
there'll be one member of your
family, if you've got three kids,

936
00:50:20,305 --> 00:50:21,565
they'll all want something different.

937
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,730
If you've got six kids, I'll all
want something different, guaranteed.

938
00:50:26,830 --> 00:50:28,960
Catherine: And, and
that's, that's very true.

939
00:50:29,010 --> 00:50:34,170
And so, you know, that, is that one of
the biggest challenges that you've seen

940
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:40,650
as a funeral director over the years when
families are, you know, dealing with the

941
00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:45,980
loss of a loved one and they're having
to plan a funeral is not knowing or?

942
00:50:47,070 --> 00:50:53,040
Kelly: I would say the hardest thing
or the biggest challenge In working

943
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,160
funerals is family dynamics, and

944
00:50:59,610 --> 00:51:03,200
it's interesting because I usually
preface when I'm talking to a family

945
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,240
to say, like, we're in a safe place.

946
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,810
Every family has their
stuff, including our own.

947
00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:13,420
So what we need to do to work out what
we're going to do for your mum or your

948
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:16,830
dad is work out what everyone needs,
because you'll all have a different life.

949
00:51:17,225 --> 00:51:20,485
idea, and it's really important
we listen to each other.

950
00:51:20,665 --> 00:51:25,175
So, you know, making sure that we try
and involve everyone that needs to

951
00:51:25,175 --> 00:51:29,165
be involved, obviously, it's not on
for everyone, but those key people.

952
00:51:29,695 --> 00:51:32,605
But family dynamics, I think,
can be the trickiest thing.

953
00:51:32,615 --> 00:51:38,915
It can really One death can bring
up grief about a whole lot of other

954
00:51:38,915 --> 00:51:43,565
things, about the relationship itself,
about a lack of fear of a relationship.

955
00:51:43,975 --> 00:51:49,255
It's, it's fraught with lots of issues,
and they can come to a head because

956
00:51:49,275 --> 00:51:52,915
grief, when it's there, gives you
an excuse for being quite emotional.

957
00:51:53,575 --> 00:51:56,665
So it sort of lets the floodgates
open a lot of the time, so to speak.

958
00:51:57,775 --> 00:52:01,865
And sometimes I think the hardest
part of what we do is making sure

959
00:52:01,865 --> 00:52:03,195
that we're listening, listening.

960
00:52:03,905 --> 00:52:07,185
And we're capturing, trying to
capture what everyone needs.

961
00:52:07,205 --> 00:52:10,075
Even when you usually have to
listen to the executor, that's

962
00:52:10,215 --> 00:52:11,065
who we have to listen to.

963
00:52:11,065 --> 00:52:12,895
They ultimately make the right decision.

964
00:52:13,465 --> 00:52:17,125
So with your work, Catherine, in
preparing, I, my one piece of advice

965
00:52:17,125 --> 00:52:19,825
before you even get to the funeral
is choose the right executors.

966
00:52:20,305 --> 00:52:24,385
Don't choose them just because it's
the eldest, son or this person,

967
00:52:24,875 --> 00:52:28,505
you need to choose the person who
you know will do what you want.

968
00:52:28,955 --> 00:52:32,985
And I think that's the most important
thing because that's fraught with,

969
00:52:33,175 --> 00:52:37,685
fraught with a lot of angst and
danger, I think, at a time of loss.

970
00:52:38,105 --> 00:52:41,175
And I think that's another impetus
to people saying we don't want a

971
00:52:41,175 --> 00:52:43,435
funeral because they don't want
to have to deal with that stuff.

972
00:52:43,745 --> 00:52:45,375
And that's a real loss.

973
00:52:46,005 --> 00:52:47,305
Yeah, for everyone involved.

974
00:52:50,075 --> 00:52:54,855
Catherine: And as an industry association,
you mentioned that you're, you have

975
00:52:54,855 --> 00:53:00,495
the ability to meet with the coroner's
court when you're at a state level and

976
00:53:00,545 --> 00:53:05,485
other bodies, but how do you measure
trends within the funeral industry?

977
00:53:05,485 --> 00:53:09,425
We've touched on it a little bit and,
and how do you go through advocating

978
00:53:09,485 --> 00:53:11,165
for change within the industry?

979
00:53:12,855 --> 00:53:18,035
Kelly: We commissioned our own research
starting in 2021 through McRindle Research

980
00:53:18,465 --> 00:53:23,185
and we had members contribute to that
research over a period of 15 months, which

981
00:53:23,185 --> 00:53:28,665
was a huge commitment, but it meant that
members from all over Australia, metro,

982
00:53:28,875 --> 00:53:33,585
regional, rural, the most remote of our
members contributed to that data because

983
00:53:33,585 --> 00:53:36,615
we wanted to have an understanding of,
number one, what our members face, what

984
00:53:36,615 --> 00:53:40,545
are they dealing with, what are the most
important things that are affecting their

985
00:53:40,555 --> 00:53:42,765
ability to do their work with families.

986
00:53:43,245 --> 00:53:46,195
So that's sort of, we need
to understand those trends.

987
00:53:46,195 --> 00:53:50,165
We need to understand the challenges
and the opportunities for families

988
00:53:50,165 --> 00:53:51,515
and sharing that information.

989
00:53:51,525 --> 00:53:55,055
So that information came out
in three different reports.

990
00:53:55,395 --> 00:53:59,310
Uh, one was about even, The average
cost of funerals, what people are

991
00:53:59,310 --> 00:54:03,480
choosing, where people have died, all
those sorts of really important things.

992
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,330
Because, you know, as I said,
back when I started, most of our

993
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,030
transfers, you know, into our care
would have been from a family home.

994
00:54:11,350 --> 00:54:14,710
Whereas now our resources need to go, we
might be going to Melbourne or Bendigo,

995
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:18,100
you know, an hour away, two hours
away, because they're in healthcare.

996
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:23,935
So that impacts how we are able to engage
with their families and time needed.

997
00:54:23,935 --> 00:54:27,865
So you have to know those trends to
be able to resource your business

998
00:54:28,125 --> 00:54:31,835
properly so that you can help the
families to the best of your ability.

999
00:54:32,175 --> 00:54:35,915
We also looked at, um, the work
family, the funeral managers do

1000
00:54:35,915 --> 00:54:38,085
with families after the funeral.

1001
00:54:38,095 --> 00:54:40,325
So what sort of aftercare is involved?

1002
00:54:40,335 --> 00:54:42,455
How do we contribute to our communities?

1003
00:54:43,035 --> 00:54:47,145
Because Just like our family,
we've been in cartons since the E.

1004
00:54:47,145 --> 00:54:47,165
D.

1005
00:54:47,165 --> 00:54:47,175
O.

1006
00:54:47,175 --> 00:54:47,195
T.

1007
00:54:47,535 --> 00:54:49,925
Uh, we've been here
since 1938 in business.

1008
00:54:50,285 --> 00:54:52,545
Most of us belong to small communities.

1009
00:54:52,585 --> 00:54:57,105
And even those larger members in,
in the metro areas, they have their

1010
00:54:57,625 --> 00:54:59,575
suburbs that are their communities.

1011
00:54:59,585 --> 00:55:01,535
So they know those staff there.

1012
00:55:01,845 --> 00:55:04,725
When people say, oh, they're a big
member, I say, the people that I

1013
00:55:04,725 --> 00:55:06,765
speak to are those large companies.

1014
00:55:07,145 --> 00:55:08,185
It's just like me and you.

1015
00:55:08,225 --> 00:55:11,795
They care just as much, they
love their job just as much,

1016
00:55:11,805 --> 00:55:13,115
and they get as much out of it.

1017
00:55:13,135 --> 00:55:18,155
So, you know, those mini communities
within suburbs are also very present.

1018
00:55:18,395 --> 00:55:22,395
So it's important that, you know,
we're also part of the community.

1019
00:55:22,755 --> 00:55:26,005
And those trends, it was really
important to see those trends, the

1020
00:55:26,015 --> 00:55:30,535
importance of doing that, and to see
the feedback you get from families when

1021
00:55:30,535 --> 00:55:32,475
they see you working in a community.

1022
00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:35,290
Above and beyond the funeral
care that you provide.

1023
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:40,990
Catherine: And tell me about
the advocation side of things.

1024
00:55:41,970 --> 00:55:44,950
Kelly: So we do a lot of advocating,
again, not just brand members.

1025
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:50,750
For example, during COVID 19, you
know, and we had all those frontline

1026
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:55,330
workers, which did, I still can't even
imagine the things they were faced with.

1027
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:59,800
Unfortunately, we weren't considered,
uh, as essential service workers,

1028
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:03,640
and yet, We couldn't leave deceased
people in nursing homes, could we?

1029
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:10,730
Yet, we had to provide full P P E
V, like you saw, nurses in wear, but

1030
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:14,090
at our own expense, which, I think
that people are still recovering

1031
00:56:14,090 --> 00:56:15,780
financially from, from those costs.

1032
00:56:15,830 --> 00:56:18,710
We didn't get any help from the
government, and we didn't certainly

1033
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:22,830
get any help with making that,
the transportation easy, because

1034
00:56:22,830 --> 00:56:24,880
we're going all over the place.

1035
00:56:24,930 --> 00:56:29,700
We're going interstate, moving across
borders, going from, you know, what the

1036
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:31,460
Ring of Steel was like in Melbourne.

1037
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:35,590
So coming from regional, we had to have
papers written out every time and stop

1038
00:56:35,590 --> 00:56:37,110
near Sunbury to get into Melbourne.

1039
00:56:37,110 --> 00:56:41,310
And then on the way out again, you
know, all those things we just, so

1040
00:56:41,310 --> 00:56:45,740
we're advocated for what we were doing,
which was absolutely essential that

1041
00:56:45,740 --> 00:56:49,120
we looked after people as, as quickly.

1042
00:56:49,420 --> 00:56:54,390
And, and with that dedication
that, Not waiting for days

1043
00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:55,940
because we didn't have PPE.

1044
00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:58,330
So we're swapping around among members.

1045
00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:01,130
Whoever had some would send it
and you'd be helping each other.

1046
00:57:01,150 --> 00:57:03,130
So you could continue
to support the family.

1047
00:57:03,130 --> 00:57:07,850
So we needed to advocate to government
to say, we are also essential workers.

1048
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,590
Yes, we're private businesses, but so are
the healthcare providers in lots of ways.

1049
00:57:12,910 --> 00:57:16,800
And we need some support because
without us, We couldn't keep

1050
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,300
deceased people in nursing homes.

1051
00:57:18,490 --> 00:57:21,280
We needed to bring them into
our care so that families could

1052
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,920
start the funeral process.

1053
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:28,120
So, having those sorts of conversations
are really, really important.

1054
00:57:28,340 --> 00:57:32,130
Just about, with BDM, providing
death certificates to families, we

1055
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:35,850
have a great relationship with BDM
in Victoria and they're really open,

1056
00:57:35,850 --> 00:57:37,100
so we meet with them regularly.

1057
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,740
We talk about all That's
births, deaths, and marriages.

1058
00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:42,030
Sorry, births, deaths, and marriages.

1059
00:57:42,030 --> 00:57:42,270
Yeah.

1060
00:57:42,530 --> 00:57:45,030
So we talk about all those pain points,
you know, where we're registering a

1061
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:47,090
death or delays in death certificates.

1062
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:50,180
So now we've got great people at
BDM, which is, you know, a big

1063
00:57:50,180 --> 00:57:53,420
group of people where can anyone
say, look, can you just follow up?

1064
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:56,790
This poor lady really needs this death
certificate because she can't do this.

1065
00:57:56,790 --> 00:57:58,470
And, and they are wonderful.

1066
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,830
So having that advocacy,
having those relationships.

1067
00:58:01,515 --> 00:58:02,365
are really important.

1068
00:58:02,375 --> 00:58:05,085
So it's not just about making complaints
or saying you're not doing this, it's

1069
00:58:05,085 --> 00:58:09,785
about building a relationship to say we're
on the same team, we're on the same side,

1070
00:58:09,995 --> 00:58:14,535
we actually both want this result for this
family, but it's easier for us to ring

1071
00:58:14,535 --> 00:58:18,164
them than a grieving family to ring them
to complain about where that density is.

1072
00:58:18,595 --> 00:58:22,535
So, having that as being, you know, a
conduit to that, those conversations

1073
00:58:22,535 --> 00:58:23,905
is really, really important.

1074
00:58:23,915 --> 00:58:26,155
So, cemeteries and
crematoria, another one.

1075
00:58:26,165 --> 00:58:29,765
You know, we're in Victoria in
WA, all of our cemeteries and

1076
00:58:29,765 --> 00:58:33,545
crematoria are government controlled,
run by boards of management.

1077
00:58:34,045 --> 00:58:37,575
We have no control over their fees, so
when people say, oh, the cost of funerals,

1078
00:58:37,615 --> 00:58:40,385
you know, a lot of that is, especially
in metropolitan Melbourne, they're,

1079
00:58:40,385 --> 00:58:44,175
they're, they're, they're Burial costs are
increasing because of the lack of land.

1080
00:58:44,485 --> 00:58:45,875
We have no control over those.

1081
00:58:45,885 --> 00:58:51,385
So just appealing to that, to say to
some families, burial isn't a choice.

1082
00:58:51,465 --> 00:58:56,035
It's what they have to do because it's
a religious or a cultural requirement.

1083
00:58:56,395 --> 00:58:59,935
So they don't get a choice over
spending 12, 000 on a grave.

1084
00:59:00,425 --> 00:59:01,665
They have to do that.

1085
00:59:01,985 --> 00:59:03,595
It's imperative to them.

1086
00:59:03,595 --> 00:59:04,565
Their family are all there.

1087
00:59:05,295 --> 00:59:08,395
So it's not a choice, it's, oh, that's
what you could afford to choose.

1088
00:59:08,625 --> 00:59:14,785
For some, they will crowdfund to make
sure that that one very important piece

1089
00:59:14,865 --> 00:59:16,965
of that farewell can be delivered.

1090
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,410
taken, you know, and can be done.

1091
00:59:19,410 --> 00:59:22,770
So, you know, those sorts of
things we need to advocate to on

1092
00:59:22,770 --> 00:59:26,690
behalf of families to say, how
can we make that more realistic?

1093
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,700
Because, you know, when we talk about
the cost of funerals, I think it's

1094
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:33,220
a really important conversation for
people's, people to have, and don't

1095
00:59:33,250 --> 00:59:35,530
be shy about having a conversation.

1096
00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:38,990
Just like all information around
funerals and what you can do, it's

1097
00:59:39,010 --> 00:59:42,730
really important to understand what
your options are, what your choices are.

1098
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,300
And what they cost.

1099
00:59:44,620 --> 00:59:48,570
And when you talk about the
increasing cost of funerals as

1100
00:59:48,570 --> 00:59:51,230
a funeral industry, that's right
across the board at the moment.

1101
00:59:51,230 --> 00:59:53,550
In every industry, you
know, costs are rising.

1102
00:59:53,650 --> 00:59:55,440
It is the cost of living crisis.

1103
00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:58,930
And because funerals tap into so
many different industries, you know,

1104
00:59:59,210 --> 01:00:02,794
it's hospitality, it's manufacturing,
it's florists, it's musicians,

1105
01:00:02,794 --> 01:00:04,182
it's audio visual specialists.

1106
01:00:04,182 --> 01:00:09,930
It's, we can tap into sometimes 12 or 10
or 12 different supplies for one funeral.

1107
01:00:10,270 --> 01:00:12,070
So all of their costs have increased.

1108
01:00:12,485 --> 01:00:14,985
And, you know, when you look at
a whole of the funeral, that can

1109
01:00:14,985 --> 01:00:20,735
sometimes incorporate 10 or, 10 or 12
different supplies on top of what we

1110
01:00:20,735 --> 01:00:24,665
do, you know, as part of our care for
a deceased person and their family.

1111
01:00:24,665 --> 01:00:28,555
So, it's really important
that families understand that.

1112
01:00:28,795 --> 01:00:29,835
What costs are?

1113
01:00:30,385 --> 01:00:34,665
Having those discussions around
what do you need us to do?

1114
01:00:34,705 --> 01:00:37,045
We can do as much or as
little as you need us to do.

1115
01:00:37,065 --> 01:00:40,365
So some families, as we talked about
before, with the care of a loved one, some

1116
01:00:40,465 --> 01:00:45,005
people are very hands on, love to come
in, even if it's just doing mum's makeup,

1117
01:00:45,065 --> 01:00:46,625
you know, they want to be part of it.

1118
01:00:46,945 --> 01:00:50,785
For some people that might be, they put
together their own orders of service.

1119
01:00:51,085 --> 01:00:53,525
They put together their
own PowerPoint slideshow.

1120
01:00:53,555 --> 01:00:55,560
They live stream themselves, you know.

1121
01:00:55,930 --> 01:00:58,100
If they can't do it, we can help them.

1122
01:00:58,100 --> 01:00:59,910
We can get a service provider to do that.

1123
01:01:00,250 --> 01:01:03,080
But that's, there's lots
of ways to reduce costs.

1124
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:08,070
If families, you know, are more hands
on, they can lead their own service

1125
01:01:08,110 --> 01:01:09,710
as a celebrant if they want to.

1126
01:01:09,980 --> 01:01:11,220
You know, I wouldn't recommend that.

1127
01:01:11,250 --> 01:01:14,690
You know, I think sometimes it's
really good to be on the day, just

1128
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:18,320
focusing on your loved one, not
focusing on the logistics of how

1129
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:19,650
everything's going to come together.

1130
01:01:20,170 --> 01:01:21,440
I think there'll always be a need.

1131
01:01:22,245 --> 01:01:25,865
For some professional help,
guidance and support on that day

1132
01:01:25,895 --> 01:01:29,735
to give people that out, you know,
and take that pressure off them.

1133
01:01:29,975 --> 01:01:33,845
It's hard enough getting up to do a
eulogy, let alone running a service

1134
01:01:33,875 --> 01:01:37,395
and being, you know, making sure
everyone's turned up, number one,

1135
01:01:37,445 --> 01:01:40,485
when we get in there an hour and a
half before the service, you know, has

1136
01:01:40,485 --> 01:01:44,665
the priest arrived, you know, are the
musicians there, are they set up, does

1137
01:01:44,665 --> 01:01:48,905
the TV work, all those sorts of things
that we do, you know, well ahead of

1138
01:01:48,905 --> 01:01:50,555
time and the day is running up to it.

1139
01:01:50,555 --> 01:01:51,860
So, you know, but.

1140
01:01:51,860 --> 01:01:56,660
If people know what their choices
are and what's involved, they can

1141
01:01:56,660 --> 01:01:58,630
make really informed decisions.

1142
01:01:58,660 --> 01:02:01,040
And to me, that is absolutely key.

1143
01:02:02,580 --> 01:02:07,150
Catherine: And having, uh, run events
for 13 years, like, I totally agree

1144
01:02:07,150 --> 01:02:11,350
with you that people underestimate
the logistics and what happens

1145
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,080
behind the scenes, uh, to make it.

1146
01:02:14,130 --> 01:02:17,810
All flow very smoothly on the
day and you add emotions to that.

1147
01:02:17,810 --> 01:02:20,660
That can be quite, quite troublesome.

1148
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,920
But something that you were talking
about, you know, with the budgeting, is

1149
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,350
it something that they should also, if
they have a limited budget, they should,

1150
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:31,330
they should let the funeral director know.

1151
01:02:32,105 --> 01:02:33,275
Kelly: Absolutely.

1152
01:02:33,275 --> 01:02:36,705
And I think that's a really important
conversation because there's so, so many

1153
01:02:36,705 --> 01:02:40,655
things we can suggest to go, well, how
about doing this or what about doing that,

1154
01:02:40,685 --> 01:02:42,665
you know, that can minimize those costs.

1155
01:02:42,665 --> 01:02:46,375
Because as I said, some people think
you have to have this professionally

1156
01:02:46,375 --> 01:02:50,475
done or this professionally printed
or, and I'll say, if you've got a

1157
01:02:50,655 --> 01:02:52,445
teen in your family, guess what?

1158
01:02:52,445 --> 01:02:54,225
They can put together a
PowerPoint presentation.

1159
01:02:54,235 --> 01:02:58,875
Now it mightn't be to the, you know,
editing genius of a professional company.

1160
01:02:59,465 --> 01:03:03,915
But, where's your priority, you know,
it might be, and the other day I did

1161
01:03:03,915 --> 01:03:08,715
this for a family, they, I said, they
were on a property, and I said, didn't

1162
01:03:08,795 --> 01:03:09,805
you know your loved one like flower?

1163
01:03:09,805 --> 01:03:12,485
Oh, I wasn't really, I said, I'm
sure you've got some beautiful gum

1164
01:03:12,485 --> 01:03:14,995
leaves and some flowering gums and
everything, why don't we bring those,

1165
01:03:15,265 --> 01:03:20,235
oh, people love that, so, you know,
it's just teasing out that bit of

1166
01:03:20,235 --> 01:03:24,525
information so they don't feel like,
and again this comes back to what people

1167
01:03:24,535 --> 01:03:26,955
think they should do, say, or spend.

1168
01:03:27,425 --> 01:03:30,235
Oh, we should spend, because this
shows how much we love them if we buy

1169
01:03:30,525 --> 01:03:31,845
a thousand dollars worth of flowers.

1170
01:03:32,355 --> 01:03:33,075
No, it does not.

1171
01:03:33,875 --> 01:03:35,735
But for some people
that's very appropriate.

1172
01:03:35,835 --> 01:03:39,165
For some people who always bought flowers,
had flowers in their home, loved flowers.

1173
01:03:39,970 --> 01:03:44,490
A beautiful arrangement of flowers
in the coffin is absolutely perfect.

1174
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,290
For other people, that is not
what that curse is all about.

1175
01:03:48,370 --> 01:03:52,590
It would be sprigs from their garden,
you know, we've had pine cones on

1176
01:03:52,590 --> 01:03:55,630
a coffin with some wool fleece from
their, from their sheep at home.

1177
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,110
You know, it can be anything.

1178
01:03:57,730 --> 01:03:57,920
Yeah.

1179
01:03:59,030 --> 01:04:00,705
So it's I love that.

1180
01:04:00,965 --> 01:04:03,245
Letting people know everything's okay.

1181
01:04:03,275 --> 01:04:05,065
Don't think it's cutting corners.

1182
01:04:05,065 --> 01:04:06,495
It's actually personalizing.

1183
01:04:06,495 --> 01:04:08,015
It's bringing in touches of home.

1184
01:04:08,675 --> 01:04:12,505
And, you know, even having those beautiful
image wrapped personalized coffins now.

1185
01:04:12,565 --> 01:04:13,215
Oh my goodness.

1186
01:04:13,245 --> 01:04:17,525
People absolutely love those
because it can be anything you want.

1187
01:04:17,535 --> 01:04:18,605
It can be jelly beans.

1188
01:04:18,605 --> 01:04:20,865
It can be pictures of their dogs.

1189
01:04:20,895 --> 01:04:25,340
You know, it can be, um, You know, and
I think just having that to go and even

1190
01:04:26,180 --> 01:04:29,900
giving a lightness to a service where
people come and go, Oh, look at that.

1191
01:04:30,350 --> 01:04:32,880
I remember we had a funeral
for a lady who lived on a farm.

1192
01:04:33,050 --> 01:04:37,890
She was an older lady and, you know,
you'd think more, probably more would

1193
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:39,010
choose something more traditional.

1194
01:04:39,290 --> 01:04:42,070
And we had an image wrapped coffin
with a tractor on it because

1195
01:04:42,070 --> 01:04:43,285
she loved driving a tractor.

1196
01:04:43,865 --> 01:04:46,885
And whenever it came in, it was
the talking point of the day.

1197
01:04:47,005 --> 01:04:51,205
And I thought, that alone, you
know, don't spend it on the flowers.

1198
01:04:51,335 --> 01:04:55,815
That was much more fitting
for her, you know, so, yeah.

1199
01:04:56,795 --> 01:05:01,205
Catherine: And it's interesting because
it kind of reminds me about, you know,

1200
01:05:01,215 --> 01:05:05,315
when my sister perhaps got married in
the 80s, and it was still very much

1201
01:05:05,775 --> 01:05:08,855
white wedding, still to be expected.

1202
01:05:09,285 --> 01:05:10,925
Even though she had the.

1203
01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:17,400
the ceremony at home and, but, you know,
nowadays anything goes when it comes to

1204
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,430
a wedding and no one blinks an eyelid.

1205
01:05:19,980 --> 01:05:24,790
So it's like we need to, you know,
have the same mindset when we think of

1206
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:30,810
funerals that really whatever celebrates
that person who we're honoring goes

1207
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:31,350
Kelly: really.

1208
01:05:31,795 --> 01:05:32,915
Oh, absolutely.

1209
01:05:32,915 --> 01:05:35,215
I mean, think about, you know, we've
had them in shoeing sheds and the

1210
01:05:35,225 --> 01:05:40,035
coffins been on bales of, you know,
hay and, you know, in fantastic

1211
01:05:40,045 --> 01:05:41,825
yacht clubs and art galleries.

1212
01:05:41,825 --> 01:05:45,435
We've had it in a restaurant, you
know, it's where we can get permission,

1213
01:05:45,615 --> 01:05:46,755
you know, you can have a gathering.

1214
01:05:46,975 --> 01:05:51,345
And I think one of the other things
I've noticed about, you know, post

1215
01:05:51,345 --> 01:05:56,055
COVID, there was quite a few families
who quite loved that when it was down

1216
01:05:56,055 --> 01:05:58,285
to 10 or 20, quite that intimate feel.

1217
01:05:58,795 --> 01:06:03,040
And what I'm finding now, people are sort
of having Something they might be into,

1218
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,560
maybe it's the committal, maybe it's the,
the little service at the crematorium

1219
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,310
or the gravesite and it's just families,
they've got a little something just for

1220
01:06:09,310 --> 01:06:12,960
them, where they can let go a little bit
if they need to, and then they share that

1221
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,420
larger gathering with everyone else, but
still have maybe a private committal.

1222
01:06:16,690 --> 01:06:20,750
So they're doing that, the best of
both, because you're having that

1223
01:06:20,850 --> 01:06:24,390
bigger group, all that beautiful
support, all the sharing of memories.

1224
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:30,460
Stories and, you know, just the
physical support, the hugging, you

1225
01:06:30,460 --> 01:06:33,760
know, the people saying, I've got
you, you know, I'm here for you.

1226
01:06:34,210 --> 01:06:35,620
You can't replace that.

1227
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:37,930
So having that is really important.

1228
01:06:37,940 --> 01:06:41,280
I think it's more important than ever
as people feel more disconnected,

1229
01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:44,170
but then also having something
just for you and your family.

1230
01:06:44,170 --> 01:06:45,680
It might be the vigil the night before.

1231
01:06:45,730 --> 01:06:48,620
As I said, when we encourage that
come in the night before when it's

1232
01:06:48,620 --> 01:06:52,330
nice and quiet, it's just you guys
sit and play some favorite music.

1233
01:06:52,665 --> 01:06:55,515
Just have a little something for
yourself before that big day tomorrow

1234
01:06:55,735 --> 01:06:57,165
that you share with everyone else.

1235
01:06:57,455 --> 01:07:02,155
Because sometimes those closest don't
get their moments because it's so big.

1236
01:07:02,715 --> 01:07:06,635
So if you get something for yourself,
the thought of having something

1237
01:07:06,635 --> 01:07:08,365
a bit bigger isn't so daunting.

1238
01:07:09,505 --> 01:07:12,315
Catherine: Yes, I totally agree
with that because it can be very

1239
01:07:12,355 --> 01:07:14,145
overwhelming those large occasions.

1240
01:07:14,605 --> 01:07:14,935
Yes.

1241
01:07:15,585 --> 01:07:18,285
For me personally, you
know, in the last 12 months.

1242
01:07:18,810 --> 01:07:24,820
We know, um, of four families who
have had to crowdfund some aspect

1243
01:07:24,830 --> 01:07:26,550
of the funeral for their loved one.

1244
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,990
Is that something that you've seen
as an industry association and,

1245
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,840
and is it something that you're
looking at to address in some way?

1246
01:07:37,410 --> 01:07:37,930
I think

1247
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:41,830
Kelly: we put it this way, we absolutely
have seen it and I think people

1248
01:07:41,830 --> 01:07:44,230
crowdfund for lots of different reasons.

1249
01:07:45,660 --> 01:07:46,620
There is a need for it.

1250
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,100
You know, some people, as you said,
life can change in the blink of an eye.

1251
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:52,120
You're not prepared.

1252
01:07:52,330 --> 01:07:54,260
It's not something you spend
years going, I'll put a little

1253
01:07:54,260 --> 01:07:55,550
bit of money aside for that.

1254
01:07:55,940 --> 01:07:59,600
It can be at the most inopportune
moment financially for your

1255
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,050
family that that comes along.

1256
01:08:01,530 --> 01:08:04,900
And that's why I think, again,
having those conversations,

1257
01:08:04,900 --> 01:08:07,220
because in those situations,
you don't have time to prepare.

1258
01:08:07,220 --> 01:08:08,380
You haven't done the homework.

1259
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:09,700
You don't have time.

1260
01:08:09,700 --> 01:08:11,830
You feel like you've got to
make decisions really quickly.

1261
01:08:12,515 --> 01:08:17,425
And I would still say, even then,
even when it's very sudden, just stop.

1262
01:08:17,875 --> 01:08:21,185
And even if it's you not doing
that, getting that information, get

1263
01:08:21,195 --> 01:08:24,415
someone close to you, not someone
too close, but they can perhaps get

1264
01:08:24,415 --> 01:08:28,225
that information for you so you've
got the costs and the facts and the

1265
01:08:28,235 --> 01:08:29,845
choices in front of you, before you.

1266
01:08:30,375 --> 01:08:33,705
You're locked into something that you
think, Oh, actually, that's beyond me.

1267
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:38,990
It's really important to have those
conversations as a family first, before

1268
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:43,450
you even meet with a funeral director,
to say, let's be realistic and, you

1269
01:08:43,450 --> 01:08:45,040
know, what would our sister want?

1270
01:08:45,090 --> 01:08:46,320
What would our brother want?

1271
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,160
You know, this is the funds
that we've got available.

1272
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:53,640
Let's look around and see what we can
do for that and be really realistic.

1273
01:08:54,060 --> 01:08:56,550
And funeral directors will
absolutely understand.

1274
01:08:56,590 --> 01:08:58,130
In fact, that's much easier.

1275
01:08:58,885 --> 01:09:01,575
Having that information up
front to then go, Oh, great.

1276
01:09:01,635 --> 01:09:01,945
Okay.

1277
01:09:01,945 --> 01:09:03,055
This is what we can do.

1278
01:09:03,085 --> 01:09:05,555
And we can look at it
this way and that way.

1279
01:09:05,845 --> 01:09:09,015
So I think it's really good to have
those conversations and transparency

1280
01:09:09,015 --> 01:09:10,285
around costs is absolutely key.

1281
01:09:10,445 --> 01:09:15,735
I mean, we welcomed the, you know,
the IPART ACCC investigation to the

1282
01:09:15,735 --> 01:09:18,715
funeral industry, because you know,
we want people to be more open.

1283
01:09:18,875 --> 01:09:22,825
We want people to be able to know
exactly what they're Going to get

1284
01:09:22,975 --> 01:09:24,725
with, for those, for those choices.

1285
01:09:24,735 --> 01:09:28,825
So it's really important that people
aren't put under undue financial

1286
01:09:28,825 --> 01:09:32,445
strain on top of everything else
that comes with grief and loss.

1287
01:09:32,735 --> 01:09:34,735
So having those conversations
is really important.

1288
01:09:34,755 --> 01:09:39,495
So we're trying to be, do lots of
media and advocacy around transparency,

1289
01:09:39,535 --> 01:09:41,485
making sure costs are very easily.

1290
01:09:41,545 --> 01:09:45,205
So in Victoria, we have legislation
around having costs readily available.

1291
01:09:45,915 --> 01:09:50,155
If someone comes into your business,
there should be a cost sheet that you

1292
01:09:50,155 --> 01:09:51,705
can come and say, I want your cost sheet.

1293
01:09:51,745 --> 01:09:52,965
I mean, ours is on our website.

1294
01:09:53,025 --> 01:09:55,395
We're very open, you know,
about what our costs are.

1295
01:09:55,405 --> 01:09:59,665
And you'll find a lot of funeral directors
now do have their costs on their website.

1296
01:09:59,665 --> 01:10:03,995
So people can access that at any time
in the privacy of their own home.

1297
01:10:03,995 --> 01:10:06,665
I think some families do
stress when they come together.

1298
01:10:07,035 --> 01:10:09,525
Sometimes they come in together
for the first time at the funeral

1299
01:10:09,555 --> 01:10:13,855
director's home, and they've had a
chance to discuss how much money did

1300
01:10:13,855 --> 01:10:15,095
mum actually have in her account?

1301
01:10:15,770 --> 01:10:19,950
You know, and that, those sort of issues
can be fraught with danger as well.

1302
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:24,020
So having those conversations
before you make any decisions.

1303
01:10:24,425 --> 01:10:27,965
That's what I'd encourage people
to do because yes, there are

1304
01:10:28,005 --> 01:10:30,625
things like crowdfunding and things
like that available, which, you

1305
01:10:30,625 --> 01:10:32,055
know, a lot of people utilize.

1306
01:10:32,075 --> 01:10:37,755
And again, it's used for lots of different
life events that we're just not ready for.

1307
01:10:39,705 --> 01:10:43,845
Catherine: That's really good advice
about having those conversations.

1308
01:10:44,825 --> 01:10:48,355
Before you actually go and see
the funeral director, because as

1309
01:10:48,355 --> 01:10:52,485
you said, it may be the first time
they've seen each other in a long

1310
01:10:52,485 --> 01:10:54,955
time and that could be really awkward.

1311
01:10:55,495 --> 01:10:59,845
So, yep, taking that time out and
maybe having a coffee or lunch

1312
01:10:59,865 --> 01:11:01,625
beforehand and having a chat.

1313
01:11:01,945 --> 01:11:04,535
about those practicalities
is really good advice.

1314
01:11:04,705 --> 01:11:06,355
So thanks for that, Kelly.

1315
01:11:07,025 --> 01:11:11,785
Now, coming back to, you know, TJ
Scott and son funeral directors,

1316
01:11:11,845 --> 01:11:15,895
is there another generation that
with you and Daniel that might, you

1317
01:11:15,895 --> 01:11:18,695
know, join the, the family business?

1318
01:11:19,665 --> 01:11:23,015
Kelly: Oh, there's a few kids between us,
but I think we're going to take dad's.

1319
01:11:23,515 --> 01:11:29,625
Attitude and not even mention it and
just see where that, that may lie,

1320
01:11:30,455 --> 01:11:34,385
um, but certainly no pressure, you
know, hopefully Dan and I don't,

1321
01:11:34,385 --> 01:11:35,455
I'd love to still be working.

1322
01:11:35,485 --> 01:11:36,725
My dad isn't 75.

1323
01:11:36,795 --> 01:11:39,085
I mean, my grandparents were still
answering the phone in their eighties.

1324
01:11:39,525 --> 01:11:40,885
It's just one of those things to me.

1325
01:11:40,885 --> 01:11:41,785
It is a vocation.

1326
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:42,740
I can't help it.

1327
01:11:42,740 --> 01:11:43,910
I can't imagine not working.

1328
01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:46,800
So it's hopefully got
a few years left in me.

1329
01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:50,840
And I'd love to see, you know, it'd be
great to see one of the kids, even one

1330
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,160
of them to go show an interest, but
just to be understanding of what they

1331
01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:57,610
do, what we do and what's involved.

1332
01:11:57,940 --> 01:12:00,720
But I certainly wouldn't be
saying, Oh, who's coming in?

1333
01:12:00,730 --> 01:12:01,300
When are you coming in?

1334
01:12:01,860 --> 01:12:04,390
I would certainly say, have
your own life experience.

1335
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,300
First, I mean, my son's doing
chiropractic, so there's

1336
01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:08,650
absolutely no chance there.

1337
01:12:08,660 --> 01:12:11,660
He's, uh, very happy to be in health care.

1338
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,160
My daughter's studying psychology,
so you never know, but we'll wait and

1339
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,050
see, but yeah, I mean, it'd be lovely.

1340
01:12:18,060 --> 01:12:21,270
A lot of people ask us because they like
to know that that guarantee is there

1341
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:25,620
that we'll continue on, but yeah, who
knows what's ahead and we certainly,

1342
01:12:25,670 --> 01:12:29,170
I certainly wouldn't want any of them
to feel like they were pressured to

1343
01:12:29,170 --> 01:12:32,280
because we certainly weren't and I
feel like that's really important

1344
01:12:32,290 --> 01:12:33,750
because it's got to be a choice.

1345
01:12:34,145 --> 01:12:37,995
You know, not something that's
just handed on, just there it is.

1346
01:12:37,995 --> 01:12:40,865
I think you've really got to want it
and be in it for the right reasons.

1347
01:12:42,345 --> 01:12:44,615
Catherine: And tell me, have
you done anything to prepare

1348
01:12:44,655 --> 01:12:45,915
for your own death, Kelly?

1349
01:12:46,265 --> 01:12:47,045
Kelly: Oh, of course.

1350
01:12:47,045 --> 01:12:48,355
Funeral directors, of course, they do.

1351
01:12:49,655 --> 01:12:49,985
I have.

1352
01:12:50,275 --> 01:12:52,515
I always make notes and
I change it periodically.

1353
01:12:52,515 --> 01:12:55,535
You know, I'll go to a new venue
and go, Oh, that's a lovely venue.

1354
01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:57,955
I mean, you know, it's, it's funny.

1355
01:12:57,955 --> 01:12:59,555
And I come from a Catholic background.

1356
01:12:59,555 --> 01:12:59,925
And so.

1357
01:13:00,290 --> 01:13:02,930
Probably, you know, years ago,
it definitely would have been

1358
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:04,000
something quite different.

1359
01:13:04,350 --> 01:13:09,010
And, you know, as, as time goes
on, uh, it would have to involve.

1360
01:13:09,650 --> 01:13:11,710
Food and wine and
definitely me being there.

1361
01:13:11,740 --> 01:13:12,750
I wouldn't want to miss out.

1362
01:13:13,110 --> 01:13:17,520
So, so my family knows I will
be there for the last time.

1363
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:21,910
But yeah, I love the idea of having,
you know, something, you know, even

1364
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:25,010
if it was tomorrow, you know, a
very pragmatic event that we have

1365
01:13:25,010 --> 01:13:26,380
those conversations with our kids.

1366
01:13:26,740 --> 01:13:28,820
And there's certain things I've
said, this is what I'd like.

1367
01:13:29,210 --> 01:13:31,730
And there's something that I don't
care, you decide, because I want

1368
01:13:31,730 --> 01:13:32,830
them to be a part of that too.

1369
01:13:32,830 --> 01:13:36,840
I don't want to write, this is exactly
how it's going to be, because I understand

1370
01:13:37,150 --> 01:13:38,500
there'll be things that they all need.

1371
01:13:38,990 --> 01:13:41,960
And I'm very happy for them
to make those decisions.

1372
01:13:41,970 --> 01:13:45,600
So, as for the plays, as long as
I know there's good food and good

1373
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,120
wine, and there's good music,
and there's a little mixture of

1374
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,310
everything, I'll be quite happy.

1375
01:13:51,330 --> 01:13:52,800
Catherine: Oh, that sounds fantastic.

1376
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,980
And is there anything else that you'd
like to share, or any other advice

1377
01:13:56,980 --> 01:13:58,610
or encouragement you'd like to share?

1378
01:14:00,670 --> 01:14:00,950
Look,

1379
01:14:01,420 --> 01:14:04,750
Kelly: I always say, as I said, I've
been doing this 34 years now, coming

1380
01:14:04,750 --> 01:14:09,310
up in May, and I think the only
thing, I would never say to anyone

1381
01:14:09,310 --> 01:14:14,930
what to do or what not to do, my only
suggestion or advice is Take your time.

1382
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:16,210
Do not feel rushed.

1383
01:14:16,210 --> 01:14:20,790
There's absolutely no need to feel rushed,
whether it's before or at the time.

1384
01:14:21,070 --> 01:14:23,770
You know, sometimes the first question
is, ring your funeral director.

1385
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:25,070
When's the funeral director coming?

1386
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:27,890
And usually we, we can get on
the phone to the family and say,

1387
01:14:27,970 --> 01:14:29,450
are you actually ready for us?

1388
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:32,150
Would you like to wait until
some family members arrive

1389
01:14:32,150 --> 01:14:33,690
at the nursing home or home?

1390
01:14:34,340 --> 01:14:37,910
Just because it's happened doesn't
mean we have to come straight away.

1391
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:40,340
And it's like, you'd almost
hear that sigh of relief.

1392
01:14:40,350 --> 01:14:44,195
Um, you But someone else has been, you
know, let's go, you know, you've got

1393
01:14:44,195 --> 01:14:47,605
to make all those decisions because
that's what they think should be done.

1394
01:14:47,695 --> 01:14:53,185
So I would always just err on the
side of take your time, then take

1395
01:14:53,185 --> 01:14:54,405
your time to have the service.

1396
01:14:54,415 --> 01:14:55,855
It's nothing now to waste.

1397
01:14:56,310 --> 01:15:01,110
A week or two weeks for families to
gather from far and wide, even with

1398
01:15:01,180 --> 01:15:04,830
the, you know, we have live streaming
on so many funerals now, but for those

1399
01:15:04,870 --> 01:15:07,670
key people that have to be there,
allow time for them to get there.

1400
01:15:07,860 --> 01:15:11,370
You don't want them to arrive on the
morning of the funeral and be exhausted.

1401
01:15:11,610 --> 01:15:16,130
It's really important that they're
present emotionally as well as physically.

1402
01:15:16,540 --> 01:15:20,790
And I think just taking your time
because, you know, when I see families

1403
01:15:20,790 --> 01:15:22,670
go, Oh, we need to have it by the stage.

1404
01:15:23,150 --> 01:15:26,990
You can see the pressure that's on them
to, because they want all the photos put

1405
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:30,900
together and they want neulogies to be
done and, you know, I would err on the

1406
01:15:30,900 --> 01:15:36,220
side of just giving yourself lots of time,
lots of space to make those decisions.

1407
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,200
You know, talk to your funeral
director about the options first.

1408
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,700
You know, when we're meeting
with the family, say, let's

1409
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:42,840
meet tomorrow, not today.

1410
01:15:42,930 --> 01:15:44,040
It's just happened.

1411
01:15:44,350 --> 01:15:46,500
You know, whereas years ago, you'd
have people coming straight from

1412
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:48,580
the nursing home to your door
ready to arrange the funeral.

1413
01:15:48,810 --> 01:15:51,850
And again, just as we said, they
haven't had a chance to talk about what

1414
01:15:51,850 --> 01:15:53,470
they all need from this experience.

1415
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:55,290
So, take your time.

1416
01:15:55,330 --> 01:15:57,540
That's probably, I think,
the most important thing.

1417
01:15:57,810 --> 01:15:59,380
And ask for ideas.

1418
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:01,300
Be honest about your situation.

1419
01:16:01,310 --> 01:16:04,600
You might say, actually, we've got
a brother we're estranged from or

1420
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,870
an aunt that's gonna cause trouble.

1421
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:08,250
Okay, what does that mean?

1422
01:16:08,260 --> 01:16:09,680
How can we support that?

1423
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,840
Because we don't want you to stop
doing what you need to do because

1424
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:16,605
of these There's challenges because
they're in every single family.

1425
01:16:16,605 --> 01:16:17,895
I have not met one.

1426
01:16:18,515 --> 01:16:21,855
that hasn't had something going on
underneath the surface, you know,

1427
01:16:21,855 --> 01:16:23,135
even if they hide it really well.

1428
01:16:23,595 --> 01:16:28,625
But I think, be honest, and your
funerary is there to support you as

1429
01:16:28,625 --> 01:16:30,575
much as anything, to help you get there.

1430
01:16:30,585 --> 01:16:34,515
So, you know, you could come and
say, Oh, we want the funeral here.

1431
01:16:34,725 --> 01:16:36,835
You might say, Oh, have you
thought of any other options?

1432
01:16:36,845 --> 01:16:38,175
You know, think about that.

1433
01:16:38,185 --> 01:16:40,755
Don't think, Oh, we have to do
exactly the same as was done for our

1434
01:16:40,885 --> 01:16:43,415
grandparents or Generations before.

1435
01:16:43,655 --> 01:16:46,165
How can we make it really unique for them?

1436
01:16:46,185 --> 01:16:50,295
And it's sometimes it's those really
intangible, small little things.

1437
01:16:50,645 --> 01:16:53,935
Bits and pieces that make it
absolutely beautiful that people come

1438
01:16:53,935 --> 01:16:58,675
away uplifted from a funeral, even
in the most tragic circumstances.

1439
01:16:59,045 --> 01:17:00,455
It can be uplifting.

1440
01:17:00,455 --> 01:17:06,845
It can re, you know, reinforce
how important relationships are.

1441
01:17:06,865 --> 01:17:09,805
And I think when you see people come
away from a funeral like that, you think,

1442
01:17:09,845 --> 01:17:12,315
Oh, I've done something good today.

1443
01:17:12,575 --> 01:17:13,555
You know, I've helped.

1444
01:17:13,805 --> 01:17:14,705
Put that together.

1445
01:17:14,725 --> 01:17:18,385
So people have come away from there
going, I knew a little bit about

1446
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:19,935
Bill when I did before I came in.

1447
01:17:20,395 --> 01:17:21,215
And I love that.

1448
01:17:22,835 --> 01:17:23,465
Catherine: It is good.

1449
01:17:23,485 --> 01:17:28,785
I like, we actually went to a
memorial on, on the weekend and, and

1450
01:17:28,905 --> 01:17:34,405
I always find that I come away with
finding a richer story from someone

1451
01:17:34,475 --> 01:17:36,215
about the person that has passed.

1452
01:17:36,315 --> 01:17:38,765
So yeah, it is really lovely.

1453
01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:42,150
Kelly: Yeah, it's, it's
about making it special.

1454
01:17:42,150 --> 01:17:47,050
And yeah, they might look, look the same
a little bit, but really, as I said,

1455
01:17:47,070 --> 01:17:49,670
every family teaches us something new and.

1456
01:17:50,235 --> 01:17:53,765
You know, from that, you can create
something really beautiful and it is in

1457
01:17:53,765 --> 01:17:58,185
all those little touch points, I think,
and making sure everyone, those key people

1458
01:17:58,185 --> 01:18:02,645
around, the person that's died, those
key people, all contribute in some way.

1459
01:18:02,685 --> 01:18:06,995
And sometimes, you know, the art
of what we do is a lot of mediation

1460
01:18:06,995 --> 01:18:09,245
and, and teasing out of information.

1461
01:18:09,255 --> 01:18:13,235
When you've got a big group of, you know,
family coming to arrange a funeral, try

1462
01:18:13,235 --> 01:18:16,415
to engage that quiet one over there in
the corner and say, What do you think?

1463
01:18:16,415 --> 01:18:18,485
Have you thought of any,
what about music for you?

1464
01:18:18,485 --> 01:18:21,355
Have you thought of any songs
trying to, you know, bring

1465
01:18:21,355 --> 01:18:22,585
them into the conversation?

1466
01:18:22,585 --> 01:18:24,295
Because there's always the loudest voice.

1467
01:18:24,295 --> 01:18:27,440
There's always someone that's the
dominant one, and often they Yeah, sure.

1468
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:27,880
You see that.

1469
01:18:28,215 --> 01:18:28,605
Yeah.

1470
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:31,215
And sometimes they have to be, you
know, because they're, they're the

1471
01:18:31,215 --> 01:18:34,715
family organizer and the family wouldn't
be the same without those people.

1472
01:18:35,125 --> 01:18:38,035
But, you know, sometimes those
quiet voices also need to be

1473
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:39,745
heard to make sure that everyone.

1474
01:18:40,275 --> 01:18:43,215
Plays a part in it because I think
that's really really important.

1475
01:18:45,155 --> 01:18:48,585
Catherine: Well, look, I think that
that's a wonderful note to to leave

1476
01:18:48,585 --> 01:18:53,475
on Kelly I can't thank you enough
for Being our guest today and thank

1477
01:18:53,475 --> 01:18:55,265
you so much for speaking with us.

1478
01:18:55,545 --> 01:18:56,545
Kelly: Oh, thanks Catherine.

1479
01:18:56,545 --> 01:18:59,635
Thanks for what you're doing I think
these conversations are amazing.

1480
01:18:59,945 --> 01:19:02,865
And I think what you do is
critical info is just incredible.

1481
01:19:02,875 --> 01:19:03,505
So well done.

1482
01:19:04,325 --> 01:19:04,675
Catherine: Thank you

1483
01:19:04,675 --> 01:19:04,865
Kelly: so

1484
01:19:04,865 --> 01:19:05,335
Catherine: much

1485
01:19:07,825 --> 01:19:11,235
We hope you enjoyed today's
episode of Don't Be Caught Dead,

1486
01:19:11,555 --> 01:19:13,125
brought to you by Critical Info.

1487
01:19:14,075 --> 01:19:18,335
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1488
01:19:18,335 --> 01:19:20,265
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1489
01:19:20,435 --> 01:19:22,835
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1490
01:19:22,975 --> 01:19:25,715
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1491
01:19:25,935 --> 01:19:30,110
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1492
01:19:30,110 --> 01:19:31,820
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1493
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:33,470
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1494
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:34,580
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1495
01:19:34,580 --> 01:19:38,540
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1496
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